Partner Talks: Jeff Shields from NBOA on AI, Governance, and the Power of Collaborative Leadership

Narrator 0:02
welcome to Talking technology with ATLIS, the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens. We'll hear stories from technology directors and other special guests from the Independent School community and provide you will focus learning and deep dive topics. And now please welcome your host, Christina Lewellen.

Christina Lewellen 0:25
Hello, everyone and welcome back to talking technology with ATLIS. I'm Christina Lewellen, the executive director of ATLIS,

Hiram Cuevas 0:32
and I'm hiring where Ross is Director of Information Systems and Academic Technology at St. Christopher's school in Richmond, Virginia.

Christina Lewellen 0:38
Hi, Ron. We're sad today because we have no bill,

Hiram Cuevas 0:42
we do not have a bill. That is a sad day. Indeed. He and I recorded

Christina Lewellen 0:45
a session without you. And that episode just dropped. And I'm not sure if you listened to that episode. But while you were gone, we assigned you some stuff, you know, kind of like in the vein of if you miss a meeting, you get the assignment. So if you haven't listened to that episode, you better go see what your homework assignment is. I

Hiram Cuevas 1:03
know I'm gonna have an extensive to do list, but I'm sure Yeah, payback can be hell.

Christina Lewellen 1:10
That's right. So now he's gone. So in the course of this conversation, I think we need to plant a couple of seeds of stuff that we're going to make bill do in the way of like, follow up. Maybe we should make him edit this

Hiram Cuevas 1:21
episode. Oh, definitely. Definitely. That's a great idea.

Christina Lewellen 1:24
So we need a lot of arms. We need to start and stop a bunch of times. He'll love it. Exactly. Alright, Bill, good luck and Godspeed. Today, I'm really excited. I want to jump in with our guests because I will admit that I have definitely a fan girl situation happening with our guests today. Today we welcome to the podcast, Jeff shields, Jeff, who is the King of all kings at the National Business Officers Association. How about you introduce yourself the real way rather than the fan girl way. But Jeff, welcome to our podcast. Well, we have

Jeff Shields 2:00
a mutual admiration society going because I'm a fan of yours as well. Christine, I have been since the first second I met you. I am Jeff shields. I'm the president and CEO of NBOA. Way. And MBIA represents nearly 1400 independent schools across the country, more in Canada, Mexico and around the globe. We also represent associations, business partners, with the interest of serving Business, Finance and Operations at pre K through 12 Independent School. So our primary members are CFOs, controllers, HR professionals, accounting staff, and other folks that contribute to business finance operations. So it's really great to be here on your podcast. And I'm glad I showed up. Because I heard what happens to guys like Bill when they don't show up. So I think I'm smart to have kept this appointment.

Christina Lewellen 2:53
For real. I mean, you might have been editing this episode, honestly, exactly. As the guest.

Jeff Shields 3:01
I am sincerely happy to be here and continue to contribute to ATLISes great success and your leadership and hopefully provide some insights from CFOs and independent schools, for your primary membership groups so that we can all advance our independent schools together. Yeah,

Christina Lewellen 3:18
we have so many areas of crossover that I just have come to truly value and love. But let's start first with you were one of the first people that I met and interacted with because I came from the association management space. And so I had represented other industries. But I was new to independent schools. And sometimes in in among our colleagues, I felt a little bit like a giraffe among zebras, I just felt different. And then I found you, and you are another giraffe except you're a giraffe that's been among the zebras for so long that you for sure, can easily flow. I was just in awe of the fact that you had this association management background, but you were also so comfortable in the world of independent schools. So can we start by just learning a little bit about you, and kind of your background and how you found yourself in this space? Sure.

Jeff Shields 4:12
I appreciate the question. And I relate 100% to how you feel so I'm going to make it really quick. I was working at the National Association of College University Business Officers. I had a really great run. That is the Association for CFOs in higher education. I was there for 10 years. I loved it. I didn't think there was going to be anything better than being the Senior Vice President of what was I when I left chief Planning Officer, that's what I was when I left the Kubo but then this job opened up at MBIA and everyone got in my ear about it. I'm gonna share something, Christina help you appreciate it and if I have one speck of influence or one modicum of being part of your tremendous success is that I think I kicked down the door so that more Association Executives like yourself could find their way into the roles that you're in, and others are in, within independent schools. Because I'll tell you, I went through the search process. And they told me the whole time, we're hiring a business officer from an independent school, but they kept advancing the in the search. And I was like, Okay, I'll play along as long as you are. And they just kept advancing me and advancing me. And then I got great advice from my search consultant who said, Jeff, just keep doing what you're doing. Because you're standing out because you're different. Your language is different, how you think about the business of associations is different. So just keep doing it. So that's what happened. I landed in the role of MBA away. I think you feel the same way. I loved higher education, but independent schools have my heart? Oh,

Christina Lewellen 5:47
absolutely.

Jeff Shields 5:48
I serve such an amazing, smart, kind, hardworking, membership, that it's a pleasure to do what I do. And so I've been doing this for 13 years, and I've never looked back, Lucky. 13. But believe me, Christina, believe me, when I first started, I thought, how I'm going to remember all these school names. And you know, in higher ed, New Mexico State was in New Mexico, but St. Christopher's, well, that could be anywhere. It could be. I don't even get me started on any of the other common vernaculars out there for the different types of schools, you're like, which state are you talking about? I thought, This is gonna be so hard. But I knew the work, I knew CFOs of educational institutions, and that translated, but there's an intimacy with independent schools, the community is much more connected, the relationships are much more important. That's what I felt I really had to learn was the intimacy of your members in mind, to the work to the teachers, to the students to the families, I think that's the biggest difference I experience between higher ed, and independent schools. But I'm so glad you're a giraffe with me. And I think it's been great. Welcome

Christina Lewellen 7:00
to the zoo, right? Welcome to the zoo. The mentorship that you provided me in those early days really did help me see exactly what you're talking about, that there's this wonderful path, and that the partnership can be very powerful, the partnership of expertise around how to run a best in class, professional association, combined with the passion for how our members are delivering on the mission. It's a really great role. And I just want to publicly thank you for being such a wonderful Shepherd. For me in the early days, you're

Jeff Shields 7:30
being very kind. But I do think what we have in common is, I think we do really have a strong affinity for our members. And we both want to build an organization that's worthy of them. That's how I felt, I want them to think of NBA be really proud of it and have it convey the stature, the professionalism, the expertise that they deliver every day, I wanted their professional association to reflect that. So if I have achieved that, at the end of my run, I'll be a really happy person. And I just get the sense that you feel the same way about your members as well.

Christina Lewellen 8:07
Yeah, absolutely. And so that kind of leads me to one of my first questions for you, one of my first big questions is that you've been around for 13 years. And I'm curious how the role of the business officer has changed. You know, I think having you on this podcast is gonna give our core membership and opportunity to kind of see in, you know, we know, technology has changed a lot in 15 years,

Jeff Shields 8:28
tremendously. And it's changed the Business Officers role. Yeah.

Christina Lewellen 8:32
So that's what I want to talk to you about. Tell me a little bit about what it was like in the beginning versus what it's like now, what kind of big picture shifts? Have you been around to bear witness to?

Jeff Shields 8:41
Yeah, it's changed so much. And remembering the audience that's likely listening to this, I will tell you that when I started 13 years ago, business manager was the most common title of our primary member, I would say many of them had oversight of it. And that that it included the it that was used in the classroom, in addition to the it to support the operations of the school. So I think they had that I think there was a strong accounting, focus, finance, taxes, kind of that business manager, it conjured up ideas of the green eyeshade, and the stacks of Ledger's and a sharpened pencil. And it's so transformed, and I will tell you, I can almost market time and I've really been the beneficiary of this trajectory. But I came to MBIA in 2010. Now, we had just gotten through the Great Recession. And I think the impact of the Great Recession on heads of schools and trustees predominantly forced the community to look at that chief financial role in a very different way. I think many trustees and many heads of schools felt that we were caught quite flat footed around the Great Recession. The endowments were supposed to save us but our endowments are upside down. What are we gonna do about families who can't pay this tuition. We've always been nervous about that we continue to be nervous about that. Very wealthy people, all of a sudden, weren't wealthy anymore, what are we gonna do about it. And so, because of all of that, they looked at the world differently. And I'm proud to say today, the primary titles chief financial officer, or assistant head of finance and operations. In fact, the title that's growing at a faster rate is the Chief Operating Officer, we're seeing that more and more so in just 13 years. I mean, that's a pretty big trajectory. I was the business manager. And now I'm the CFO or the CEO of this multi 10s of multimillion dollar operation. I mean, that's what changed. But I really start to think about the recession, the impact it had on schools, heads, trustees, and I really think that's what accelerated it and be away was just trying to meet the moment and keep pace with it, and keep growing with our primary member who I now believe, are firmly footed as a strategic partner to the head of school. They're in the boardroom. They're a leader at their campus. Very awesome. When the head of schools go on for a long period of time. It's the CFO that might be in charge of the campus. So it's changed tremendously. And the people they hire into that role have changed at the same time, many grew with the profession. But now what they're looking for has changed.

Christina Lewellen 11:22
That's so incredible, because I really feel it's interesting that the great recession was your kind of tectonic shift, right? The plates shifting under your feet. And that's what happened in technology with the pandemic.

Jeff Shields 11:34
Yes, yes. That's so funny. It's very similar. Yeah,

Christina Lewellen 11:38
it was some kind of big external force that nudged it into a leadership role. And so that's interesting to me, because we at ATLIS find ourselves helping our tech leaders become actual leaders. So I would imagine that now because that role has changed. Let's go to that. Let's pause on that. What does the role look like today, I'm sure it's much more than counting pennies, like it's got to be hard to hire for.

Jeff Shields 12:01
It's really interesting, because when I talk to business officers, the amount they talk about accounting or finance or the 990, tax, it's miniscule, it never really is there. They talk a lot about facilities. They talk a lot about technology. They talk a lot about human resources, and the issues of recruiting and retaining a quality staff. They talk a lot about enrollment, I mean, the whole dialogue is elevated. So while they still have oversight on the business, finance operational portfolio of the school, which is critically important, world class education starts with world class operations supporting it. I believe that 100%. So they still have that in their portfolio. But what they're engaged in is much more elevated. The trustees, I use that example. Next to the head of school, the CFO at a school provides more staff support to the trustees than any other roles. So they are generally managing a number of board level committees. Like I said, they're in the boardroom, and they are that strategic partner role as the head and trustees build their strategic plan. How do they support it with a strategic financial plan? How do they harness the resources necessary to fulfill not just the mission, but the vision that the head and the trustees have for the school? It's really

Christina Lewellen 13:20
incredible, Hiram, I don't know if you've had a chance to meet Jeff. But let me do our little podcast introduction. Jeff, this is Hiram Hiram. That's Jeff. Does this resonate with you, Hiram? I mean, isn't it kind of blowing your mind the trajectory of a business manager to a CFO and the parallels with like an IT manager into now the CIOs and Technology Director roles? What are your thoughts on that? You live through a lot of that you've been at your school a long time.

Hiram Cuevas 13:47
Yeah. So I've been here at St. Christopher's now for 32 years. And I've started actually, as a science teacher, in the middle school, when you mentioned 2008, I find it really fascinating when you longitudinally, when I look at where we were, at that period of time, we were still building the essentially the infrastructure of the school during this time, and there was very little conversation about academic tech in the truest sense. I mean, yeah, you have the occasional savvy teacher who developed a webpage for their class. But by mid 2000s, you started seeing certain student information systems come to being and I would say the budgets were starting to experience a more growth because of the need for some of these centralized systems so that we were perceiving the siloed effect of data being all over the place, and that conversation still happens today. And so to me, what's fascinating is, you know that tectonic shift is, as Christina mentioned earlier, I think was also the shift for more academic technology resources being put into place. All of this makes tremendous sense and the CTO of today is very different than the CTO of you. Yesteryear, because it was really in all aspects, many times just a glorified network administrator that was put into place who happen to know how to do networking and pull wire and access points and things of that nature. And then today, it's managing the people who are also your instructional techs and who are also navigating the curriculum with the school leadership as well. So it's a fascinating parallel. And it'd be a great study, great white paper to examine the relationship between these two,

Christina Lewellen 15:30
it seems like the school has just gotten more complex, right? Things have just gotten elevated, because school itself is a more complex venture.

Jeff Shields 15:40
I will say from where I sit, like I said, the business manager probably had some level of responsibility for it, I would say the IT manager probably reported into the business manager, because that was the level of staffing that the school had available. And that made sense, right, the business finance operations. What I remember quite vividly is as technology emerged and got more complicated, I remember discussions about getting smart boards in every classroom. I hope I'm not dating myself, and everyone's like a turn this podcast off. But I remember getting smart boards in every classroom.

Christina Lewellen 16:14
No, I think they're gonna go with you. They follow through with you, and they feel that pain. But

Jeff Shields 16:19
then I remember what one of my most vivid recollections about five or six years into my role, but I'm really a horrible person to ask about when that this specific time to things is this discussion of Do we have a technology person for operations and a technology person for me? Is it merged? Are they partners? Are they equal? I mean, I remember schools really wrestling with their arch org chart in response to how technologies were changing at independent schools. And how do we staff IT and business officers were engaged in that. But the complexity of technology, I think, is what allowed the business officer to focus more in a kind of a different direction of a portfolio, though in some cases, the technology person still is reporting to the business officer. But it also at the same time, Business Officers realized that I can't be an expert on anything. And technology was getting so complex, like you said, Christina, that you really were looking for a different level of expertise, schools needed a different level of expertise. I can say the same thing about human resources, by the way. Oh, for sure. I

Hiram Cuevas 17:21
would say there's a new evolution going on right now with the whole compliance in the cybersecurity and privacy. That's the new shift right now that schools are experiencing in terms of the staffing needs of a school 100%

Jeff Shields 17:35
and cyber insurance. I mean, we were talking about that. We did a white paper with ATLIS on that very topic. And I agree the complexities of compliance, which, if I left that out, I think that's also what drove a lot of the maturation not just of the CFO role, but like I just mentioned, in an aside of the HR professional role, because of the complexities of HR compliance with an independent schools, so yeah, it's a different ballgame. Our schools are quite different. I'd

Christina Lewellen 18:05
love to hit on some of those trends that you're seeing Jeff, or that your core members or Business Officers are watching. What are they kind of wrestling right now? And I think my next question will be, what projects are shaking it and DOA? Those things always go hand in hand, right. And I know how you and your team run the organization. So whatever it is that your members are wrestling, I know you guys are then trying to respond and support them. So if I could, what are the things you're watching? And what are the things I'm VOA is kind of working on right now.

Jeff Shields 18:41
I think that's a great question. And fortunately, or unfortunately, some of the topics, some of the trends, can you call it a trend if it was a trend 30 years ago, and it's still a trend today? I mean, I think Business Officers are very concerned about enrollment access affordability of our schools. And I share this story at the beginning of each year. If I'm talking to a business officer for the first time, I say, How's your enrollment look for the year and if they tell me they're at budget, or they've exceeded budget, I know that business officer is going to spend that academic year being strategic during the strategic work they wanted to do, because they've reached that significant threshold. It's hitting their enrollment number.

Christina Lewellen 19:21
So interesting. If

Jeff Shields 19:23
they tell me, we are short, we're short by 20 students. I know that Business Officers going to spend that school year trying to plug in that gap. They're going to have to find that revenue someplace else, and it's going to take them a while to find it. They're going to be chasing it for a good bit. That's fascinating. Enrollment and finances for the year obviously go hand in hand enrollment is responsible admissions. Tuition is responsible for 80% of our school's budget operated by John the annual basis and so where it goes enrollment, there goes the finances and so I think that's a big deal, which is why I'm so pleased in really responding to your question. I'm so pleased and grateful to Heather hurl her leadership with the Enrollment Management Association and the strong partnership we've formed between EMA and MBIA, because I really think modeling, the important partnership between Business Officers and enrollment managers around what is always near the top of the list, if it's not at the top of the list for most schools is really important. I'd say. Secondly, is the recruitment and retention of high quality faculty and staff? I have heard so many stories, and I'm sure you're I mean, I can't imagine a school right now going to market for it, and how challenging that might be, if they're looking for a senior level IT professional, and they have a vacancy for that. But all positions are challenging. You know, we heard it during the pandemic food service, bus drivers, maintenance, facilities, teachers, and we all know what's going on with the teacher profession. So I think my members spend a lot of time looking at compensation benefits. How do we stay competitive? How do we recruit? How do we retain and to your question, we just released mission anchored compensation strategies, after an 18 month research effort to really kind of unearth what we thought was very innovative and new in this space of compensation. And not just for faculty, but for faculty and staff. So we were very fortunate to get some support from the Ford Foundation. And we just recently dropped the findings, the research findings, Implementation Guide and 10 case studies from independent schools, who we think are doing some really new and different things that school should take a look at. And consider, we're really excited about having that conversation throughout the year with our friends ATLIS. Yep, the other regional business officer organization, state and regional associations, they just bring that work to life. And the reason why I'm going to highlight that is I'm going to make 1/3 point is that the business model, the business model, at independent schools, is under tremendous strain. So rather than approach it and say the business model is broken, let's throw it out. Let's walk away and start from scratch. What we're trying to do is unpack it. And so what we've done with compensation benefits is taken the primary expense that our schools have probably next to facilities, deferred maintenance, the primary expense, though in the operating budget, let's just say that, take a look at that. And let's think differently about that piece of it. And then our next step will be let's take another big let's look at tuition. Let's take another look at that and see what's happening tuition. So kind of break it apart. So it's not this big, hairy gorilla staring us in the face and saying, You're never going to touch me, you're never going to change me. And so we're trying to break it apart. So that's why I'm super excited about this research that was just shared with the Independent School community to help schools take a step forward and move the needle on compensation benefits.

Christina Lewellen 22:51
Can we pause on that for a second? Because this was a really big project. It's very impressive. What surprised you about that research, Jeff? I mean, your team was 18 months into it. But at the end of the day, as the finding started circling back, after you've been in the industry for a long time, was there anything that sort of took your breath away? Or made you at least raise an eyebrow a little and go? Oh, that's interesting.

Jeff Shields 23:13
Well, I'll tell you something that I found tremendously satisfying, was that, first of all, so many people wanted to be engaged in the conversation. So we knew we were onto something, because the level of response we got from the community, on the initial survey work, we did focus groups, I think we did eight focus groups with 10 individuals in each. And these were all from different schools. Everyone wanted to share their story they, they wanted to share, and they wanted to learn. So people were really engaged in those conversations. And then I would say, very satisfying, that we have, we have innovative stories to tell there is new and different happening in our schools. And I'm always excited to hold the mirror up and say, look at this great work you're doing you are thinking differently. And I don't know about your members, but our members are so humble. And they always think that anything we're doing no matter how brilliant how much money it saves, how efficient it helps the school be. They just like, well, everyone must be doing it. If I thought of it, everyone else must be doing it. No. And so we had chance to tell really great stories and highlight the partnership between the business officer and the human resources professional, because obviously when it comes to recruitment and retention of faculty and staff, that's a really important partnership. How can we create a competitive compensation benefits package? And how can we support our HR professionals with recruitment and retention?

Christina Lewellen 24:40
I love that. And I love that you were able to kind of dig into some of those case studies. If we hover for a second over the idea that there's some retention, massive retention issues in the faculty on this podcast and then in some of the fall speaking opportunities that I had Jeff, it was funny to me because AI and AI tools are so incredible, and can really help the lift of our educators. And yet as I talked to Hiram and Bill and Bill's wife, as an educator, and we were talking about on a recent episode, how some teachers feel like, they're shortchanging students, if they use AI, or they're kind of short cutting or cheating a little bit, where they could have AI, literally write a lesson plan for a sub, in a matter of minutes that they can then just go tweak. But they're not always using those tools, because they feel like, maybe it's not. Okay. So it's interesting tools are there, the resources are there, it can make us work smarter and more efficiently, it might be able to help with these HR burnout issues. And yet, there's a little resistance. So my question for you is, what are you seeing with your business officers? Are they into AI? Are they afraid of AI? Are they leveraging it yet? Or Not yet? Not really,

Jeff Shields 26:01
you know, it's so interesting is to hear you talk about it, because it's still so new, it feels so new. And I know you're so immersed in it, and so well versed in it. And I just think you know, I'll go back to that what I thought was a terrible analogy. But you said it resonated with you that smartboard observation, remember, the SMART Boards went into classrooms, but many teachers without sufficient training, and professional development, use them like the chalkboard, because that's what they knew. So I think the same thing has to happen with AI. And I really think this is an important responsibility for IT professionals who are going to be the experts in the lead on this. And that is build that bridge for your faculty, build a bridge for them to walk across with you, and show them what's waiting on the other side, show them the advantages, show them the opportunities, and give them a menu of options. And then let them pick and choose. And you know, it's like Christina, once I had that first success, then that next success next SSH. But I often think about that, when I remember when technology was changing so fast, and schools didn't know what to invest in. And they were buying a lot of tools. And what got lost in the shuffle was kind of helping the faculty use those tools. And nothing would frustrated Business Officer more than say, I found the money for that brand new computer. There it is, it's still in the box in the corner of the classroom. But really, how do we build that bridge for faculty? How do we, you know, I say this a lot about associations? How do we solve for time for our members? But how do we solve for time for the faculty who have so much on their plate? How are they going to find the time to understand really the impact and that's why I'm so grateful, you've really taken a leadership role among independent schools to say don't be afraid of it. Here are the opportunities. And I think our primary job is give people a menu of options. And let them choose among many to see what fits them fits their teaching style fits their classroom fits their curriculum, or their subject matter expertise. But build that bridge and give them options.

Christina Lewellen 28:13
High room is your business office use an AI at all. I mean, I'm hearing some stories, right? Like people are like, Oh, I use it to craft an email or an offer letter, of course redacting all sorts of personal information. Absolutely. But like, you know, rewrite that email with a kinder tone. I also heard some folks saying that, you know, I use it to write how many snow day cancellation emails can one person right, like, you know, use it for the mundane stuff, any of your admin types using it? Yeah,

Hiram Cuevas 28:42
so our advancement office was going to add an archivist position at our school. And this was just on the initial conversations about AI and and I said, Well, let's go ahead and do a test. And we went ahead and we created a job description for an archivist position. In a K 12. School. Typically, what you would do is, if you're on the talent management group, you would end up going to four or five different schools websites and looking up what their position descriptions were and gathering all that information. And sure enough, what we found was Chad GPT did a wonderful job of summarizing what we were hoping this position would be and all we had to do was kind of tweak it and personalize it so that it fit our community. It's interesting, I find that when you can personalize the instruction, regardless of if its introduction to a laptop introduction to a piece of software or artificial intelligence. you personalize it and you make it useful for them and their personal lives. All of a sudden, it has a lot more significance in terms of its overall value. And Development Office realized quickly, oh, if I could do it for this, I can also do solicitation letters. I can also write emails. I can also do a whole bunch of other things that take a lot of time. They're leveraging it in direction means that I had unanticipated consequences as a result, it was great. Yeah. Well,

Christina Lewellen 30:04
like just said, just show them once how it works. And off, they go with their own creative, brilliant minds, right? Yep.

Jeff Shields 30:10
I still think we're early on in kind of transformational efficiency, or really kind of changing the game. I'm thinking about customer service, right? Because your members in mind members are really internal customer service providers, right, in many cases. And so how is it going to transform that? How are we going to be more responsive to our faculty and staff internally, how we're going to be more responsive to our students and families externally? So I think our members are still in the very early stages of thinking about how is it going to change processes within the business office in really significant ways. But I still think it's new. But you know, I'm hearing you and you're like, it's been around a while. Jeff, come on, let's start using them. Like, I mean, what did it just start in March? I don't remember I get I have the worst timeline of any one of the world. Sorry,

Christina Lewellen 31:00
but I'm just saying, AI been around 60 years, you know, oh, my God, but we're just now. No, it's okay. It's been around a while. Well, that we'll get to it. Exactly.

Hiram Cuevas 31:13
Come on. You remember Clippy,

Christina Lewellen 31:15
right? Oh,

Unknown Speaker 31:16
my God.

Christina Lewellen 31:17
I mean, I think those of us who understand and remember Clippy just thinking about that little bouncing bugger kind of brings joy to your heart. Right? I

Jeff Shields 31:24
am really in the deep end right now with my technology colleagues.

Christina Lewellen 31:32
We promised we wouldn't get too techie on you. And yeah, here we are.

Unknown Speaker 31:34
I know. Right? Oh, my God, there you go.

Christina Lewellen 31:37
So what I have to do, and I think the core of our discussion is what you and I, as humans and as peers and colleagues have figured out is that when the tech team and the business team worked together, the schools are so much better off. And you hit on that a moment ago, as you're talking about us being customer service providers that we have a clientele within our schools that we aim to deliver. And together we can be very powerful. So I'd love to just kind of give you the floor for a minute, Jeff to tell us a little bit about, you know, that relationship has evolved. I don't know about you, but I love it. When I go to a school and I come across a tech leader who has an incredibly strong relationship with their business office. It's just so awesome for the students. So talk to me a little bit about how that relationship is today. And how really, it should be? Oh,

Jeff Shields 32:28
absolutely. Well, I mean, and I'll definitely focus on the business officer and technology leader relationship. But the biggest issue I've come across in my career since working with independent schools, is everyone talking about how siloed we are, whether it's faculty from staff, whether it's advancement from admissions, whether it's the CFO and technology, that we're all siloed? And it's interesting to me, how does that happen? Because I can't imagine that a head of school comes in and says, I don't want any of you to talk to each other. I just want you to drill down in your own offices and do your work and don't collaborate.

Christina Lewellen 33:06
Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Yeah, don't collaborate. Yeah, independent schools, we don't talk to each other. Right. And we're

Jeff Shields 33:12
such tight communities in so many ways. So I think organizations and I don't think is just independent schools, I think organizations can tend towards that. But my larger message is that if we all agree that that's not the most effective way to lead an independent school, then why keep doing it. And I do think having opportunities like this gives us a chance to talk about the CFO, it relationship, and I used an example a while ago, is that every school has a strategic plan. I think technology is always a central part of a school's strategic plan. How are we going to harness technology to do XYZ fill in the goal fill in the objective, but technology has a place in almost everything we do from facilities construction, from changing the pedagogy from greater like I was talking about earlier, greater efficiencies in the business office Ay ay ay and all of its promise. So I mean, technology is pervasive. And so I think it's a huge opportunity really led by the head of school and trustees, what is our plan? What are we trying to achieve? And then the IT person say, How can I help advance that strategy? How can I do what I do around technology? How does that support it? And then make sure they're in step with the CFO to say, where can we find the resources to do it and do it really well? I just think it starts there. And I can't think of a CFO or IT professional that doesn't want to have that conversation, versus the day to day minutia that we can all get caught up in which is very necessary, but doesn't really drive us right. That's not the where the excitement is. The excitement is I want to take my school from here to here. And what's really cool is I think CFOs and ites can see that I think CFOs can see it when they've moved to school. That was maybe financially fragile to financially thriving. I think an IT professional can see a school that, wow, I help them implement this. And now we're able to do this and have this impact on students. I mean, it's so palpable. So I think we just need to take advantage of it. But we have to have that conversation. Because if the ideas are there from it, but the resources are, then that's a no go, right. And if we're spending money on things that aren't going to move the needle, even though they're the flavor of the month, from an IT standpoint, that's not good, either. That's money out the door. So I really think that partnership and that communication is critical. I love that. It's high stakes.

Christina Lewellen 35:40
It really is, you know, this is where your view of leadership, I mean, really, that is the definition of leadership, right? That partnership is what we owe our schools. It's certainly what our heads of schools deserve, because that is not an easy job. I know that Jeff, you and your team have contributed a chapter to a book that ATLIS is producing on leadership, and we couldn't think of a more perfect person, we also invited you to be our keynote speaker at our annual conference this year in April, we'll be in Reno. And we've invited you to the main stage because we think that this message that you're carrying around the partnership, and breaking down these silos is really the true definition of the leadership that our schools deserve. So multiple hats off to you in that vein, because I really think that it seems so simple. And yet we kind of get in our own way. Sometimes we're stressed out, we're human.

Jeff Shields 36:34
I think all of us are crunched for time at our schools, we have to remember that everyone's well intended. And the daily tasks to do lists can really take us over. But I think it's so important for everyone, especially everyone on that heads administrative team, to make sure they carve out the time to be strategic, take that pause, take a step back out of the day to day and think about what am I really what is my overarching goal for this year? What are we going to look back on this year and accomplish? And how does that support the overall strategy of the head and the trustees and the school overall, and I'm very grateful for your invitation. I'm really looking forward to be with your colleagues and your community. in Reno and April, we

Christina Lewellen 37:16
generally have a pretty good time, don't we hire him?

Jeff Shields 37:18
I bet you do. If Hiram is an example of it,

Hiram Cuevas 37:22
I think it's going to be a lot of fun. That's what I think there is no loss of fun. Yes,

Christina Lewellen 37:26
exactly. So I want to come to another area of your expertise, Jeff, and that's in governance. So you started your career, you're an association management professional, you are a certified Association Executive. And you've served in leadership positions in the association community. And so I'm gonna guess you're pretty good at governance. I'm curious how that has evolved either through the like lens of nbofc. Like how has, in the time that you've been there, I'm sure that you have a great relationship with your board and that you're there's a lot of trust there. So how is your governance sort of evolved? And do you think that it sort of sets an example when these business officers go back and have their own governance challenges at their schools? Obviously, associations are different than schools. But there's a shared independent board structure, and it can be a very powerful partnership. So what are your thoughts on kind of where governance is today? And I think that like you talked about all these HR challenges, the onset and the wide, sweeping acceptance now of AI, trustees are like, Oh, my goodness, what am I supposed to be involved in? What am I not supposed to be involved in? What are your thoughts on kind of where we are governance wise?

Jeff Shields 38:39
To your point, I love governance. I think I'm a nerd for governance. And I just think, especially where you're in the seat I'm in and the seat you're in. It's just really important. And I always talk to my staff about it, because sometimes the staff and the staff in schools can think the function of the board of trustees or the function of the board of directors is quite opaque, right? It's mysterious. It's something that happens in a room on a Monday night, or, you know, we go to this great location, and we have a meeting. But I tell my staff, I invest most of my time in governance, our relationship with the board chair, my focus on succession planning of board leadership, and the relationship with the board. Because you never know when we need to draw from that account, when we have to draw from the bank. And I tell them, the reason why we can move towards this big initiatives, the max compensation project, for example. And the reason why we can get board support is because we've made those investments. We've built that trust we spent that time and so that's the dividend that we get paid. During the pandemic, when things are really rough and inflation starting to go through the roof. That's when we can say you know what, we need a higher than average staff salary increase, because that's where we're at and we're gonna have to draw from that account. So I can't underestimate that would be the best advice I could give a future CEO. And I'll tell you, my CEO and Akufo, when I took this job said, Remember, Jeff, it's all about relationships. And I've taken that to heart. And so I invest a lot of time, relationships take time. And so that's number one. But you know what, Christina, I still learned something new about governance, I think at least every year, and we implement something new. We have governance on right now our board talks about pace and space. And this is kind of in the under the rubric of our commitment to DNI. So this is out under inclusiveness. So we're trying to pay attention at our board meetings, to pace and space to make sure that we're as inclusive aboard as possible that everyone finds their footing, and has the entree to participate. So you know, there's always just things that we're constantly working to improve to enhance. And all of my members are in the boardrooms. So they know a good governance looks like they also know what bad governance looks like. And they don't want to replicate that in their professional association. But they're so eager to learn. And yes, I would say, the highest compliment I get is when board members hate to leave the board when they turn out, or when a board member or board chair says we do this at the NBA board meeting. And I brought it back to my school and they love it. What's better than that? What's better than that?

Christina Lewellen 41:25
You're totally right. I love pace and space. That's incredible pace

Jeff Shields 41:30
and space. I got that from one of our board members. Yep. Joe Carter, who's the VP of Business Development for United educators, they contributed to our white paper, pace and space. We've been ruminating on that. And what does that look like? Because we're so efficient. Sometimes we leave people out. Everyone thinks and learns and communicates differently. So we need to sometimes you just need to slow it down. Sometimes it's okay to have a 30 minute break, and let the ideas churn a little bit before you come back in the boardroom. I love

Christina Lewellen 42:00
that that. Okay, really cool. Love that resonates on every level. I know you're gonna hate this, but I got to bring up the fact that you have an award named after you. Okay, see, I know you're shaking your head you're upset about it

Jeff Shields 42:15
got upset about I'm humbled by it. It Right. was not my idea, by the way? Well, I'm

Christina Lewellen 42:21
sure it wasn't, it was not. I think it speaks to the impact that you've had let's phrase the question this way. Tell us about the award. But I think that it comes from a place at least as I've observed, and I've experienced myself, do you have it so deep in your soul to be a great mentor, whether you're helping me come into the community, or whether you are helping your board members find their pace and space? So if you could just tell us a little bit about is it the Jeffrey shields Innovation Award

Jeff Shields 42:50
for school business operations? Yes, unbelievable. It goes to a school, it's our only award that goes to a school not to an individual, which is great, because our members like ATLIS, our members, our schools, individuals, I'm humbled by it, it was the way the board decided to recognize my 10 years of service. And it'd be way, it was very generous of them. We give out a lot of awards named after people who are still with us. And so sometimes that's a little awkward. But there's nothing more awkward than talking about an award that is named after you. But I'll tell you what I think about when I think about the award, and it's not that what I think about when I think about that award, is it gives us a platform and an opportunity to talk about the innovation that's happening in our schools. So just like I highlighted from the max compensation project around comp and benefits, what makes me fulfilled the most about that award is that gives us a chance to spotlight schools that are doing really great things in business, finance and operations. So I'm really pleased to see

Christina Lewellen 43:48
mentorship, you like the mentorship. Exactly, yeah.

Jeff Shields 43:53
And I love telling those stories, because I'm so proud of our schools, and I'm so proud of the work that our members are doing. And we didn't have an award like that, you know, we had a lot of individual achievement awards, which are wonderful and well deserved. And folks work at the schools for 1020 30 years and do amazing work. They've really put blood sweat and tears into their job. But this was a chance to say you're doing something really special and unique and other schools can learn from you. If you can do it, maybe another school could do it or do something similar with the resources they have. So that's what makes me most happy about that award.

Hiram Cuevas 44:30
She asked me if I take all these little nuggets here. I mean it there's no doubt I'm already bringing back some of them here in Richmond, Virginia in terms of imitation being the greatest form of flattery. I love the pace and space and light of how I hear so many tech directors talking about scope creep. And it's really important sometimes to take a step back. So in your world, you've got your crystal ball Bill Stites is sending it to you from Spain. Yeah. Nice. And so we want to get a sense of what do you see coming down the pipe On in the short term future, and then I'm going to ask you perhaps five years down the road, what do you envision?

Jeff Shields 45:05
So I'll say we've covered the short term, I think. And again, I hope this doesn't make me sound like a dinosaur. But the whole AI conversation reminds me of when the internet and websites really started to take off. And Christina, I know you were probably in junior high.

Christina Lewellen 45:21
I was not, but thank you. Okay,

Jeff Shields 45:23
okay. Okay. But I was working for associations. And you know, we were talking about, we were saying, Oh, my gosh, we're not going to have jobs, right? The web is going to put us out of business, no one's going to need associations anymore. Because all the information is readily available, because that's what we did, right? We curated information, and now they're going to have access to it. And we're going to be wiped out. A colleague of mine says associations are like sharks and cockroaches like nothing can kill us. And it's because people want to connect with people who do what they do, who understand them, and who value what they value. And so that's why associations, I think we'll get past it. But anyway, so I think the impact of AI is something we should very much be exploring, thinking about, how do we harness it to realize greater efficiency and better serve our students and families and our internal customers as well, faculty, staff, administrators? So I think we have to figure that out. I think in the long term, schools, thriving schools will see that they become increasingly more entrepreneurial, in their approach to the work the business model of the school. And I think we're going to see, and we see it now, a lot of the innovation awards are going to schools that really looked at themselves and said, What do we do really well? How can we monetize it to generate non tuition revenue that really makes it different at our school, that some of the early award recipients have done that? What did we already do? How do we monetize it? And I think those conversations are going to continue, because the pressure on tuition is not going to subside, right, that will continue to increase. And yet we know, I often say we're in the ultimate people business, people aren't going to get less expensive, people only get more expensive. So we can't artificially restrain tuition. And think we can still grow people, we can still hire high quality for faculty and staff. So I think we have to find different ways to fortify the system, different ways to feed this system. And I think schools will become increasingly more entrepreneurial, and find on tuition revenue streams, to help strengthen the business model, take pressure off of fundraising, financial aid, and tuition budgets. That's what I see five years from, I think we'll be talking more about that. And I think every school will have their own story. Every school say, here's what we're doing. What are you doing? Oh, well, we decided to do this. And I think it'll be really exciting, exciting time. And I think IT professionals can play a key role in that. Yeah.

Christina Lewellen 47:49
And I have no doubt that and VOA and ATLIS will be there to help share their stories.

Unknown Speaker 47:54
I love that right on.

Christina Lewellen 47:56
You know, I really like the way that your brain works. Jeff, I love how you think. And as we start to wrap up this conversation, I would love to know, as we're in this period of transition, you know, it's the end of the year, we're going through the holidays. And so it's always a period of reflection. So you Jeff shields, what are you reflecting on from your past year? And what do you think I mean, I don't know if your resolutions kind of a guy, I tend not to be I'm more of like a goal setting kind of a person. But as you look ahead to the next year, just in your own space, and in your own personal aspirations, what are you thinking about?

Jeff Shields 48:38
It's so interesting, I hope this doesn't come off too corny, or self serving, but I've had a space where I really love what I do. I love who I do it with. And I love who I do it for. So I'm just really grateful for that. Because I know too many people that have this Sunday dreads where they think about their work week. I don't have the Sunday dreads. I mean, work is work, right? We work hard, but I don't have the Sunday dreads I go after and like I'm breathing, I go after it, like, you know, I'm walkie. So I'm just so grateful that I'm in a profession, and I work within a membership that I just have so much respect for. I just have so much respect for the work our members do. And it's just incredibly grateful for that I can't see myself doing anything different right now. So I guess that's a good feeling. So I'm just full of gratitude. You know, I love Thanksgiving. I like it. It's probably my favorite holiday. For that reason. I guess my resolution, if anyone would join me in a resolution is that, let's just stop being too hard on ourselves, right? Let's give ourselves a break. We do really great things for students and families every single day, and just breathe and recognize that enough. I know we've got a million problems and I knew some of the rebate, and I know we have to address them. But I just don't think we take enough time to say look at how I changed yeah This student, this family helped this colleague today, I think it happens a million times. I just don't think we breathe and take enough to do that. And I'm saying it to our community as much as I shouldn't say it to myself because I'm a little hyper, but that would be a resolution as we look into the next year.

Christina Lewellen 50:16
I love that. And you know what, it leads me perfectly into our final. Hiram knows, and usually our other co host Bill is with us. I always like to ask at least one question for everyone on the podcast. And so we're gonna go light and fluffy this week because we are recording the week of Thanksgiving. Jeff, what you just said about gratitude and just go into work happy it just really touched my heart. Like I got a little misty because I feel that way too. It makes me so happy that you said that out loud. So thank you so much. So my question of course, in the space of gratitude, I need to know from each of you what flavor pie Are you come in first and what are you most grateful for? Hiram? Pecan

Unknown Speaker 50:58
pie?

Christina Lewellen 50:59
Pecan pie? Really? Yes.

Hiram Cuevas 51:01
Love it. Love pecan pie.

Christina Lewellen 51:03
That's not what would be my first guess. That's awesome. I'm gonna let you have that whole pie. That's not my favorite. Really? Oh, I enjoy pecan pie. Okay, you and Jeff can fight over the pecan pie with vanilla

Jeff Shields 51:14
ice cream. Right Hiram has to have vanilla ice cream. Absolutely. Pumpkin pie has to have whipped cream. But yes, pecan pie has ever no ice cream.

Christina Lewellen 51:22
Yeah, this has gotten very specific.

Jeff Shields 51:23
But that's not my pie. My pie is cherry pie. But this big cherry pie space.

Hiram Cuevas 51:29
Cherry Pie is very good.

Jeff Shields 51:30
I know. I just love it. I just love it. That's my pie. For me.

Christina Lewellen 51:34
I'm allergic to gluten. And so whatever pie is the gluten free pie that my doting darling mother makes for me specifically, away from all the other pie crust. That's my pie. I don't even know what's in it. You're

Jeff Shields 51:47
still her little girl. There you go. That's awesome.

Christina Lewellen 51:51
What are you guys grateful for this year? What do you say and thanks for? For me. It's

Hiram Cuevas 51:55
my new extended family. My daughter just got married and and it's so wonderful to have the Cuevas trigone clients together. That's awesome.

Jeff Shields 52:02
It's not professionally really his personally related but my daughter is 17. She's a senior in high school. She's looking at colleges. I'm just beside myself thinking. When did this happen? How did she get to be 17? How is it possible she's going to college a year from now. I can't believe that I'm so immensely proud of my bold, sassy, smart, beautiful daughter. And I'm very grateful for her.

Christina Lewellen 52:25
I love that. And that's exactly I'm gonna go right with that because my youngest two are 18. And then I have 20 and 22. They come home from college, Jeff.

Jeff Shields 52:34
Oh my gosh. Does that feel amazing? I will share

Christina Lewellen 52:37
with you that at Thanksgiving. They come home it makes my heart so happy. Oh, they bring a lot of laundry. I'm a little afraid what's in that laundry. But there's a lot of OxiClean. But I am so happy that they come home. Do

Jeff Shields 52:53
you know what you just did? You gave me something to look forward to. That's the silver lining. So this time next year, she'll be coming home for Thanksgiving, maybe for the first time that you know where she goes to school. And what a great feeling that's going to be so thank you for that.

Christina Lewellen 53:05
Absolutely. She will come with a lot of laundry.

Hiram Cuevas 53:09
And Jeff, I would be remiss, I also have a senior in high school, going through the college process. And she's already said this is I'll be coming home from college next year, dad. It's crazy. And I'm like yep, you're right. She's back. Caboose

Christina Lewellen 53:21
goes so fast. Just like this. Our Gentlemen, this has been so great. It's gone so fast. Jeff, you guys are working on some incredible things. I know we didn't even scratch the surface on all the incredible benefits that you bring to the independent school community. So you are welcome back anytime.

Unknown Speaker 53:36
Thank you.

Christina Lewellen 53:37
I can't wait to celebrate you on the main stage with the ATLIS community. I know they're gonna love you and love your insight. Yes,

Jeff Shields 53:44
I've got some ideas about that. I want to talk to you about some ways to mix it up. Perfect.

Christina Lewellen 53:49
Have our listeners write in what do you guys want to know from Jeff because he'll be with us in Reno. So write your questions in and we'll feed them into our keynote speakers inbox.

Unknown Speaker 53:59
Got it.

Christina Lewellen 54:00
Guys. Thank you so much, Jeff, thank you for your time, especially in this holiday week. We're so grateful for you and for NBA OA, everybody. Thank you for joining us once again for talking technology with ATLIS. Until next time, guys. Happy Thanksgiving.

Hiram Cuevas 54:15
Happy Thanksgiving. Thank you all

Unknown Speaker 54:16
Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.

Narrator 54:20
This has been talking technology with ATLIS produced by the Association of technology leaders and independent schools. For more information about ATLIS and ATLIS membership, please visit the ATLIS.org If you enjoyed this discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and share this podcast with your colleagues in the independent school community. Thank you for listening!