Lakeside School's AI Journey and Technology Leadership Lessons, with Jamie Britto
This episode features Jamie Britto from Lakeside School, discussing their proactive adoption of AI, including student-led initiatives and policy development. The conversation also explores the evolving landscape of cybersecurity and leadership strategies in independent school technology.
- Lakeside School
- Leadership and Technology at Independent Schools: A Handbook for School Leaders in Administration, Technology, and Academics, book by Albert Throckmorton, Jamie Britto, Tim Fish
- Partnerships in Technology and Learning, episode of Talking Technology with ATLIS featuring Tim Fish
- Source Code, Bill Gates memoir
- Helping Independent School Educators Use AI to Teach, episode of Talking Technology with ATLIS featuring Eric Hudson
Transcript
Peter Frank:
Alex, welcome to Talking Technology with ATLIS,
Peter Frank:
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
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technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Peter Frank:
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
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special guests from the Independent School community,
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and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics
Peter Frank:
there is no need to adjust your internet. This is a talking
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technology with Atlas takeover. My name is Peter Frank. I am the
Peter Frank:
Senior Director of certification and operations at ATLIS. And I
Peter Frank:
am Bill
Bill Stites:
Stites, the Director of Technology at
Bill Stites:
Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New Jersey, and I'm
Bill Stites:
scared for my life that Peter is in charge,
Hiram Cuevas:
and I'm Hiram Cuevas, Director of Information
Hiram Cuevas:
Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher school in
Hiram Cuevas:
Richmond, Virginia. And I am not fearful at all.
Unknown:
You should be.
Peter Frank:
Thank you, Hiram. Saying, Hiram has all the
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confidence. Kristina has all the confidence. We're doing
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something different today from the normal thing. Kristina,
Peter Frank:
sorry she can't be here. She'll definitely be back for our avid
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listeners, but we're going to try something new, and that's
Peter Frank:
fine. I've been behind the scenes, and now I get to flip
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the mic on for once, so we're going to have a good time here.
Peter Frank:
We've got a fantastic guest. We're looking forward to that,
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and this all made me think about people relinquishing control. I
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think naturally, as humans, we have drivers and we have
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passengers where we're more comfortable. So I'm curious
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Hiram and Bill, where you both fall. I know that I was born a
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natural I'm more comfortable driving, but I was very
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fortunate when I was in my 20s, I had a couple mentors. I
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learned from them the value of being comfortable as the
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passenger, and that has served me well throughout my life. But
Peter Frank:
I'm curious about you guys, are you more comfortable driving or
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more comfortable being the passenger, either figuratively
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or literally? Well,
Hiram Cuevas:
I'll tell you, as a New York driver, I am always
Hiram Cuevas:
likely to be the driver rather than the passenger, because I
Hiram Cuevas:
just very little tolerance for poor driving. But
Hiram Cuevas:
professionally, I would say it's an evolution. You know, you kind
Hiram Cuevas:
of would like to be in charge, but sometimes you've got to
Hiram Cuevas:
wait. You've got to prove yourself, and it's good to often
Hiram Cuevas:
be the passenger, and then that grows. It's leading from behind.
Hiram Cuevas:
And then eventually you can start doing some of that driving
Hiram Cuevas:
on your own. But there's also nothing better than bringing
Hiram Cuevas:
along new folks on the team that are passengers. And then all of
Hiram Cuevas:
a sudden you can put it on cruise control, and all of a
Hiram Cuevas:
sudden you realize that they are actually driving the ship and
Hiram Cuevas:
doing a great job.
Bill Stites:
I'm king of the road trip. Hiram knows this
Bill Stites:
quite well. Is every summer we take our drive down to Florida
Bill Stites:
to visit the mouse. We'll stop and see Hiram and I do that
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drive with my family, but I'm the only one that's driving
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because a I do enjoy the drive. I always like to keep moving. So
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I'll get off the road and try different things. If the path
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that was laid out isn't the path that's working or it's getting
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backed up, I'm willing to take detours. My wife is always the
Bill Stites:
good navigator on the side. She's there helping out and
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trying to find different ways. And I think it's a great analogy
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for the work that we do in that I think for any of us that are
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in these types of positions, we've probably gotten here
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because there's been that desire to drive, but again, having the
Bill Stites:
good navigator, having the person who can be by your side
Bill Stites:
to help direct you along the way, is always helpful. And when
Bill Stites:
you get tired, you need to be willing to pull over and let
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somebody else drive and know and trust in them that they can get
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you where you need to be. And I think while I may not do that a
Bill Stites:
lot in my personal life, when on the road, I think we all need to
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put ourselves in positions where we can sit in that passenger
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seat and let somebody else drive, or particularly when we
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are engaged in new ideas or new ventures or in something that is
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going to require The work of a larger group, understanding
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where you are in that role and that you know you're going to
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get your time behind the wheel, but a lot of times, you're going
Bill Stites:
to have to be in the van with everyone else and listening to
Bill Stites:
the tunes and enjoying the ride as you go when you're not the
Bill Stites:
one behind the wheel. So
Peter Frank:
we have someone who's been driving for quite a
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while in this space. We are honored to have Jamie Britto
Peter Frank:
from Lakeside school here. Jamie, welcome to the podcast.
Peter Frank:
First of all, thanks for being here. Glad to be here. We
Peter Frank:
appreciate it. And one thing that we'd like to do, we assume
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that you don't have a bachelor's, master's or
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doctorate in independent school technology leader, because most
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people don't, because that doesn't exist, usually. So we
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love to hear people's stories just briefly, about how you went
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from whatever you were doing before to you found yourself as
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a technology leader at independent schools. What's your
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story? Yeah,
Jamie Britto:
and to look at the metaphor of dr. And traveling
Jamie Britto:
that kind of connects, I think, with my origin story. Way back
Jamie Britto:
in the day, I thought I was going to be a French teacher,
Jamie Britto:
and my first job was teaching English in France. So the travel
Jamie Britto:
metaphor is, I think figuring out how to get from point A to B
Jamie Britto:
in Europe largely doesn't involve a car. So I like that
Jamie Britto:
kind of navigation of the experience where you don't have
Jamie Britto:
quite the same control of it's your car, and you go when you
Jamie Britto:
want to go and you stop when you want to stop. But how do you
Jamie Britto:
navigate the terrain and the options? Over my career, I've
Jamie Britto:
taken a lot of trips internationally with students
Jamie Britto:
from independent schools, and navigating those groups through
Jamie Britto:
different cultures and transit schedules and missed flights and
Jamie Britto:
those types of things has been its own adventure too. But I
Jamie Britto:
think part of that control issue was so I thought I was going to
Jamie Britto:
be a great French teacher. I taught in France for a year. I
Jamie Britto:
collected all kinds of real Yeah, has, you know, it was
Jamie Britto:
described at the time. I got back to Northern Virginia fair
Jamie Britto:
Bucks County, and I applied for a French job, and the woman who
Jamie Britto:
interviewed me was like, You have great skills. Happy to have
Jamie Britto:
you get this job. But let me tell you, our projection is that
Jamie Britto:
we have far more French teachers than we have need for French
Jamie Britto:
teachers. So I recommend you not pursue this career and in the
Jamie Britto:
way that things unfold and you figure something else out. They
Jamie Britto:
did, however, have a high need for English as a second language
Jamie Britto:
teachers, which I had just kind of done in France, and so I
Jamie Britto:
began teaching ESL, you know, and has happens with new
Jamie Britto:
teachers. Sometimes the department gave me the sections
Jamie Britto:
that they didn't want to teach, which was largely, there was a
Jamie Britto:
class of kids who arrived, had just arrived in the country, and
Jamie Britto:
they spent two hours a day with me, you know, one point, 13
Jamie Britto:
different languages, a range of different schooling backgrounds,
Jamie Britto:
and so again, navigating that and responding to the classroom,
Jamie Britto:
I think that has helped me be adaptive and kind of responsive
Jamie Britto:
to the environment I'm in. The other thing that the teachers in
Jamie Britto:
the teachers in the department didn't want to do is deal with
Jamie Britto:
technology. So when they got a computer, they gave it to me and
Jamie Britto:
said, like, figure this out. And I watched some students who, you
Jamie Britto:
know, I had fairly small classes, but I watched some
Jamie Britto:
students who were reluctant to talk to me or to the group, kind
Jamie Britto:
of open up when they were doing some verbal processing. I was
Jamie Britto:
writing some hyper card programs to use in my class, and I
Jamie Britto:
watched some kids do better in that environment than with me or
Jamie Britto:
with their classmates. And so I kind of saw that happen, and
Jamie Britto:
that was a big moment. And then I kind of saw that so I was in
Jamie Britto:
the beginning of that part and worked for Fairfax in the state
Jamie Britto:
of Virginia, a bit on technology before a friend of mine had
Jamie Britto:
moved to independent schools, Tim fish actually worked with me
Jamie Britto:
in Fairfax County. We shared an office briefly, and he moved to
Jamie Britto:
McDonough, and he was like, Hey, you have a young family. You're
Jamie Britto:
in this situation. You should check this out. You should look
Jamie Britto:
at independent schools. And then I moved over to Cape Fear
Jamie Britto:
Academy in Wilmington, North Carolina as the tech director,
Jamie Britto:
and that's kind of the story,
Peter Frank:
nice. And there you go. And we've had Tim on this
Peter Frank:
podcast before, so the small, independent school technology
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world here, right? Bill and Hiram that story, we've heard
Peter Frank:
lots of people's origin stories that all sounds pretty familiar,
Peter Frank:
I'm sure, to you guys. No,
Bill Stites:
without a doubt, it's rarely the person in this
Bill Stites:
position that went into independent schools thinking
Bill Stites:
that this is what they were going to do, particularly in the
Bill Stites:
age group for which we're talking here in particular. I
Bill Stites:
think now you may see that a little bit more, but definitely
Bill Stites:
in the early to mid 90s was definitely not one of those
Bill Stites:
things.
Hiram Cuevas:
And actually, Jamie and Tim, you guys did a
Hiram Cuevas:
workshop in an AIS workshop after you published your book.
Hiram Cuevas:
It was really the foundation for my career launching, because
Hiram Cuevas:
your work actually predates my work here at St Christopher, so
Hiram Cuevas:
I thank you for that, that first building block. Yeah,
Jamie Britto:
that was a good time. It was a good
Jamie Britto:
collaboration and figuring it all out. And again, you know, I
Jamie Britto:
think part of that workshop you're remembering Hiram was
Jamie Britto:
based around 12 questions. So again, posing questions rather
Jamie Britto:
than providing answers, and seeing this community respond
Jamie Britto:
based on where they're coming from and the different resources
Jamie Britto:
and sizes of their schools. So I've enjoyed being part of all
Jamie Britto:
of that. You've taken me down this car
Bill Stites:
metaphor, Peter. So I've got all this stuff in my
Bill Stites:
head, and it's interesting only in that both Hiram and Jamie are
Bill Stites:
two people that when MKA was in the process of looking at
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different information systems, when we were thinking about
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making a pivot from where we were to where we are now, both
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Hiram and Jamie were two of the people in two of the schools
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that I actually went and did a site visit with to kind of see
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what was going on, to see their schools, not only to get a
Bill Stites:
handle of what they're doing at the schools, but to understand
Bill Stites:
how they were using their different information systems.
Bill Stites:
If you want to talk about who's driving the car, who's in the
Bill Stites:
passenger seat, you know it's. Like, who's driving me to the
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different dealerships, so I can look at the different cars and
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the different models and the ways in which they're doing
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things. And I think when it comes to leadership and things
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that each of us have done in this area, I think opening
Bill Stites:
yourself up to have other people come in and see what you're
Bill Stites:
doing and share directly with them is some of those things,
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Jamie, the book that you wrote, and Hiram, thanking you for
Bill Stites:
that. I thank you and Hiram as well for opening yourselves up.
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Because I think without doing that, we as other school
Bill Stites:
members, as other tech directors, we don't have the
Bill Stites:
opportunity to learn and grow in the ways in which we might if we
Bill Stites:
were never outside of our
Peter Frank:
own building, certainly. I mean, one thing, as
Peter Frank:
someone who's come from outside this community, one of the
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quickest observations I think I made watching y'all work
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together is how much sharing and how much people contribute for
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the common good and to keep moving things forward. That's
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definitely a factor that I see in this community. It's part of
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what makes the Atlas community and the community at large, so
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valuable and so special. I definitely see that, Jamie, you
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mentioned throwing someone at technology and saying, figure it
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out. And I understand that you've got some people that have
Peter Frank:
been at your schools and that you've worked with some pretty
Peter Frank:
high profile people that you might have some insight about.
Peter Frank:
Can you talk a little bit about
Jamie Britto:
that? Yeah, so I'm currently at Lakeside school,
Jamie Britto:
and Lakeside was fortuitous in terms of all those things coming
Jamie Britto:
together, that the parents association provided a computer
Jamie Britto:
to the school, and Paul Allen and Bill Gates happened to have
Jamie Britto:
been students at the school when they did that, and they
Jamie Britto:
encouraged them to explore the computer. And so Bill has
Jamie Britto:
recently released his first memoir. It's called source code,
Jamie Britto:
and is speaking a lot about his time at Lakeside. I was here in
Jamie Britto:
Seattle, I was at a different school, and I was here for the
Jamie Britto:
NAIS conference, and I did the site visit to Lakeside, and they
Jamie Britto:
have a little I call it the shrine, you know, where, like,
Jamie Britto:
the computer that they used is in case, behind glass, and there
Jamie Britto:
are photos of them and some statements, but one of the
Jamie Britto:
things that was the prevailing vibe is the adults got out of
Jamie Britto:
the way, and that took some trust, and that was in the 70s,
Jamie Britto:
and that's obviously a different environment for independent
Jamie Britto:
schools and whatnot, but the taking that risk and providing
Jamie Britto:
the most recent, up to date tools to kids, and trusting them
Jamie Britto:
to figure it out alongside us or in front of us is something that
Jamie Britto:
I've you know, as well as being part of the community and
Jamie Britto:
learning from others like Bill and Hiram, also learning from
Jamie Britto:
kids very early on, my first job, Cape Fear Academy, I you
Jamie Britto:
know, had hired a student or a student came to find Me, and was
Jamie Britto:
helping me, like, move furniture around, and listening to him
Jamie Britto:
talk about technology was as good as a graduate course. And
Jamie Britto:
so I think that schools and independent schools are in a
Jamie Britto:
better position, perhaps, than some public schools, to take
Jamie Britto:
those chances and trust kids when it necessitates it or when
Jamie Britto:
it's possible. And that was transformative for the school,
Jamie Britto:
for the country, for the tech industry, and so I think we
Jamie Britto:
honor and remember that, and are willing to lean into the messy
Jamie Britto:
parts and the uncertain parts and not having control all the
Jamie Britto:
time.
Hiram Cuevas:
So Jamie, do you think that was the first
Hiram Cuevas:
iteration of a disruptive moment in quote, unquote, Ed Tech.
Jamie Britto:
It's interesting. Yeah, I don't know exactly all
Jamie Britto:
that came before, but I watched this Netflix documentary a few
Jamie Britto:
years ago called the brain of Bill Gates. And the couple of
Jamie Britto:
the episodes go into detail as to what Paul Allen and Bill
Jamie Britto:
Gates were doing with the computer. They were scheduling
Jamie Britto:
the classes. They were figuring that out, and it was all, you
Jamie Britto:
know, on a line. They had ran a telephone line from Lake sides
Jamie Britto:
campus to the University of Washington, because it was
Jamie Britto:
centralized computing. You know, it was punch cards that they
Jamie Britto:
were using. But they figured out a billing system for the
Jamie Britto:
Washington State utility company and were processing bills for
Jamie Britto:
the state utility when they were in high school on this computer.
Jamie Britto:
And so that kind of blows my mind. You know, in all of those
Jamie Britto:
ways that they achieved such competency and understanding of
Jamie Britto:
the technology that one, they were helping with the scheduling
Jamie Britto:
of the school, but two, also branching out and doing these
Jamie Britto:
projects. So I think so. And I think that you know the stories
Jamie Britto:
of Paul Allen going to Harvard and talking to Bill about the
Jamie Britto:
computer being released, and you know that they needed to go and
Jamie Britto:
write the code like that. It encouraged them, I think, to
Jamie Britto:
take those chances, big chances like drop out of Harvard and
Jamie Britto:
start coding, and so I think that's disruptive. It certainly
Jamie Britto:
was an early one and a big one, and particularly for schools to
Jamie Britto:
do that. I've been in schools where to the driver analogy,
Jamie Britto:
they would prefer to be in control. Much of the time you
Jamie Britto:
know that the chance of someone throwing something wrong or
Jamie Britto:
whatever, you know, like, how much. Free time do we give
Jamie Britto:
students? How much exploration time do we give students? So I
Jamie Britto:
think that was part of that different time and the different
Jamie Britto:
culture that was helpful.
Bill Stites:
Jamie, what does student involvement at Lakeside
Bill Stites:
look like now, if they gave that to them at those early stages,
Bill Stites:
now that you're there, what does that look like?
Jamie Britto:
One of the things that I've taken with me at each
Jamie Britto:
of the independent schools I've worked at, including that story
Jamie Britto:
of the student who came in to help me move furniture. You
Jamie Britto:
know, my first year is to hire students to help us with the
Jamie Britto:
summer work, and it gives us a chance to connect. Gives us a
Jamie Britto:
chance to help with some of the repetitive work that helps, I
Jamie Britto:
think, independent school students, to get a an hourly job
Jamie Britto:
that they show up and work at. And 80% of it is kind of the
Jamie Britto:
grudge work of unpacking boxes or putting stickers on things
Jamie Britto:
or, you know, hitting a certain sequence on key tabs and
Jamie Britto:
cleaning projectors in classrooms and all of that. But
Jamie Britto:
it facilitates, over time, relationships and encouraging
Jamie Britto:
kids in technology. And so, you know, we've had a number of kids
Jamie Britto:
come through that summer program. And right now, where
Jamie Britto:
that's really exciting and manifesting itself is that a
Jamie Britto:
group of students, the core who had done that summer work were
Jamie Britto:
really interested last summer in AI, and they had been working in
Jamie Britto:
kind of the 20% time, like 80% you're supposed to be on packing
Jamie Britto:
boxes, and 20% we try to give you something a little more
Jamie Britto:
interesting. In that 20% time, they started to build a computer
Jamie Britto:
to host local models on, and they really kind of caught fire.
Jamie Britto:
They collaborated with members of my team who had interest in
Jamie Britto:
background and how to set up those types of computers. And by
Jamie Britto:
August, we were four weeks into the project, we were ready to
Jamie Britto:
share that with the administrative team, and their
Jamie Britto:
pitch was to host what they call the Andromeda server on campus
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and provide access to the local models and all of the different
Jamie Britto:
models that they could possibly explore and load, as well as
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some APIs into the paid versions, like Chat, GPT and
Jamie Britto:
others. So it's kind of like a buffet of AI that you can go to
Jamie Britto:
and to go through the process, not just of the technical piece.
Jamie Britto:
I always like the phrase people process and technology. You
Jamie Britto:
know, they figured out the technology pretty readily, but
Jamie Britto:
then to figure out what was the process to be able to make that
Jamie Britto:
sustainably available to other students, and how did they
Jamie Britto:
navigate leadership and different questions and faculty
Jamie Britto:
and all of that was great. And so to see those kids, they're
Jamie Britto:
called the Andromeda captains. Now there's a club. Clubs are a
Jamie Britto:
big part here. Two hours a week are given to clubs. They've
Jamie Britto:
created a club where they have like 10 regular members come but
Jamie Britto:
another 1530 come in, and they are building models and talking
Jamie Britto:
about how they can be used in
Hiram Cuevas:
classes. Jamie talk to us about those models.
Hiram Cuevas:
What exactly are they developing and creating so that folks have
Hiram Cuevas:
access to.
Jamie Britto:
Yeah, so I think they began with the open source
Jamie Britto:
model, so a lot of the meta llama stuff and working on, how
Jamie Britto:
would they train those models for different things? But
Jamie Britto:
they've expanded into just about everything. You know, we were
Jamie Britto:
looking at this the other day, and I would say they have 20
Jamie Britto:
different models available, which includes some of the API
Jamie Britto:
connected models. And so in this instance, students are given an
Jamie Britto:
account to the server, and they've also designed a way
Jamie Britto:
where it tracks all of the conversations they've had. So
Jamie Britto:
you know, if there's a question around the use, there's a log
Jamie Britto:
file that shows exactly kind of what transpired on that server.
Jamie Britto:
So,
Peter Frank:
Jamie, it's fascinating. You were talking
Peter Frank:
about in the past schools discovering technology and
Peter Frank:
throwing it at the students and say, y'all figure it out. And
Peter Frank:
fast forward to now, and it's a very different environment. The
Peter Frank:
technology is different. The nature of the technology is
Peter Frank:
different. The power that it possesses is different. So we
Peter Frank:
understand, but we've had several guests come on. We
Peter Frank:
always get around to talking about AI, and there are many
Peter Frank:
different positions people have taken, and there's often just
Peter Frank:
simply uncertainty, or, yeah, we're holding back, or we're
Peter Frank:
restraining a bit, but your school has just gone all in with
Peter Frank:
the AI. So I'm fascinated, you know, people worry about the
Peter Frank:
challenges. I'm curious what challenges have already arisen,
Peter Frank:
and how are you tackling that? How are you approaching those
Peter Frank:
things?
Jamie Britto:
Yeah, great question. You know, I think as
Jamie Britto:
we look at the different aspects of our community, or components
Jamie Britto:
of our community, we have faculty, we have students, we
Jamie Britto:
have leadership, we have families. I think what surprises
Jamie Britto:
me in AI perhaps more than in other places, and maybe it's not
Jamie Britto:
a surprise given you know how big it is, but like the
Jamie Britto:
emotional response that people have to it is greater than the
Jamie Britto:
introduction of a smart board. Or the introduction of an LMS.
Jamie Britto:
So there are a wide range of like, from very enthusiastic
Jamie Britto:
people to people who feel like this could be the beginning of
Jamie Britto:
the end of humanity. You know, that have concerns about
Jamie Britto:
copyright and the impact on the environment and the impact on
Jamie Britto:
other people of society. And like, you know, where is some of
Jamie Britto:
that training happening in other parts of the world. And so we're
Jamie Britto:
having all of those conversations. We're having the
Jamie Britto:
difficult conversations about, what does it mean to teach and
Jamie Britto:
learn and work in the world of rapidly changing AI and one of
Jamie Britto:
my favorite moments the succinctness of students.
Jamie Britto:
Sometimes there's another group that is called the AI advisory,
Jamie Britto:
which is a less technical group, more interested in these
Jamie Britto:
societal issues and advising the school on how they should
Jamie Britto:
approach it. From a student perspective, a panel of five or
Jamie Britto:
six students from the two groups came and sat before the Upper
Jamie Britto:
School faculty and answered questions from the faculty and
Jamie Britto:
Lakeside is really rooted in the Harkness table model and the
Jamie Britto:
Socratic method, and so there's a very strong culture of
Jamie Britto:
students and faculty engaging in that type of dialog. Teachers
Jamie Britto:
kind of kept hitting on certain points about inappropriate use
Jamie Britto:
of AI. And where is that line and the concerns? And I think I
Jamie Britto:
inferred in that the concern about, well, I've learned how to
Jamie Britto:
do this job really well. I have, you know, 2030, years of
Jamie Britto:
experience doing this job, and this is upending that. And one
Jamie Britto:
of the students after that, and some back and forth about, like,
Jamie Britto:
you know, what's the difference between a Google search and an
Jamie Britto:
AI search? And those types of discussions said, you know, at
Jamie Britto:
the end of the day, I think you're just gonna have to change
Jamie Britto:
your assessments. And I thought, like, yeah, that's a succinct
Jamie Britto:
statement, and that is a challenge to us about if we're
Jamie Britto:
doing that, then we're gonna need to change that. And then
Jamie Britto:
the parent group we were talking about that, and a mom who was
Jamie Britto:
working in one of the tech companies here in Seattle said,
Jamie Britto:
Soon extrinsic knowledge will be at our fingertips. What we do
Jamie Britto:
with the intrinsic knowledge? How we cultivate intrinsic
Jamie Britto:
knowledge will be the challenge to schools. So how do you do
Jamie Britto:
that? And I've been having that play over my head frequently,
Jamie Britto:
because in my life, you had to get the extrinsic knowledge
Jamie Britto:
first before you could then develop intrinsic knowledge. And
Jamie Britto:
so, you know, it's a cognitive shift for me to think about how
Jamie Britto:
you could begin building intrinsic knowledge without
Jamie Britto:
having acquired the extrinsic knowledge. So I think those are,
Jamie Britto:
you know, uncomfortable places to be there aren't ready
Jamie Britto:
answers. You know, Eric Hudson is has a phrase something like
Jamie Britto:
fluency with AI before policy. And so we have a very succinct
Jamie Britto:
policy. It's two sentences, really, for kids. And I think,
Jamie Britto:
you know, we need to keep getting fluent with it, and it
Jamie Britto:
changes so quickly. That's another part that's different
Jamie Britto:
than other kind of adoption pieces for us, that where we
Jamie Britto:
were 18 months ago is not where we are now. So I think, you
Jamie Britto:
know, being able to not be too attached to any particular
Jamie Britto:
insight right now is important.
Bill Stites:
One of the questions I have for you, and I
Bill Stites:
was thinking about this because you mentioned fluency, and it's
Bill Stites:
one of the things that I think we've been talking about are
Bill Stites:
like all the different tools that are out there, and how do
Bill Stites:
you use those tools, and which tools do you choose, so on and
Bill Stites:
so forth. And I know that you've kind of gone all in on Chat GPT
Bill Stites:
at the school, which gives you the one tool to focus on. How
Bill Stites:
did you come around to that? What were the discussions like
Bill Stites:
leading up to that? How have you launched that in the way that
Bill Stites:
you've had to be able to provide that level of access to the
Bill Stites:
community? Yeah,
Jamie Britto:
great question. And again, what I appreciate
Jamie Britto:
about the leadership of the school chi is chi by name, is
Jamie Britto:
the head of school and the board and the general administrative
Jamie Britto:
team is the idea that we're going to have to plan in much
Jamie Britto:
shorter time frames. And so what drove our move to open AI and to
Jamie Britto:
Chat GPT was probably three fold. One was that it was
Jamie Britto:
considered kind of the Swiss Army knife, of all of these
Jamie Britto:
tools. You know, that it was a well received model. It was
Jamie Britto:
powerful. It did different things. It was evolving. And two
Jamie Britto:
that we needed to have equitable access to the community. And so
Jamie Britto:
we knew that some families and some students were having paid
Jamie Britto:
versions and different versions, and some families were not
Jamie Britto:
receptive to AI in general, or that they were just using the
Jamie Britto:
free models. And so the step this summer was, or this spring,
Jamie Britto:
rather, that I'm kind of calling the AI sprint, was to provide
Jamie Britto:
access on an opt in basis to any faculty member five through 12
Jamie Britto:
were middle and upper school, so any faculty member five through
Jamie Britto:
12 and any upper school student whose parents opted them in and
Jamie Britto:
so behind the scenes with that decision was. So we worked with
Jamie Britto:
the school lawyers and with open AI about if we're going to be
Jamie Britto:
providing accounts to students who are under 18 years old, you
Jamie Britto:
know, kind of in the 13 to 17 year range. What did we need to
Jamie Britto:
do? And so we crafted an opt in language that said we understand
Jamie Britto:
that the school is providing this tool to our child and that
Jamie Britto:
they do not have the ability to monitor or regulate its use. And
Jamie Britto:
again, we offer that to teachers as well. And so the idea was to
Jamie Britto:
kind of level the playing field, and say, for the fourth quarter,
Jamie Britto:
and teachers have had it since February. But like, what do we
Jamie Britto:
have to learn from having access to this model? And, you know, I
Jamie Britto:
think AI is a bit of a horse race that people the pack shifts
Jamie Britto:
around open. AI has certainly been in the top three most of
Jamie Britto:
the time, but we're recognizing, you know, that we need to be
Jamie Britto:
able to pivot to something else if need be. So this is a
Jamie Britto:
commitment through the end of this school year. We're looking
Jamie Britto:
at summer school as a second iteration, where courses may be
Jamie Britto:
like more deliberately AI oriented, where that's a clearer
Jamie Britto:
message. Summer School is a great environment, I think, to
Jamie Britto:
do that, you know, because you're there kind of all day on
Jamie Britto:
the topic. We will let that dust settle, we'll review what we've
Jamie Britto:
learned, and we'll come back and see what we should do for the
Jamie Britto:
fall. So a lot of quick changes around that too, and a certain
Jamie Britto:
agility in the institution.
Hiram Cuevas:
So Jamie, just curious, I imagine, with Bill
Hiram Cuevas:
Gates as one of your famous people, you're probably wedded
Hiram Cuevas:
to a lot of Microsoft products as well. Where did copilot stack
Hiram Cuevas:
up? Yeah,
Jamie Britto:
we have used a lot of Microsoft products
Jamie Britto:
historically, copilot did not stack up very well. We were
Jamie Britto:
excited by the possibilities, particularly our current focus
Jamie Britto:
right now is on teaching and learning and less about
Jamie Britto:
productivity. But at the time when copilot came out, you know
Jamie Britto:
the idea that was going to help you handle your inbox better,
Jamie Britto:
you know those were all important questions. And so we
Jamie Britto:
looked at that, we got a few accounts, we sent someone to a
Jamie Britto:
conference. And one of the things that the member of my
Jamie Britto:
team that went to the conference came back with was like, like so
Jamie Britto:
many things with Microsoft, you have to structure your data
Jamie Britto:
ideally, specifically, you know, with SharePoint and OneDrive and
Jamie Britto:
the different stores for it to work, and it required kind of a
Jamie Britto:
monolithic commitment to these Microsoft products. But we use
Jamie Britto:
Google Drive, you know, we have other places. It's not that kind
Jamie Britto:
of one experience that way. And so we saw the cost of admission
Jamie Britto:
was going to be so high on getting people to do that, and
Jamie Britto:
the benefit uncertain that that fell out of contention early on
Jamie Britto:
in the race. And I'll say like Microsoft is a big contributor
Jamie Britto:
to open AI too, so I like to feel like we're honoring that
Jamie Britto:
part of our legacy with open AI as well.
Hiram Cuevas:
Sure. No, absolutely. Well, at least to
Hiram Cuevas:
the question of, you know, are you looking at a data warehouse
Hiram Cuevas:
versus a data lake in terms of the modeling that you're talking
Hiram Cuevas:
about there as well? Yeah.
Jamie Britto:
And I think again, like the gut experience that
Jamie Britto:
people have Chat GPT is what's captured the imagination,
Jamie Britto:
largely. And so we want to be current with those discussions
Jamie Britto:
as well. Yeah,
Peter Frank:
Jamie, I want to back up a little bit because you
Peter Frank:
talked about the plan. So you've got the this semester plan, next
Peter Frank:
semester plan, multi stages when you were developing all of this.
Peter Frank:
I'm curious both how involved were students in developing the
Peter Frank:
plan and what themes emerged as we're definitely going to have
Peter Frank:
to deal with this, and we'll definitely have to deal with
Peter Frank:
that. I'm curious about those things, you
Jamie Britto:
know. I guess it's easier to look back than it
Jamie Britto:
would be to have looked forward, you know, and kind of see, like,
Jamie Britto:
what happened. I don't know that it was intentional all the time.
Jamie Britto:
The way things unfold, it right? Like that metaphor of like, you
Jamie Britto:
thought you're going to take the train, but you had to take a cab
Jamie Britto:
instead. The student groups that I mentioned, the Andromeda club
Jamie Britto:
that works on the hosted model, and the Advisory Council have
Jamie Britto:
been part of the dialog for the last eight months, 10 months,
Jamie Britto:
and so they've had that perspective, and they've been
Jamie Britto:
advocating, you know, like this, again, this local model that is
Jamie Britto:
available to everyone that has different access, So that,
Jamie Britto:
again, as an equitable access. But on campus, we also began
Jamie Britto:
conversations with the faculty about that and how they would
Jamie Britto:
like to use it and support it. Then we, you know, we had micro
Jamie Britto:
grants available for the last two years to faculty where they
Jamie Britto:
pitched a particular instructional use or
Jamie Britto:
productivity use for themselves, and they tried it. So we were
Jamie Britto:
having that dialog of, what are we seeing with these tools, and
Jamie Britto:
how does that inform policy? And I would say my inference is that
Jamie Britto:
the head of school thought that we had reached a tipping point
Jamie Britto:
and we were ready to take this chance that there were enough
Jamie Britto:
people, there were enough early, promising developments. And
Jamie Britto:
societally, i. You know, that's another piece that schools
Jamie Britto:
think. One of my quotes, another quote I like, I think, was from
Jamie Britto:
Will Richardson, and he said, schools measure time with a
Jamie Britto:
calendar and technology with a stop watch. And so the idea that
Jamie Britto:
schools can control that timing sometimes is delusional, perhaps
Jamie Britto:
a bit. And so I think like seeing how the outside world was
Jamie Britto:
responding, or how it was developing outside of school,
Jamie Britto:
equally influenced us or encouraged us to step into that.
Jamie Britto:
So head of school went to the upper school department heads
Jamie Britto:
and had a conversation about it. They then had conversations
Jamie Britto:
within their departments. We had some general meetings. We
Jamie Britto:
informed the students who had been helping us with this, and
Jamie Britto:
they started they started to help us craft this. And it was
Jamie Britto:
also like, what can we try right now? You know, like, it was less
Jamie Britto:
about the master plan, about, like, what can we provision? How
Jamie Britto:
can we work it out? How can we get this experience this spring,
Jamie Britto:
so that we have something to build on. So I like that design
Jamie Britto:
thinking model of what can we try now, and I think that
Jamie Britto:
probably drove a lot of it, rather than the perfect 18
Jamie Britto:
months, three year plan. So
Bill Stites:
Jamie, one of the questions that always pops up in
Bill Stites:
terms of that fluency piece, you know, how do you develop that
Bill Stites:
fluency? What is your professional development plan
Bill Stites:
been like for working with faculty to help build that
Bill Stites:
fluency. How does that shape up? What does that look like?
Jamie Britto:
Well, since that email went out from the academic
Jamie Britto:
dean two years ago, you know, we've been encouraging people so
Jamie Britto:
we have made accounts available. We've been willing to work with
Jamie Britto:
folks. We had a full day developed to AI for the faculty
Jamie Britto:
two years ago, and I think some of the things that were
Jamie Britto:
successful on that day was one, we created a couple of places we
Jamie Britto:
called playgrounds, where we had all the different AI models
Jamie Britto:
available for teachers to try and there were guides there to
Jamie Britto:
help them, including some students. But the part that I've
Jamie Britto:
always liked in this job is finding the teacher who has used
Jamie Britto:
a technology or has a specific story, you know, like the
Jamie Britto:
critical friends model of giving feedback to teachers, where
Jamie Britto:
they're sharing their story and it's about teaching and learning
Jamie Britto:
and they're talking to other teachers. So that PD day, we had
Jamie Britto:
had, you know, probably 15 to 18 different sessions where
Jamie Britto:
teachers were talking about how they had used AI in their
Jamie Britto:
classroom with students or in a productivity model. And so I
Jamie Britto:
think that was important, and making those connections and
Jamie Britto:
then supporting people who might be interested in that. So, you
Jamie Britto:
know, in math and computer science in particular, there's a
Jamie Britto:
disposition to looking at this, and it certainly changed in some
Jamie Britto:
pieces. So, you know, one of my favorite examples was a math
Jamie Britto:
teacher who teaches a B calculus, which is kind of not
Jamie Britto:
the most competitive math at Lakeside. And so he was saying,
Jamie Britto:
for non math majors who have access to this tool, what is it
Jamie Britto:
that I want them to know and be able to do when it comes to
Jamie Britto:
calculus? So that's a fascinating thing that he has,
Jamie Britto:
and kind of, again, gets to that you're gonna have to change your
Jamie Britto:
assessment question or statement, like, if non math
Jamie Britto:
majors are taking calculus, how can he structure a lesson where
Jamie Britto:
it assumes that they have access to open AI? And so that's
Jamie Britto:
fascinating to me, and that power of that narrative and his
Jamie Britto:
exploration is there. So I think it's encouraging those flowers
Jamie Britto:
to bloom, while also providing the right structures throughout
Jamie Britto:
the year and through summer workshops and grants to people.
Hiram Cuevas:
So, Jamie, you mentioned mathematics. I'm
Hiram Cuevas:
curious how you all have made the pivot from a curricular
Hiram Cuevas:
perspective in computer science. I mean, the whole coding
Hiram Cuevas:
landscape has been turned over on its head in terms of what
Hiram Cuevas:
students and just general users are capable of now creating as a
Hiram Cuevas:
result. Yeah,
Jamie Britto:
so the computer science department was early to
Jamie Britto:
this party, and we were providing different accounts for
Jamie Britto:
them to experiment with that and see how that would change how
Jamie Britto:
they wrote code. And you know, that's been a quick change. We
Jamie Britto:
have members in our community who are in that area, and
Jamie Britto:
they've been sharing their perspectives with the school as
Jamie Britto:
well. So I think accepting augmentation in computer science
Jamie Britto:
classes with AI is just happened, period. And I think
Jamie Britto:
GitHub is another place that they've used freely to kind of
Jamie Britto:
look at those types of things. And so it's kind of, again,
Jamie Britto:
providing the professional grade tools to kids about what that
Jamie Britto:
is. And you know, some of the students who work for us are
Jamie Britto:
interested in being programmers, and they're saying, kind of like
Jamie Britto:
me and teaching French like, I don't know that they're going to
Jamie Britto:
need as many programmers as they did when I was a sophomore in
Jamie Britto:
high school, you know, and so that's kind of a rapid change.
Peter Frank:
Is there anything else Jamie, that you want to
Peter Frank:
talk about as far as your AI project before we move on to
Peter Frank:
other things? There's so much we want to talk to you about.
Jamie Britto:
I'm excited to hear from the community broadly.
Jamie Britto:
I'm looking forward to sharing these types of updates from time
Jamie Britto:
to time, be it through some website. And so like, the
Jamie Britto:
questions that we should be thinking about, the questions
Jamie Britto:
you might have, like, what would you like us to know at the
Jamie Britto:
different times? Like, you know, what might be reasonable for us
Jamie Britto:
to conclude or observe in the spring and in the summer and in
Jamie Britto:
the fall? Love to hear your thoughts today and over time as
Jamie Britto:
well. So
Bill Stites:
Jamie, one of the things I want to do, actually,
Bill Stites:
is pivot slightly, and I want to go into the way back machine,
Bill Stites:
sure, because I think about where I heard of you, and what
Bill Stites:
was the thing that introduced me to you had to do with cyber,
Bill Stites:
cyber security, cyber risk. I'm curious on a number of levels,
Bill Stites:
but my first question is, since that point in time, where do you
Bill Stites:
see things right now, from an area of cyber risk, just cyber
Bill Stites:
awareness, from where you were to where you are now? Because I
Bill Stites:
think a lot of things have changed, and a lot of things
Bill Stites:
have stayed the same. So I'm really curious as to your take
Bill Stites:
on it.
Jamie Britto:
I have two kind of milestones along the way that I
Jamie Britto:
think about and the first one was the first cyber incident
Jamie Britto:
that I experienced and survived. And, you know, wrote about an
Jamie Britto:
NBOA, and kind of led to that chapter of my career where I was
Jamie Britto:
helping the Independent School community think about that. But
Jamie Britto:
in that call, you know, it was in 2014 or 15 and prominent
Jamie Britto:
member of the leadership team's email had been compromised. You
Jamie Britto:
know, this is before MFA was really a thing, and it just spun
Jamie Britto:
out. And the web that came out of that was remarkable to me in
Jamie Britto:
terms of the abilities and motivations of a criminal
Jamie Britto:
element to exploit that data and that they were in our systems.
Jamie Britto:
They weren't on our campus, but they were menacing, and they
Jamie Britto:
were out to steal and do harm. And when that happened,
Jamie Britto:
eventually, I got on the phone with a lawyer, and I got on the
Jamie Britto:
phone with a cyber forensic investigator, and we started to
Jamie Britto:
figure out what we needed to do when an incident happens. Now,
Jamie Britto:
there's typically an equal number of lawyers involved in
Jamie Britto:
the conversation as there are technologists. And so I think it
Jamie Britto:
is largely shifted to be a risk management question as much as
Jamie Britto:
it is a technology question. And so I think, you know, like, what
Jamie Britto:
is reasonable to do? How do we demonstrate that that we've been
Jamie Britto:
reasonable? My CFO barrage has used a metaphor of, like,
Jamie Britto:
building codes for fire inspection have led to the kind
Jamie Britto:
of systematic approach of, how do we handle safety in
Jamie Britto:
buildings? And while, you know, we all have to do the fire drill
Jamie Britto:
and we have to check these different things that they have
Jamie Britto:
largely reduced loss of life and property to fires. So she uses
Jamie Britto:
that as an analogy to say, this is kind of where we're headed
Jamie Britto:
with cyber as well. And we're establishing a legal framework.
Jamie Britto:
We're establishing the insurance framework that decides what's a
Jamie Britto:
reasonable risk, and how do we mitigate that? So we're never
Jamie Britto:
going to be 100% but are we reasonable, and are we managing
Jamie Britto:
risk relative to our resources, relative to the way that we do
Jamie Britto:
work, and relative to the time and energy we have to spend on
Jamie Britto:
it, you know? And I think that's the constant, is that
Jamie Britto:
independent schools, even well resourced schools, there are a
Jamie Britto:
lot of things competing for our attention, and so like, how do
Jamie Britto:
we figure out, what is that right, risk tolerance? And one
Jamie Britto:
of the takeaways for me is like, have you gone through the annual
Jamie Britto:
assessment with cyber insurance, and did you get insured? And
Jamie Britto:
that is like, a base level risk management, like, whatever
Jamie Britto:
they're saying. And you know, those questions have changed. If
Jamie Britto:
you filled out those surveys, like year to year, they'll
Jamie Britto:
change, and we don't. Again, we move with calendars. We don't
Jamie Britto:
move with stop watches. So when those things are coming up, it
Jamie Britto:
can be a challenge, but I think that is the litmus test for what
Jamie Britto:
is appropriate risk management.
Bill Stites:
You know, generally, when those policies
Bill Stites:
come up, I just dealt with it, so I know exactly what you're
Bill Stites:
talking about, but it's one of those things where, when you
Bill Stites:
read through that, and strangely enough, this morning, I was
Bill Stites:
having a conversation with our director of HR, and having to
Bill Stites:
explain what's in those policies, I almost wish more
Bill Stites:
people would at least read the questionnaire that you've got to
Bill Stites:
figure out, because I don't think there's enough of an
Bill Stites:
understanding throughout the school, in the different areas
Bill Stites:
in the school, just to what degree we need to be prepared
Bill Stites:
when it comes to risk, and how many different areas that plays
Bill Stites:
out. And you know, why do we do fishing exercises? Why do we
Bill Stites:
need certain checks and balances around anything that has to do
Bill Stites:
with financial interactions, and just an email isn't going to
Bill Stites:
survive, and all of those pieces, I think building a
Bill Stites:
greater level of understanding around those things. And I think
Bill Stites:
that's what committees do you have in the school on risk, and
Bill Stites:
who's on those, and how do you share that? I think it's just.
Bill Stites:
So something I know we need to explore a little bit more. And I
Bill Stites:
wonder how many other schools are in that same situation.
Bill Stites:
Yeah,
Jamie Britto:
I could talk about that a little bit. You know.
Jamie Britto:
Again, I would say the schools I've worked at have been very
Jamie Britto:
different in terms of their risk profiles and their resources.
Jamie Britto:
But one thing I've always thought was important was to
Jamie Britto:
never let a crisis go to waste, and so when something happens to
Jamie Britto:
be ready to engage the community around that, because there's a
Jamie Britto:
receptiveness at those moments that will fade. The other is
Jamie Britto:
what might be called the call to expertise, and they sometimes go
Jamie Britto:
hand in hand. So we've had an incident. Now let's have someone
Jamie Britto:
explain it to us, but I have worked a long time going back to
Jamie Britto:
that first incident at collegiate with the group that's
Jamie Britto:
now at ancora. And so having in my second year here, I think we
Jamie Britto:
had a large engagement with them, and they came on campus
Jamie Britto:
and they interviewed people. And so it became like, you know, I
Jamie Britto:
wasn't the one having the discussion head to head. It was
Jamie Britto:
this expert coming in and interviewing people about their
Jamie Britto:
process and raising that awareness that then allowed us
Jamie Britto:
to kind of move forward. And so, you know, we continue to go back
Jamie Britto:
to that. But their expertise, their ability to talk about the
Jamie Britto:
flows and to be responsive to the concerns that people had,
Jamie Britto:
have helped change that culture so that it's a broader
Jamie Britto:
discussion, like you're saying. And here, the cyber policy is
Jamie Britto:
largely handled by the controller, who oversees risk in
Jamie Britto:
general, and she and I work well together on those pieces, but it
Jamie Britto:
is understood has another aspect of risk that the controller
Jamie Britto:
manages and that we work on together.
Peter Frank:
It's such an important thing I remember this
Peter Frank:
is I'm about to start my fourth year at Atlas, but when I first
Peter Frank:
started, AI was not nearly as significant a topic four to
Peter Frank:
three plus years ago, and it was all about cyber security and
Peter Frank:
data privacy. That was the big thing. You know, so much of our
Peter Frank:
content was dedicated towards that. So I was learning, oh,
Peter Frank:
cyber security is the big topic. AI has come along, man, I've
Peter Frank:
seen how it's just so quickly, not brushed it aside, but almost
Peter Frank:
buried. Cyber security, data privacy, like all those problems
Peter Frank:
still exist. And on top of that, we've got the AI. I think about
Peter Frank:
the people I've met that they're the only person at their school
Peter Frank:
that has to contend with these things. I really liked your
Peter Frank:
example of things like using cyber insurance application and
Peter Frank:
and your cyber insurance policy as a baseline ways, and you can
Peter Frank:
help mitigate that. Could AI itself help with that issue of,
Peter Frank:
what about cyber security? What about data privacy? Those are
Peter Frank:
still concerns. Plus, we've got AI to deal with now, perhaps AI
Peter Frank:
as much of the problem of overshadowing these other
Peter Frank:
things, perhaps AI can actually help with some of those things.
Jamie Britto:
Yeah, I can give you a couple examples where
Jamie Britto:
that's been the case, and I would also add, so we're insured
Jamie Britto:
through Beasley, which I think is a great insurance company to
Jamie Britto:
be with. I've been with them at different times. I appreciate
Jamie Britto:
the resources and responsiveness they have, but one of their
Jamie Britto:
webinars maybe a year ago was on how AI is going to also just
Jamie Britto:
increase the skill and threat of cyber attacks that the same
Jamie Britto:
things that we can do in schools, the criminals are doing
Jamie Britto:
now. They're able to write more compelling phishing emails.
Jamie Britto:
They're able to provide background dossiers on public
Jamie Britto:
figures. They are accelerating this in a big way, and the
Jamie Britto:
ability to automate things is going to also come from Ai. One
Jamie Britto:
of the things that we've done with the risk mitigation
Jamie Britto:
profile, and that it is an ongoing process, the floor is we
Jamie Britto:
get cyber insurance every year, whatever it takes to get that.
Jamie Britto:
The ceiling is finding some other framework. And we're using
Jamie Britto:
the CIS 18, where it allows us to kind of have a reporting
Jamie Britto:
structure, to board into governance and to show where we
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are. And it's, you know, 18 different categories. You get a
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green, a yellow or a red, you know, we ended up with like, six
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reds on our initial scan. So teachers don't like that.
Jamie Britto:
Schools don't like red. So, like, we had to think about,
Jamie Britto:
like, how are we going to move, you know? And one of my phrases
Jamie Britto:
that I took from the Cubs that won the World Series, their
Jamie Britto:
mantra that summer was, suck less. So, like, we're not going
Jamie Britto:
to be great, but if you can suck less, maybe you win the World
Jamie Britto:
Series. So it's about being better at second base with
Jamie Britto:
whatever they were doing, the tags or whatever. And so when I
Jamie Britto:
look at those CIS 18 and I'm thinking, like, yeah, we're not
Jamie Britto:
going to be great. We don't need to be great, but we can suck
Bill Stites:
less. That's what I say to hire them all the time.
Unknown:
Brutal, man, I was gonna say the Phillies, but you
Unknown:
know,
Jamie Britto:
there we go. So one of the things where AI has
Jamie Britto:
helped me specifically is CI s 18 and these different red
Jamie Britto:
zones, or red area scores, you needed to write policy. These,
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you needed to have policy to check the box or to get that
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score, and you need to be able to write policies that you're
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following. And so to have an AI assistant help me and say, you
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know, this is the standard. This is what I'm doing. Help me craft
Jamie Britto:
a policy and then be able to kind of revise it and revise and
Jamie Britto:
revise it without it taking my mental power or knowledge to do
Jamie Britto:
that and get to a policy that I can then bring to the people
Jamie Britto:
that it's going to impact, or to, you know, and core, or to
Jamie Britto:
the cyber insurance people. That has been a big catalyst for me.
Jamie Britto:
I like this analogy of like, you have to know enough about the
Jamie Britto:
problem at the beginning, and you have to know what good is at
Jamie Britto:
the end, but AI can help you get from like step three to step
Jamie Britto:
eight or nine much more efficiently. And I find that
Jamie Britto:
there are certain times where I'm cognitively sharper during
Jamie Britto:
the day, like I can do that type of synthesis. I can manage AI at
Jamie Britto:
my lower cognitive levels, because I'm talking with it, and
Jamie Britto:
it's helping me too. So I think that's a big one for me, is when
Jamie Britto:
we look at this broader piece, how can it help us develop those
Jamie Britto:
policies? That's fantastic.
Peter Frank:
I think that's really helpful to people,
Peter Frank:
especially those one person shops where they're the only
Peter Frank:
person they have I'm definitely aware of when I am sharp is
Peter Frank:
which is definitely early in the morning, and in the morning,
Peter Frank:
I've not thought about AI filling in. From that
Peter Frank:
perspective, that's really great. That's
Unknown:
why Bill's on AI all the time.
Bill Stites:
He had to get that in. He needed something there.
Bill Stites:
He needed to come back at me with something Well played,
Peter Frank:
Hiram. We'll put one on the board for Hiram,
Unknown:
just trying to suck less
Peter Frank:
well. Jamie, this conversation has been fantastic.
Peter Frank:
We can kind of bring it home with being the driver, being the
Peter Frank:
passenger. You're reaching the later stages of your career. So
Peter Frank:
thinking about continuity, allowing someone else to drive,
Peter Frank:
I'm sure is on your mind, so curious how you're managing the
Peter Frank:
continuity for whomever is going to step into your shoes next,
Peter Frank:
and those kinds of things could share with us.
Jamie Britto:
Well, you know, one of the things I say again
Jamie Britto:
and again and again is it's people, process and technology.
Jamie Britto:
Also a significant focus for me has been being able to be
Jamie Britto:
aligned with and talk to leadership. That was an up for
Jamie Britto:
school head for a while, and I think that was a helpful
Jamie Britto:
experience for me to understand the broader perspective. And so
Jamie Britto:
where will the school need to be, where the schools
Jamie Britto:
intentions, and what are the processes that we can put in
Jamie Britto:
place now to kind of make sure things are stable. I believe
Jamie Britto:
that your service desk, your ability to help people, your
Jamie Britto:
ability to be seen as productive, is the number one
Jamie Britto:
job a tech department has, and once you have that platform, you
Jamie Britto:
can start to build into some of the other pieces. So I think I'm
Jamie Britto:
not quite ready to sign those papers yet, but as I think
Jamie Britto:
through those things like, am I developing members of my team,
Jamie Britto:
and giving them the opportunity to take over pieces of
Jamie Britto:
responsibilities, you know, where they're leading and I'm
Jamie Britto:
consulting, is an important part that making things transparent,
Jamie Britto:
figuring out a good process around just the stuff that has
Jamie Britto:
to happen with technology, you know, and getting that built.
Jamie Britto:
And so like at a previous school that I left to take a job here,
Jamie Britto:
figuring out what the renewal process was going to be to
Jamie Britto:
maintain equipment and the budgeting for that, and making
Jamie Britto:
that transparent and getting agreement on all of that, that
Jamie Britto:
was a key part of a leadership transition, because, again, to
Jamie Britto:
have that sustainable base, It was important to have that thing
Jamie Britto:
taken care of. You know, you have to build foundationally.
Jamie Britto:
And then I think it's kind of the discussions, the candid
Jamie Britto:
discussions with leadership, about, where are we not
Jamie Britto:
performing as high as we might, where the opportunities an
Jamie Britto:
exercise that I've done frequently, geez, I guess it's
Jamie Britto:
coming up on 10 years now, like, in terms of, like, how things go
Jamie Britto:
is to develop a series of questions that we pose to the
Jamie Britto:
leadership of the school. So at Lakeside, that's about 18 folks
Jamie Britto:
that are on the directors group, and it's 10 areas of technology
Jamie Britto:
with the one sentence description that asks them, what
Jamie Britto:
is your priority for these 10 things, and what is your
Jamie Britto:
satisfaction with these things? We do the same thing with the
Jamie Britto:
tech department, and we see where the alignment is. And
Jamie Britto:
again, that's a leadership transition piece. That's a
Jamie Britto:
leadership piece in general, but that exercise has been very
Jamie Britto:
helpful to helping both sides understand it. And you know,
Jamie Britto:
sometimes the director will say, Well, I don't know what this is.
Jamie Britto:
I can't do this exercise. And so I work with them to say, well, I
Jamie Britto:
this is basically what that is like. I need you to answer each
Jamie Britto:
of these things. It's 10 things. So you have to have that base
Jamie Britto:
knowledge to be able to rank them and give me your
Jamie Britto:
satisfaction. But I think when you have that culture. Or an
Jamie Britto:
experience, then it allows it to be more of an external map, like
Jamie Britto:
we have a score card, and did we do those things? One of my
Jamie Britto:
favorite pieces every time I've done that survey, Wi Fi is the
Jamie Britto:
most important priority for everybody. And for three years,
Jamie Britto:
I was like, You got to be kidding me. You know, there are
Jamie Britto:
so many other things and like, look, this is a big campus.
Jamie Britto:
You're going to switch buildings. It's not going to be
Jamie Britto:
like your home, you know, it's not going to be the same. So I
Jamie Britto:
was trying to persuade people that Wi Fi shouldn't be their
Jamie Britto:
top priority. And eventually I came around to the fact that,
Jamie Britto:
well, it was their priority. And I needed to figure that out. I
Jamie Britto:
needed to address it. I needed to make it suck less, and I
Jamie Britto:
needed to kind of see where we are, and like when you return
Jamie Britto:
that you find the areas that are annoying, that's a high
Jamie Britto:
annoyance level, and you work on them that helps build that
Jamie Britto:
culture and helps with that transition too. So hopefully,
Jamie Britto:
when it's time for me to change schools, or when it's time for
Jamie Britto:
me to move into a different role, in general, the muscles
Jamie Britto:
will be built up, the processes will be built up, the people
Jamie Britto:
internally will be built up, and that collaboration and
Jamie Britto:
communication with leadership will be there. And so whenever
Jamie Britto:
there's a role change, be it at the head of the department or
Jamie Britto:
within the department, hopefully that makes it more seamless and
Jamie Britto:
less kind of of the tussle that sometimes has happened in my
Jamie Britto:
career between a certain priority, or, you know, this or
Jamie Britto:
that or the other thing,
Peter Frank:
fantastic. You've piqued some interest. I think
Peter Frank:
with the 10 question survey in that process, perhaps we can get
Peter Frank:
our hands on a sample of those documents. I think a lot of
Peter Frank:
people would be interested in that. Yeah, sure. Jamie, thank
Peter Frank:
you so much for sharing your time and your insights with us.
Peter Frank:
This has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you for
Peter Frank:
putting up with Bill and Hiram. We really appreciate that. I
Peter Frank:
just had to get that in there point for me. But in all
Peter Frank:
seriousness, thank you so much for doing this for us. Our
Peter Frank:
audience really appreciates it all the sharing that you're
Peter Frank:
doing here. Thank you. You're welcome
Unknown:
and thanks for having me.
Peter Frank:
This has been talking technology with Atlas,
Peter Frank:
produced by the Association of Technology Leaders in
Peter Frank:
Independent Schools. For more information about Atlas and
Peter Frank:
Atlas membership, please visit the atlas.org if you enjoyed
Peter Frank:
this discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and
Peter Frank:
share this podcast with your colleagues in the independent
Peter Frank:
school community. Thank you for listening. You.
