Shoshanna Sumka on Experiential Education & Leadership

Peter Frank 00:00:02
Nick welcome to Talking technology with Atlas,

Peter Frank 00:00:05
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for

Peter Frank 00:00:08
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens,

Peter Frank 00:00:12
we'll hear stories from technology directors and other

Peter Frank 00:00:15
special guests from the Independent School community and

Peter Frank 00:00:17
provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.

Ashley Cross 00:00:22
Hello, everyone. So you'll notice today I am not

Ashley Cross 00:00:26
Kristina Lewellen. This is Ashley Cross. I'm the Senior

Ashley Cross 00:00:29
Director of Education and content here at Atlas, and I'm

Ashley Cross 00:00:33
very excited to fill in for Kristina. Today, we're going to

Ashley Cross 00:00:37
welcome a special guest in just a few minutes, Shoshana sunka,

Ashley Cross 00:00:40
who is the Executive Director of the Independent School

Ashley Cross 00:00:43
Experiential Education Network, I see, but before we do that,

Ashley Cross 00:00:46
we'd like to just catch you up on what's happening. So we just

Ashley Cross 00:00:50
got through with Memorial Day weekend. Bill Hiram, how did it

Ashley Cross 00:00:53
go? What you guys do this Memorial Day? Good

Hiram Cuevas 00:00:56
morning, Ashley. It's good to be here for those

Hiram Cuevas 00:00:58
who don't know, I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of

Hiram Cuevas 00:01:00
Information Systems at St Christopher school in Richmond,

Hiram Cuevas 00:01:03
Virginia. So we had a wonderful time at our home. We had all the

Hiram Cuevas 00:01:08
children come on over for a nice cookout. And we actually live

Hiram Cuevas 00:01:11
right around the corner from a neighborhood pool, so there's

Hiram Cuevas 00:01:15
all sorts of excitement going on in that vicinity. So we can hear

Hiram Cuevas 00:01:19
all the laughter and all the patriotic music being played and

Hiram Cuevas 00:01:22
the celebrations going on. So it was kind of a nice way to kind

Hiram Cuevas 00:01:25
of have some fellowship at home and some good food and family

Hiram Cuevas 00:01:29
time. That's awesome.

Bill Stites 00:01:30
I am Bill Stites, the Director of Technology at

Bill Stites 00:01:33
Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair New Jersey, but at

Bill Stites 00:01:36
this stage, after the weekend that I have, I feel like I am

Bill Stites 00:01:39
the New Jersey Parkway traveler. Normally on this weekend, I am

Bill Stites 00:01:46
down the Jersey Shore in Margate with my mother spending time on

Bill Stites 00:01:49
the beach. But as many of you know, my oldest has just

Bill Stites 00:01:53
graduated college. He has landed his first job, which put him out

Bill Stites 00:01:57
on Staten Island, scenic Staten Island, he was out there on

Bill Stites 00:02:01
Saturday starting his new job, and proceeded to have a car

Bill Stites 00:02:05
breakdown. So I spent my weekend driving down to the shore,

Bill Stites 00:02:10
driving back up home, dealing with that, and then driving back

Bill Stites 00:02:14
to the shore, and then driving back home yet again. So I think

Bill Stites 00:02:18
this is now the first time where it feels like my back end is not

Bill Stites 00:02:22
moving, is not doing between 70 miles an hour and 35 miles an

Bill Stites 00:02:26
hour, which, if you've ever traveled in New Jersey on any

Bill Stites 00:02:31
type of holiday weekend in the summer, you know you're either

Bill Stites 00:02:34
moving very fast or you're not moving at all. So I experienced

Bill Stites 00:02:37
all of that this past weekend, and I'm happy to be actually

Bill Stites 00:02:41
back at work, which is not something I normally say after a

Bill Stites 00:02:44
long weekend. I usually wanna still be on the beach, but I'm

Bill Stites 00:02:47
happy to be back and at it

Ashley Cross 00:02:49
Well, Bill, I'm kind of on the opposite end of

Ashley Cross 00:02:51
the parenting spectrum right now. My kids just got out of

Ashley Cross 00:02:55
school. My son finished kindergarten. My daughter

Ashley Cross 00:02:57
finished preschool. So we had the little blow up pool in the

Ashley Cross 00:02:59
backyard. It's really nice, very hot down here in southern

Ashley Cross 00:03:02
Alabama. So let's turn and start talking about our guest.

Ashley Cross 00:03:07
Shoshana. Is a longtime leader in global learning and

Ashley Cross 00:03:11
experiential pedagogy, so y'all She's really cool. I'm so

Ashley Cross 00:03:14
excited to have her on the pod today. She's got over two

Ashley Cross 00:03:17
decades of experience spanning university programs, k 12

Ashley Cross 00:03:20
independent schools and national networks from keto to Sidwell

Ashley Cross 00:03:24
Friends and now to her work at Isee, she has dedicated her

Ashley Cross 00:03:27
career to building inclusive, Justice centered learning

Ashley Cross 00:03:30
experiences that spark real world impact. Shoshana, welcome

Ashley Cross 00:03:34
to the pod and tell us too, would you do

Shoshanna Shumka 00:03:36
this Memorial Day? Oh my gosh. Thank you so

Shoshanna Shumka 00:03:39
much for having me here today. It's really exciting to be here.

Shoshanna Shumka 00:03:42
I went camping. I guess that's you know what experiential

Shoshanna Shumka 00:03:46
educators do. But we went to a really family friendly also have

Shoshanna Shumka 00:03:50
a fourth grader, so closer to that end of the parenting

Shoshanna Shumka 00:03:53
spectrum. But we went camping at the little Bennett campground

Shoshanna Shumka 00:03:57
here in Maryland, and we had a great time. We have beautiful

Shoshanna Shumka 00:04:01
weather. The sun was shining. It was freezing at night, so we

Shoshanna Shumka 00:04:04
kind of snuggled in our sleeping bags, but it was a great time.

Ashley Cross 00:04:08
Shoshana, I have to tell you, my kindergartener

Ashley Cross 00:04:11
Bennett, came home with a flyer for Cub Scouts at the beginning

Ashley Cross 00:04:14
of the year, and it was like camping, and I was not a camping

Ashley Cross 00:04:18
person at all. We've gotten into it this year with my family, and

Ashley Cross 00:04:21
it has been such a lovely family experience for us. We've had a

Ashley Cross 00:04:25
really, really good year. So that's cool that you guys do

Ashley Cross 00:04:28
that as well. Yeah, it's really

Shoshanna Shumka 00:04:29
fun. You're like, in nature, you're like, No

Shoshanna Shumka 00:04:32
devices, you're just running around.

Unknown 00:04:35
Yep, I actually

Hiram Cuevas 00:04:36
went camping for our honeymoon with my bride two

Hiram Cuevas 00:04:39
weeks. We can't we hit a bunch of national parks, and we

Hiram Cuevas 00:04:43
figured out this marriage was going to last if we could hang

Hiram Cuevas 00:04:45
out in a two person tent for two weeks.

Unknown 00:04:49
Wow. Hiram,

Ashley Cross 00:04:50
that is very adventurous. I'm impressed. 31

Ashley Cross 00:04:53
years later, we're still together.

Bill Stites 00:04:55
You might want to have done that prior to getting

Bill Stites 00:04:57
married, but that's a different story. But yes, that's the 10.

Bill Stites 00:05:00
To do prior to actually putting the ring on the finger, my

Unknown 00:05:02
friend. So

Ashley Cross 00:05:04
Shawna, we're talking a lot about experiential

Ashley Cross 00:05:06
education today. I love that you kicked us off with camping. Can

Ashley Cross 00:05:08
you tell us a little bit about just a personal experience, kind

Ashley Cross 00:05:11
of outside the classroom that's helped how you shape the world?

Shoshanna Shumka 00:05:15
Well, this is a bit unusual, but when I was a

Shoshanna Shumka 00:05:19
senior in high school, my entire family moved to Nairobi, Kenya

Shoshanna Shumka 00:05:24
in East Africa. This was for my dad's job, and as you can

Shoshanna Shumka 00:05:28
imagine, it totally shifted the entire way that I see the world.

Shoshanna Shumka 00:05:33
So attending high school in Kenya, I went to school with

Shoshanna Shumka 00:05:38
people from all over the world who spoke dozens of different

Shoshanna Shumka 00:05:41
languages, the entire landscape of the East African savannah was

Shoshanna Shumka 00:05:46
different than where I grew up, in Silver Spring Maryland, and I

Shoshanna Shumka 00:05:51
learned about the importance of relationships across difference

Shoshanna Shumka 00:05:54
and how we learn from each other and just build understanding of

Shoshanna Shumka 00:05:59
People who are different than you. So that transformational

Shoshanna Shumka 00:06:02
experience, for me, sparked a desire to continue learning and

Shoshanna Shumka 00:06:07
traveling around the world. That's what kicked

Bill Stites 00:06:09
it off. That's impressive. Spending that amount

Bill Stites 00:06:13
of time going abroad like that. You don't often hear of that

Bill Stites 00:06:16
type of high school experience, and that probably provided you

Bill Stites 00:06:20
an incredible overview and insight to how you can benefit

Bill Stites 00:06:24
from this type of travel, this type of work, getting out in the

Bill Stites 00:06:27
field, doing the things that you're doing. But before we kind

Bill Stites 00:06:30
of get into it, I would love for you to define for us, when we're

Bill Stites 00:06:36
talking about experiential education, what does that mean

Bill Stites 00:06:40
for you, and how does that differ from what we might be

Bill Stites 00:06:43
doing in schools that we might be calling project based

Bill Stites 00:06:46
learning or any other type of umbrella you want to put over

Bill Stites 00:06:49
that type of learning? What does that mean to you to set the

Bill Stites 00:06:52
context for the conversation for our listeners?

Shoshanna Shumka 00:06:54
I really appreciate that question, Bill,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:06:56
and also you might not know, but your school is an Isee member.

Bill Stites 00:07:00
Oh, I know, yes, I know. Yes, not. I do know your

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:03
school is doing it. And different people

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:07
think about experiential education in different ways, but

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:09
one shorthand way of talking about it is learning by doing.

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:14
But it's so much more to that when I talk about experiential

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:18
education, I'm thinking about a learning cycle where both

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:22
children and adults, we all learn through reflecting on

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:26
experiences. It's pretty simple when you think about it that

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:30
way, and we broaden that to think of experiential education,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:34
or the way that I talk about it is as a pedagogy or even a

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:39
mindset shift that incorporates the whole person. So it's

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:43
looking at head, heart, hands, so emotional, cognitive and

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:50
physical learning that has a holistic, interdisciplinary

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:54
focus. So it brings in a lot of academic subjects that is

Shoshanna Shumka 00:07:58
applicable to the real world. And you know what you said?

Shoshanna Shumka 00:08:00
Bill, yes, project based learning, place based learning,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:08:04
outdoor education, are all under the umbrella. There's a big tent

Shoshanna Shumka 00:08:08
of experiential education. So all of those things are

Shoshanna Shumka 00:08:12
considered experiential education.

Hiram Cuevas 00:08:14
So Shauna, if we were to take a quick overview of

Hiram Cuevas 00:08:19
your journey starting, obviously, it seemed like high

Hiram Cuevas 00:08:22
school was one of those life experiences that probably is a

Hiram Cuevas 00:08:27
punctuated moment in your life that has led you to the

Hiram Cuevas 00:08:32
direction that you're in today. But what brought you to actually

Hiram Cuevas 00:08:35
lead Isee,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:08:37
I love working with educators, so that's number

Shoshanna Shumka 00:08:40
one. And going backwards, you know, I grew up in a family that

Shoshanna Shumka 00:08:45
instilled Jewish social justice values and with the idea that we

Shoshanna Shumka 00:08:51
should leave the world a better place than we found it. And so I

Shoshanna Shumka 00:08:54
was engaged in environmental work. After we left Kenya, I did

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:00
a gap year in Israel, Palestine, I studied abroad in Indonesia,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:05
and then after college, I wanted to save the rain forest. You

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:10
know, like any young idealist, and lived in South America and

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:14
Ecuador for eight years, working with environmental organizations

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:18
in the rain forest, I had this light bulb moment when I

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:21
realized that my gifts and my strengths was working with

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:25
students, and that if I could bring students to the Amazon, to

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:31
the rain forest, that they would see that education is a powerful

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:34
tool for social change. That's what brought me here, and I have

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:38
been working in student Global Social Justice educational

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:44
programming for the last 20 or so years, and what I found the

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:49
most helpful for me in my career, as I was working with

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:54
students doing these immersive project based travel programs,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:09:59
was Ken. Connecting with other educators like you all to learn

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:04
best practices and get that support to do this work, because

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:07
sometimes it can feel really lonely as an educator doing

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:10
something a little bit different. And when I worked in

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:14
higher ed and when I was at Sidwell, connecting with other

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:18
educators was the way that helped me grow in my career and

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:22
my profession, and I wanted to be able to give that back

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:25
through I seen the Independent Schools, experiential education

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:29
network and help other educators Connect. I'm a connector. I like

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:33
connecting people. How

Hiram Cuevas 00:10:35
much of an influence did your degree in

Hiram Cuevas 00:10:37
anthropology play in this journey anthropology gave

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:42
me the framework to think about

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:46
different cultures and how people connect across

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:48
difference. And so understanding that the way culture is

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:53
developed in Kenya or the way that culture is developed in the

Shoshanna Shumka 00:10:57
United States just gave me a framework for thinking about

Shoshanna Shumka 00:11:00
cross cultural communication and so that inclusive and openness

Shoshanna Shumka 00:11:07
in Isee, and I think is grounded in my background in

Shoshanna Shumka 00:11:11
anthropology.

Hiram Cuevas 00:11:12
I was an anthropology minor, so I

Hiram Cuevas 00:11:13
couldn't resist asking the question, great

Unknown 00:11:16
love anthropology.

Bill Stites 00:11:18
So for a number of years here at MKA, for well over

Bill Stites 00:11:22
a decade, I ran an Irish studies program with our Upper School.

Bill Stites 00:11:26
At the time our Upper School head of the department, and we

Bill Stites 00:11:29
spent an entire semester working with them and teaching with

Bill Stites 00:11:32
them, and led into this two week study around the country. We

Bill Stites 00:11:36
spent two weeks traveling abroad. We met with Ivan Cooper,

Bill Stites 00:11:40
who was head of the Bloody Sunday March up in Derry. We

Bill Stites 00:11:43
studied and worked with people in their various migration

Bill Stites 00:11:47
centers, so on and so forth. And one of the things that we did in

Bill Stites 00:11:51
part of that, the reason I was there, was we traveled around

Bill Stites 00:11:54
with laptops, digital video cameras, digital cameras, and we

Bill Stites 00:11:57
documented things. We recorded things. We recorded interviews.

Bill Stites 00:12:01
We did a lot of work, both in collecting resources as well as

Bill Stites 00:12:06
developing resources to, again, as you're saying, to share,

Bill Stites 00:12:09
connect, to get the word out. And that was probably in the

Bill Stites 00:12:13
early 2000s that we were doing that, given we're a technology

Bill Stites 00:12:17
based podcast here, what does the use of technology look like

Bill Stites 00:12:21
now within the context of the work that you're doing with the

Bill Stites 00:12:25
organization there. As

Shoshanna Shumka 00:12:26
you mentioned, Bill, it's so important to

Shoshanna Shumka 00:12:28
document that work, to demonstrate student learning,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:12:32
and there's some great partners that we work with. Un ruler is

Shoshanna Shumka 00:12:37
one of them. They are a platform where it's an online journal

Shoshanna Shumka 00:12:43
where students can document their learning, can share

Shoshanna Shumka 00:12:47
photographs and reflect on some of the learning, whether it's a

Shoshanna Shumka 00:12:51
travel program in Ireland or, you know, program in New York

Shoshanna Shumka 00:12:56
City, students document their learning. I have to say that,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:13:01
going back to the old school, notebook is still a piece of

Shoshanna Shumka 00:13:05
technology, right? Like a pen and paper is technology, and

Shoshanna Shumka 00:13:08
sometimes it's also really powerful to step away from

Shoshanna Shumka 00:13:15
digital technology and use analog technology and have

Shoshanna Shumka 00:13:18
students write in a journal reflect using longhand so

Shoshanna Shumka 00:13:23
there's different ways, depending on the situation.

Hiram Cuevas 00:13:26
I'm a huge proponent of journaling. I

Hiram Cuevas 00:13:29
really do love seeing what students can produce in recent

Hiram Cuevas 00:13:33
years, because we talk about post COVID frequently on the

Hiram Cuevas 00:13:36
pod. Have you noticed a decline in the ability for students to

Hiram Cuevas 00:13:41
be able to journal in the way that they used to do pre COVID

Hiram Cuevas 00:13:46
as a result of them being so involved with digital

Hiram Cuevas 00:13:51
technologies that it makes it more difficult to actually

Hiram Cuevas 00:13:54
capture what they're thinking about. I think

Shoshanna Shumka 00:13:58
students, when given the opportunity to write

Shoshanna Shumka 00:14:01
and journal and given a designated space and time away

Shoshanna Shumka 00:14:07
from a device, they're just fine at journaling. I think it's

Shoshanna Shumka 00:14:12
really about making the time and space to allow them that time to

Shoshanna Shumka 00:14:16
journal and to sit with their thoughts and to reflect. So I

Shoshanna Shumka 00:14:19
think they can still do it if we provide that opportunity for

Shoshanna Shumka 00:14:22
them.

Ashley Cross 00:14:23
So Shoshana Isee runs a couple of really

Ashley Cross 00:14:26
interesting programs. I kind of shift us for just a minute and

Ashley Cross 00:14:29
talk about your winter and summer institutes. So first of

Ashley Cross 00:14:33
all, can you give us an overview of those and tell us a little

Ashley Cross 00:14:37
bit about what makes those special? And then I'd like to

Ashley Cross 00:14:39
tell the listeners about my connection

Unknown 00:14:41
with that. So we run Deep Learning Institutes.

Shoshanna Shumka 00:14:46
We run a summer institute for classroom

Shoshanna Shumka 00:14:49
teachers and a winter Institute for program directors. And I

Shoshanna Shumka 00:14:53
love Ashley that you were with us in Colorado at the Dawson

Shoshanna Shumka 00:14:57
School last summer. And what's unique. Think about them is that

Shoshanna Shumka 00:15:01
we learn about experiential education by doing experiential

Shoshanna Shumka 00:15:06
education. So it's less talking, less sage on a stage, and more

Shoshanna Shumka 00:15:12
guide on the side, and we are engaged in practicing the Kolb

Shoshanna Shumka 00:15:17
experiential learning cycle, reflecting on it, building

Shoshanna Shumka 00:15:21
relationships, building community, and getting out in

Shoshanna Shumka 00:15:25
the place, wherever we are at the institute, either in

Shoshanna Shumka 00:15:28
Boulder, Colorado, where we'll be in June, and Baltimore,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:15:33
Maryland, where we'll be next January, we experience

Shoshanna Shumka 00:15:37
experiential education in action by being in the student's shoes

Shoshanna Shumka 00:15:40
and getting to experience what a student might experience. That a

Shoshanna Shumka 00:15:42
student might experience.

Ashley Cross 00:15:44
That's very cool. So now Shoshana had invited

Ashley Cross 00:15:47
Atlas to help facilitate one of these, and so they have one on

Ashley Cross 00:15:51
maker spaces, and so I was there as the CO facilitator, and it

Ashley Cross 00:15:55
was my first experience with Isee, and I was really excited

Ashley Cross 00:15:58
to be there. Jeff and I had spent all year kind of prepping

Ashley Cross 00:16:01
for it and planning we had touch base, but I have to tell you,

Ashley Cross 00:16:04
Shoshana, when we got there, one of the first things that we did

Ashley Cross 00:16:07
was we went outside, which I loved. It was a beautiful

Ashley Cross 00:16:10
morning at Dawson, and we got in a circle, and Jeff was standing

Ashley Cross 00:16:14
next to me, and he took his shoes off, and I kind of looked

Ashley Cross 00:16:17
at him, and I was not quite prepared for this, exactly what

Ashley Cross 00:16:21
I was getting into. And then I looked around, and Jeff was not

Ashley Cross 00:16:24
the only one that took his shoes off. Everybody took their shoes

Ashley Cross 00:16:27
off, and they had their feet in the grass. And so I was like,

Ashley Cross 00:16:29
Okay, I'm in. I'm doing this. And so it was just a lovely

Ashley Cross 00:16:33
experience. It was a really reflective way to start the

Ashley Cross 00:16:37
morning. Literally ground it in the grass. It was a beautiful

Ashley Cross 00:16:41
place. We had a wonderful cohort that went through that

Ashley Cross 00:16:44
experience with us. But then the other thing, in addition to our

Ashley Cross 00:16:47
learning in the small group in the maker space, with this very

Ashley Cross 00:16:50
hands on, we came together as a larger group, and we did again,

Ashley Cross 00:16:53
more about the cold learning cycle and more about

Ashley Cross 00:16:56
experiential learning and how they could take it back to their

Ashley Cross 00:16:58
schools. But then we also had the opportunity to explore the

Ashley Cross 00:17:02
area, and that was really fascinating, too. Through this

Ashley Cross 00:17:05
process, you guys took us up into, you know, the mountain

Ashley Cross 00:17:09
area we were talking about conservation, we did a hike, and

Ashley Cross 00:17:12
we actually went with a local expert who led us through. And

Ashley Cross 00:17:15
it was very powerful. So I appreciate the opportunity to

Ashley Cross 00:17:17
get involved in that. It was something that I really enjoyed.

Ashley Cross 00:17:21
Can you tell us a little bit more for our listeners that

Ashley Cross 00:17:23
maybe aren't familiar with this? I think this is a great

Ashley Cross 00:17:25
takeaway, more about that colds learning cycle. What is that?

Ashley Cross 00:17:30
Why is that so central to the institutes?

Shoshanna Shumka 00:17:33
Yeah, thanks, actually, and I love that you

Shoshanna Shumka 00:17:35
were there, creating the inaugural Makerspace pedagogy

Shoshanna Shumka 00:17:40
cohort, and going back just reflecting what you said. I

Shoshanna Shumka 00:17:43
mean, the institutes are soulful experiences where we invite

Shoshanna Shumka 00:17:47
vulnerability, and yes, we invited everyone to take their

Shoshanna Shumka 00:17:50
shoes off and feel nature, and we do circle up in the morning

Shoshanna Shumka 00:17:54
to model what you might do with your students. How do you ground

Shoshanna Shumka 00:17:58
your students in nature and in place? So I love that you were

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:01
able to experience that. At iseem, we draw on the Kolb

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:06
experiential learning cycle, which was developed by a couple,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:11
David and Alice Kolb, who were psychologists, and they

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:14
researched and observed how people learn, what is their

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:18
cognitive process as they're learning, and what they realize

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:23
is that people learn through experience, and that this

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:27
learning is not linear, it's cyclical. And so they describe

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:31
the cold experiential learning cycle, which consists of direct

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:36
experience. There's an experience that you have, like

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:40
standing in the graph that could be an experience, you reflect on

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:43
that experience, you analyze it, and then experiment, you apply

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:50
it to future learning. And I think that is really the

Shoshanna Shumka 00:18:53
essential piece, is taking your newly learned knowledge and

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:00
applying it to real world situations, so that reinforces

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:03
your understanding. So I'm sure, as technology educators, you do

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:08
this all the time, right? Students learn and then they

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:12
apply it to another situation. How might this work in a

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:15
different application? So there are many models. It's not just

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:19
the Cole of experiential learning cycle. We find it

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:21
useful, but you might find that there are other similar models

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:26
that explain how people learn, the scientific method, the

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:31
writing process, the design thinking process. There are lots

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:34
of ways to describe these processes, but we've stuck to

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:37
the cold cycle. And I actually have a funny story one of our

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:40
schools, one of our member schools in Texas, who we did

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:44
some consulting work with for a full year, and we did a lot of

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:46
programs and workshops and professional learning with their

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:49
faculty. They have embraced David and Alice's cold

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:53
experiential learning cycle, and they've turned it into a verb.

Shoshanna Shumka 00:19:57
So they say, Are you Cole being. Like, are you holding that in

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:01
your classroom? And I love how they're constantly thinking,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:04
Okay, have we included the entire learning cycle in our

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:09
lesson planning? Because doing one without the other, you don't

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:13
get the complete learning if you reflect, but you haven't had an

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:16
experience, there's really nothing to reflect on. But if

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:19
you try to do the abstract conceptualization, or the

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:23
knowledge building piece, without the students have any

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:25
experience of it, it's hard for them to really absorb that and

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:29
really understand what the lesson is about.

Hiram Cuevas 00:20:33
Most of the programs, I believe, as I've

Hiram Cuevas 00:20:35
read, are partnering with teachers. Is there a student

Hiram Cuevas 00:20:38
component as well? Do you have a blended environment as well.

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:41
We are full professional development,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:44
working with teachers. Yep, we work with teachers, educators,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:47
administrators, heads of school, academic deans, directors of

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:52
global learning, outdoor education. We are a professional

Shoshanna Shumka 00:20:56
network. But I will say a caveat to that is in that networking.

Shoshanna Shumka 00:21:01
Sometimes schools connect and have their students work

Shoshanna Shumka 00:21:05
together, right? So, if they're in New Jersey, and they find

Shoshanna Shumka 00:21:08
other schools that are doing sustainability, and they have an

Shoshanna Shumka 00:21:10
Earth Day conference, you know, a student led Climate Change

Shoshanna Shumka 00:21:15
Conference, then the students will come together. And

Shoshanna Shumka 00:21:17
oftentimes they make those connections through Isee, one

Bill Stites 00:21:21
of the things I'm actually curious about, just to

Bill Stites 00:21:24
hear a little bit more about, because, to be completely frank,

Bill Stites 00:21:26
I don't know anything about, is the work that Atlas did with

Bill Stites 00:21:29
you, when you were talking about about that inaugural work around

Bill Stites 00:21:33
the makerspace and those areas, what did that look like within

Bill Stites 00:21:36
the context of the work that you're doing? Ashley,

Unknown 00:21:39
do you want to do that one sure I can start. So

Ashley Cross 00:21:42
I think this began with a conversation between

Ashley Cross 00:21:45
Kristina and Shoshana, and my work for my dissertation was

Ashley Cross 00:21:50
actually an exploratory study on maker spaces, and so they looped

Ashley Cross 00:21:54
me into the conversation. So I spent, like I said, about a year

Ashley Cross 00:21:58
planning with Jeff, who runs the makerspace there at the Dawson

Ashley Cross 00:22:02
school. And again, we were looking at, what does this

Ashley Cross 00:22:06
experience look like when we bring people together? So it was

Ashley Cross 00:22:09
really interesting, because there's not a whole lot of

Ashley Cross 00:22:11
programming for people who run maker spaces. There have been

Ashley Cross 00:22:15
events like constructing modern knowledge in the past that have

Ashley Cross 00:22:18
been really addressed that constructivism approach to

Ashley Cross 00:22:21
making in schools. But this was a really cool thing that focused

Ashley Cross 00:22:26
a lot on the logistics too. You know, we have all of these

Ashley Cross 00:22:28
projects. How are you going to organize these even solving,

Ashley Cross 00:22:31
like, issues of, how are you going to store all of these

Ashley Cross 00:22:34
student projects that happen in the space? So a lot of the

Ashley Cross 00:22:36
conversations that was bringing these people together that are

Ashley Cross 00:22:39
much like tech leaders, very isolated in their own roles at

Ashley Cross 00:22:43
their school, and bringing them together and giving them space

Ashley Cross 00:22:46
to connect, to talk about really innovative projects and work

Ashley Cross 00:22:49
that they're doing, again, community partnerships and

Ashley Cross 00:22:53
incorporating more of professional development for

Ashley Cross 00:22:56
them. How can they bring in this reflective Cole cycle, things

Ashley Cross 00:22:59
like that? So we really set the stage for what that could look

Ashley Cross 00:23:03
like in future years of the institute. It kind of set up a

Ashley Cross 00:23:06
framework bill, I would say, for what participation looks like

Ashley Cross 00:23:10
for a makerspace cohort within the icing Summer Institute. What

Shoshanna Shumka 00:23:16
I loved about it was framing Makerspace as a

Shoshanna Shumka 00:23:20
pedagogy, and connecting that learning to the cold,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:23:24
experiential learning cycle, so that the reflective practice, so

Shoshanna Shumka 00:23:28
that tying it to, you know, students existing knowledge, or

Shoshanna Shumka 00:23:31
how can they apply it to real world situations, maybe the

Shoshanna Shumka 00:23:35
maker space is connected to a community based organization

Shoshanna Shumka 00:23:39
that's looking for a solution for something, and so doing

Shoshanna Shumka 00:23:43
something in the classroom that can then be used in the real

Shoshanna Shumka 00:23:46
world. I really love that connection. And the other thing

Shoshanna Shumka 00:23:49
that I loved about the makerspace educators cohort is

Shoshanna Shumka 00:23:53
that it's also part of the holistic Summer Institute for

Shoshanna Shumka 00:23:58
experiential education, you know, pedagogy and practice in

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:01
the classroom. And so there were math teachers, science teachers,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:04
English teachers, global languages, history, etc. And so

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:08
while there's some time spent in your specific discipline group,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:12
there's also time for interacting with everyone. And

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:16
so there's spaces for someone who's in the maker space to

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:20
connect with the English teacher and see, you know, how could you

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:23
do English and makerspace, or how could you connect history

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:26
and Makerspace pedagogy? So I really loved that it had that

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:29
interdisciplinary component, as well as time to revise a lesson

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:35
to think about, you know, how you might connect this to your

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:37
curriculum? And I saw the educators playing, building

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:41
things and feeling what it feels like to be in a student's shoes

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:45
to what it's like to be a student to then bring that

Shoshanna Shumka 00:24:48
feeling back into RE, energized and inspired teaching.

Hiram Cuevas 00:24:54
What's interesting is on this pod, we often talk

Hiram Cuevas 00:24:56
about AI, and I'm curious. Do you see this pedagogical

Hiram Cuevas 00:25:01
approach facilitating AI use in a practical sense for our

Hiram Cuevas 00:25:06
schools that is experiential? I

Shoshanna Shumka 00:25:09
think that AI can be really useful in a lot of

Shoshanna Shumka 00:25:13
different settings at schools. I'm all for it. If schools want

Shoshanna Shumka 00:25:17
to create AI policies and teachers can use it to come up

Shoshanna Shumka 00:25:22
with the rubric and help lesson plan designing. And I also see

Shoshanna Shumka 00:25:28
experiential education as a bit of an antidote to full AI

Shoshanna Shumka 00:25:34
reliance. And so when I'm talking about analog, when I'm

Shoshanna Shumka 00:25:38
talking about going outside the classroom, I'm talking about

Shoshanna Shumka 00:25:41
human relationships. I want us to also embrace the human

Shoshanna Shumka 00:25:46
aspects and help students learn how to talk to people who are

Shoshanna Shumka 00:25:50
different than they are, or work collaboratively in teams to

Shoshanna Shumka 00:25:54
build their leadership skills. And this is what experiential

Shoshanna Shumka 00:25:59
education does when done well, it really emphasizes the human

Shoshanna Shumka 00:26:04
parts of learning. So AI is fine, and let's also make sure

Shoshanna Shumka 00:26:10
that we get students out into the world and that we're more

Shoshanna Shumka 00:26:12
human.

Unknown 00:26:14
So the pedagogy

Hiram Cuevas 00:26:15
is really a giant pause button to really make sure

Hiram Cuevas 00:26:18
that we get the kids outside and doing things. I love it.

Hiram Cuevas 00:26:22
Absolutely

Ashley Cross 00:26:22
love it. I think that'll be interesting to see

Ashley Cross 00:26:25
how these tools continue to evolve over time. So my husband,

Ashley Cross 00:26:30
he's one that has all the latest shiny things. He's got the meta

Ashley Cross 00:26:33
Ray Ban glasses, and so last week, he keeps playing around

Ashley Cross 00:26:36
with it, and he's like, Oh, look, in real time, it will

Ashley Cross 00:26:39
translate in my ears, if someone is speaking to me in Spanish,

Ashley Cross 00:26:43
and it will tell me what they're saying. And it does this for

Ashley Cross 00:26:46
multiple languages. So, you know, maybe there's tools like

Ashley Cross 00:26:48
this that can help break down language barriers and help us

Ashley Cross 00:26:52
really have more human connections, where the device

Ashley Cross 00:26:57
kind of disappears a little bit into the background. But I'm

Ashley Cross 00:26:59
with Russell, you know, it's all got to be done in a very

Ashley Cross 00:27:02
intentional way. Shoshana, I wanted to ask you, too, for our

Ashley Cross 00:27:06
listeners, if they're thinking about practical takeaways from

Ashley Cross 00:27:09
this podcast, and they're saying, Wow, okay, this all

Ashley Cross 00:27:12
sounds really interesting, how might we bring some of this to

Ashley Cross 00:27:15
our school, maybe at a small scale? Do you have any advice

Ashley Cross 00:27:18
for our listeners how they can start taking advantage of maybe

Ashley Cross 00:27:21
some local community partners.

Shoshanna Shumka 00:27:24
You know, I think most of our schools have

Shoshanna Shumka 00:27:26
in our mission public service or being good stewards and good

Shoshanna Shumka 00:27:31
members of our community. So community engagement, service

Shoshanna Shumka 00:27:35
learning, this is one of the strong pillars of experiential

Shoshanna Shumka 00:27:39
education, and there are often nonprofit partners that are

Shoshanna Shumka 00:27:45
serving in the community, that schools can partner with really

Shoshanna Shumka 00:27:48
easily. We want to make sure that it is a mutually beneficial

Shoshanna Shumka 00:27:52
partnership, that there's equitable exchange of knowledge

Shoshanna Shumka 00:27:56
and resources. But there are many, many nonprofits out there

Shoshanna Shumka 00:28:02
who are willing and able to partner with schools and

Shoshanna Shumka 00:28:07
students can contribute their time or unique skills at that

Shoshanna Shumka 00:28:12
organization. So, for example, students might be able to help

Shoshanna Shumka 00:28:17
with marketing or web design, you know, using their computer

Shoshanna Shumka 00:28:21
programming skills or social media marketing to support an

Shoshanna Shumka 00:28:24
organization that might be serving in the community and

Shoshanna Shumka 00:28:28
support their mission. That way, that's great.

Ashley Cross 00:28:32
So kind of shifting again, you guys have

Ashley Cross 00:28:34
launched something brand new. So can you tell us a little bit

Ashley Cross 00:28:38
about the capitalist Institute? What that is, how it came about.

Ashley Cross 00:28:41
What are you guys working on right now? This is our first

Shoshanna Shumka 00:28:45
new institute that we've developed in 10

Shoshanna Shumka 00:28:47
years. So it's really exciting, and so grateful to the EE Ford

Shoshanna Shumka 00:28:52
Foundation for giving us the seed money to develop this new

Shoshanna Shumka 00:28:57
institute. What we heard from our member schools is that they

Shoshanna Shumka 00:29:01
wanted more support in bringing change to their institutions.

Shoshanna Shumka 00:29:07
Change is hard, and we also know that this kind of learning, this

Shoshanna Shumka 00:29:12
place based, whole student, environmental, focused, world

Shoshanna Shumka 00:29:17
focused, global learning, focused education, is really

Shoshanna Shumka 00:29:21
impactful, and that is what our students need to thrive in this

Shoshanna Shumka 00:29:25
world today, and it's really hard to make those changes in

Shoshanna Shumka 00:29:28
traditional schools. So our members asked us for an

Shoshanna Shumka 00:29:34
institute like this, the catalyst, which is a spark, a

Shoshanna Shumka 00:29:39
bringing a new idea to a school with a leadership team equipped

Shoshanna Shumka 00:29:45
with the skills and ability to implement these changes. So it's

Shoshanna Shumka 00:29:51
not only going to be talking about deep learning, like a deep

Shoshanna Shumka 00:29:55
learning intimate retreat, about experiential education. Pete.

Shoshanna Shumka 00:30:00
Aggie, we're bringing it into the classroom, right? So we're

Shoshanna Shumka 00:30:03
talking about assessment. How do you assess the learning? How do

Shoshanna Shumka 00:30:05
you build faculty buy in? And we are going to have a whole unit

Shoshanna Shumka 00:30:11
on leadership development, and you're developing your

Shoshanna Shumka 00:30:14
leadership skills. And how do you as a leadership team, bring

Shoshanna Shumka 00:30:19
everyone on board. Everyone's happy about this. Everyone is

Shoshanna Shumka 00:30:23
excited and willing to do something a little bit

Shoshanna Shumka 00:30:28
different. So one of the main differences at the catalyst

Shoshanna Shumka 00:30:31
Institute, not only is it smaller and we bring in outside

Shoshanna Shumka 00:30:34
expertise on these issues, we have a year long coaching cohort

Shoshanna Shumka 00:30:40
to support the school leaders in implementing their action plan

Shoshanna Shumka 00:30:44
that they come up with during the catalyst.

Bill Stites 00:30:49
What are some of the things that you look for in

Bill Stites 00:30:51
schools, or you talk to about schools to making this

Bill Stites 00:30:53
relationship between you and them successful? Like, what does

Bill Stites 00:30:57
a school need to do to set themselves up for success in the

Bill Stites 00:31:01
work and what you're doing.

Unknown 00:31:03
We're looking for schools

Shoshanna Shumka 00:31:04
that are open minded and committed to doing

Shoshanna Shumka 00:31:10
things a little bit differently. You know, experiential education

Shoshanna Shumka 00:31:13
can be messy. I mean, you see this in the maker space. So

Shoshanna Shumka 00:31:16
being open to the messiness and also having your school culture,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:31:21
having the people both at the top, the upper level

Shoshanna Shumka 00:31:25
administration, and everyone who's actually doing the

Shoshanna Shumka 00:31:28
learning on the ground, the teachers that everyone is

Shoshanna Shumka 00:31:31
everyone is a strong word. Let's say that there is a mass of

Shoshanna Shumka 00:31:36
people who are willing to try something new, and so that

Shoshanna Shumka 00:31:40
openness and willingness to try something new,

Ashley Cross 00:31:44
I think that's really, really fascinating,

Ashley Cross 00:31:46
because we see the same thing here at Atlas a lot of people,

Ashley Cross 00:31:50
even when they go back and they get, like, advanced degrees,

Ashley Cross 00:31:53
let's say that they've gone back and they have a master's degree.

Ashley Cross 00:31:55
A lot of times they actually don't have leadership training.

Ashley Cross 00:31:59
A lot of these things talk about theory, but when you get down to

Ashley Cross 00:32:03
people, it's a lot messier. And so having cohorts like that and

Ashley Cross 00:32:09
groups that can kind of guide them where they can have

Ashley Cross 00:32:11
conversations, it's really, really important. We do that

Ashley Cross 00:32:13
here at Atlas a lot, too, through the Leadership

Ashley Cross 00:32:16
Institute, but also just through our content and programming we

Ashley Cross 00:32:20
try to provide. So I definitely see that need as well. I'm

Ashley Cross 00:32:23
really glad you guys are doing that. Can you tell us a little

Ashley Cross 00:32:26
bit more about what you're excited about for this upcoming

Ashley Cross 00:32:31
year? We've kind of just almost wrapped it an academic school

Ashley Cross 00:32:34
year, and we're looking ahead at your programming, your different

Ashley Cross 00:32:38
things for icing, and it doesn't even have to be in the short

Ashley Cross 00:32:40
term. But Shoshana, what are you most excited about for I seen s

Ashley Cross 00:32:43
future?

Shoshanna Shumka 00:32:44
Well, I love this time when we come up to the

Shoshanna Shumka 00:32:47
end of the academic year and we try to practice what we preach.

Shoshanna Shumka 00:32:51
So we'll take the time over the summer to reflect, reflect on

Shoshanna Shumka 00:32:55
what went well, reflect on what we might do differently next

Shoshanna Shumka 00:32:58
year. And so we look at the survey feedback from our

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:02
attendees, and we do take some time over the summer to think

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:06
about what we might do. I am so excited about the catalyst

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:10
institute that is number one, launching this in October, and

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:15
I'm very excited to see where that goes and to see the

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:18
transformation that that will inspire in schools, and I am

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:22
really excited about the possibility of venturing beyond

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:26
independent schools. I come from the higher ed world, and I know

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:31
that experiential education is a pedagogy that works well for all

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:36
students, and someday, I really hope that we're able to build

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:41
our network and expand and bring schools in Beyond The

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:44
Independent School world, so that all students have the

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:47
opportunity to participate in these transformative

Shoshanna Shumka 00:33:50
experiences.

Unknown 00:33:52
We've

Ashley Cross 00:33:52
been talking about looking ahead a little bit, but

Ashley Cross 00:33:55
just a second ago, we talked about management, and actually,

Ashley Cross 00:33:57
let's kind of look back. If you could give advice to your

Ashley Cross 00:34:00
younger self or a new leader just starting out again, we

Ashley Cross 00:34:03
mentioned there's many of those out there, not only in the tech

Ashley Cross 00:34:06
world, like here at Atlas, but also across divisions at

Ashley Cross 00:34:09
independent schools. What advice do you have for somebody that's

Ashley Cross 00:34:14
getting started

Shoshanna Shumka 00:34:16
as I mentioned the beginning, the thing that's

Shoshanna Shumka 00:34:17
helped me the most in my leadership is to find other

Shoshanna Shumka 00:34:22
people in my profession who do similar work, so people that I

Shoshanna Shumka 00:34:26
can build community with and share my struggles and my

Shoshanna Shumka 00:34:29
challenges and also share wins and successes with that for me

Shoshanna Shumka 00:34:34
is so important in my career, and seeking out professional

Shoshanna Shumka 00:34:38
learning opportunities, going to the institutes, going to the

Shoshanna Shumka 00:34:41
conferences, connecting with folks. I found some of my best

Shoshanna Shumka 00:34:45
friends through going to some of these networks. And I even co

Shoshanna Shumka 00:34:50
authored a book with someone from, you know, a different

Shoshanna Shumka 00:34:53
school that we had met through these professional networks. But

Shoshanna Shumka 00:34:58
I would say, advice. Thanks to future leaders, is remembering

Shoshanna Shumka 00:35:02
that there are so many different ways to be a leader, leading

Shoshanna Shumka 00:35:06
with my heart is the way that I lead. And I think the world

Shoshanna Shumka 00:35:10
needs more leaders who lead with their heart.

Hiram Cuevas 00:35:14
So Shauna, in the spirit of creating these

Hiram Cuevas 00:35:16
relationships, is there a network specifically that

Hiram Cuevas 00:35:21
someone who may not be a member of ice scene who wants to get

Hiram Cuevas 00:35:24
connected. So for technology people, it has been Twitter for

Hiram Cuevas 00:35:29
many, many years. It's now moved on to ised, and now there are

Hiram Cuevas 00:35:34
all sorts of different venues for us to communicate with one

Hiram Cuevas 00:35:37
another. Is there a specific one that someone could get started,

Hiram Cuevas 00:35:42
so that they get the exposure, and then they can perhaps get in

Hiram Cuevas 00:35:46
contact with the icing community.

Shoshanna Shumka 00:35:49
I think the irony here is that we're not

Shoshanna Shumka 00:35:51
always the techie folks. The biggest platform I see

Shoshanna Shumka 00:35:55
experiential educators on is LinkedIn and connecting on

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:00
LinkedIn and sharing ideas. What have you seen that works in your

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:04
programming on LinkedIn? And I seen we have a Google group, and

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:09
that's one of the ways that our members communicate, is we just

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:11
say, Hey, what are you doing for this? And then 10 people will

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:15
respond and say, Oh, well, we use this, and it's pretty low

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:18
tech, but it's a great way for our members to connect. So look

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:23
for other experiential educators on LinkedIn, and maybe think

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:26
about joining Essie.

Hiram Cuevas 00:36:28
So would that Google group be available to non

Hiram Cuevas 00:36:31
members as well? It's

Ashley Cross 00:36:33
only for members. Okay, thank you. I mean, I think

Ashley Cross 00:36:36
you shared a lot, and for a school that's just starting its

Ashley Cross 00:36:39
journey on experiential education. You kind of talked a

Ashley Cross 00:36:42
little bit about where they can find some of those people. Any

Ashley Cross 00:36:45
other first steps that you'd recommend for them? Let's

Unknown 00:36:49
just talk to

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:50
another school about this. And they were

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:51
saying, Yeah, we'd like to do more experiential education. I

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:54
said, Well, how do you define experiential education? And they

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:57
were like, oh, yeah, we just talk about it, but we never

Shoshanna Shumka 00:36:59
really define it. So I think a first step would be as a school

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:03
community, to define experiential education on for

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:07
yourself. What do you mean when you say experiential education?

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:11
And it can even be a collaborative process where

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:14
people come up with that definition together. You can

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:16
pull from many different ones. We, I see and had spent some

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:19
time coming up with our own definition of experiential

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:22
education, but that could be a fun first step. When I imagine

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:26
these kinds of group processes, I picture flip charts and

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:29
markers or writing on the whiteboard and doing a

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:32
collaborative process. But looking at those resources,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:35
looking at I seen resources, there's a lot of other

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:38
organizations dedicated to specific strands of experiential

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:43
learning, so global learning, or community based learning,

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:47
service learning. There's different organizations. There's

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:49
some just dedicated to outdoor education. So I would check out

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:53
different organizations and see what's the best fit for your

Shoshanna Shumka 00:37:57
school. Shoshana.

Ashley Cross 00:37:57
This has been a really, really fun conversation.

Ashley Cross 00:38:00
I hope people have learned a lot about experiential education,

Ashley Cross 00:38:04
maybe what it is, how they can bring it to their school, a

Ashley Cross 00:38:06
little bit more about the cold cycle. And again, another just

Ashley Cross 00:38:09
really fantastic organization that serves the space icing. So

Ashley Cross 00:38:14
where can people go to learn more about icing or to connect

Ashley Cross 00:38:18
with you? You can go

Shoshanna Shumka 00:38:19
to our website. It's I seen info.com

Shoshanna Shumka 00:38:22
you can email our general staff email for general information

Shoshanna Shumka 00:38:27
staff. At, I seen info.com or you can email me. My direct

Shoshanna Shumka 00:38:31
email is Shoshana. That's two n's. At, I seen info.com I feel

Shoshanna Shumka 00:38:38
funny having a.com URL because I seen as a 501, c3, nonprofit

Shoshanna Shumka 00:38:43
organization. And I don't know, 20 years ago when the founders

Shoshanna Shumka 00:38:46
created the art.com domain. I just, you know, when I started

Shoshanna Shumka 00:38:50
seven years ago, I just didn't been too busy building is seen

Shoshanna Shumka 00:38:53
to change the URL over to a.org but we are a nonprofit

Shoshanna Shumka 00:38:57
organization. It's

Bill Stites 00:39:00
interesting to call that out, because I looked at it

Bill Stites 00:39:02
as well and I thought the same thing. I was like, that's

Bill Stites 00:39:04
interesting. I know one of these

Unknown 00:39:06
days I'll change it. Well, we will be sure

Ashley Cross 00:39:08
to include all of those things in our show notes.

Ashley Cross 00:39:11
Shoshana, thank you so much for coming on with us today and for

Ashley Cross 00:39:14
sharing with the Atlas community. We appreciate you.

Ashley Cross 00:39:17
Thank you

Shoshanna Shumka 00:39:18
so much for having me. Really an honor.

Peter Frank 00:39:21
This has been talking technology with Atlas,

Peter Frank 00:39:24
produced by the Association of Technology Leaders in

Peter Frank 00:39:26
Independent Schools. For more information about Atlas and

Peter Frank 00:39:30
Atlas membership, please visit theatlas.org if you enjoyed this

Peter Frank 00:39:34
discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and share this

Peter Frank 00:39:38
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Peter Frank 00:39:40
community. Thank you for listening. You.