Leadership Spotlight: Daisy Steele's Unconventional Path

Narrator 0:02
welcome to Talking technology with ATLIS, the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens. We'll hear stories from technology directors and other special guests from the Independent School community and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics. And now please welcome your host, Christina Lewellen.

Christina Lewellen 0:26
Hello, everyone and welcome back to talking technology with ATLIS. I am Christina Lewellen. I'm the Executive Director of the Association of technology leaders in independent schools.

Bill Stites 0:36
And I am Bill stites, the Director of Technology at Montclair Kimberley Academy in Montclair, New Jersey.

Hiram Cuevas 0:43
And I'm Harold Cuevas, the Director of Information Systems and Academic Technology at St. Christopher's school in Richmond, Virginia.

Christina Lewellen 0:49
Hey, guys, how you doing today?

Bill Stites 0:51
Live in the dream. Perfect.

Christina Lewellen 0:53
I've been traveling a lot for ATLIS, we're getting into our busy fall season where there's a lot of Independent School Associations, they're hosting their fall conferences. So we've been on the road a lot. And it's kind of cool, because getting in front of audiences of independent school leaders of all stripes is really interesting. And I can tell you guys, it may not shock you to know that everyone is talking AI. That's all they want to talk about a year ago, everybody wanted to talk about cybersecurity. And today everybody wants to talk about AI. So we have been doing the ATLIS roadshow quite a bit, and we are talking a lot about AI. I'm gonna get on a plane tomorrow, and I'm gonna get on another plane next week. And we're gonna keep flying around and talking to tech leaders about AI. So how are you guys doing it your schools on that topic?

Hiram Cuevas 1:39
We've been talking about it quite a bit. It's becoming more centerstage. Unfortunately, I think with the honor committees, the honor councils, you know, they're getting really busy because they are struggling, I think with some of the essay writing assignments and the types of tools that that our students are starting to use and deploy. So here

Bill Stites 1:57
both at MK and yesterday, coincidentally, we had a meeting with our state technology steering committee for NJ ies and at one of our annual meetings that we have, we're focusing this year on AI and what we're going to do there and it was an interesting conversation yesterday around it, because I think part of what we need to do, which is around the policy pieces of it is hiring is kind of talking about it in terms of how you're dealing with it. But one of the things that we also feel that we need to focus on, what are the positives? What are the things that people are doing in new and different ways that they weren't able to do before? And that's one of the things that I think is possibly getting missed in all of this, because people are so anxious about it, that focus on Okay, the grounding on the policy side, but also, like, what are the cool things you can really do with it, it's going to be a great thing for us to be focused on.

Hiram Cuevas 2:48
Every week, something's coming out on chat GPT. In particular, the one thing that I just showed just yesterday to one of our Spanish teachers is being able to engage in conversational Spanish with AI. And he automatically said, Wow, what a great way to engage our students and use Screencastify to record the conversation with the AI tool and the student. And he was already thrilled and ready to run with it. So that balancing act between, you know, oh my gosh, we've got the Terminator coming after us. And also, you know, what are the benefits to instruction for our students is really where the focus should lie.

Christina Lewellen 3:22
And I think we're going to continue to see that as the fall unfolds. And certainly I get that experience as I'm running around and talking to different tech leaders. But we also have a privilege today to speak with one tech leader in particular, Bill and Hiram, as we were starting this podcast, we wanted to hit topics. But we also wanted to get to know our community. And we wanted to bring in really great thought leaders who are doing incredible work. And so at the top of that list is one Daisy steel. So I'm so proud to welcome to the podcast today. Daisy steel. Daisy, thank you for joining us.

Unknown Speaker 3:56
Hi, thank you for having me.

Christina Lewellen 3:58
We're really glad to so this is kind of an interesting and more casual conversation, because we'd like to get to know you a bit. But before we do that, I'm sure that you also have some perspective, you may have heard us talking as you've joined our pod today that we're talking a lot about AI we're seeing a lot we're experiencing a lot. You know, both ATLIS as an organization, we're trying to help our tech leaders navigate it, Bill and Hiram just shared some of their perspectives. So before we dive into your origin story, do you want to talk to us a little bit about how your school is thinking about AI or how you as a tech leader are thinking about it? Yes, we

Daisy Steele 4:33
have formed an AI Task Force. Cool. So that's been super helpful. And that's like one of our assistant has the upper school, myself, our Ed Tech coordinator, and instructional leader and coach and so that group together along with our assistant head of school is trying to think about what do we need to make sure we educate our educators about AI right. So the whole gamut and we have done a Already in all school training this August, where we provided you an intro to AI sort of the history similar to the wonderful little slide presentation that ATLIS has provided us as a sort of backdrop or a template, we gave that kind of presentation, and then allowed folks to actually play around with Chet GPT, and gave them some prompts and talked a little bit about prompt engineering in order to be able to be able to understand what how it's different from other AI, the generative AI and their large language models. So that's when it was received. And we're now sort of thinking what our next steps are going to be, as well as wrestling with all other things like ethics and responsibility and academic integrity. Yes,

Christina Lewellen 5:41
all those fun things. I plan this folks and I've paid Daisy to actually do an ATLIS plug before I even really introduced her. We're just going to jump right in to how much you love ATLIS. So thank you for that. You are one of the first people when I kind of started walking into the ATLIS community. We didn't really know you that well yet. But I remember my staff saying there is this Daisy Steele. And she's out west and we need to keep an eye on her because she's doing some incredible thought leadership, you were sharing some of your perspective. So tell us a little bit about who you are, where you came from. Who do you work for? Where do you live? Your whole life story? Let's go.

Daisy Steele 6:21
All right. Hi, I'm Daisy Steele, Director of Technology at Catlin gables school in Portland, Oregon. We are about 780 students, preschool through 12, private independent. So that's sort of the background of the school. My origin story is that I started really kind of thinking computers were cool when my mom brought home an apple, two Gs into the home along with a dot matrix printer. And they had the two floppy five and a quarter drives. So now I'm dating myself,

Christina Lewellen 6:50
you were the house everybody wanted to hang out with? Right? Like that's a cool house, honestly, very well done, mom.

Daisy Steele 6:58
Yeah, my mom was totally cool. She was totally into computers. And so it was really fun. And she's both my parents were educators as well, my dad was a assistant principal, my mom was a home economics teacher. So then I jumped in, I was like, I was creating all her tests on the computer and making banners for her classroom bulletin boards. And so that's sort of how I got like, really into computers. And like, this was really fun. And, you know, making the long dot matrix color banners. Those were fun, too. So that's how I got started. And then I realized in college that I was sort of good at troubleshooting, like, I ended up in the computer lab. And of course, back then even printing was always a problem. Like, I can't print, how do I get my papers to print? Right? And still in 2023, we still have printing problems. Why is it that I just kept sort of troubleshooting and learning more and more about it. So that was a focus. And then I wasn't really into like programming. Back then, like programming was sort of the career if you were gonna go into computers, but I didn't like that as much as the end user help and support. And then of course, you have that piece where you're like trying to figure out what you want to do with your life in college, right, and who you're going to be when you grow up. And I decided that I wanted to. So I majored in public relations. So folks might say, oh, you know, what your computer background, and I don't really have that, particularly in programming. But I did have it in spades in communication and public relations. So I got a degree in Public Relations, I learned how to write and learn how to be able to explain things. Well, and I think that's has served me pretty well over the years in being able to take complex computer ideas and technology information, and be able to explain it to folks that might not have that background.

Christina Lewellen 8:36
I 100% agree with that. I did an executive MBA program with a bunch of PhDs and doctors and just crazy credentialed people. And I think that part of where my success came from, is being able to communicate back what we learned, I killed it in that program. And I thought I can't keep up with these folks. Right? They're so smart. But I think what you just said is so true. If you have that skill of being able to take a bunch of information and concepts, and then articulate it in a fairly clear way that can serve you really well no matter what industry you're in, whether you're fixing printers, or doing public relations campaigns.

Daisy Steele 9:13
Absolutely. I mean, we have to communicate in so many ways, whether it's an email, right or creating a white paper or explaining it to your administrative team, or explaining it to a student that needs printing help. So wide variety of needs there. It grew up overseas Okinawa, Japan, and then went to college in Central Washington University, and then ended up working for the Pacific Science Center in Seattle, and their public relations department got our first computers there. When I started, they hadn't been computerized. And so then I was able to help implement computerization at the Pacific Science Center. And then from there, I ended up in Salem Keizer school district where I worked in the public schools for about six years. But in a tech role, sort of a tech role. I again it was more into computers. support. And I did like a stint in teaching marketing to high school students. So a little bit of everything, just still sort of meandering my way through right trying to figure it out. So it wasn't like, oh, I want to grow up and be a tech director or it didn't kind of happen that way sort of meandered around a little bit. Then I did get hired in a tech role at Salem Keizer school district. And that was really fun. And I ended up helping the Willamette ESD and the surrounding areas like Perry Dale School District, be able to get actual internet into their buildings and into their school districts. So I was a part of that is called capital net at the time, that was really fun. And being able to travel around to all these districts and provide their internet infrastructure had sis an admin network admin helping with that, and then providing training to the different districts that once they got donated, like now, what do we do? Right, right, that I came up to Portland here, then got hired with Catlin cable school, and they've been here ever since in various roles.

Christina Lewellen 10:58
How long have you been there at Katelyn Gable?

Daisy Steele 11:01
This is my 21st. Year do I stay here long time?

Christina Lewellen 11:05
So it does this AI revolution renaissance that we're in? Does it remind you of back when you were putting internet into those public schools?

Unknown Speaker 11:15
It kind of does. Yeah,

Christina Lewellen 11:17
I can imagine.

Daisy Steele 11:18
It's something so brand new. I mean, it's brand new and not brand new, right? Like, it's like we said, AI is not new. It's been around a really long time. But it's something so different. And it's turning the tables. And it's really making us all think and rethink about what education means what technology and education means and how we want to approach it, and how deliberate and intentional we want to be about it.

Christina Lewellen 11:39
Really, you've had kind of a winding path. And it certainly wasn't your dream to grow up and become a tech director at an independent school. Bill, Hiram, I would assume that we've talked about this, you guys started as educators, you also did not have a dream to one day be an independent school tech director. And yet, here we are, it's quite an interesting job. I want to know from all three of you. What do you think makes this role? Unique, tough, awesome.

Bill Stites 12:06
The one thing that I loved about what Daisy was saying is that when you come from a family of educators, I think there's a certain mindset that you carry with you. They're going joke in our house, both my parents were elementary school, teachers, grade school teachers was always talked to me, like I'm a second grader, talk to me, like I'm a third grader. And that was like, not talking down to someone, but talking to someone in a way where you can simplify what you're saying. So it can be easily understood and easily processed. And I think that understanding that mindset, I think is something that if you can bring that to what we are doing, particularly in all of these areas, how can you simplify things down to the point where people can grasp them easily, and with as few words as possible, or as little reading, which we know no one ever does. But with this little reading is possible, I think is a real asset and a real skill set to what we do, independent of what we bring at it from a technical perspective. So I think it's great to hear that commonality and experience and background with what these he's doing. I was

Hiram Cuevas 13:11
at Tinker or my poor mother, whenever I received some sort of gift or toy, I was already dismantling it to try and figure out how it worked. I did the exact same thing. When we got our first computer, my wife walked into the the office space and the brand new desktop that we just bought for $2,000 was in pieces. And she's like, What have you done in this guy? I just wanted to see how

Christina Lewellen 13:32
it worked. Oh, I hope you got that back together.

Hiram Cuevas 13:35
Absolutely apps. Of course I did. The beautiful thing is I think we're all inherently built as problem solvers. That is such a big part of it. And there is no fear, you're going to go into new situations almost daily, in this role. And I think what I have found most comforting as our most effective tech leaders are always folks that come from the academic educational sphere, because they know how to talk the talk, they know what it's like to be in the trenches. And they know how to model good instruction. And so that is the best way to convey those problems that we're constantly solving on a regular basis. The other thing I would say is to model failing gracefully, because you're never going to go ahead and nail it every time you're going to have to be able to fail gracefully in front of audiences, you're going to be fail gracefully in front of classes. And that is a huge task for the benefit. I think of all

Christina Lewellen 14:29
Daisy, you really came into my awareness during the pandemic and I hate to even bring us back there. But you were such a contributor to the community. I just feel like we didn't have a single townhall or virtual event where we were just trying to muddle through and solve issues together as a community that you weren't at. I mean, you were there. You were always there and you definitely showed up for the community. So I hate to like go back into that space. But tell us a little bit about your experience and What it was like for you to kind of Shepherd your school, obviously, there was a high amount of trust there. You'd been there for a long time, but you were dealing with something that you'd never had to deal with before. So what were those years like for you?

Daisy Steele 15:11
That's a really good question. Well, it felt like building the airplane while you were flying it. So the analogy that I heard many times and completely agree with, as Hiren said, it was all about problem solving, but constantly, right, not just like, oh, maybe one or two problems a day, but it's just like, Well, what about this? What about audio? How are we going to get cameras to everybody who doesn't have internet or good internet at home? How are we going to get devices to every single person while socially distancing? And how are we going to do pick up and drop off and track all the stuff? You know, when we close down and sent everybody home, we just said to folks, take whatever you need, take your monitors and your keyboards and your computers and just send us a helpdesk ticket of what you took. And we just sort of tried to track it that way. And then from there on, it was like, Okay, now we get it set up a big iPad pickup. So we start out on the curb and handed out iPads, as people drove through our parent line, then we started figuring out, okay, we have used zoom before. But now we need to go from like 10 licenses to 200 licenses, make sure everybody knows how to log into zoom and what their zoom link is, and what are the parameters by how you hold a class? And you know, even things like do you require to have your camera on or off, right for students? You know, what does that mean? And all the way down to like, what is the background of a student's home say about them? And they've maybe they don't want to show that background? And so how do we make sure that we're thinking about that equity piece? In the Independent School, you have folks that are quite well off, right, versus folks that may feel like they don't have as much? So even bringing in an AR di folks as well. And then just figuring all the equipment and the balance of Well, should we get meeting our goals? Or is that too expensive? And maybe we should just get a little desktop cameras, right? So all the equipment purchases and all the decisions? And then that's the pedagogy, right? Of how do we teach online in any kind of effective way. So working with my educational technology specialist to figure that out in our instructional coaches and teachers and trying to provide lessons on that. And then eventually, you know, with folks who didn't have internet road had spotty internet, you know, providing hotspots in a room that was you know, lots of large rooms that were well distance that folks could come and learn online at school in a safe way. There was just so much that was coming out, we didn't know how people were necessarily even getting COVID. Right. So you know, trying to be super safe and wiping everything down. And, you know, buying equipment to so you could have a printer in every room. So you weren't sharing spaces, all of that. So yeah, it was

Christina Lewellen 17:53
crazy. Crazy. And did you feel like after you'd been at the school for so long that this in some ways, really shifted how your administration looked at you and your team or you know how the educators that you work with day in and day out? You weren't just fixing printers anymore, you were definitely enabling education didn't shift.

Daisy Steele 18:14
Absolutely. It didn't shift. I think people realize that. Without technology, we wouldn't have been able to do as good a job as we were able to, in delivering educational content to our students in their homes. And we had such benefit of being able to quickly turn that around with, you know, high quality equipment, and providing solutions when someone didn't have something that they needed in order to make that work. Right. So very individualized as needed. We use FedEx and UPS to ship stuff to people like and then of course, you're still having, you know, employee departures and arrivals. And so doing all that remotely, can you imagine being an employee trying to arrive remotely at a school and start teaching in the middle of the year?

Christina Lewellen 18:56
I mean, that's drinking through a firehose, isn't it? Oh,

Daisy Steele 18:59
my goodness. And so we were FedExing laptops to folks that's like, Oh, my this will stay in California, even though I'm gonna be teaching this is gonna all be online type of thing, right? And then oh, my Apple pencil isn't working. Let me just ship that to you.

Christina Lewellen 19:13
Crazy. And now that we've kind of moved through that phase, what have the last couple years look like? I mean, I know that we were all still trying to get our feet under us, I think last school year. Do you feel like this is a normal kind of ish school year? The start so far? How's it been for you? And what are you thinking about looking at doing?

Daisy Steele 19:33
Yeah, I think we're starting to all feel like we're coming out of it. Like there weren't huge like, oh, when we start the school year, this year, here are the rules for this year, right? Like, I feel like the last couple of years, just like okay, we're going to start with maths or we're going to make sure that everybody's vaccinated or, you know, whatever the rules might be for the start of the year, and this year, there wasn't anything that we had to really state right, like, oh, just from our way here, our current COVID protocols was for pretty much at the same as the end of last year. So then As far as I, what I see more of and that I think is a real focus is, you know, really continuing to try to bring the community back together, right, we're having more in person on campus events, ensuring that we have host families for all our new families that are joining, making sure there are parents social events for parents to get together realizing that many ninth grade parents hadn't met any of that now we're all seniors, we married ninth graders, parents, and the new ones hadn't met each other in person. Right? Right. Or even like online or anything, right? They just didn't have that connection and something Oh, hi, how are you? Oh, it's so nice to meet you. And so I think that would be something that we're really focusing on. And the energy has been amazing. Like, we just had our homecoming last Friday and Saturday, and it was just the energy and the vibe of everything, just being so happy and just enjoying being together was just amazing. It's got to feel good.

Bill Stites 20:54
So DAISY, one of the things that when I think back to like, when did I get to know Daisy, like, when was my, my awakening? moment with Daisy. And it was a number of years ago, I think I was trying to solve like a portal problem was that there was something related to something I was doing. And somebody pointed me and said, Have you seen what they're doing out in Katelyn gables with Daisy. And I remember seeing you present at one point. And what I really value of you has been your willingness to share things out like before I ever met you, before I ever saw you present, it was like I had always either read something or somebody was referencing work that you were doing, or they were showing me examples of things that you have done. And it's something that I've really taken to heart. It's something that I try to do as part of, you know, what I do as a leader in the school, which is to share out as much as I take in from others. And first, thank you for everything that you've shared out, because that's what really brought me to you. But when you think about the people that are coming up behind us, and I say us because we've all been in the game for well over 20, some of us close to 30 plus years. What advice what would be something you would tell people that they should do? What is the advice that you would give somebody who's kind of coming up starting new with this to kind of help them do what they do as good as they can?

Daisy Steele 22:15
Well, I think I will go ahead and do that ATLIS plug that being a member of ATLIS, and being a part of the ATLIS Leadership Institute, I was the very inaugural class for that it was called ECAD, early career and aspiring technology leaders or something close to that. And the amount of support and information and tips and guidance and mentorship that I got from that it was invaluable. There was nothing that made my job like I felt like somebody understood and like, Oh, you're doing exactly what I'm doing. But you're doing it even so much better, I can learn so much from you. So having that all those years ago. And the focus on that being not just the tech piece, but how's the technology piece integrate with every single department and division on campus, your business office, your human resources, your advancement, your enrollment. And then of course, the education and teaching piece too. So all of that just understanding how integral technology is to that and how you can support each of those different pieces on campus. And we worked in during the pandemic, we've worked so closely with our facilities department, they were amazing. And so figuring out like room arrangement, and then how's the tech work with that and sound. So the advice I would give is participating in those things where you can really be around folks that are trying to do the same job that you're doing, and that you can bounce ideas off of and get information about and yes, sharing is great. I want to share everything that I can because so many people helped me out, they shared their information. Kurt line it, you know, he was like, Oh, you need an SLA. And I'm like, what? It's an SLA. What am I supposed to do with that? Okay, well, I do need an SLA. So things like that, where you'd say things you don't know what you don't know until you can get in a community that people who have paved the road before you and the ATLIS Leadership Institute faculty went to work just incredible, provided so much support, and I learned so much from all of them. And then as far as like just coming to any of the Alice webinars and also doing anything where there are like the cybersecurity workshops, anything that where you can just sort of plug in I think is as a new person coming in is really going to give you the community of people I mean, I came to all those COVID sessions because that was my like therapy and support.

Christina Lewellen 24:39
You were not the only one that felt that way. I think that there were many

Daisy Steele 24:44
Yeah, so finding that community and finding people that can mentor you and support you are super important. My end and my Alice Leadership Institute, mentor you know, we all get assigned a mentor and having that relationship and then mentoring someone else because you can learn so much by helping someone else get to Learn new things to

Hiram Cuevas 25:02
my first exposure today's he was actually back in 2018, I was asked to be on a panel with her and Jamie Britto and Alex Inman, and we did, essentially, you know, what, we all use him for a database solution at your schools. And each of us had a different approach and a varying approach. It was just fascinating to see all of the different approaches is like, I've got to keep an eye on Daisy, because she's got her act together already with this type of work. And sure enough, what do I find myself, you know, a few years later working with her on an EC project, doing some audits for other schools to try and help other schools out there. And Christina, you say this, often technology, people tend to share everything all the time. And Daisy is definitely one of those folks. Love that.

Christina Lewellen 25:45
I love that. So whether it's SLA service learning agreements, or the ALA program, where you know, really, when we look at the ATLIS Leadership Institute, part of what we're doing is bridging whatever door you walked into, you usually either have an IT technology background, or you have an ed tech, educator background, but rarely do you have both. And so that program has always meant to kind of bridge the gap. And so I appreciate that that was useful to you. And we find that we add new cohorts to the AI community every year. And we hear that a lot. So it makes my heart happy, that that was useful to you. You are also you've been involved with ATLISes dei conversations, I'd love to ask you, Daisy to share a little bit about your perspective on that. Because long before this became a topic on the tip of everyone's tongue. In 2020. And beyond, I feel like you were part of the conversation talking especially about equity and inclusion pretty early. So tell me a little bit about how you play a role, you know, at your school, and kind of how you approach that work. Personally,

Daisy Steele 26:54
since this is a audio show, I probably should say that I identify as Asian American, I was born in Taipei, Taiwan. And then I grew up in Okinawa, Japan, and then I immigrated into United States when I was in college. And I find that there aren't very many Asian American technology leaders in independent schools, right. So already, I feel like I want to expand that and make sure that everybody does feel included. And there are times that I haven't felt like I belonged in various places. And so I'm always aware and cognizant about making sure that everyone that I'm in contact with does feel welcome. And then also being a woman. Technology is a male dominated field has been and continues to be breaking more and more of those barriers. But I think also you can feel I haven't been made to be in a room with multiple males, and then just me, and then having to make sure that I have the confidence and the wherewithal to stand up and say, Yes, I actually do know what you're talking about. And I understand what switches are, and APS and some of those technical terms that sometimes folks can assume that you don't know or don't understand or need extra explaining. So having felt some of that I feel imperative to me that I find ways to make sure that number one that the team that I build, they feel welcome included and supportive of those goals of belonging, and equity. And then also everything from like our terms, and what we say I think how I got involved with the I was sharing on that I said, this serve about the glossary of terms that had come across from the University of Washington, where they had these terms of what we might typically have used in technology like, Oh, this is a female plug, this is the male plug, right or this is we have a master and a slave drive, right? And then realizing that those terms that we've just bantered around and used pretty frequently are not necessarily acceptable terms or terms that feel inclusive, right. I brought that up. And then I was like, oh, yeah, we should I wanted I was working on those sub terms with my team of like wanting to bring that to a team and making sure we talked about allow list and block list rather than blacklist and whitelist. And so then John Yan said, Oh, we should bring this to that with the AI team. And so that's how I kind of got involved there. And so I think from there, it's just, you know, exploded as far as the ATLIS di framework that I think has been such a good start. And then sort of I know, we're having discussions about where we want to go with that next and how we can really start bringing that into the schools like right, I have this poster I can put up and now what do I do with it? Right? So thinking about what is the guidebook? Yeah, the toolbox? The toolbox? Yes.

Christina Lewellen 29:47
We're definitely kind of digging deeper into that. And you're such a great representative because I do think that you bring unique perspective of like, Yeah, but that applies to me too. I think we all kind of have our own viewpoint on this world. But I love that you kind of bring into it your own experiences of even just being a female tech leader in the room. But then to bring that perspective to the work that you do at your school, where's your school at in the journey in kind of the DNA? Because this is messy and hard work? We've talked to Allison Ross on this podcast. So we get it like it's tough work. Are you involved in that work at your school?

Daisy Steele 30:21
Yes, I work closely with our diversity equity inclusion office, I think it's equity. And inclusion is what they're currently calling them that office. And one of the things I was working on really hard was figuring out the combination of gender identity, and then how that is replicated throughout our technology systems, right, so that they can vary across, you can have a preferred name, and then persons who want to have that preferred name and want to be identified by that, we can enter that, and it shows up in most places. But there were certain areas like if you went to the attendance roster, it would show the legal name or the dead name. And I worked really hard with their cross. And they have changed that piece. So if you go to the attendance piece now is the option. But I worked really hard. And I had several folks that were like, how can we change this? And what can we do? And I just kept hammering on My Account Executive saying, we have to change this that everybody is asking for this. And it's not okay, that your system is not accommodating, to how folks identify. And then just thinking about processes and procedures. If you have someone who is going through an identity change, and they want that reflected in technology systems, what is the process for that? How do they let us know then how do we make sure that everybody knows it needs to know and the easy way and that what if the child is choosing to identify one way at school versus one way at home? How do we manage and work with them to identify how they want to their versus how their parents might be identifying them at home, in weaving that through all of our systems for how we know where the pictures are, the terms that we offer the drop down menus, we provide in forms that we might be surveys, we might be sending out, making sure they're all feel inclusive, we have a gender identity, optional form that every single family can fill out. And that we then try to make sure you know is replicated through all our systems, even though sometimes that may be manual, or that some systems like can't accommodate alternative identities. And were like working with those vendors to try to bring that change about

Bill Stites 32:29
DAISY, this speaks to the you know, everywhere I am Daisy is already there type of conversation, what you're saying really resonates because it's the type of things I think that a lot of the schools are struggling with, is trying to figure these pieces out. Again, we had air calm and the work that was done with the Cirrus guidebook for Institutional Research. And just yesterday, as I mentioned, you know, at a meeting I was at with our local state tech directors, we were talking about this very issue. And in terms of how people like ourselves, when we reach out to these vendors, when we work with these vendors, when we work with ATLIS, to work with these vendors that support schools, how having people like you who have done this work, whether it was for ATLIS, or you're doing it with your school, but then share this work out and make your voice heard in the larger community with this lends weight to all of those conversations that we need to have with these groups to try to make change happen in these areas. And in this case, we're talking about DIY efforts, but you know, within any of the efforts that we're taking on, having people who can advocate and going back to what you said before about doing it in a very clear and concise manner, those people that can see the problem that can advocate for the problem. And that can explain the problem. Clearly, we need more of them in this organization, in this area in schools in general. And I think what you're describing is a perfect example of this. And you've been a perfect model for that type of work. So thank you for that.

Christina Lewellen 34:03
Yeah, it's really cool that our vendor community, especially those that are really focused on the independent school community, they want to do the right thing. And I love seeing when you're able to do this partnership that allows the product and the service and the offering to get even better. I really think that that's something unique about our community. They're listening, and it might take a hot minute. But you know, they're generally kind of partnering with us so that we're doing what's right for our educators and for our learners. And I love hearing those stories.

Bill Stites 34:32
And Daisy The one thing I will say is, this is my way of saying after the podcast is over when we're done with the call, I need another call with you so I can talk through all the things that you're doing. So I can simply copy them and put them to use here MK so I look like the rock star here at MK putting that out there. Yeah, that's

Christina Lewellen 34:47
what our community is all about. Right. I also would love to learn a little bit about if you've been in a role for 20 years, there had to have been some skinned knees along the way some lessons learned And, and especially with challenging situations like dei work or the pandemic. So do you see what are some of the things that you've sort of learned along the way that for you make you kind of a better leader today than you were, you know, as you were first stumbling into this years ago,

Daisy Steele 35:15
I think for me learning how to be a good manager of people, you know, you have a team, and you're going to be much better together as a team and can get more accomplished and be more efficient if that team runs smoothly. But as humans are kind of messy sometimes, right. And so it's really something of learning how, what motivates each person, and how you put together the different strengths of a team to bring out the best in everybody. And then continuing along the way of even if you come across difficulties, or there are maybe friction points that I think that figuring out how to craft your team, and knowing that there's turnover, and then how, you know, if somebody leaves reassessing what your team strengths are, and then say, maybe want to change this, maybe this person should be this role, or they should be a deployment specialist. And then we'll move this person over into more of an assistant role. And it's, you know, sort of reassessing your team on a constant basis. And then also, being a part of that team. Like, I feel like I would never ask anybody to do something that I wouldn't do myself. In other words, if I needed you to, you know, string cables or cords across the floor, on your hands and knees, I will have already done that. They want my team to know that I understand the work that comes with like this magic curtain behind the scenes. And everybody's like, Oh, it just works well, no. But in fact, there is a lot of just hard, grubby, gritty work that's involved in problem solving and reiteration and the devils in the details. And so I want to make sure that my folks that work for me understand that I very much understand that. And then I'm always working to like, you know, what can we do that's fun. How can we keep connected, especially during the pandemic? Or we're all you know, in our homes? How can I keep my team connected? So we use Microsoft Teams as our sort of instant communication. Some folks use Slack, but pretty much almost every day, I'm like, Hi, happy Monday. Happy Tuesday, happy Friday, Eve. Every day, one of

Christina Lewellen 37:25
those? Yeah.

Daisy Steele 37:27
Yeah. So I'm always trying to connect that way, just whether we're all in the office or not, because we're all running around. And then trying to have you know, team events. We have an in person, weekly meeting where we need as a team, I need one on one with my team members every week as well. And unfortunately, I can do that because it's not you know, I don't manage 50 people, I manage eight people, which is still a large team, compared to many independent schools. I also try to make sure that we have fun. We go out to lunch, and we have lunch in and we went bowling earlier in the summer and we had ice cream and the fun part two to enjoy each other's company because you're with these folks quite a bit of your day.

Christina Lewellen 38:07
Absolutely. What are some of the things that you like to do outside of work like what makes you you when you're not serving your school community?

Daisy Steele 38:15
I love being outdoors because most technology is indoors. So it's wonderful to go outside. I love to paddleboard you might have heard some of my paddleboarding adventures. The my most famous one I think was paddling in Florida near Orlando, with alligators on the sides of the banks of

Christina Lewellen 38:34
Oh no. Yeah, no,

Unknown Speaker 38:36
it was really cool. I have photos

Christina Lewellen 38:41
people who know me well days you understand that I believe that alligators and sharks should have gone down with the dinosaurs. Like they don't make any sense to me. They shouldn't be here. Alligators scare me beyond measure. So that's my worst nightmare. And you did this on purpose. Like did you know the alligators? Were going to be there?

Daisy Steele 38:57
Yes. I asked the person that I was renting from I said, Oh, are there alligators? And he said, Oh yeah, there you'll see them. You just don't bother them and they won't bother you. And I'm like, okay,

Christina Lewellen 39:07
oh, that does not sound like a guarantee that I'm comfortable with. It was so beautiful. What a nightmare. I can you know, they eat dogs, right? And young children. Like it's not good, easy. It's not good.

Daisy Steele 39:23
It was really fun. And I went with somebody else. So I figured I would have a witness if anything happened. So yeah, I went with a fellow ATLIS person, the holly gorilla.

Bill Stites 39:31
Some of you record the attack.

Christina Lewellen 39:34
I don't think Holly would have saved you. I know Holly. I feel like she would have been like I can paddleboard faster than you so I'm out here.

Daisy Steele 39:41
Well, we both survived. It was super fun. I had a great video. So yeah, I love paddleboarding. I tried to go paddleboarding whenever I can. And wherever I am rent the paddleboard. I love to travel. I went back to Japan in March and that was fantastic and I got to swim with the sea turtles in the ocean. And then it was gorgeous and amazing. And it got to swim with the manatees when I was in Florida too. That was awesome.

Christina Lewellen 40:05
So you just basically like to be in water with other creatures in water.

Daisy Steele 40:10
Yes. That's great. I am one of those people that like if you need to calm me down, or do you stress just add water. And that is that my magic potion for me? I'm like a foodie. I love to go to different restaurants and try different foods. I love sushi.

Christina Lewellen 40:25
Oh, me too. So good. Oh, sushi. All right, we got to stop this podcast right now.

Unknown Speaker 40:31
We're all gonna get hungry.

Christina Lewellen 40:34
I love it. That's really great. And you have been in our staple at our conference? What are some of the things that you feel the most comfortable presenting on and speaking about and weighing in on either the lists or the discussion boards? What are kind of your wheelhouse things that you tend to weigh in on?

Daisy Steele 40:53
I think I have a pretty good understanding of databases and technology systems and implementations and understanding how those pieces work and fit together. I've done several veracross presentations, I'd like to do sort of the boots on the ground of like, I'm not the necessarily the expert. But this is sort of been my experience on how this has gone. Whether it's like figuring out cybersecurity or figuring out artificial intelligence AI. Here's the questions I had to think about and how I approached them and what my solutions were. I think we're all sort of how I like to present and just hopefully that somebody else can learn and find something useful in the experience that I've had, what the bumps along the road were what were those successes in the hurrahs? And then what are some tips and advice that I could provide?

Christina Lewellen 41:42
So sometimes on this podcast, I like to ask questions of all three, because our guest and my co hosts, you guys are all in it and doing the work. So here's my question for this episode for all three of you. And I don't know why, you know, I think Daisy, just your spirit sparked this one in me, I didn't pre plan this. So sorry, you didn't get it ahead of time. My question for you is this. If you guys could wave a magic wand and solve one problem for your school, even if it has nothing to do with technology? What would it be? I know you guys are touching all parts of your schools. So you're not just in a technology box. So it doesn't have to be a technology answer, though it can be What if you had a magic wand and could just fix one thing? To just clear the decks for your school in some capacity? What would it be?

Bill Stites 42:28
I'm trying to think of things that might be outside of my direct wheelhouse. And that's where I'm kind of struggling with it.

Christina Lewellen 42:36
Well, let me say this part of where this question comes from, I am not an educator, nor do I work at a school. But you guys know that I have a bunch of teenage daughters, and having watched their experience their transition, they are all now in college. And I wish there hadn't been so much pressure on them to pursue their life goals at the age of 18. And I think my husband and I try to say to them, Hey, guys, it's okay. Not everybody knows what they want to do when they're 18, it's going to be alright, just be a good human and keep learning and you're going to figure it out. So that's the kind of thing that I wish I could fix in education in general is that pressure that is put on the kids, even if it's not coming from home, I hope it didn't come from home. But it just exists,

Daisy Steele 43:21
that this sparked in me, Christina, what you were saying about their pressure. And I think a lot of that pressure comes from social media. And so I think if I could maybe wave the magic wand is figuring out how we could ensure that every child has a healthy balance of social media use and the pressures that are related to that, and good mental health resources available to anybody who needs it and making it so that they can have some of that childhood back. I think about when I was growing up, you know, I didn't even have a parent that had a mobile phone. So they didn't grow up in that world where their parent was looking at their mobile phone all the time. Like, second, I'll be right there. I just gotta finish this text. And then also that my things that I'm not necessarily especially proud of, we're not recorded and then put on the internet for the world to see.

Christina Lewellen 44:17
This is so true. Our generation Oh, you're lucky

Bill Stites 44:21
100%

Daisy Steele 44:22
We are so lucky. So yeah, if I could wave the magic wand and put some of that stuff back in the bottle, I would do that.

Bill Stites 44:30
One of the things I would jump on with that. And I thank you for jumping in Daisy because it allowed me to think through what my answer will be. And my answer is that I'm going to stick with something that Hiram said earlier, and that was if you could wave the wand, it would be a way to truly allow people to embrace failure. So I think Christina to your point about pressure, being able to make mistakes and understand that those will be accepted gracefully, and that those will We'll be not seen as mistakes, but as what they truly should be is learning experiences, things that we can take and move on from. And I think that applies not only just to our students, I think it applies to all the work that we're doing, you know, because Daisy kind of touched on it a little bit there, you know, you're gonna take a step, and that step could very well be a misstep. And that misstep could cause a problem that only you're dealing with, or it could cause you know, something that is happening. And just the grace and understanding that, particularly in technology, where things are changing at such a rapid pace, that we're not going to have all the answers and we are going to stumble, and we are going to fail and fall and allow for that and embrace that and kind of learn from it and move on. So that would be the one thing I would hope that we could wave that wand and take on.

Hiram Cuevas 45:48
And then for me, I would say I had a bag of pixie dust that I could definitely spread throughout the campus. I often equate schools and school cultures as an attic that is never capable of being full, we keep on adding to it and adding to it and adding to it. And I would really love for schools in general recognize that when you add something you should revisit what you're currently doing and see what can be removed. Because there is a lot of, of energy, and time that is spent dealing with some of these other items that are part of school culture, or just the way we have always done it that we may need to revisit and see if are we doing something already better. And we can actually reduce some of the burden that can impact things like teacher burnout and pressure to students.

Christina Lewellen 46:41
As we kind of take this home Daisy, we didn't really come into this podcast with any big plan, because as I mentioned, we wanted to create room to just have conversations. And I want to kind of give you sort of the last word in this conversation. So before we did you do and thank you for your time. Is there anything else you're thinking about? Like? Are there any other things on your to do list that you're hoping to turn your attention to? What else is kind of in the near future for DAISY steel?

Daisy Steele 47:13
Thank you so much. I am thinking about what is the role of teaching and education and the human connections and human pieces is related to AI? Right? We know that AI has this huge power. And I'm thinking about how do we as humans fit into all of that? And how are we intentional about it? How are we ensuring that the pieces of why you go to school and how technology supports your learning is really doing that. And it's not just like the vendor saying, Oh, well, this piece of technology is what you need for your students to be better in math. I feel like we're gonna want to give students the opportunities to learn how to learn, and then learn how to be critical thinkers and ready for whatever is out there next that we don't even know like, we're talking about prompt engineering who even knew what that was a year ago. Right? So we can't just like say, Oh, we're gonna give you these skills. But it's also like, how are we going to teach the compassion, the empathy, the connection, how to manage in this crazy, messy world, together and with each other, and use AI to help us do that in positive ways?

Christina Lewellen 48:24
You have a pretty broad perspective, do you think you'd ever want to be ahead of school?

Daisy Steele 48:29
That seems like a really hard job. I have. I agree. Total respect for heads of school. Oh, my gosh, I know I get a lot of people saying, Wow, you're you do a lot in technology, but had a school seems like they have to do everything? They sure do. Yeah. So I'm not sure.

Christina Lewellen 48:44
I feel you. I'll take that and I'll let you off the hook with that one. You know, Daisy, other than the discussion about alligators, this has been an absolute pleasure. I'm so glad that we had you on the pod thank you for being brave to come in without a game plan. And without a set list of questions or anything like that you did fantastic. It's always lovely to spend time with you loving your energy, loving your expertise. And thank you for all that you do for the ATLIS community. Thank you so much.

Bill Stites 49:09
Yeah. 100% Thank you so much.

Hiram Cuevas 49:12
Thank you, Daisy.

Christina Lewellen 49:13
Thank you. Alright guys. That's it for another episode of talking technology with ATLIS. And we'll see you all next time.

Narrator 49:22
This has been talking technology with ATLIS produced by the Association of technology leaders and independent schools. For more information about ATLIS and ATLIS membership, please visit the ATLIS.org If you enjoyed this discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and share this podcast with your colleagues in the independent school community. Thank you for listening