Relationships and Roles: Peter Antupit on Leadership in Independent School Technology
Join us as we welcome Peter Antupit, CIO of Crystal Springs Upland School, to explore strategies for managing expectations, fostering relationships across departments, and navigating the evolving landscape of technology in education.
Resources
- Crystal Springs Uplands School
- ATLIS Leadership Institute
- More than 870 school technology job descriptions -- can we share? YES
- Flint, AI tool for schools
Transcript
Peter Frank 00:00:02
Phil, welcome to Talking Technology with ATLIS,
Peter Frank 00:00:05
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
Peter Frank 00:00:08
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Peter Frank 00:00:12
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
Peter Frank 00:00:15
special guests from the Independent School community,
Peter Frank 00:00:17
and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Peter Frank 00:00:21
And now please welcome your host. Kristina Lewellen,
Christina Lewellen 00:00:25
Hello everyone, and welcome back to
Christina Lewellen 00:00:27
talking technology with Atlas. I'm Kristina Lewellen, the
Christina Lewellen 00:00:30
President and CEO of the Association of Technology
Christina Lewellen 00:00:32
Leaders in Independent Schools.
Bill Stites 00:00:34
And I am Bill Stites, the Director of
Bill Stites 00:00:36
Technology at Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New
Bill Stites 00:00:39
Jersey.
Hiram Cuevas 00:00:40
And I'm Hiram Cuevas, Director of Information
Hiram Cuevas 00:00:42
Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher school in
Hiram Cuevas 00:00:45
Richmond, Virginia.
Christina Lewellen 00:00:46
Hello, gentlemen. How are you today?
Christina Lewellen 00:00:48
Well,
Hiram Cuevas 00:00:49
winding down my spring break here, but you know
Hiram Cuevas 00:00:52
it's
Christina Lewellen 00:00:52
all good, yeah, tell me a little bit about
Christina Lewellen 00:00:54
your spring breaks. So do you guys each get like, a week off,
Christina Lewellen 00:00:57
and what did you do with it? At
Bill Stites 00:01:00
MKA, the school is closed for two weeks, so all the
Bill Stites 00:01:02
faculty and students are out for the two weeks, but in on the IT
Bill Stites 00:01:06
side of the house. And if you're a 12 month employee, as we are
Bill Stites 00:01:10
here, you have one week off and you have to work one week. So
Bill Stites 00:01:14
you can pick and choose and coordinate that. And it's kind
Bill Stites 00:01:17
of like our mini summers. We try to get as much done in two weeks
Bill Stites 00:01:20
as possible. It's like project time. You've got stuff going on,
Bill Stites 00:01:23
you're running from here to there, but it's a good time to
Bill Stites 00:01:26
get stuff done, because it gets you a head start on the summer
Bill Stites 00:01:28
in some cases, or allows you to pick up on areas where you've
Bill Stites 00:01:32
may have missed something that you need to get to just to close
Bill Stites 00:01:35
out the school year.
Christina Lewellen 00:01:36
Yeah, sort of like a lingering To Do List
Christina Lewellen 00:01:38
sort of thing. Yeah, 100%
Hiram Cuevas 00:01:40
that's a really interesting schedule. Do all the
Hiram Cuevas 00:01:43
local schools, in terms of athletics and whatnot, have a
Hiram Cuevas 00:01:46
similar two week hiatus in the spring? No,
Bill Stites 00:01:49
it's mostly the independence, but for the
Bill Stites 00:01:51
students and for the families, there's like a family week, and
Bill Stites 00:01:54
then there's like a sports week or a Travel Week, where we will
Bill Stites 00:01:58
do international trips or trips around the US that we might do
Bill Stites 00:02:02
that relate to some of our academic programs. And then
Bill Stites 00:02:05
there is an athletics week. So if you are participating in a
Bill Stites 00:02:07
sport, and that sport in particular, maybe they travel
Bill Stites 00:02:10
some of our teams go down your way down to Virginia, to the
Bill Stites 00:02:14
Carolinas. I can remember with Sean going down to Florida for
Bill Stites 00:02:18
baseball. So there are different things like that. And again,
Bill Stites 00:02:21
those don't line up necessarily with the public schools in the
Bill Stites 00:02:25
area. A lot of the independents are along the same line, but
Bill Stites 00:02:28
most of the seasons aren't starting until everyone gets
Bill Stites 00:02:32
back and we're in it, so we time it out that way. It's all part
Bill Stites 00:02:35
of the calendaring process, which, as we know, calendaring
Bill Stites 00:02:39
is a four letter word in most schools, and it definitely keeps
Bill Stites 00:02:43
things fun and interesting Absolutely. Yeah,
Christina Lewellen 00:02:46
there's AI tools for that. How about you?
Christina Lewellen 00:02:48
Hiram, what do you do on spring break? We
Hiram Cuevas 00:02:51
have had years and years of my wife and I having
Hiram Cuevas 00:02:53
separate spring breaks. She works for a Catholic High
Hiram Cuevas 00:02:57
School, and so they actually have spring break when it spring
Hiram Cuevas 00:03:00
closer to Easter. So I did a staycation with my daughter,
Hiram Cuevas 00:03:04
who's back from Virginia Tech, and while she slept in, I have
Hiram Cuevas 00:03:09
been doing tons and tons and tons of yard work, which has
Hiram Cuevas 00:03:12
been fabulous because I've been catching up on some books, some
Hiram Cuevas 00:03:16
audio books, been having some fun going to the dump on a
Hiram Cuevas 00:03:19
regular basis to clear out all this winter brush that has been
Hiram Cuevas 00:03:23
left behind from all these storms. The
Christina Lewellen 00:03:25
weather has been cooperating in Virginia. I
Christina Lewellen 00:03:26
know that we had another Atlas board level meeting this week,
Christina Lewellen 00:03:31
and Hiram is like, Yeah, I'm here, but I'm gardening. I'm in
Christina Lewellen 00:03:34
my yard, so I'm gonna not be on camera. I gotta respect that
Christina Lewellen 00:03:38
you're at least joining meetings during your spring break. So
Christina Lewellen 00:03:40
thanks for that. Your dedication to the Atlas community. Well,
Christina Lewellen 00:03:45
today, you guys, we are welcoming a good friend of our
Christina Lewellen 00:03:48
community. Peter, anti pit, you are the CIO of Crystal Springs
Christina Lewellen 00:03:52
upland school joining us from the West Coast. Peter, how are
Christina Lewellen 00:03:55
you today?
Unknown 00:03:56
Doing well, thanks enjoying a little bit of rain,
Unknown 00:04:00
which is nice for us, but I already missed the sun, and it's
Unknown 00:04:02
only been 24 hours of drizzle. Oh
Christina Lewellen 00:04:05
my gosh, Californians, they missed the
Christina Lewellen 00:04:07
sun after one day. I
Unknown 00:04:09
am so spoiled. My blood is so thin,
Christina Lewellen 00:04:13
it's bad. So what's your spring break like
Christina Lewellen 00:04:16
out there?
Peter Antupit 00:04:17
We've just come off what we call a balance
Peter Antupit 00:04:19
break, where kids were actually off for two days. So they had a
Peter Antupit 00:04:22
four day weekend. We had a comment writing day, so faculty
Peter Antupit 00:04:26
were basically gone. Administrative staff was doing
Peter Antupit 00:04:28
stuff on site. Tuesday was a PD day, so we had like, this mini
Peter Antupit 00:04:31
break for kids. But we do, like Bill we do two weeks later on,
Peter Antupit 00:04:35
and we do international travel trips and things like that. And
Peter Antupit 00:04:39
like Hiram, my wife and I almost never get the same break. She's
Peter Antupit 00:04:42
also a teacher, so all the joys doing lots of projects. We're
Peter Antupit 00:04:46
excited for our spring break. We are renovating 100 year old
Peter Antupit 00:04:50
mansion that, of course, it is in the basement of as well as it
Peter Antupit 00:04:54
always is, yeah, usually. So we're moving over office. Is
Peter Antupit 00:05:00
over our spring break, so that's exciting. We'll squeeze
Peter Antupit 00:05:03
everything in. It's a great purge opportunity. So a little
Peter Antupit 00:05:06
bit like Hiram, just like getting rid of stuff. And I'm
Peter Antupit 00:05:09
the worst. I'm like, we're gonna need that adapter. And the guys
Peter Antupit 00:05:13
still look at me, like, No, we won't just get rid of the
Peter Antupit 00:05:15
adapters. And if we do, we'll buy it on eBay, just let it go.
Christina Lewellen 00:05:20
So Peter, tell us a little bit about your
Christina Lewellen 00:05:22
path you are now the CIO. Let's start with your school too. In
Christina Lewellen 00:05:26
case folks don't know about the school that you serve, tell us a
Christina Lewellen 00:05:28
little bit about that and how long you've been there. But then
Christina Lewellen 00:05:31
let's also talk about your journey and how you got to where
Christina Lewellen 00:05:33
you are today. So
Peter Antupit 00:05:35
Crystal Springs, upland school, affectionately
Peter Antupit 00:05:37
known as crystal is a six to 12 school. We were one campus with
Peter Antupit 00:05:42
about 350 kids. We're between San Francisco and San Jose day
Peter Antupit 00:05:46
school, college prep, 612, and we split off into two campuses
Peter Antupit 00:05:52
in 2017, so got to be part of that amazing ground up
Peter Antupit 00:05:56
construction project of an entire campus California,
Peter Antupit 00:06:00
Silicon Valley land is tight, so it's nine acres. Is spacious,
Peter Antupit 00:06:04
nine or 10 acres. So we are squeezing about 220 kids into
Peter Antupit 00:06:09
our new middle school campus, and it's not really squeezed at
Peter Antupit 00:06:12
all. And then we now have 350 just nine to 12 kids on our
Peter Antupit 00:06:16
Upper School campus here in Hillsboro. It's a great school.
Peter Antupit 00:06:19
I love it. I've been here 12 ish years. I started in 2012 we did
Peter Antupit 00:06:24
a little wrap around, around, sort of our senior leaders and D
Peter Antupit 00:06:27
level folks. And I'm now more tenured than I ever thought I
Peter Antupit 00:06:31
was, but that's great. You know, a bunch of different roles here.
Peter Antupit 00:06:35
I am an advisor, club, mentor ish, but I actually don't do
Peter Antupit 00:06:39
anything except take attendance, which is the best kind of
Peter Antupit 00:06:42
mentoring for what they need right now. The highlight of my
Peter Antupit 00:06:45
job is actually advising. I've been advising ninth and 10th
Peter Antupit 00:06:48
graders, and this year, had the opportunity to advise co advise
Peter Antupit 00:06:52
11th graders, and I'll see them like through 12th grade. And
Peter Antupit 00:06:55
it's really great. It's such a highlight to actually be with
Peter Antupit 00:06:58
kids in a low stakes kind of environment, I've been out of
Peter Antupit 00:07:02
the classroom for 27 years, or something like that. What did
Peter Antupit 00:07:06
you teach? I started my journey at the landmark school at
Peter Antupit 00:07:09
Massachusetts, a school for dyslexics. I was there for seven
Peter Antupit 00:07:13
years, and I taught wood shop, I taught math, I taught English, I
Peter Antupit 00:07:17
even taught a social skills class. It's a residential
Peter Antupit 00:07:21
school. So as a residential team leader, also that was
Peter Antupit 00:07:24
foundational to everything that was much more valuable than
Peter Antupit 00:07:28
college was. I mean, that was like real life learning. It was
Peter Antupit 00:07:32
amazing. And I think I'd bring all of that working with neuro
Peter Antupit 00:07:36
diverse students to everything I do.
Christina Lewellen 00:07:38
Yeah, I bet it's hard to leave that behind
Christina Lewellen 00:07:40
once you know those skills and, yeah, what did you go to college
Christina Lewellen 00:07:43
for? I mean, like, was this, like, part of a surprising
Christina Lewellen 00:07:45
journey for you? You ended up teaching everything?
Peter Antupit 00:07:49
Yeah, so it wasn't. I went to school in
Peter Antupit 00:07:52
middle of New York State, a small school called Hobart
Peter Antupit 00:07:54
College. Hobart, William Smith colleges, small liberal arts
Peter Antupit 00:07:58
school.
Christina Lewellen 00:07:58
I know that school I grew up in Western New
Christina Lewellen 00:08:00
York. There you go. I went to SUNY Geneseo and Rochester
Christina Lewellen 00:08:04
Institute of Technology for my master's degree. So I know
Christina Lewellen 00:08:07
Hobart.
Peter Antupit 00:08:08
It's kind of the mud belt. I don't know what else
Peter Antupit 00:08:11
to call it. Yeah,
Christina Lewellen 00:08:12
it really is. It's very gray and brown,
Christina Lewellen 00:08:14
especially this time of year. No wonder you love the sunshine.
Christina Lewellen 00:08:17
I'm gonna give that one to you. To be honest,
Peter Antupit 00:08:20
I heard that it's beautiful in the summer, but
Peter Antupit 00:08:22
college students were never there in the summer. So, like, I
Peter Antupit 00:08:25
no idea. I just have to take everyone's word for it. So I
Peter Antupit 00:08:28
actually went to school for psychology and teaching. I left
Peter Antupit 00:08:32
there with a teaching certificate. It's a very cool
Peter Antupit 00:08:34
program where you couldn't major in education. You had to major
Peter Antupit 00:08:38
in the discipline that you wanted to teach, and then you
Peter Antupit 00:08:42
went into, like, took extra seminars, and went into
Peter Antupit 00:08:45
classrooms starting your sophomore year and just doing a
Peter Antupit 00:08:47
couple hours a week until you built up to your student
Peter Antupit 00:08:50
teaching your senior year. And that was, again, sort of, I
Peter Antupit 00:08:53
mean, not really that alternative, but really that
Peter Antupit 00:08:55
deep dive into subject matter, and then learning how to teach
Peter Antupit 00:09:00
was really great. So
Christina Lewellen 00:09:02
you were at landmark for a while, and you
Christina Lewellen 00:09:05
had this like really well rounded, including some computer
Christina Lewellen 00:09:08
science. You had a lot of experience, and kind of bounced
Christina Lewellen 00:09:12
around to support whatever that residential school needed. So
Christina Lewellen 00:09:16
given that you had all this different experience, why did
Christina Lewellen 00:09:19
you end up pursuing the Director of Technology path, as
Peter Antupit 00:09:24
everybody falls into this job. And I've heard
Peter Antupit 00:09:26
you all say before. You know, nobody aspires to be a director
Peter Antupit 00:09:29
of technology when they're 12. The Director of Technology, I
Peter Antupit 00:09:33
should say, is just a computer department head at the time I
Peter Antupit 00:09:36
was at the Lower School campus, smaller campus, like 100 kids,
Peter Antupit 00:09:40
and she decided she didn't want to do anymore. It's like, Sure,
Peter Antupit 00:09:43
I'll do it. Whatever we were teaching logo is no big deal. We
Peter Antupit 00:09:46
were doing some word processing, basic stuff. And then I got kind
Peter Antupit 00:09:50
of interested in a little bit of the hardware part, crimping cat
Peter Antupit 00:09:53
three wires for Apple talk. So that's big fun. Way back.
Peter Antupit 00:09:57
Machine grew at the department a little bit. You know, increase
Peter Antupit 00:10:00
the offerings for kids, and then decide I want to go get a
Peter Antupit 00:10:03
master's in technology and education. So I took off and did
Peter Antupit 00:10:06
that, and that was another really wonderful experience. Was
Peter Antupit 00:10:10
able to do a practicum in some public schools, which gave me a
Peter Antupit 00:10:14
whole different lens to see things I'm a public school kid.
Peter Antupit 00:10:18
So that was really nice to be able to be back in a public
Peter Antupit 00:10:21
school, but then also saw the challenges there, and honestly
Peter Antupit 00:10:25
didn't want to deal with it. I mean, you know, there's this
Peter Antupit 00:10:28
sort of the level of stress and anxiety, and it didn't appeal to
Peter Antupit 00:10:32
me, and I knew I couldn't put my whole heart into it. Hats off to
Peter Antupit 00:10:36
public school folks everywhere. It's becoming more and more
Peter Antupit 00:10:39
difficult, as I've seen, but I found much more of a calling in
Peter Antupit 00:10:42
independent schools at my first job at Michelle Obama Brooks was
Peter Antupit 00:10:45
there for 15 years. It's a great run. Did a little teaching there
Peter Antupit 00:10:49
too. It was a pre K to eight. Luckily enough, my son got to go
Peter Antupit 00:10:52
there for a bunch of years. Ran into folks that I taught with,
Peter Antupit 00:10:57
most recently at NAIS, where I saw Kristina as well. Folks are
Peter Antupit 00:11:01
now heads of school and doing amazing things at other places.
Peter Antupit 00:11:04
So it's really a great place to be while I was there, and then
Peter Antupit 00:11:09
stuff changes, and found myself out in California
Christina Lewellen 00:11:12
at this job, that's a pretty big culture
Christina Lewellen 00:11:15
shift, right? Like from an East Coast school, especially
Christina Lewellen 00:11:18
northeast to Northern California. What was that shift
Christina Lewellen 00:11:22
like? Because it's still an independent school, and there's
Christina Lewellen 00:11:25
certain pillars of excellence, I'm sure. You know, we're kind
Christina Lewellen 00:11:28
of baked into both entities. But was there kind of a cultural
Christina Lewellen 00:11:32
shift students, the programs, the parents, that kind of thing.
Peter Antupit 00:11:36
So mostly because my previous Michelle Brooks is a
Peter Antupit 00:11:40
K to eight, and Crystal Springs is a 612 so I was like, Ah,
Peter Antupit 00:11:44
scary high school students, I don't know. And it wasn't scary
Peter Antupit 00:11:48
high school students at all. The shift was different in the
Peter Antupit 00:11:51
pressures, mostly that we see kids enduring to perform, to be
Peter Antupit 00:11:58
more than their best selves. Sometimes the whole college prep
Peter Antupit 00:12:01
thing is real and the stress is real, and that is ramped up over
Peter Antupit 00:12:06
the past decade. There's no doubt about it, that's been a
Peter Antupit 00:12:08
shift. Parents are still lovely. Honestly, I can't complain about
Peter Antupit 00:12:12
the parents. They're great. Kids are wonderful. There is a lot of
Peter Antupit 00:12:16
parallel between the Boston area and the San Francisco area, so I
Peter Antupit 00:12:21
didn't see as much as I expected, truthfully. And we
Peter Antupit 00:12:25
have a lot of transplants, actually, from the northeast,
Peter Antupit 00:12:27
working here, we could almost have an affinity space of
Peter Antupit 00:12:30
transplants. There are that many of us.
Bill Stites 00:12:32
Both. My parents were public school teachers. It
Bill Stites 00:12:35
runs in the family, the teaching gene. My parents actually came
Bill Stites 00:12:39
here and spent the day with me. They wanted to see what the
Bill Stites 00:12:41
school was like and the school was school was gracious enough
Bill Stites 00:12:44
to let them come and spend the day and go around and see things
Bill Stites 00:12:47
and observe classes. I remember my father when he left for the
Bill Stites 00:12:52
day, he looked at me and he said, You'd be crazy to ever
Bill Stites 00:12:55
leave that place. And I think it was because, you know, he had
Bill Stites 00:12:58
heard me talking about the things that we were doing, and
Bill Stites 00:13:01
then seeing it in action, between the size and just what
Bill Stites 00:13:04
you can do as a teacher, what you can do from an
Bill Stites 00:13:06
administrative perspective, what you can do when you've got an
Bill Stites 00:13:10
independent school culture, when we think about the pipeline of
Bill Stites 00:13:15
leaders in independent schools, being able to Sell the private
Bill Stites 00:13:20
school, the independent school model, to people who may have
Bill Stites 00:13:24
come out of just simply a public school education and don't have
Bill Stites 00:13:27
that background, what did you see in that comparison that you
Bill Stites 00:13:32
made as being some of the struggles and benefits of going
Bill Stites 00:13:36
between the two of them? Because I think if we can identify what
Bill Stites 00:13:40
those are, we can do a better job of building our own
Bill Stites 00:13:44
pipelines of people when we have to have those conversations and
Bill Stites 00:13:48
bridge that gap between the knowns and the unknowns. So
Peter Antupit 00:13:52
with the caveat that this was 27 years ago, so
Peter Antupit 00:13:55
things have changed, but there were some things definitely even
Peter Antupit 00:13:58
way back my student teaching, I remember the administrators
Peter Antupit 00:14:01
being kicked out of a faculty meeting because it was now time
Peter Antupit 00:14:04
to talk about union business, and that was like, what aren't
Peter Antupit 00:14:09
we all in this together? Aren't we supposed to be student
Peter Antupit 00:14:12
focused? And I remember my supervising teacher being told
Peter Antupit 00:14:18
that she shouldn't be staying past 4pm because it makes all
Peter Antupit 00:14:22
the other union employees look bad, and so putting in that
Peter Antupit 00:14:25
extra effort is discouraged. Again, that was a long time ago,
Peter Antupit 00:14:30
but I don't think it's probably changed that much. That's the
Peter Antupit 00:14:33
other thing change, if you need to implement change here, you
Peter Antupit 00:14:38
know, in an independent school, there's usually an avenue that
Peter Antupit 00:14:41
you can take that doesn't take six years. So the rapid
Peter Antupit 00:14:44
iteration is huge. The autonomy is huge. The support, I think
Peter Antupit 00:14:49
it's easier to gather allies in an independent school, because
Peter Antupit 00:14:53
you're tighter, you're smaller, there's not as many levels of
Peter Antupit 00:14:55
bureaucracy.
Hiram Cuevas 00:14:57
Peter, I had a very similar experience. I had
Hiram Cuevas 00:14:59
the. Opportunity to work with underachievers in science
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:02
education as part of a grant in state of Virginia. When I
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:05
interviewed at St Christopher's, knowing it was an all boys
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:08
school, I was like, it's so quiet. What's going on? I didn't
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:12
quite understand it. It's because there weren't any
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:15
struggles in hallways. I mean, boys were being boys, and they
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:18
were talking and conversing and being a little silly at the
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:21
middle school, but it was just a vast difference between my
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:25
public school experience and my private school experience. The
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:29
curriculum that I was able to develop and the amount of
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:32
funding I was actually able to get to help get the science
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:34
program going and then eventually the technology
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:37
program going. The three of us have quite the range of
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:40
experience. You said 27 years? Bill's over 30. I'm at 34 are we
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:45
seeing a change, not only in the students, but also the teachers
Hiram Cuevas 00:15:48
that are going into this space? Yeah, so I
Peter Antupit 00:15:51
did a little homework. I've been listening to
Peter Antupit 00:15:53
past podcasts, full disclosure, not a past listener, current
Peter Antupit 00:15:57
participant, but I'm instantly hooked. I'll name it. I'm like,
Peter Antupit 00:16:01
instantly hooked. I'm like, Why haven't I been listening to this
Peter Antupit 00:16:04
all along? And the gentleman who is on from the Southern
Peter Antupit 00:16:07
Association of Independent Schools, so hit home. Yeah. Brad
Peter Antupit 00:16:11
Jacobsen, I think we are seeing, how do we bring the loyalty and
Peter Antupit 00:16:16
the lifestyle folks together? How do we bridge that gap when
Peter Antupit 00:16:20
we get folks in, and it's, I think, first acknowledging that
Peter Antupit 00:16:24
gap, just faculty wise, where we see folks being most
Peter Antupit 00:16:30
instrumental, I think, is where their creativity is coming in,
Peter Antupit 00:16:33
and that is a factor, I think, of their lifestyle. So the newer
Peter Antupit 00:16:37
folks that we're bringing in, I think, are bringing this energy
Peter Antupit 00:16:40
that we've been missing at times where we've been sometimes
Peter Antupit 00:16:44
loyalty gets stuck in systems and the lifestyle can bring that
Peter Antupit 00:16:47
energy and innovation.
Christina Lewellen 00:16:50
So one of the things that I like to
Christina Lewellen 00:16:52
clarify, Peter is what your role is responsible for at your
Christina Lewellen 00:16:56
school, because we don't ever see two job descriptions the
Christina Lewellen 00:17:00
same. What does your day to day look like? What is your area of
Christina Lewellen 00:17:03
responsibility? And I guess maybe part and parcel is what is
Christina Lewellen 00:17:07
not in the technology realm falling under you. Yeah, I'm
Peter Antupit 00:17:11
just generally annoying. I poke myself into all
Peter Antupit 00:17:15
sorts of places where you wouldn't expect to see a CIO.
Christina Lewellen 00:17:18
I mean, I think that's a good tech
Christina Lewellen 00:17:20
director, to be honest,
Peter Antupit 00:17:23
because it's all relational, right? It's all
Peter Antupit 00:17:25
about moving the school forward and what role technology places.
Peter Antupit 00:17:29
We'll get to the ALI stuff, but I've learned so much from being
Peter Antupit 00:17:32
a part of the Ali and the early e cat stuff that I bring to my
Peter Antupit 00:17:36
work. So day to day will be a zoom, meeting with the tech
Peter Antupit 00:17:42
department, boxes and wires, going over tickets, talking
Peter Antupit 00:17:45
vendors, oi, vendors these days, vendors, service providers.
Peter Antupit 00:17:51
Brutal. We feel your pain. I'm fortunate enough to be on the
Peter Antupit 00:17:54
senior leadership team that meets a couple times a week,
Peter Antupit 00:17:58
talking to folks in HR, not about HR issues, but about
Peter Antupit 00:18:02
onboarding and off boarding advisory a couple times a week,
Peter Antupit 00:18:07
working with other departments, admissions, advancement, again,
Peter Antupit 00:18:12
poking my nose in places, you know, where we've had some rapid
Peter Antupit 00:18:15
turnover in a position it's a tech adjacent position, asking
Peter Antupit 00:18:20
them, Should we be reevaluating what we're actually looking for
Peter Antupit 00:18:23
and thinking about a different way to staff this, which really
Peter Antupit 00:18:27
has, I have no business even talking about, but I do those
Peter Antupit 00:18:31
kinds of things. I'm also the ed tech guy, which is what I like
Peter Antupit 00:18:35
to say I do most poorly, and so I've been pushing myself to do
Peter Antupit 00:18:40
more of that Ed Tech work with folks, and if we touch on it,
Peter Antupit 00:18:43
you know, we're doing a lot more thinking about AI, which has
Peter Antupit 00:18:46
been great, because it's bringing the Ed Tech part
Peter Antupit 00:18:49
forward in our mission here. So that's part of it. I'm all over
Peter Antupit 00:18:53
the place. I actually had an advisee, an 11th grader, who
Peter Antupit 00:18:57
came down to my office. He's a new advisee of mine, said, I
Peter Antupit 00:19:00
didn't know you had an office. I just thought you walked around
Peter Antupit 00:19:03
all day with your coffee mug. That's it like, that's, I think,
Peter Antupit 00:19:06
the ideal tech director is you're not sitting in your
Peter Antupit 00:19:08
office, you're actually roaming around, and you're visible, and
Peter Antupit 00:19:11
you're talking to people, because that's how you find out
Peter Antupit 00:19:13
what's happening in a school, doing rounds. You're doing
Peter Antupit 00:19:17
rounds.
Bill Stites 00:19:18
Yeah, and Peter, it doesn't surprise me listening to
Bill Stites 00:19:22
the way in which you describe your job because the one thing I
Bill Stites 00:19:26
need to thank you for, and I think a lot of people need to
Bill Stites 00:19:29
thank you for, is that you started collecting job
Bill Stites 00:19:33
descriptions and shared those out. I still have in like my job
Bill Stites 00:19:38
descriptions folder, in the stuff that I have to manage my
Bill Stites 00:19:41
team. I have a link to that folder that you put together,
Bill Stites 00:19:45
because anytime I need to update that job descriptions, I need to
Bill Stites 00:19:48
work through any of them, I turn to that resource, and I've
Bill Stites 00:19:52
shared that resource with numerous people asking about
Bill Stites 00:19:55
what those job descriptions are like. And it was interesting,
Bill Stites 00:19:58
because that. Folder, and some of the descriptions were really
Bill Stites 00:20:03
one of my first for as into trying to create an AI bot to
Bill Stites 00:20:10
help me write descriptions. So I downloaded a bunch of them, I
Bill Stites 00:20:14
dropped them in the bot, and I said, based on all this
Bill Stites 00:20:18
information, help me craft the job description around this, and
Bill Stites 00:20:21
it was helpful. I mean, it wasn't the final description
Bill Stites 00:20:24
that I use, but it was that idea of, how can I get at those
Bill Stites 00:20:29
different things. So hearing you describe, given the numbers that
Bill Stites 00:20:32
you've posted up into that folder, given the numbers that
Bill Stites 00:20:35
you've probably read, I'm sure you've got all sorts of ideas,
Bill Stites 00:20:37
but a heartfelt thank you for even thinking to put that
Bill Stites 00:20:41
together and then sharing it out, because it's been used by
Bill Stites 00:20:45
me and by others numerous times. Happy
Peter Antupit 00:20:47
to do it. It's low hanging fruit. And it
Peter Antupit 00:20:50
started for that same reason. Bill, I was like, Oh, I, you
Peter Antupit 00:20:53
know, I know I want to hire somebody in this role. There's
Peter Antupit 00:20:56
got to be a posting somewhere that I can, sort of like, pull
Peter Antupit 00:20:59
things from before AI, right? And just like, the bullet
Peter Antupit 00:21:02
points, and I've gone, obviously myself in there, when hiring for
Peter Antupit 00:21:05
folks, what are the key things? What's fascinating to me is what
Peter Antupit 00:21:09
seems not relevant to what I want to hire. Just as you said,
Peter Antupit 00:21:12
Christina, every role is different, and so, like, I don't
Peter Antupit 00:21:15
need that. And I'm like, some of it is, like, what's the
Peter Antupit 00:21:19
curiosity as to why they even have to put that in a
Christina Lewellen 00:21:22
job description. Yeah. Where did
Christina Lewellen 00:21:24
that grow from? Exactly like
Peter Antupit 00:21:26
there's only a policy in your handbook because
Peter Antupit 00:21:28
something went crazy wrong, yep, and you needed to document so it
Peter Antupit 00:21:32
didn't happen again. So why is that in that job description?
Peter Antupit 00:21:36
100%
Christina Lewellen 00:21:37
as you mentioned, you've been involved
Christina Lewellen 00:21:39
first with what we called the ECAD program, Early Career
Christina Lewellen 00:21:42
Technology Director, and now it's morphed into the Atlas
Christina Lewellen 00:21:47
Leadership Institute, and you still remain a program shepherd
Christina Lewellen 00:21:50
of that really important, critical component of the Atlas
Christina Lewellen 00:21:54
community. How has Ali changed over the years? You've been
Christina Lewellen 00:21:58
involved consistently for a long time. Do you think the program
Christina Lewellen 00:22:01
is pretty similar to where it was in day one? Or do you think
Christina Lewellen 00:22:04
that we're tackling different and more complex issues now,
Christina Lewellen 00:22:06
which would probably be my guess,
Peter Antupit 00:22:09
yeah, you're spot on. You know, early on, the
Peter Antupit 00:22:11
first couple of cohorts, almost everybody in the cohort could
Peter Antupit 00:22:15
have taught the cohort. It was much more about getting that
Peter Antupit 00:22:18
certification, that saying that they had done the program than
Peter Antupit 00:22:23
actually learning anything, and there was so much learning. I
Peter Antupit 00:22:26
mean, I put it down as my PD days, because I was learning far
Peter Antupit 00:22:30
more than they were just wealth of knowledge from folks. I'm not
Peter Antupit 00:22:33
going to try to list people, because I'll forget somebody
Peter Antupit 00:22:36
really key, and I don't want to do that. But those early cohorts
Peter Antupit 00:22:40
were amazing, and it has shifted. We, early on, were
Peter Antupit 00:22:44
talking more about how to get yourself, I think, at the table,
Peter Antupit 00:22:48
and to help other people understand what it is you do. So
Peter Antupit 00:22:51
much more of the self advocacy. And I think when the pandemic
Peter Antupit 00:22:55
hit, it became a little bit more surfaced as to what we do,
Peter Antupit 00:22:59
because all of a sudden, everybody had to rely on us for
Peter Antupit 00:23:02
things, even though we've been doing everything invisible in
Peter Antupit 00:23:05
the background before. All of a sudden, the visibility
Peter Antupit 00:23:08
increased. I think we're focusing more now on something I
Peter Antupit 00:23:13
know you all have talked about, is just the relationship nature
Peter Antupit 00:23:15
of technology. Technology is relational and emotional, and
Peter Antupit 00:23:21
aspiring leaders need to know that, so we're focusing a little
Peter Antupit 00:23:24
bit more on the empathy, on the coming out of your silo, on not
Peter Antupit 00:23:29
eating lunch at your desk, on You are crazy busy, but you have
Peter Antupit 00:23:33
to make the time to make those connections. That's a big focus.
Peter Antupit 00:23:37
We're also seeing some folks now. Many schools have split and
Peter Antupit 00:23:41
have an ed tech and an IT department. So the crossover is
Peter Antupit 00:23:45
important to getting people to understand the other side of the
Peter Antupit 00:23:48
house, and that's also where we're more adaptable, is that
Peter Antupit 00:23:51
we're able, you know, Ashley just was able, to get somebody
Peter Antupit 00:23:54
to come in to do a deep dive into the tech side of it
Peter Antupit 00:23:58
switches, you know, DNS, all that good stuff. When you're one
Peter Antupit 00:24:03
person shop, you kind of know it all, but we've lost sight of
Peter Antupit 00:24:06
some of that. That's where I think it's shifted little more
Peter Antupit 00:24:09
dichotomous, a little bit more emphasis on relational and
Peter Antupit 00:24:13
empathy, yeah, and
Christina Lewellen 00:24:15
I think that that's what we're seeing too,
Christina Lewellen 00:24:17
just in the Atlas community in general, right? We often say
Christina Lewellen 00:24:20
that they either come in as a former teacher and they're
Christina Lewellen 00:24:22
comfortable with the ed tech side of the house, but maybe a
Christina Lewellen 00:24:25
little less comfortable with cyber and student data privacy
Christina Lewellen 00:24:28
and the IT side, or they come from that it side and they don't
Christina Lewellen 00:24:33
necessarily know to speak the language of teachers, and that
Christina Lewellen 00:24:35
that's a challenge, and so really, that Atlas Leadership
Christina Lewellen 00:24:38
Institute program is meant to bridge that gap for whatever
Christina Lewellen 00:24:44
side. And by pairing great IT people with great ed tech
Christina Lewellen 00:24:47
people, the cohort ends up being really robust. And so it
Christina Lewellen 00:24:50
remains, you know, one of our most popular programs, and I
Christina Lewellen 00:24:53
think it really helps schools everywhere, because it really
Christina Lewellen 00:24:57
shores up the other side of the house, whatever that is for. A
Christina Lewellen 00:25:00
particular person.
Bill Stites 00:25:01
I've had three people from MKA go through that
Bill Stites 00:25:05
program, and to that point, most of them came at the job from
Bill Stites 00:25:12
something other than education. I've mentioned before. My degree
Bill Stites 00:25:15
is in early childhood education. So I learned the it site as it
Bill Stites 00:25:19
was developing. You know, over the course of 30 years, started
Bill Stites 00:25:22
out very basic, but for those that were coming in from the
Bill Stites 00:25:26
other side of that, I found that the ALI program and going back
Bill Stites 00:25:31
to the E cat program as being a mentor for those people, it's
Bill Stites 00:25:35
been really transformative in terms of allowing them to build
Bill Stites 00:25:40
that base, because it's not only the educational piece that they
Bill Stites 00:25:44
get. I can remember a conversation I had with someone
Bill Stites 00:25:48
we had on the pod, Alek Duba, who came from a school
Bill Stites 00:25:52
background then from Veracross. But even in addition to what he
Bill Stites 00:25:56
gained and others gained on that educational side, it was also
Bill Stites 00:26:01
the how does the school work and function? The conversation he
Bill Stites 00:26:05
had with our CFO about how things work there, so he told me
Bill Stites 00:26:10
that was one of the best conversations he had as part of
Bill Stites 00:26:14
the homework that he had to do as part of that program. And I
Bill Stites 00:26:18
think if anything, the participation in that, what you
Bill Stites 00:26:21
teach them in the work that you've done, you know, and that
Bill Stites 00:26:24
you continue to do there, and the work that is assigned to
Bill Stites 00:26:27
them that they need to bring back, and those relational
Bill Stites 00:26:30
conversations that you're talking about really do develop
Bill Stites 00:26:35
our next generation of leaders, or even some of our current
Bill Stites 00:26:38
leaders, in leveling them up. It does such a good job at that.
Bill Stites 00:26:42
What
Peter Antupit 00:26:42
I like about the homeworks is it gives permission
Peter Antupit 00:26:44
to poke where you wouldn't normally be welcome. And I think
Peter Antupit 00:26:48
that's exactly it. When does the help desk guy get to talk to the
Peter Antupit 00:26:52
director of advancement? You know, they don't have a deep
Peter Antupit 00:26:55
conversation. We always force the CFO conversation because
Peter Antupit 00:26:58
that's so critical, but we always ask them to do a
Peter Antupit 00:27:01
secondary Yeah, that's great to hear. Yeah.
Christina Lewellen 00:27:04
I mean, it's so interesting how the benefit
Christina Lewellen 00:27:07
is to the individual in the ALI program, but also the school
Christina Lewellen 00:27:10
you're digging and poking around corners that maybe you don't
Christina Lewellen 00:27:12
always participate in.
Hiram Cuevas 00:27:15
I also think it has enhanced their confidence to
Hiram Cuevas 00:27:18
be able to talk to these physicians as well, because
Hiram Cuevas 00:27:22
they're not used to it, and they're never interfacing with
Hiram Cuevas 00:27:25
those members of senior leadership in a way that is
Hiram Cuevas 00:27:29
meaningful other than perhaps being in a support position.
Peter Antupit 00:27:32
Yeah, agreed. That's the other thing we're
Peter Antupit 00:27:35
hoping to do is, you know, every group has to then present out to
Peter Antupit 00:27:39
the rest of the cohort several times. So we're also working on
Peter Antupit 00:27:42
those confidence building presentation stuff, and you can
Peter Antupit 00:27:45
see who's comfortable doing it and who isn't. And people
Peter Antupit 00:27:48
progress, they get better. One of
Bill Stites 00:27:51
the things with the cohorts that I'll just mention,
Bill Stites 00:27:53
I just took a trip up to Vermont with Steve France, who we had on
Bill Stites 00:27:57
the podcast, again, a li graduate, who's director over at
Bill Stites 00:28:01
the Pingree school here in New Jersey. And one of the things
Bill Stites 00:28:03
that I've heard from him, I've heard from Alek, again, who's
Bill Stites 00:28:07
gone through the program and as well as Jarrell, who, again, all
Bill Stites 00:28:11
the three people here at MK, is the amount that these people,
Bill Stites 00:28:15
the three of them, and Steve in particular, as well the amount
Bill Stites 00:28:19
of time that they've spent with their cohort after the program
Bill Stites 00:28:22
concludes, they are still getting together, they are still
Bill Stites 00:28:26
talking, they are still sharing. You know, you mentioned it the
Bill Stites 00:28:29
relationships. I've talked about it time and time again. You
Bill Stites 00:28:32
know, it's about building that professional network and those
Bill Stites 00:28:35
relationships there that make you truly successful. And I
Bill Stites 00:28:38
don't think, and I don't know whether the Atlas or the ALI
Bill Stites 00:28:42
participants have even tracked that level of cohesion after the
Bill Stites 00:28:46
program is closed, but I can tell you straight out, at least
Bill Stites 00:28:49
from those four people that I'm talking about, they're all still
Bill Stites 00:28:52
in touch with that group on a regular basis,
Hiram Cuevas 00:28:55
and so many of them are becoming the new rising
Hiram Cuevas 00:28:57
stars within this community. I mean, it really is impressive to
Hiram Cuevas 00:29:01
see the level of talent that's already coming out of this
Hiram Cuevas 00:29:04
program. Let's
Christina Lewellen 00:29:06
talk about that. Because I think that we
Christina Lewellen 00:29:07
often talk about the first gen tech leaders, which I consider
Christina Lewellen 00:29:10
all three of you to be, because you sort of grew up into these
Christina Lewellen 00:29:14
positions and now they are a lot more complex. Let's start Peter.
Christina Lewellen 00:29:19
I'd love to know what sort of trends or issues you're dealing
Christina Lewellen 00:29:23
with as a tech leader that you really couldn't have imagined.
Christina Lewellen 00:29:27
Forget 30 years ago? How about like 10 years
Peter Antupit 00:29:30
ago? The obvious, AI, is the first one, and how
Peter Antupit 00:29:34
that intercepts with everything we're doing, and I just don't
Peter Antupit 00:29:38
mean the student side. I mean employees as well. How employees
Peter Antupit 00:29:42
can use it with efficacy. And efficacy is critical. The
Peter Antupit 00:29:47
sophistication This is a horrible thing to say, but the
Peter Antupit 00:29:50
sophistication at which the bullying has progressed, where
Peter Antupit 00:29:54
technology is a vehicle, is sad, but also true. There's that part
Peter Antupit 00:29:59
of it as well. So I think, from the faculty side, how ubiquitous
Peter Antupit 00:30:03
it is, and then how reliant, which is a beautiful thing it
Peter Antupit 00:30:08
used to be. Do you need to give me this laptop? I'd really just
Peter Antupit 00:30:12
like to keep using my chalkboard. That has
Peter Antupit 00:30:14
significantly changed, and
Christina Lewellen 00:30:16
now if the laptop dies, it's an emergency,
Christina Lewellen 00:30:18
day or night, right? Oh,
Peter Antupit 00:30:20
my God. Such an emergency. Such an emergency. I
Peter Antupit 00:30:24
mean, I feel that
Hiram Cuevas 00:30:25
go back to old school. Yeah,
Unknown 00:30:28
yesterday,
Bill Stites 00:30:29
we were doing some minor updates to our firewall,
Bill Stites 00:30:31
and it required the firewall to restart, and there was, like,
Bill Stites 00:30:34
maybe 510, minutes of downtime, and no one's really here. So
Bill Stites 00:30:37
it's again, perfect time to do it. The people that were in the
Bill Stites 00:30:41
office is working. They all left because they had 10 minutes
Bill Stites 00:30:44
without internet, and they were like, we can't get our work
Bill Stites 00:30:46
done. You know, you tell them that it's going to be temporary
Bill Stites 00:30:49
Adams, but it was like, What did you do before the computer?
Christina Lewellen 00:30:53
They said, We're going to Starbucks. We're
Christina Lewellen 00:30:55
out of here
Bill Stites 00:30:57
exactly. Yeah, I don't think it was Starbucks to
Bill Stites 00:30:59
get more work done, but they all left. Yeah,
Peter Antupit 00:31:02
that's what we're looking at. And of course, just
Peter Antupit 00:31:05
tech addiction in itself as well. And I will also say not
Peter Antupit 00:31:09
just for students, but helping pulling back on technology to
Peter Antupit 00:31:13
help folks find more balance. You know, it was supposed to be
Peter Antupit 00:31:16
a great relief, right? You're supposed to be able to use
Peter Antupit 00:31:18
technology to make your life easier. And all it did was an
Peter Antupit 00:31:20
over communication tool. And so how to scale back and how to
Peter Antupit 00:31:25
think about what we're asking of our employees, how often we're
Peter Antupit 00:31:29
asking them to be connected, is a whole other thing. Yeah. I
Christina Lewellen 00:31:33
mean, it's completely relevant, right?
Christina Lewellen 00:31:34
Because especially the generation of teachers that are
Christina Lewellen 00:31:38
a little bit older, they went into this profession thinking
Christina Lewellen 00:31:41
there would be balance like that was one of the payoffs, right? I
Christina Lewellen 00:31:44
worry about that too for our teachers, because what used to
Christina Lewellen 00:31:49
be like summers and evenings and weekends, you know, if not off,
Christina Lewellen 00:31:53
at least maybe turned down a little bit, and now that's got
Christina Lewellen 00:31:56
to be really, really hard, not only with the workload and all
Christina Lewellen 00:31:59
the extra administration stuff, but then also just not being
Christina Lewellen 00:32:03
able to really shut it off with parents and students always
Christina Lewellen 00:32:06
needing that last minute, like, I have a quiz tomorrow and I'm
Christina Lewellen 00:32:09
panicking and I need help or whatever, that's got to be
Christina Lewellen 00:32:11
really hard for them.
Peter Antupit 00:32:13
Yes, I will say that our Head of School here has
Peter Antupit 00:32:16
really tried to push balance, and as simple as doing the Send
Peter Antupit 00:32:21
Later makes a huge difference, and not willing to implement
Peter Antupit 00:32:25
multiple communication platforms helps a lot. Also, when you have
Peter Antupit 00:32:30
too many ways to communicate, people communicate too often,
Peter Antupit 00:32:34
and I think that that's something we need to look at
Peter Antupit 00:32:37
seriously, although I'm shocked that at you know, 2am my head of
Peter Antupit 00:32:40
school needs an iTunes gift card. Ah, but if that happens,
Peter Antupit 00:32:44
that happens, you know, you
Christina Lewellen 00:32:45
may not want to fall for that friend. And you
Christina Lewellen 00:32:49
also mentioned, like with the role of the eyes, the thing
Christina Lewellen 00:32:51
about the vendors. And I know that, you know, we kind of go
Christina Lewellen 00:32:54
there a lot, but that's also a big issue in terms of just
Christina Lewellen 00:32:57
juggling all the various tools. Do you think that teachers are
Christina Lewellen 00:33:00
burnt out on ed tech tools and using technology. I think we're
Christina Lewellen 00:33:05
coming back
Peter Antupit 00:33:06
from the pandemic. Everybody had to then
Peter Antupit 00:33:08
there was the everybody back to paper and pencil, and I don't
Peter Antupit 00:33:11
ever want to turn on another screen or look at another kid in
Peter Antupit 00:33:14
a little box. I think we're starting to see some benefits
Peter Antupit 00:33:18
past the sphere of AI yesterday during our what we call our PAC
Peter Antupit 00:33:23
meeting, our professional adult community meeting, our faculty
Peter Antupit 00:33:26
employee meeting, I was demoing something in Flint and some
Peter Antupit 00:33:30
folks that I know within departments that are like never,
Peter Antupit 00:33:34
ever, AI and I built this activity that showed this is how
Peter Antupit 00:33:38
They can get started to avoid blank page syndrome. And when
Peter Antupit 00:33:43
they come to you, they have something that started, and how
Peter Antupit 00:33:46
much further you can get with them in a three minute
Peter Antupit 00:33:48
conversation, because AI has launched them a little bit,
Peter Antupit 00:33:52
there was like, an aha moment, and a bunch of folks who were
Peter Antupit 00:33:55
like, wow, that actually could save me some time. And the idea
Peter Antupit 00:33:59
that at 10 o'clock at night, a kid who's going to be scared
Peter Antupit 00:34:03
that they don't know enough about the quiz and drop into an
Peter Antupit 00:34:07
AI activity and quiz themselves and then feel more confident
Peter Antupit 00:34:10
that they got this is huge, because we have teachers who
Peter Antupit 00:34:13
care, right? We all have faculty that care, and some of them are
Peter Antupit 00:34:17
answering email at 10 o'clock at night, when the kids emailing
Peter Antupit 00:34:20
and saying, I'm not sure I can take the quiz on photosynthesis.
Peter Antupit 00:34:23
If we give kids a vehicle which they can be more assured that
Peter Antupit 00:34:27
they're ready, that's huge.
Christina Lewellen 00:34:30
Yeah, 100% you know, I have a question for
Christina Lewellen 00:34:32
all three of you that I don't think that we've really looked
Christina Lewellen 00:34:35
at before, and that is so AI has been on the scene for a bit.
Christina Lewellen 00:34:40
And, you know, there's some teachers that are probably just
Christina Lewellen 00:34:43
kind of exploring on their own. There's others that you guys
Christina Lewellen 00:34:46
might be spoon feeding some school approved solutions, like
Christina Lewellen 00:34:50
flint or, you know, if your school uses magic school or
Christina Lewellen 00:34:52
whatever the tool, whatever the solution. But I find it
Christina Lewellen 00:34:56
interesting. I was just speaking at a school recently. And I was
Christina Lewellen 00:35:00
in front of a lot of the schools faculty, and I had this
Christina Lewellen 00:35:03
impression that the school was probably among the more AI
Christina Lewellen 00:35:06
forward independent schools, like really encouraging the
Christina Lewellen 00:35:09
faculty to experiment and to use AI. They have a very clear set
Christina Lewellen 00:35:13
of expectations for the students, and yet the faculty
Christina Lewellen 00:35:17
was still quite mixed. You know, as I went in, I kind of went in
Christina Lewellen 00:35:22
with this assumption, like, oh, you work here, so you must be
Christina Lewellen 00:35:25
fairly comfortable, confident using AI more regularly than the
Christina Lewellen 00:35:30
average teacher. Maybe it was a mixed bag. So do you find that
Christina Lewellen 00:35:35
your faculties are still kind of all over the spectrum when it
Christina Lewellen 00:35:38
comes to these types of tools? I'll
Bill Stites 00:35:40
just speak personally to what I'm seeing
Bill Stites 00:35:42
here is, I think that there is a good degree more hesitation with
Bill Stites 00:35:48
AI because of some of the unknowns around it, whether it's
Bill Stites 00:35:53
from is it kid using it or not? Like, how do we know? What are
Bill Stites 00:35:57
the ground rules that you've set up to determine that? What are
Bill Stites 00:36:00
they doing with the data? Because that's all we hear
Bill Stites 00:36:02
about, is we're feeding into these larger models, and being
Bill Stites 00:36:05
careful about what you feed these things and then generally,
Bill Stites 00:36:09
like, what is the value? How is it going to either add to or
Bill Stites 00:36:13
take away from what it is I'm trying to do, I think that there
Bill Stites 00:36:17
are still more ongoing questions about it that because teachers
Bill Stites 00:36:24
don't feel like they've got a set frame from which to work,
Bill Stites 00:36:27
because most of the tools that we've implemented, you know,
Bill Stites 00:36:30
they come in, you can train around them, you can do PD
Bill Stites 00:36:33
around them. You can lay down some guidelines that you know
Bill Stites 00:36:39
it's going to be contained within. And I think at least
Bill Stites 00:36:42
from an AI perspective, you can lay out those guidelines, but
Bill Stites 00:36:45
you've got to realize that it's moving so fast, and there's so
Bill Stites 00:36:49
many different things out there, there's a greater level of
Bill Stites 00:36:53
apprehension and trepidation about taking that step into it,
Bill Stites 00:36:57
because you may think you've figured out how you're going to
Bill Stites 00:37:01
use it or allow its use, and then the next day it could be
Bill Stites 00:37:05
turned on its ear and completely different.
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:07
Yeah, I agree with you, Bill. I'm going to take
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:09
this question Kristina, and look at it from two different ways.
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:12
And one is how I think our administration has viewed it,
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:16
and then also how our teachers have viewed it. I think our
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:19
teachers were pretty excited about it. In some instances,
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:24
there was a continuum across that. But I'm finding that our
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:28
teachers are becoming more accepting of the use of AI,
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:34
especially for their own personal work. And then it's
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:36
been interesting this particular year for us is I'm noticing that
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:40
our our administration, has really moved the needle. I think
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:45
initially they were very cautious, and now I think
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:48
they're starting to realize that if we don't do this
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:52
appropriately with our boys, we are actually going to set them
Hiram Cuevas 00:37:56
behind, and we need to really have a good path for success, to
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:02
prepare them for the future. Actually, it's not even the
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:04
future. Prepare them for today, because that is tantamount to,
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:09
they say, Christopher's education. And we are trying
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:13
really hard to ensure that we create good leaders, that we
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:17
create men of character, or phrases, you know, boys of
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:20
promise, of men of character. So we really want to ensure that we
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:25
prepare them for this new space. What's interesting is it reminds
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:31
me of the disruptive nature of laptops when they were first
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:35
introduced to schools. The challenge is that laptops
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:39
produce such a burden, I think, on technology budgets and school
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:43
budgets, that it was able to kind of go at a pace that was at
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:47
least more reasonable. This is turn schools upside down on its
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:51
head, and it's the access that people have, the access that
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:55
students have, and really the ongoing PD that is needed, not
Hiram Cuevas 00:38:59
only for the faculty and the staff, but for our students and
Hiram Cuevas 00:39:03
our parents, because they really don't understand all that's
Hiram Cuevas 00:39:06
involved, particularly in the area of PII. That's my greatest
Hiram Cuevas 00:39:10
fear, is they're just using this tech, and they just don't
Hiram Cuevas 00:39:14
whatever it is that they want in there, and they're not
Hiram Cuevas 00:39:17
considering the implications when they throw in PII. I've
Peter Antupit 00:39:21
been thinking about this. We haven't surveyed
Peter Antupit 00:39:23
faculty in a while about their use of AI, and I was thinking,
Peter Antupit 00:39:27
maybe it's time to do that again. And then I realized, as
Peter Antupit 00:39:29
soon as we get the data, it's outdated, because everything's
Peter Antupit 00:39:33
changing, and teachers attitudes are changing so quickly. To
Peter Antupit 00:39:37
Hiram point about teaching appropriate use, and I know
Peter Antupit 00:39:41
that's one of the reasons we're using the tool I'll name drop
Peter Antupit 00:39:44
again, Flint, is because we can put those guard wheels in place.
Peter Antupit 00:39:47
Because if we don't give them anything to train themselves on,
Peter Antupit 00:39:51
it's the Wild West, and they're going to go to GPT and just say,
Peter Antupit 00:39:55
write my paper. But if we set up an activity in Flint that said,
Peter Antupit 00:39:59
behave like. A tutor and helping students generate ideas, then we
Peter Antupit 00:40:05
hope that they're going to use that as part of their learning
Peter Antupit 00:40:09
process, and not just a do for me process. I think that's where
Peter Antupit 00:40:13
we are with it, and when we can do the PD, we're like so
Peter Antupit 00:40:17
targeted. I was in the room with an English teacher, and we were
Peter Antupit 00:40:20
talking about AI, and, you know, the fears of AI writing a paper.
Peter Antupit 00:40:24
And I said, Well, what if we set up an activity that's helped me
Peter Antupit 00:40:27
write a thesis and tell the AI, like, straight up, do not write
Peter Antupit 00:40:32
the thesis, even if I submit one, don't revive like, so
Peter Antupit 00:40:36
specifically, like, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. And
Peter Antupit 00:40:39
then you could see the AI was really that tutor, which is a
Peter Antupit 00:40:43
great equalizer for kids access to those kinds of resources. And
Peter Antupit 00:40:47
it was like a light bulb went off, honestly, for the teacher,
Peter Antupit 00:40:50
it was like, Oh, this could really be helpful. Again. They
Peter Antupit 00:40:53
can have this whole brainstorming session with AI
Peter Antupit 00:40:56
before they come to see me, and I'm not helping them with step
Peter Antupit 00:41:00
one or two, I can help them dig deep and actually enhance their
Peter Antupit 00:41:05
learning, because they've already got something that's not
Peter Antupit 00:41:08
so bad, and I can teach them to make it something excellent.
Christina Lewellen 00:41:12
Yeah, I think that one of the examples
Christina Lewellen 00:41:14
that I sometimes use is that my daughters, who are in college, I
Christina Lewellen 00:41:19
often encourage them to put the prompt in from the professor, to
Christina Lewellen 00:41:23
beat the writers block, and ask the AI, basically to say, what
Christina Lewellen 00:41:29
questions would I need to answer in order to fully explore this
Christina Lewellen 00:41:33
prompt? And it just gives a list of questions, and then it gives
Christina Lewellen 00:41:36
the kids something to start with, to kind of how to wrap
Christina Lewellen 00:41:39
their brain around it. They're not asking it to outline.
Christina Lewellen 00:41:41
They're not asking it to write for them, just simply saying,
Christina Lewellen 00:41:44
what questions would I need to answer if I were to fully
Christina Lewellen 00:41:47
explore this topic or this prompt? And it gives a whole
Christina Lewellen 00:41:51
list of them, and it's a great thought starter. And you know,
Christina Lewellen 00:41:54
that's often an example. I like yours as well, which is like,
Christina Lewellen 00:41:57
don't give me the thesis, but walk me through it. You know,
Christina Lewellen 00:42:00
What elements do I need to hit here? And I like that approach,
Christina Lewellen 00:42:03
and I think that that's how a lot of kids will use it, because
Christina Lewellen 00:42:06
we very shortly got to this era where it's like, Oh yeah, that
Christina Lewellen 00:42:08
was written by AI. There's the telltale signs and the bullets
Christina Lewellen 00:42:12
and the numbered lists. And so you can tell that even in the
Christina Lewellen 00:42:15
adult world, when something was written by AI, not that there's
Christina Lewellen 00:42:19
anything particularly wrong with it, depending on the situation,
Christina Lewellen 00:42:22
but at least using it to get us thinking rather than to do the
Christina Lewellen 00:42:25
writing for us is, I think, where the real power lies, at
Christina Lewellen 00:42:27
least at the moment, with this generation of AI. So we'll see.
Christina Lewellen 00:42:31
So with you guys being first gen tech leaders, and you've been
Christina Lewellen 00:42:36
around for a while, you're the ones putting together cool
Christina Lewellen 00:42:39
resources full of job descriptions and the one
Christina Lewellen 00:42:41
speaking at the Atlas conference and presenting to the Atlas
Christina Lewellen 00:42:44
Leadership Institute. Where do you turn Peter for your kind of
Christina Lewellen 00:42:48
inspiration and or your PD, do you still feel like you get a
Christina Lewellen 00:42:52
lot out of being part of the Atlas community? Because I know
Christina Lewellen 00:42:56
that I feel that way in the association community, for sure,
Christina Lewellen 00:42:58
but when you're the one presenting more often than the
Christina Lewellen 00:43:00
one sitting in the sessions. Where do you kind of get your PD
Christina Lewellen 00:43:03
from?
Peter Antupit 00:43:04
Definitely, Atlas. I read almost every post
Peter Antupit 00:43:07
that comes through is EDL as well. That's it, and the side
Peter Antupit 00:43:11
posts that go sideways and links, definitely Atlas is the
Peter Antupit 00:43:15
go to conference in my leadership. I've been going to
Peter Antupit 00:43:20
NAIS more often the past few years, and seeing benefit there
Peter Antupit 00:43:24
to get that higher view about what's happening in schools, and
Peter Antupit 00:43:28
then thinking about how I can support, again, that empathy,
Peter Antupit 00:43:31
that relational part, what everyone else is going through.
Peter Antupit 00:43:34
Those are my conferences right now, and I find that that's
Peter Antupit 00:43:38
really valuable. It's also great to see Atlas folks at NAIS that
Peter Antupit 00:43:44
aren't in technology anymore, division heads and such, to
Peter Antupit 00:43:47
Bill's point, earlier, that have moved out of the realm of
Peter Antupit 00:43:51
technology leaders and actually school leaders. I think you had
Peter Antupit 00:43:54
talked about that a little bit like, how do we get people to
Peter Antupit 00:43:56
look a little bit further out? I'm also fortunate enough to be
Peter Antupit 00:44:00
part of a cohort that Jamie Sullivan at Kesley put together
Peter Antupit 00:44:04
with Eric Hudson, and we're doing an AI cohort in the Bay
Peter Antupit 00:44:07
Area. Oh, that's cool. So I'm learning a lot from all of those
Peter Antupit 00:44:10
folks. That's been really great. I think there are six different
Peter Antupit 00:44:13
independent schools in that cohort, so we're all chatting
Peter Antupit 00:44:16
and talking there, and that's great. And then I'm learning
Peter Antupit 00:44:19
from my peers here just locally what they're talking about. I
Peter Antupit 00:44:24
love it. You can learn from everywhere, right? And I will be
Peter Antupit 00:44:27
learning more from the archive of the podcast. You're
Christina Lewellen 00:44:31
gonna have to go back and be a day one
Christina Lewellen 00:44:33
listener. We've had some pretty incredible conversations, to be
Christina Lewellen 00:44:36
honest. We've gotten some great guests to come and be a part of
Christina Lewellen 00:44:40
what we're talking about. But also, you know, just having the
Christina Lewellen 00:44:43
regular opportunity to talk shop is kind of cool, you know, and
Christina Lewellen 00:44:46
just keeping up with what's going on with the trends and
Christina Lewellen 00:44:49
what you guys are dealing with, for sure.
Hiram Cuevas 00:44:51
So Peter, you've mentioned going to NAIS so that
Hiram Cuevas 00:44:54
you can kind of get a more of a 360 view of how the school
Hiram Cuevas 00:44:58
operates, how. Helped you improve, or has it helped you
Hiram Cuevas 00:45:02
improve your relationship with your head of school? Yeah,
Peter Antupit 00:45:05
great question. And funny story, you know, when,
Peter Antupit 00:45:09
whenever was NAIS was posted conference, I was like, I'll go
Peter Antupit 00:45:13
if nobody else wants to go, because I feel like we should be
Peter Antupit 00:45:15
represented there, so I was going to be the sole person
Peter Antupit 00:45:17
going. And then my head of school said, I'll go too. So it
Peter Antupit 00:45:21
helped a relationship, because we were there together. We sat
Peter Antupit 00:45:23
next to each other during the sessions. We talked here and
Peter Antupit 00:45:27
there and just passing each other in the hallway. I'm very
Peter Antupit 00:45:30
fortunate. I feel like I have a really good relationship with my
Peter Antupit 00:45:33
head of school, so sitting through the general sessions,
Peter Antupit 00:45:36
then talking about the sessions we both attended, absolutely
Peter Antupit 00:45:39
helped that relationship, and debriefing. What we've heard,
Peter Antupit 00:45:43
what we saw and what we didn't hear, is also valuable. And
Peter Antupit 00:45:47
bring it back to the senior leadership team. I did a variety
Peter Antupit 00:45:51
of sessions there, which also helps bridge that relationship,
Peter Antupit 00:45:54
because she didn't do anything that I did. So I went to
Peter Antupit 00:45:57
Kristina session about boards and AI, because that's always
Peter Antupit 00:46:00
something that's high on the list of things that are on my
Peter Antupit 00:46:04
plate that she wants me to be addressing and I need to be
Peter Antupit 00:46:07
addressing. But then I went to a great session about student
Peter Antupit 00:46:11
perfectionism and what we can do to help combat that. And that's
Peter Antupit 00:46:15
part of, I mean, my teeny little advising hat, but such a school
Peter Antupit 00:46:20
wide important thing to be talking about. So going there
Peter Antupit 00:46:24
absolutely helps that relationship, because it also
Peter Antupit 00:46:28
demonstrates that I want to be if I'm not already a school
Peter Antupit 00:46:32
leader and I'm not siloed in this tech directors role, CIO
Peter Antupit 00:46:37
role,
Bill Stites 00:46:37
and when you said poking your head in, like going
Bill Stites 00:46:40
around and just poking yourself into different things. I think
Bill Stites 00:46:43
conferences like that allow you to poke in from a perspective
Bill Stites 00:46:48
where you've got some grounding. Something that said, I remember
Bill Stites 00:46:51
going and presenting at case NACE with our alumni office, and
Bill Stites 00:46:56
then attending those other sessions. It just helps you be
Bill Stites 00:46:58
more informed with regards to the conversations that you have,
Bill Stites 00:47:02
because we all know what we do really touches across all
Bill Stites 00:47:06
aspects of school. Maybe at a very high level, you're not
Bill Stites 00:47:10
getting deep into the weeds, but the more you can talk with a
Bill Stites 00:47:13
level of fluency around these different things, you might be
Bill Stites 00:47:17
invited into those conversations and not be necessarily poking
Bill Stites 00:47:22
into them or injecting yourself. Oh, oh, we should bring Bill
Bill Stites 00:47:25
into this, or bring Peter or Hiram into this, because we know
Bill Stites 00:47:29
that they were either there or I heard them talking about this.
Bill Stites 00:47:32
It just you mentioned relationships. It just helps
Bill Stites 00:47:34
build all of
Peter Antupit 00:47:35
that. There's a funny way that I've started to
Peter Antupit 00:47:38
do that as well, which is when I walk the vendor Hall, I go
Peter Antupit 00:47:42
around, I pick up stuff, and I say, I'm picking this up for a
Peter Antupit 00:47:44
friend, because I'm not involved. I mean, I chaperone
Peter Antupit 00:47:47
trips with experiential Ed and trips, but I'm like, I'm going
Peter Antupit 00:47:50
to pick up all the flyers for all the experiential Ed trips
Peter Antupit 00:47:54
and hand those off to our person, Emily Clark, and say, I
Peter Antupit 00:47:57
saw these, and some of them sounded pretty cool. Again, it's
Peter Antupit 00:48:00
just that opening into a conversation
Christina Lewellen 00:48:03
that's kind of brilliant. So you bring home
Christina Lewellen 00:48:05
swag to like, open up a conversation that's fabulous.
Christina Lewellen 00:48:08
That's a good idea,
Peter Antupit 00:48:10
right? And it helps. It's like, oh yeah, you
Peter Antupit 00:48:13
saw that person. They cold called me. Is it worth reaching
Peter Antupit 00:48:17
out to them? It's like, Yeah, I think so. You know, your book
Peter Antupit 00:48:19
company that had a slightly different way of thinking about
Peter Antupit 00:48:21
it. Started a conversation with somebody about yearbook and
Peter Antupit 00:48:24
such. So all of that stuff helps. That's awesome. So
Christina Lewellen 00:48:29
Peter, before we finish things up and
Christina Lewellen 00:48:31
let you go about your day, tell us a little bit about what you
Christina Lewellen 00:48:33
do when you are not at school,
Unknown 00:48:35
nothing,
Christina Lewellen 00:48:39
naps and relaxation.
Peter Antupit 00:48:42
I am such a home buddy. My wife, like I
Peter Antupit 00:48:44
mentioned, is a teacher, and she works really hard, so I spend a
Peter Antupit 00:48:47
lot of time, not a lot of time supporting her. It sounds really
Peter Antupit 00:48:51
silly, but we have one kid who's off in college. Now it used to
Peter Antupit 00:48:54
be more around that we're doing a bit more travel now that he's
Peter Antupit 00:48:58
off, and so that's exciting. We're off to Italy in a couple
Peter Antupit 00:49:01
of months, looking forward to those types of things. We are
Peter Antupit 00:49:05
heavily invested in finding out what he's up to. He's a senior
Peter Antupit 00:49:09
in college, and so he's doing his job search and things like
Peter Antupit 00:49:12
that. I'm so boring. Honestly,
Christina Lewellen 00:49:16
I think that sounds blissful trips to Italy
Christina Lewellen 00:49:19
and like empty nesting. Oh, I love it. I think my blood
Christina Lewellen 00:49:23
pressure just went down. Listening to you talk about how
Christina Lewellen 00:49:25
boring your life was. Want to trade. I like the boring. I've
Christina Lewellen 00:49:30
got one who's a senior, but I got three others who are not.
Christina Lewellen 00:49:34
Good luck, crazy. It's a hard year. I think, to be a senior in
Christina Lewellen 00:49:37
college, there's a lot of crazy things going on in the world. So
Christina Lewellen 00:49:40
can be kind of a tough entry into the real world. Yeah, I
Christina Lewellen 00:49:44
love that you've spent some time with us, and that we've been
Christina Lewellen 00:49:46
able to get to know your background a little bit more.
Christina Lewellen 00:49:49
And I cannot thank you enough for all the time and energy that
Christina Lewellen 00:49:52
you put into the Atlas community. I know that my staff
Christina Lewellen 00:49:56
and I all just think so highly of you, and we're so grateful,
Christina Lewellen 00:49:58
and you're also just so relaxed. Reliable. You may be boring to
Christina Lewellen 00:50:01
you, but you are heck reliable to us, so we know that we can
Christina Lewellen 00:50:06
always reach out and get great answers from you. So thank you
Christina Lewellen 00:50:08
so much for all that you do for the Atlas team. Love this group.
Christina Lewellen 00:50:12
This was fun.
Peter Frank 00:50:15
This has been talking technology with Atlas,
Peter Frank 00:50:17
produced by the Association of Technology Leaders in
Peter Frank 00:50:20
Independent Schools. For more information about Atlas and
Peter Frank 00:50:24
Atlas membership, please visit the atlas.org if you enjoyed
Peter Frank 00:50:28
this discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and
Peter Frank 00:50:31
share this podcast with your colleagues in the independent
Peter Frank 00:50:34
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