Human-First Protocols and Building Diverse Tech Teams with Dr. Akbar Herndon
Presented by:
Dr. Akbar Herndon, CTO of Grace Church School and a founder of the NEET conference, discusses his unique journey from professional jazz violinist to technology leader. He shares strategies for building highly diverse IT teams through a culture of belonging and explains why a "human first protocol" is essential when integrating AI into the independent school classroom.
- Akbar’s LinkedIn Profile
- Grace Church School
- NYSAIS Education, Information, and Technology (NEIT) Conference
- Black Swan Quartet, Akbar’s jazz group and recording
- Weather Report, jazz fusion band
- Max Roach, jazz drummer and composer
Transcript
Peter Frank:
Dan, welcome to Talking technology with ATLIS,
Peter Frank:
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
Peter Frank:
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Peter Frank:
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
Peter Frank:
special guests from the Independent School community,
Peter Frank:
and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Peter Frank:
And now please welcome your host. Christina Lewellen,
Christina Lewellen:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to
Christina Lewellen:
talking technology with ATLIS. I'm Christina Lewellen, the
Christina Lewellen:
President and CEO of the Association of technology
Christina Lewellen:
leaders in independent schools.
Bill Stites:
And I am Bill Stites, the Director of
Bill Stites:
Technology at Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New
Bill Stites:
Jersey.
Hiram Cuevas:
And I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of
Hiram Cuevas:
Information Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher
Hiram Cuevas:
school in Richmond, Virginia.
Christina Lewellen:
Hello, gentlemen, how are you doing?
Hiram Cuevas:
Well, it is the great pollen ing here in
Hiram Cuevas:
Richmond.
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, it is that time of year. But I think
Christina Lewellen:
Hiram, the good news with that is that, man, are we barreling
Christina Lewellen:
toward the end of the school year, like, where did this year
Christina Lewellen:
go? Right? It was like, Happy New Year, and now we're
Christina Lewellen:
graduating. It feels like it's going
Hiram Cuevas:
very fast. Well, when Bill has Spring Break this
Hiram Cuevas:
past two weeks, you now get full steam ahead for summer for MKA.
Bill Stites:
Oh, yeah, no,
Christina Lewellen:
I think you're jealous. I am. Are you
Christina Lewellen:
basically saying you're jealous that MKA gets two weeks off?
Christina Lewellen:
What do you get? Hiram, I just get a week. Just a week. It's a
Christina Lewellen:
hard life. You have just a week. I'm so sorry. Y'all want to know
Christina Lewellen:
how much I had for spring break.
Bill Stites:
Oh, please. You were traveling. You were on your
Bill Stites:
like, CEO like girls junket recently, like going around
Bill Stites:
doing whatever it is you're doing, boondoggling around the
Bill Stites:
United States in your farewell tour. I don't want to hear that
Bill Stites:
you're like having such a tough
Hiram Cuevas:
time about oh, we tried mufongo.
Christina Lewellen:
I did the mufongo. I am missing Puerto
Christina Lewellen:
Rico. It's crazy because I think that I landed two weeks ago
Christina Lewellen:
today, and I was thinking about that on my drive in today,
Christina Lewellen:
because it's gross and rainy here in Virginia, and I was
Christina Lewellen:
driving to the office, and I thought, Oh, two weeks ago, I
Christina Lewellen:
woke up and we went out on the beach, and it was gorgeous. And
Christina Lewellen:
you got to have those moments in life and savor them. But I'm
Christina Lewellen:
also like, big sad
Bill Stites:
face, yeah, we had two weeks off. But to be clear,
Bill Stites:
I worked like part of both weeks. So it's not like I was
Bill Stites:
like, on break doing so I was up on ladders replacing APs. I was
Bill Stites:
like, taking meetings. It's like, when you can actually get
Bill Stites:
the most amount of work done because no one's in the
Bill Stites:
building. That's right. So it's not like I was like, lounging on
Bill Stites:
some like, tropical island mojitos, cojitos, whatever it is
Bill Stites:
you're drinking and eating and doing coquitos. You know, I'm
Bill Stites:
doing none of that, none of that, none of that Puerto Rican
Bill Stites:
joy that you and Hiram experience? No, no, I was here
Bill Stites:
in like Montclair, New Jersey.
Christina Lewellen:
Thanks for taking one for the team.
Hiram Cuevas:
I'm about to make Bill feel a lot better, though,
Hiram Cuevas:
because I am spending time with Bill next week. I'm spending
Hiram Cuevas:
time with Bill at ATLIS. Then I'm going to Utah with Bill. So
Hiram Cuevas:
it's a bill Stites fest.
Bill Stites:
It's Bill spring, Bill and Hiram spring adventure,
Bill Stites:
absolutely,
Christina Lewellen:
oh, like that movie in the 80s, Bill and
Christina Lewellen:
Ted's Excellent. Bill and Ted's, yep, Bill and hiram's Excellent
Christina Lewellen:
Adventure. I think you guys could redo that. Did you have a
Christina Lewellen:
quick question for you before we get to our guest? And I
Christina Lewellen:
definitely want to hustle over to our guest, because it's a
Christina Lewellen:
good one. But I am in this era of my life where I've got a
Christina Lewellen:
couple college kids popping home for Easter holiday break, and
Christina Lewellen:
some folks are very torn about the whole Easter basket after
Christina Lewellen:
childhood thing, but I've always used it as an opportunity to,
Christina Lewellen:
like, give them a gift card or some laundry detergent, you
Christina Lewellen:
know, their favorite candies. And so I found these giant eggs
Christina Lewellen:
that I can put a couple gift cards in, couple dove dark
Christina Lewellen:
chocolates or whatever their favorite is. Do you guys put
Christina Lewellen:
together little Easter treats or little holiday treats, whether
Christina Lewellen:
it's for St Patrick's Day or anything like that, for the
Christina Lewellen:
older kids? Absolutely no.
Bill Stites:
We still do it. My wife's down with my mother down
Bill Stites:
the shore, but she's on spring break this week, and she's going
Bill Stites:
to the local candy shop, and she's like, What are we getting?
Bill Stites:
Still happens?
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, my nephew and his fiance are in
Christina Lewellen:
their late 20s. I got some stuff for them too. Everybody wants a
Christina Lewellen:
little treat, right?
Bill Stites:
My boys still get letters from Santa, from my
Bill Stites:
grand Oh, yeah. And they look forward to it like, Oh, I hear
Bill Stites:
you've been a good boy, you know, rattling off all the
Bill Stites:
different things.
Christina Lewellen:
Oh, okay, wait, wait, wait, we might have
Christina Lewellen:
to cut this out, because they're friends. Your son is now working
Christina Lewellen:
for MLB, and you just outed him as getting cards and or notes
Christina Lewellen:
from Santa. This is not good news 100% and he loves it.
Hiram Cuevas:
That's nothing to be embarrassed about. He's on
Hiram Cuevas:
the in I mean, he's getting letters from the man, exactly.
Hiram Cuevas:
That's a direct pipeline. That's amazing. Sean Stites and Craig.
Hiram Cuevas:
He'll take it. I'm jealous. I don't get a letter from Santa.
Bill Stites:
I'll work on it for you.
Hiram Cuevas:
Hiram, it took me years. To get an MKA at so, you
Hiram Cuevas:
know, Oh, stop.
Bill Stites:
Okay, we're not going here.
Christina Lewellen:
Sean and Craig. I just want to say that I
Christina Lewellen:
advocated to cut this part out, and so if it's still here and
Christina Lewellen:
you're hearing it, I just apologize on behalf of everyone.
Christina Lewellen:
Trust me, our
Hiram Cuevas:
kids don't listen to this.
Christina Lewellen:
I'm very excited to transition to our
Christina Lewellen:
guest today, because Bill, you have been raving about what you
Christina Lewellen:
call the NEET conference for a long time. This is an event
Christina Lewellen:
that's been hosted by the New York State Association of
Christina Lewellen:
Independent Schools, and it's their Education Information and
Christina Lewellen:
Technology Conference. So n, e, i t neat conference, and there
Christina Lewellen:
is a gentleman who was one of the founders of this technology
Christina Lewellen:
gathering almost three decades ago, and so that is who we are
Christina Lewellen:
welcoming on the pod today. Dr Akbar Herndon, hello. Dr,
Christina Lewellen:
Herndon, how are you today?
Akbar Herndon:
Hello, Christina, thank you. I'm great. I love
Akbar Herndon:
hearing that conversation about giving to our children.
Christina Lewellen:
Okay, so where do you fall, like, on this
Christina Lewellen:
little debate that we have? Do adult children need a little
Christina Lewellen:
Easter treat?
Akbar Herndon:
We give the basket. We have our basket.
Akbar Herndon:
We're preparing it now. I love it.
Hiram Cuevas:
Okay? Just have to once a parent, always a parent.
Hiram Cuevas:
That's right, yep,
Christina Lewellen:
I will say that I will probably have one of
Christina Lewellen:
my daughters actually put them all together. So I don't know if
Christina Lewellen:
that takes away from the magic. Mom's busy, so I might have to
Christina Lewellen:
actually outsource the assembling of the baskets to one
Christina Lewellen:
of the aforementioned children. But we'll leave that where it
Christina Lewellen:
is.
Akbar Herndon:
Any opportunity to give is worth it.
Christina Lewellen:
I agree with you. Bring a little joy into
Christina Lewellen:
everybody's life. So, Dr Herndon, you have a really
Christina Lewellen:
interesting background, and so I do want to talk about the neat
Christina Lewellen:
conference. I want to talk about your career in independent
Christina Lewellen:
schools. But before we jump into the Independent School part, can
Christina Lewellen:
you tell our listeners a little bit about your life before you
Christina Lewellen:
came to independent schools,
Akbar Herndon:
it's a long period of finding my way. I came
Akbar Herndon:
to Grace 32 years ago as computer coordinator, then soon
Akbar Herndon:
after, tech director, and then for the last 10 years, CTO. But
Akbar Herndon:
before then was a math teacher who integrated computers into my
Akbar Herndon:
math class? I take one day of the five days that would be our
Akbar Herndon:
computer day, we'd have brain puzzles teasers, brain teasers,
Akbar Herndon:
coding with logo and so on. But coming to that point, I grew up
Akbar Herndon:
in Ohio, Cleveland, Ohio, read a lot of books, loved tinkering,
Akbar Herndon:
loved doing puzzles and took violin lessons. I love music,
Akbar Herndon:
but you know, as a black teenage boy trying to figure out how to
Akbar Herndon:
be cool, the violin did not fit. So as soon as I could drop it,
Akbar Herndon:
when I went away to college, I stopped soon as I could get away
Akbar Herndon:
from my teacher, who I was terrified of but respected. And
Akbar Herndon:
there at college, discovered coding, and that really turned a
Akbar Herndon:
page in even what I was doing at school, the entry level
Akbar Herndon:
programming language at Carnegie Mellon in 71 was PL one, which
Akbar Herndon:
was a combination of cobalt Algol and Fortran, and that
Akbar Herndon:
whole idea of being given a puzzle, essentially and given
Akbar Herndon:
constraint, I had a language. I could define my variables,
Akbar Herndon:
define your environment, create the logic flow, and then did you
Akbar Herndon:
do it? You know? Is it right? So that really resonated with me,
Akbar Herndon:
like never quoted before. That led to other tech classes, but
Akbar Herndon:
the process was, you bring your solution into the computer lab,
Akbar Herndon:
you would go to a keyboard machine where, you know, a cards
Akbar Herndon:
about the size of $1 bill, you type on the key punch machine,
Akbar Herndon:
and every card was a different instruction. 4050, cards later,
Akbar Herndon:
you would go to the card reader in a different part of the room,
Akbar Herndon:
read the cards into the card reader, and then the data was
Akbar Herndon:
sent to this that IBM 360 but this monstrous machine behind a
Akbar Herndon:
glass wall that had a huge desk in front, probably the original
Akbar Herndon:
help desk, and then about an hour later, someone would bring
Akbar Herndon:
out dot matrix paper that had your solution or your mistakes
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more often than not. So it sounds arduous, but it was just
Akbar Herndon:
like a new world to explore, and of course, getting it right was
Akbar Herndon:
the goal, but that led to taking courses like data structures
Akbar Herndon:
miracle analysis. We learned to program in machine language,
Akbar Herndon:
assembler, using PDP 10s PDP elevens created parsers or
Akbar Herndon:
interpreters, compilers. So, you know, there was a whole world
Akbar Herndon:
there, and as much as I liked it, I did not feel like I was on
Akbar Herndon:
the inside of that circle of kids who were majoring but they
Akbar Herndon:
didn't really have a computer science major, but applied math
Akbar Herndon:
with computer options was how it was termed. So I got my degree,
Akbar Herndon:
but did not click with that circle in my um, I think the
Akbar Herndon:
first summer between sophomore and freshman year, I heard a
Akbar Herndon:
music group named weather report. And weather report blew
Akbar Herndon:
my mind. These were jazz giants already, but they were using
Akbar Herndon:
synthesizers, funk, bass, crazy polyrhythms, and I was smitten,
Akbar Herndon:
bitten by this need to play jazz, and all I had was violin.
Akbar Herndon:
So I got my violin, brought it back to school with me, and
Akbar Herndon:
started trying to teach myself how to improvise. Spent the next
Akbar Herndon:
three years finishing school, of course, but finding ways to
Akbar Herndon:
play, finding other people who wanted to play together, forming
Akbar Herndon:
pickup groups, sounding pretty bad, but um, it was fun, but um,
Akbar Herndon:
I kept going with it even after graduation and to support
Akbar Herndon:
myself, taught I had already been hired by Carnegie Mellon
Akbar Herndon:
several times to teach either supplement classes. I didn't
Akbar Herndon:
have a complete degree, but I could lead a section in math or
Akbar Herndon:
in technology, and being pretty good at coding, you know, be a
Akbar Herndon:
tutor. So I loved teaching. It wasn't a compromise in any way.
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But after graduating, I picked up a couple of teaching
Akbar Herndon:
positions Upward Bound. Had a program on the college campus,
Akbar Herndon:
so I taught there, learned about how relationship is really the
Akbar Herndon:
heart of teaching. Content was okay, but relationship was
Akbar Herndon:
really what you took away and shared. That gave me a chance to
Akbar Herndon:
keep trying to get into jazz clubs, sitting in with various
Akbar Herndon:
performers create a group of my own here and there. I didn't
Akbar Herndon:
know how this was all going to end, because there's no pipeline
Akbar Herndon:
to the jazz world. And then on violin, you know, jazz is very
Akbar Herndon:
cool. Violin in jazz, strange, but sometimes it clicked, and I
Akbar Herndon:
had the amazing, like a miracle, amazing fortune of at a jam
Akbar Herndon:
session two or three years after graduating Max Roach, who is
Akbar Herndon:
like a giant in the jazz world, drummer, heard me playing and
Akbar Herndon:
came up and raved about what I was doing and insisted I moved
Akbar Herndon:
to New York. You know what a confirmation first time someone
Akbar Herndon:
saying you're on the right track. So I did. I moved to New
Akbar Herndon:
York soon after he and I became very good friends. Still have a
Akbar Herndon:
piano that he gave me for composing, and I started working
Akbar Herndon:
on building my own group and to be able to support myself.
Akbar Herndon:
Taught math, continue to teach math, yes, little courses here
Akbar Herndon:
and there, long story short, we recorded very successful for a
Akbar Herndon:
short moment, which is how fame works. You have to keep calling
Akbar Herndon:
the crowds. And you know, our album did well. We were doing
Akbar Herndon:
something different, very different, but it was very hard
Akbar Herndon:
to have my classes while being on tour. My schools would agree,
Akbar Herndon:
yes, you can go away on tour as needed, but when I came back, my
Akbar Herndon:
classes were in shambles. I had a substitute, but it was clear
Akbar Herndon:
that this is not a right solution. I felt disingenuous as
Akbar Herndon:
a teacher. As years went on, Black Swan, which was the name
Akbar Herndon:
of the string quartet, hit its peak, and some internal
Akbar Herndon:
frictions that to the group not playing as often, and that gave
Akbar Herndon:
me reason to sort of turn towards teaching, maybe as a
Akbar Herndon:
better investment, as I, you know, wanted to think about
Akbar Herndon:
family and a stable lifestyle, and you can't do that when
Akbar Herndon:
you're on the road. So coming to grace in 94 was a real turning
Akbar Herndon:
point, because that meant I wasn't teaching math. It was
Akbar Herndon:
only as computer coordinator, and it was a chance to really
Akbar Herndon:
think about, what is this new field, and what does it need,
Akbar Herndon:
and how can I maybe contribute to that in a way that most other
Akbar Herndon:
disciplines are somewhat fixed. You can explore them in new
Akbar Herndon:
ways. But technology was not fixed. It was we were inventing
Akbar Herndon:
it. So is that a good precursor to
Christina Lewellen:
I love it. That's so great. And now you've
Christina Lewellen:
been at Grace Church school. Tell us about the school. What
Christina Lewellen:
are the demographics? Where is it located? We're in Manhattan.
Akbar Herndon:
The school is over a century old, I think 1894
Akbar Herndon:
It was created as a boys or for a boys choir at Grace Church.
Akbar Herndon:
This was the education component. Now has 850 students.
Akbar Herndon:
Originally was all boys. Now, of course, it's co Ed Pete, 150
Akbar Herndon:
full time faculty, 200 faculty with full time and part time,
Akbar Herndon:
and another 50 staff. We have two campuses. The original
Akbar Herndon:
school, as I said, began back in 1894 and that's the primary
Akbar Herndon:
campus of K through eight, Junior K through eight, but we
Akbar Herndon:
just added a high school. It seems recent to me, but it's
Akbar Herndon:
been 14 years. We have a high school that is on a campus four
Akbar Herndon:
blocks away. Students move between the two campuses in
Akbar Herndon:
Manhattan pretty regularly, but um, the high school pretty much
Akbar Herndon:
who was at the
Christina Lewellen:
southern campus, that's so cool. And the
Christina Lewellen:
idea that you came in as a computer coordinator in those
Christina Lewellen:
early days of coordinating computers is kind of
Christina Lewellen:
interesting. You also were a founder of the neat conference.
Christina Lewellen:
So tell us a little bit about why that was necessary. You and
Christina Lewellen:
some folks got together and said, we need to do this. And to
Christina Lewellen:
think about a technology conference that's 30 years old
Christina Lewellen:
is just kind of crazy to me. I know you guys have been in the
Christina Lewellen:
space for a long time, but ATLIS just celebrated its 10th
Christina Lewellen:
anniversary last year, and so we're relatively new kids on the
Christina Lewellen:
block. So the idea that there's been a tech conference out
Christina Lewellen:
there, and I know there were a lot of precursors to Atlas, but
Christina Lewellen:
why did you feel the need to get people together around this
Christina Lewellen:
topic?
Akbar Herndon:
Technology was a new animal, a new direction. No
Akbar Herndon:
one needed it, but it was slowly creeping its way into the roots
Akbar Herndon:
of every school and every culture around us. And I say no
Akbar Herndon:
one needed it. You know, the math classes did not have a
Akbar Herndon:
space for technology, per se, unless that teacher chose to add
Akbar Herndon:
that component. So it really was sort of a standalone and on the
Akbar Herndon:
other hand, there was a growing dependence on, what could we do,
Akbar Herndon:
you know, presenting reports, comments and reports. We weren't
Akbar Herndon:
quite at the embracing the web yet, but we were in the process
Akbar Herndon:
of embracing the web in schools, we had them, had web contact at
Akbar Herndon:
home and web access AOL in most people's cases. But I think the
Akbar Herndon:
biggest thing was just needing camaraderie, that we were
Akbar Herndon:
looking for a way to share my problem and solution to ask,
Akbar Herndon:
does anyone else run into this to see who else had networked
Akbar Herndon:
their computers to the dot matrix printer using Apple talk,
Akbar Herndon:
and, you know, eventually Ethernet, or whatever next
Akbar Herndon:
generation of connection. When I was hired, my predecessor,
Akbar Herndon:
another computer coordinator, she taught all of the computer
Akbar Herndon:
classes, and that filled her day for five days a week. Those
Akbar Herndon:
computer classes were keyboarding or basic writer,
Akbar Herndon:
early word processors, basics of tools. But I was able to arrange
Akbar Herndon:
to only teach middle school and that the lower school would be
Akbar Herndon:
taught by their own core teachers and assistant teachers,
Akbar Herndon:
and I would work with those teachers. So that was a whole
Akbar Herndon:
new model for me at Grace. And then to be able to compare that
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with other schools, to find out, how do you have time to do those
Akbar Herndon:
other things? Who's teaching the course? What are you teaching in
Akbar Herndon:
those courses? So it was just really a way of comparing notes.
Akbar Herndon:
At first, we met several times here in Manhattan. I remember a
Akbar Herndon:
big turning point meeting at Riverdale, but we knew that the
Akbar Herndon:
heads of school had an annual conference at Mohawk up in New
Akbar Herndon:
halls, New York, beautiful, huge castle that bill was mentioning
Akbar Herndon:
earlier to a beautiful setting and heads were able to enjoy
Akbar Herndon:
this. We propose that we have that opportunity. And NAIS, the
Akbar Herndon:
state association, supported us. So we were able to arrange our
Akbar Herndon:
first conference, and in that conference, I think Alan
Akbar Herndon:
November, he's a instigator, intellectual instigator, was at
Akbar Herndon:
that first conference and really challenged us around things like
Akbar Herndon:
technology plans, which he thought we should throw. Away
Akbar Herndon:
automating, choosing what to automate, and where is this
Akbar Herndon:
going. So it really woke up, I think, a certain conversation
Akbar Herndon:
that not only kept us in contact with each other, but out of the
Akbar Herndon:
neat conference, the nicest listserv which you might be on
Akbar Herndon:
or be aware of, was a cornerstone for people, not in
Akbar Herndon:
New York but across the country, who brought those same problems
Akbar Herndon:
or accolades, or, you know, the exchange was quite alive, and
Akbar Herndon:
it's still functioning 30 years later. And then we also had a
Akbar Herndon:
monthly meeting, naisis meeting, where we brought topics each
Akbar Herndon:
month and discussed, but the real culminating event was
Akbar Herndon:
always the annual conference. So I'll name some of the people
Akbar Herndon:
who, in addition to Alan over the years, who we brought in as
Akbar Herndon:
keynote expertise, Alan Kay, probably our biggest name. That
Akbar Herndon:
was a pretty wonderful weekend of conferencing, Tristan Harris,
Akbar Herndon:
who's more popular right now, Dana Boyd, Manoush, zamorotti.
Akbar Herndon:
These were just off the top of my head, but I just chatted down
Akbar Herndon:
a few names. You know, it was a place to bring your
Akbar Herndon:
understanding and to learn and really, to just relax, finally,
Akbar Herndon:
for two days, but we were constantly on the phone. You
Akbar Herndon:
know, what's happening? Why did it go down? Try this. You didn't
Akbar Herndon:
get away, but you could be in a different place and have
Akbar Herndon:
periods, maybe of relaxing or listening to someone else's
Akbar Herndon:
accomplishments and not having to be on site with the pressures
Akbar Herndon:
that went with keeping the system up, which was largely the
Akbar Herndon:
main goal at the time, is it up, can I depend on it? And slowly,
Akbar Herndon:
as that became more true, that we could depend on it, more and
Akbar Herndon:
more teachers were able to treat it as a reliable source and
Akbar Herndon:
include it in their lesson planning.
Bill Stites:
You mentioned getting away, you mentioned the
Bill Stites:
ability to relax and not really relax. I gotta tell you, in all
Bill Stites:
the times I went there, the location just lends itself to
Bill Stites:
kind of exhaling a little bit. The way in which the conference
Bill Stites:
is structured is, I think, very unique. And having time for the
Bill Stites:
tea, being able to talk to people and kind of explore the
Bill Stites:
space, but also get those one on one times with the people that
Bill Stites:
are there. The other is knowing where it is, the fact that in
Bill Stites:
the main day, you schedule stuff in the morning, you give people
Bill Stites:
time in the afternoon to explore, to spend time with one
Bill Stites:
another. But one of the things that has always struck me, and
Bill Stites:
I've taken pieces of this and brought it into our own
Bill Stites:
professional development here at MKA, is the idea that the
Bill Stites:
knowledge is in the room, and that the model of the conference
Bill Stites:
is an unconference. That's right. So I can imagine
Bill Stites:
Christina just trying to think about running the ATLIS Annual
Bill Stites:
Conference, where it's like, All right, we're gonna have
Bill Stites:
keynotes, and then we're gonna have rooms, and we're gonna let
Bill Stites:
people propose sessions, and then at that conference, they'll
Bill Stites:
go where they want to go. So can you explain, for those that
Bill Stites:
don't know what an unconference is, what it is, how it's
Bill Stites:
structured and run, and what the benefits of that are to that
Bill Stites:
idea that the knowledge really is in the room.
Akbar Herndon:
Thank you, Bill, that's a beautiful call, and
Akbar Herndon:
you're right to be that has become the most important part
Akbar Herndon:
of the conference, more than the keynote speaker. So unconference
Akbar Herndon:
is that either after a keynote speaker has presented, or before
Akbar Herndon:
you even get there that something that you wish to
Akbar Herndon:
discuss, meaning, I'm not an expert in this, but what do you
Akbar Herndon:
think about this idea, or how are you handling this issue? Or
Akbar Herndon:
maybe you are an expert in something that you want to share
Akbar Herndon:
with the group. We line up. There's a call for conferences
Akbar Herndon:
or unconferences. We line up, jot down the name of the event
Akbar Herndon:
we'd like to lead, or convene, is a better word. And then in
Akbar Herndon:
the 20 different rooms that are available, that particular
Akbar Herndon:
unconference is assigned to one of those rooms. You don't know
Akbar Herndon:
how many people are coming, if anyone you're given the power to
Akbar Herndon:
not only just visit, but if you aren't crazy about what's going
Akbar Herndon:
on, or if you feel like it's hit its peak, to get up and go to
Akbar Herndon:
some other conference. The law of traveling
Bill Stites:
feet, that's the best thing. Feel free to leave.
Bill Stites:
You don't need to stay here. If this isn't what you thought it
Bill Stites:
was, get up and go
Akbar Herndon:
and it's not an insult. It's not personal. That
Akbar Herndon:
is great. It allows what Bill is talking about with that key and
Akbar Herndon:
those exchanges. It allows the spontaneity, and I think, a
Akbar Herndon:
level of creativity to appear that in your choosing which one
Akbar Herndon:
to go to, you're also. So allowing something in you to
Akbar Herndon:
sort of Spark, initiate and find a next step. So there might be
Akbar Herndon:
four or five different bands of unconferences, and it sounds
Akbar Herndon:
crazy, you know, how can you fill so many different spaces?
Akbar Herndon:
You won't have anything to talk about. You'll run out of topics.
Akbar Herndon:
That is not true. There's always too many events being proposed,
Akbar Herndon:
and there's time for always, and they don't have to be tech
Akbar Herndon:
things. So usually they are. I jotted down some of the ones I
Akbar Herndon:
remember myself leading in the past that I was going to read to
Akbar Herndon:
you in the very first conference. This was not an
Akbar Herndon:
unconference, so I'm cheating. I had a presentation about the
Akbar Herndon:
difference between an apple, a picture of an apple illustrated
Akbar Herndon:
and a digital representation of an apple. I challenged my
Akbar Herndon:
audience that those were three different types of data which
Akbar Herndon:
had different impressions and different impact on our systems.
Akbar Herndon:
Okay? Unconference. In fact, Ashley cross, who invited me to
Akbar Herndon:
the podcast, heard me propose a conference on conferencing while
Akbar Herndon:
black, and that was a year or two after I proposed another
Akbar Herndon:
conference of similar nature. Why so white? And that came out
Akbar Herndon:
of the fact that in earlier years of this conference, there
Akbar Herndon:
was a much larger demographic of African Americans and people of
Akbar Herndon:
color than I'm seeing there of late. And I don't know what that
Akbar Herndon:
means after the pandemic, maybe your drawback of budget? Who
Akbar Herndon:
knows? But why so white is something that we can go back to
Akbar Herndon:
in a moment, but it was a challenge again to really think
Akbar Herndon:
about what are our practices that are excluding unknowingly,
Akbar Herndon:
some people and not others. What's keeping my comfort level?
Akbar Herndon:
So that's an unconference topic. It was packed. How do we protect
Akbar Herndon:
ourselves? And what is important was another topic. This was
Akbar Herndon:
before AI and its onslaught of demand. It was just technology
Akbar Herndon:
and technology leaders, being at Mohawk is a way of protecting.
Akbar Herndon:
But what do we do? Do we turn it off? Can we put down the phone?
Akbar Herndon:
Do we meditate just hearing each other's insights about how can
Akbar Herndon:
we protect what's human, recognize what's human and feed
Akbar Herndon:
that while balancing the technology demands technology
Akbar Herndon:
department leadership and structures, oh, I led a group on
Akbar Herndon:
meditation, when to turn it off, and that was connected with a
Akbar Herndon:
program we had at Grace called unplug the Connect, where we
Akbar Herndon:
unplug as much as possible for one day. No smart boards. Of
Akbar Herndon:
course, we keep the phones and emergencies available. But to
Akbar Herndon:
really challenge again, where does the teaching come from, and
Akbar Herndon:
what do we find when we aren't looking at a screen? Teacher's
Akbar Herndon:
toolkit, and my list is not as technical as some others.
Akbar Herndon:
There's many attendees who come in with an expertise. You know,
Akbar Herndon:
early on, I'd led sessions like smart boards, 101, and so on.
Akbar Herndon:
But a lot of that was caught up. You know, we caught up with
Akbar Herndon:
those cornerstones. They're now staples in every classroom, but
Akbar Herndon:
there are all sorts of right now AI leaning unconference topics
Akbar Herndon:
that are the current list that one would find
Hiram Cuevas:
so Akbar, I would like to first extend a word of
Hiram Cuevas:
gratitude for developing this conference, because Bill has
Hiram Cuevas:
been trying for years for me to go up to this conference, and
Hiram Cuevas:
it's just a tougher time of year, but I'm originally from
Hiram Cuevas:
New York, so I know the area quite well. Hearing your
Hiram Cuevas:
soothing voice describe the conference even more. Just
Hiram Cuevas:
what's the appetite for wanting to attend it with greater
Hiram Cuevas:
fervor. Now I'd love to also mention that your unconference
Hiram Cuevas:
model has been replicated time and time again in a variety of
Hiram Cuevas:
other venues, and it's certainly a very powerful approach. It is
Hiram Cuevas:
definitely taking the wisdom of the crowds and leveraging the
Hiram Cuevas:
community to provide that dialog that is often needed for folks
Hiram Cuevas:
who may not be heard on a regular basis. So once again,
Hiram Cuevas:
thank you for that. I do want to pivot slightly, because I am so
Hiram Cuevas:
intrigued, from the run of show notes, the diversity of your
Hiram Cuevas:
staff and your department, it truly is quite fascinating. Did
Hiram Cuevas:
you seek this out? Did it happen by accident? Was it a charge by
Hiram Cuevas:
this. Schools leadership and I mean, what's the secret sauce
Hiram Cuevas:
that you have to get this? I mean, let me read off the
Hiram Cuevas:
backgrounds of some of these folks. You have a Dominican, a
Hiram Cuevas:
Guinea and Puerto Rican, an African American, a Ukrainian, a
Hiram Cuevas:
Chinese, Dutch, European American, four women and five
Hiram Cuevas:
men. I mean, you've kind of hit the jackpot on the melting pot
Hiram Cuevas:
there.
Akbar Herndon:
I agree. I feel like I did hit the jackpot. Did
Akbar Herndon:
I do something that I'm aware of? No, I would love to claim
Akbar Herndon:
credit for the secret sauce here,
Hiram Cuevas:
so the stars were all aligned.
Akbar Herndon:
But you know, in truth, my head pointed this out
Akbar Herndon:
to me a couple times, and my former head also, he said, you
Akbar Herndon:
know, you have the most diverse department in the school. I
Akbar Herndon:
mentioned this to other department heads, and that made
Akbar Herndon:
me try to look closer at what does he mean, you know. And it's
Akbar Herndon:
become even more true, to be honest, in the last couple
Akbar Herndon:
years, no, I didn't do something that I could call a technique,
Akbar Herndon:
but I'm sure there is some element of belonging that I
Akbar Herndon:
champion that has to Do with, if not just, attracting and
Akbar Herndon:
recruiting, retaining department members. So, you know, as I
Akbar Herndon:
thought about it, I jotted down a couple notes of things that
Akbar Herndon:
might contribute, and there is some luck, no question, but
Akbar Herndon:
things that might continue, I think, go with the fact that I
Akbar Herndon:
don't see dei as separate from the tech department, and I'd
Akbar Herndon:
never thought about it that way until recently. You know, we
Akbar Herndon:
have a dei office. I've had a lot of roles and impacts on the
Akbar Herndon:
DEI aspect of our school, but I wouldn't have said that was part
Akbar Herndon:
of how the Tech Department operates, but the evidence shows
Akbar Herndon:
otherwise, that there is something about how we operate,
Akbar Herndon:
you know, our recruitment sources, and these are things
Akbar Herndon:
that the ATLIS tech leaders community building framework
Akbar Herndon:
touches on a number of the things I'm mentioning. So
Akbar Herndon:
they're not secrets, but it sort of came together in the right
Akbar Herndon:
way. But things like recruitment sources, we require having a
Akbar Herndon:
person of color in the final round of selection as a school,
Akbar Herndon:
and that predated me, that I encourage the members of my
Akbar Herndon:
department to be active in the DEI programming events. And we
Akbar Herndon:
have some events that are pretty powerful. For instance, every
Akbar Herndon:
year right after Martin Luther King's birthday, we take three
Akbar Herndon:
days for symposia, workshops, assemblies. This started with
Akbar Herndon:
middle school. Remember? High School just came on 14 years
Akbar Herndon:
ago, but they've embraced this. We take those days and we look
Akbar Herndon:
at topics like gender expansive identities, algorithmic bias,
Akbar Herndon:
automating racism. And for me, it's the most alive time of
Akbar Herndon:
school year. We bring in a keynote speaker, and I urge my
Akbar Herndon:
staff, the tech staff, to be involved, not just in helping
Akbar Herndon:
set up, which, of course, comes back to us, but have a seat in
Akbar Herndon:
that room that you just set up. We'll get someone else to cover
Akbar Herndon:
your floor. We find ways to make sure that they have access to
Akbar Herndon:
their own cultural feeding and needs. We try to make everyone
Akbar Herndon:
feel like this is theirs. So I meet with my staff regularly.
Akbar Herndon:
Seven out of nine, I would say I see every week, and then we
Akbar Herndon:
alternate. So there's a caring that I try to make sure they
Akbar Herndon:
understand I am literally interested in their next step,
Akbar Herndon:
and what is it they see themselves doing in five years?
Akbar Herndon:
What would help you to that next step? Where are there holes in
Akbar Herndon:
how you've been brought into the school? Let's look at that
Akbar Herndon:
together. So again, these are not tech things. I know some
Akbar Herndon:
tech stuff. There's most stuff I don't know anymore. You know,
Akbar Herndon:
it's gone beyond me. I can't keep up with it, so I work with
Akbar Herndon:
my tech director of infrastructure to know what's
Akbar Herndon:
needed and what the next decision is. But I can urge that
Akbar Herndon:
tech director of infrastructure to speak at Ramadan chapel, and
Akbar Herndon:
he is suddenly now at the center of something that is so
Akbar Herndon:
important to him and his family, and that's not separate from his
Akbar Herndon:
job. That is part of not only his job, but he's our teacher at
Akbar Herndon:
that point. I love that. So I look for situations. I look for
Akbar Herndon:
situations where you. Chapel could be a place for sharing,
Akbar Herndon:
but being called into a classroom might also be that
Akbar Herndon:
chance for sharing a whole other level of identity.
Christina Lewellen:
I love that. I would imagine that these
Christina Lewellen:
issues have gotten a little bit more complicated now in this era
Christina Lewellen:
of AI and Dr Herndon, I'm curious what your school's
Christina Lewellen:
position is. You know, everybody's in a different place
Christina Lewellen:
in their AI journey. There's some intersectionality that I'm
Christina Lewellen:
sure is happening in some of these topics and now with AI on
Christina Lewellen:
the scene. So how are you guys thinking about AI and how does
Christina Lewellen:
that sort of work into the fabric of your school?
Akbar Herndon:
We, like many schools, within a month or two
Akbar Herndon:
of open AI's release, we were cautious. We were afraid. I
Akbar Herndon:
think a lot of our reaction was the threat of AI and the
Akbar Herndon:
articles that were flying around. We formed a committee to
Akbar Herndon:
look closer, look for ways to try and guide students. We
Akbar Herndon:
developed the philosophy and policy that I think was not bad
Akbar Herndon:
for that time, and are only now ready to upgrade it to a next
Akbar Herndon:
step, but that first level was that we offered training.
Akbar Herndon:
Certainly, we offered licenses, paid licenses, to faculty from
Akbar Herndon:
any platform encouraging them to explore. We made it clear that
Akbar Herndon:
teachers determined whether AI was invited as part of that
Akbar Herndon:
lesson and class work and at the same time, students were
Akbar Herndon:
encouraged to explore. And we in all of our technology courses,
Akbar Herndon:
starting in second grade through high school, had a component of
Akbar Herndon:
every course that spoke to prompt engineering, explaining
Akbar Herndon:
what is an LLM, comparing, you know, writing their own material
Akbar Herndon:
and comparing the outcome from any of the generative AI
Akbar Herndon:
platforms that were so popular. You know, we, I think, struggled
Akbar Herndon:
really with that point of honesty dishonesty. No real
Akbar Herndon:
checker was accurate enough, and if it came down to our word
Akbar Herndon:
against their word, very uncomfortable to say we really
Akbar Herndon:
don't think this is you, and they're saying, No, it is me and
Akbar Herndon:
the text reviewer, you know, chat GPT zero, not really giving
Akbar Herndon:
enough support in either direction. I feel that now where
Akbar Herndon:
we are at is we are mandating a training that will make sure
Akbar Herndon:
everyone, all the faculty, at least, and staff, has basic
Akbar Herndon:
information enough to make decisions about their class. I
Akbar Herndon:
think we're moving towards requiring that there be some
Akbar Herndon:
level of AI included in every class that can use it wisely. I
Akbar Herndon:
don't think there should ever be a time when it has to be used.
Akbar Herndon:
On the other hand, I think every teacher should have the
Akbar Herndon:
capability of deciding Yes, this is a good tool that the
Akbar Herndon:
assignment is no longer gather your sources and analyze them.
Akbar Herndon:
The assignment is now take those gathered sources that you may
Akbar Herndon:
have used AI for and create a next step that will enhance a
Akbar Herndon:
particular goal that was stated. So there's a place for it, but I
Akbar Herndon:
think we are only figuring out what that place looks like we
Akbar Herndon:
did in our first iteration very quickly see that we have to base
Akbar Herndon:
all of these decisions not only on our mission, but on the
Akbar Herndon:
values that we champion as a school and particularly
Akbar Herndon:
initiative. There are many places that would say, yes, use
Akbar Herndon:
it to brainstorm. I am not so sure about that. I like when we
Akbar Herndon:
create the ideas initially and then compare notes and can
Akbar Herndon:
brainstorm from there, but that we retain that first step, and
Akbar Herndon:
so we have something we call the human first protocol that we
Akbar Herndon:
teach in our classes, with students and with teachers, to
Akbar Herndon:
take that first step and not lose our ability to risk putting
Akbar Herndon:
our ideas out there. So it's a very fine line, but it's one
Akbar Herndon:
that so far has held up as we compare it with policies that we
Akbar Herndon:
think we're moving towards. We want to renew our discussion of
Akbar Herndon:
guided. Student use beyond classes, like I said, we provide
Akbar Herndon:
paid licenses. We are providing guidelines now as to, you know
Akbar Herndon:
what is a private and protected environment that students can
Akbar Herndon:
use? For instance, since we're a Google school, Gemini is a
Akbar Herndon:
protected area. We shouldn't be starting with the free chat GPT
Akbar Herndon:
with students, so that's not clear for every teacher, so
Akbar Herndon:
we're building those guidelines and sharing with them what we
Akbar Herndon:
think are the next steps. And then there are examples like
Akbar Herndon:
took our HR guidelines, combined it with our faculty handbook in
Akbar Herndon:
a Gemini gem. We call it the HR advisor, and you can ask any
Akbar Herndon:
question that calls on those two documents, and it's a very easy
Akbar Herndon:
way of seeing a great use for AI without the question of loss of
Akbar Herndon:
initiative or creativity and so on. But those other questions
Akbar Herndon:
about those things that we need as humans, I think, has to drive
Akbar Herndon:
this, and I'm a little nervous, I have to admit, about how much
Akbar Herndon:
of it we can retain as the flood gates are opened wider and
Akbar Herndon:
wider, I think we have a good intention. But I think given the
Akbar Herndon:
choice of ease that generative AI offers versus effortful
Akbar Herndon:
thinking that we know has to be part of our development as
Akbar Herndon:
challenge that eventually the ease will win out. It's quicker.
Akbar Herndon:
It costs less. You don't even have to have humans involved.
Akbar Herndon:
And as much as we can say right now, of course, we want humans.
Akbar Herndon:
We have to keep humans at the center of this. I'm not
Akbar Herndon:
convinced that we can keep the flood on the other side of the
Akbar Herndon:
town?
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah. I mean, that's where, like, the
Christina Lewellen:
rhythm project is trying to advocate, you know, basically
Christina Lewellen:
what you're saying is that it's a little bit frictionless. And
Christina Lewellen:
the rhythm project is trying to say, No, especially with kids,
Christina Lewellen:
they need that healthy arm wrestling. They need that
Christina Lewellen:
pushback and certain reminders of like, Hey, I'm not a human,
Christina Lewellen:
I'm just AI. So to put a little bit of friction into the system
Christina Lewellen:
is probably a good thing, especially for our young people
Christina Lewellen:
who are just trying to figure this all out and understand that
Christina Lewellen:
taking the quote, easy way out is something that we're going to
Christina Lewellen:
have to figure out what that looks like moving forward,
Christina Lewellen:
right? Because we all had to work our way through looking up
Christina Lewellen:
phone numbers in the phone book. Interestingly, you've been in
Christina Lewellen:
technology for so long that you've seen these shifts. So do
Christina Lewellen:
you feel like this one's the biggest compared to when the
Christina Lewellen:
internet came around and people were stressing about what that
Christina Lewellen:
did in terms of education? Is this really a ground shifting
Christina Lewellen:
moment for education. I think so.
Akbar Herndon:
I do. I would have said no to that a year or
Akbar Herndon:
two ago, and was driving it and making me lose, not faith, but
Akbar Herndon:
making me feel that this is larger than ever. Is the
Akbar Herndon:
financial momentum, not millionaires or even
Akbar Herndon:
billionaires, but trillionaires. Well, some companies who have
Akbar Herndon:
such a stock in this and are using education as a way of
Akbar Herndon:
laying a groundwork for a paradigm shift. So I don't want
Akbar Herndon:
to be a downer, but I do think we have a grave situation in
Akbar Herndon:
front of us that, of course, there are ways of using this new
Akbar Herndon:
tool that are a benefit, and we want to find them and get better
Akbar Herndon:
at them. I'll be the first to mention I use AI very rarely,
Akbar Herndon:
but I teach it. I can teach students how to use it, and I
Akbar Herndon:
can use it in some ways that are careful. I want to learn better
Akbar Herndon:
ways and more sure ways of supporting our school,
Akbar Herndon:
supporting our school, mission of developing our humanness.
Akbar Herndon:
That creative initiative I mentioned, I think, is a
Akbar Herndon:
cornerstone human first curiosity challenge to care and
Akbar Herndon:
be cared for. Those are things that I think we need as humans,
Akbar Herndon:
and I will fight to the end that we keep them in our life. But I
Akbar Herndon:
think we have to be honest as we see the demand growing for
Akbar Herndon:
what's required. As I said, I never would want to see it
Akbar Herndon:
required that we use AI in living and on the other hand,
Akbar Herndon:
I'm not alone in that, but I think that there are a lot of
Akbar Herndon:
people who would say otherwise that it should be required.
Hiram Cuevas:
So Akbar, you had mentioned in your exchange with
Hiram Cuevas:
Christina about the friction between AI. And the students.
Hiram Cuevas:
I'm curious, since you're using Gemini at your school, has your
Hiram Cuevas:
faculty leveraged the guided learning feature within it,
Hiram Cuevas:
which actually pushes back on the student some more so that
Hiram Cuevas:
they're asking thoughtful questions, as opposed to just
Hiram Cuevas:
getting an answer being a Gen X baby on the cusp of almost a
Hiram Cuevas:
boomer, I could definitely remember the days where I could
Hiram Cuevas:
have 50 plus phone numbers in the back of my brain. Not so
Hiram Cuevas:
much today, but the guided learning feature. I'm curious if
Hiram Cuevas:
you all have leveraged that within Gemini, because it mimics
Hiram Cuevas:
essentially what another AI platform, Flint AI, if you're
Hiram Cuevas:
not utilizing that at Grace does Yes,
Akbar Herndon:
we are considering Flint. I have not,
Akbar Herndon:
but I'm with a committee right now who's looking at guides like
Akbar Herndon:
the guided learning feature, pulling together a resource
Akbar Herndon:
guide. We're hoping that our school can then share with
Akbar Herndon:
teachers, giving them choices, but also making it clear that
Akbar Herndon:
there are some things here that all of us can benefit from, and
Akbar Herndon:
that's part of I think I mentioned something about
Akbar Herndon:
mandated training that should be the basis of that mandated
Akbar Herndon:
training. So thank you for mentioning it. I'm not familiar
Akbar Herndon:
enough yet, but it is part of a list of different sources we are
Akbar Herndon:
working from.
Hiram Cuevas:
Well, the landscape is ever changing, and
Hiram Cuevas:
it's one of those features that I have found causes some sweat
Hiram Cuevas:
on the brow of our students, because it's not giving them the
Hiram Cuevas:
answer immediately, it's forcing them to actually rethink and
Hiram Cuevas:
retool their prompts so that they actually solicit the type
Hiram Cuevas:
of information that they're after. I think you'll be
Hiram Cuevas:
pleasantly surprised by it.
Akbar Herndon:
I will definitely follow up on that. I jotted it
Akbar Herndon:
down, and I've seen reference to it before, but we have three or
Akbar Herndon:
four, and you mentioned Flint, I think that's a good in between
Akbar Herndon:
tool, Flint that can use the benefits of guided guardrails,
Akbar Herndon:
really, and then repeated support without losing that
Akbar Herndon:
initiative that I keep coming back to as so crucial.
Hiram Cuevas:
What I also found interesting about the flint
Hiram Cuevas:
product is that it allows you to add a certain persona for your
Hiram Cuevas:
entire domain. So we essentially added our pillars and
Hiram Cuevas:
essentially the ethos of st Christopher's school, so it now
Hiram Cuevas:
knows that it should be responding with that knowledge
Hiram Cuevas:
that we're an Episcopal School and that we are an all boys
Hiram Cuevas:
school as well. And so it's really interesting to see the
Hiram Cuevas:
types of responses that are then generated by the LLM that is
Hiram Cuevas:
matching what we believe we are as an institution, and it
Hiram Cuevas:
becomes a very supportive process there. That's great.
Akbar Herndon:
And we're also an Episcopal School, so the
Akbar Herndon:
language that goes with that environment, it's even part of
Akbar Herndon:
the beauty of that kind of training that I would want to
Akbar Herndon:
tap into.
Christina Lewellen:
So Dr Herndon, I know that you
Christina Lewellen:
mentioned, as we were just getting on the call this
Christina Lewellen:
morning, that you're not necessarily the biggest consumer
Christina Lewellen:
of podcasts, so we very much appreciate you being here, but
Christina Lewellen:
you clearly are a consumer of knowledge and thought
Christina Lewellen:
leadership. So tell us a little bit about what you are reading,
Christina Lewellen:
what you listen to, what voices you pay attention to. So
Christina Lewellen:
obviously, there's a lot of change happening in our space
Christina Lewellen:
right now. So where do you educate yourself, and in what
Christina Lewellen:
ways
Akbar Herndon:
I'm digging deeper into the ATLIS resources.
Akbar Herndon:
To be honest, I say it without any hesitation, really, I feel
Akbar Herndon:
like I was not paying attention to a lot of the outside world,
Akbar Herndon:
maybe of technology in schools, until recently, with the
Akbar Herndon:
pandemic and say, have got more interested? ATLIS is amazing.
Akbar Herndon:
The depth of resources that I'm finding have made it so that
Akbar Herndon:
that's where I'm starting to turn to first. More often than
Akbar Herndon:
not, I've listened to about 1015, podcasts in the last two
Akbar Herndon:
months. I love it. It's true, and they're good. That's the
Akbar Herndon:
thing I'm learning. I feel like I know people, you know, Daisy
Akbar Herndon:
Seale, we've never met, but oh, she's the best. I agree. Allison
Akbar Herndon:
Ross,
Christina Lewellen:
yeah. Oh, she's great too.
Akbar Herndon:
So I feel like I'm not reaching very far out
Akbar Herndon:
into resources beyond my school, but I am looking for better
Akbar Herndon:
resources. Us by reaching out and ways of measuring, for
Akbar Herndon:
instance, the effectiveness of our infrastructure, of our cyber
Akbar Herndon:
security program, of our ed tech usage, I can find elements of
Akbar Herndon:
all of that within ATLIS. I'm a believer. I've been converted.
Christina Lewellen:
I love it. Audience. I did not pay him to
Christina Lewellen:
say that. Yeah. I mean, it is a community. And what's great is
Christina Lewellen:
when you get smart technology people together, they find the
Christina Lewellen:
commonalities, they find the shared issues and the shared
Christina Lewellen:
celebrations, and then they're just so open to sharing it. So
Christina Lewellen:
it really makes ATLIS job more one of facilitation and just
Christina Lewellen:
bringing the minds together than it is that we're driving a bunch
Christina Lewellen:
of this thought leadership independent of our volunteers,
Christina Lewellen:
because they're fantastic. So it's a useful and I think really
Christina Lewellen:
important community, but I know I'm biased.
Akbar Herndon:
And then naisis New York City consortium, who
Akbar Herndon:
was a partner group with the need conference has been
Akbar Herndon:
generating what presenting, creating resources for 30 years,
Akbar Herndon:
and have online records of exchanges and questions and
Akbar Herndon:
search for help. So in a way, that point that Bill made about
Akbar Herndon:
the knowledge is in the room, which is the sign off of the
Akbar Herndon:
nicest Miss serve showed itself in ATLIS, but I feel is very
Akbar Herndon:
much still very alive in all of the nicest events at the knee
Akbar Herndon:
conference, even. So I'll continue there.
Christina Lewellen:
So speaking of that, before we run out of
Christina Lewellen:
time, can you tell listeners who maybe haven't experienced the
Christina Lewellen:
NEET event, when does it happen, and is it open to anybody who
Christina Lewellen:
wants to come check it out, like what's on the horizon for the
Christina Lewellen:
NEET event? So I'm no
Akbar Herndon:
longer on the Coordinating Committee. I was
Akbar Herndon:
for many years who planned the details. Our schedule has moved
Akbar Herndon:
around. Originally it was mid November, and just in this
Akbar Herndon:
school year, returned to that time slot. I think it's one week
Akbar Herndon:
after the heads conference. It was for a while in January, but
Akbar Herndon:
right now, I think we're trying to keep it in that November
Akbar Herndon:
slot. So it's the second, third week of November, going to the
Akbar Herndon:
NAIS website, n, y, s, a is New York Association of Independent
Akbar Herndon:
Schools, will have a link describing when and the
Akbar Herndon:
registration process as they are still the host organization. I
Akbar Herndon:
don't know what's on the horizon in terms of formal planning of,
Akbar Herndon:
for instance, Keynote presenters, but I'm positive the
Akbar Herndon:
unconference format will continue, and as every
Akbar Herndon:
conference has been sort of dominated by AI and its
Akbar Herndon:
evolution, I'm sure that it's going to continue our main
Akbar Herndon:
shared read, AI, snake oil. You know, it's all going back to
Akbar Herndon:
questioning what's real here, what's to be held on to. And I'm
Akbar Herndon:
sure those are the things to be explored at the knee conference.
Akbar Herndon:
But I don't really have the details of who's going to be
Akbar Herndon:
there leading that charge. I will nice, but I won't be the
Akbar Herndon:
keynote speaker.
Bill Stites:
The one thing I would add to that is, you know,
Bill Stites:
we talked about that conference a lot from the technology
Bill Stites:
perspective, but we've had some of the best conversations when
Bill Stites:
we brought our librarians, when we've brought our curriculum
Bill Stites:
leaders, when we've brought the Tech because just that audience,
Bill Stites:
that group is second to none. And again, those conversations
Bill Stites:
that ensue both amongst the people that you bring and the
Bill Stites:
people that you meet in all hours. I mean, that's where it
Bill Stites:
aligns with honestly the Atlas conference, because from hitting
Bill Stites:
the gym in the morning and the coffee and the conversations you
Bill Stites:
have at Atlas all the way up until everyone coming back from
Bill Stites:
dinners and hanging out downstairs, the conversation is
Bill Stites:
from Don deltask, and it just works out beautifully. And
Bill Stites:
that's why I think the two are so closely aligned. And if
Bill Stites:
people ask me where to go, my first love is always ATLIS. But
Bill Stites:
again, if you could make the neat conference work, you will
Bill Stites:
never be disappointed.
Akbar Herndon:
I'm glad you said that, Bill, because I neglected
Akbar Herndon:
to really describe the overall purpose of NEET, and I read it
Akbar Herndon:
literally to promote connections between librarians and
Akbar Herndon:
technologists and cultivate the relationship between IT
Akbar Herndon:
operations, library services, technology education,
Akbar Herndon:
information literacy. So librarians have been central to
Akbar Herndon:
neat from the beginning, I talk more about the technology part,
Akbar Herndon:
because that's who I am, but my librarian and I go to that
Akbar Herndon:
conference annually and come back as a team. I love
Christina Lewellen:
it well. Thank you so much for joining us
Christina Lewellen:
today and sharing so much about not only your journey. Bit about
Christina Lewellen:
these really important topics. As always, the hour flies by. I
Christina Lewellen:
really appreciate you joining us and spending the time with us.
Christina Lewellen:
This was fantastic, and we welcome you back at any point if
Christina Lewellen:
you want to dive into any of these big picture things,
Christina Lewellen:
because this was fantastic.
Akbar Herndon:
Thank you, Christina and Bill and Hiram. I
Akbar Herndon:
enjoyed this thoroughly, and I'm looking forward to next time
Peter Frank:
this has been talking technology with ATLIS,
Peter Frank:
produced by the Association of technology leaders in
Peter Frank:
independent schools. For more information about Atlas and
Peter Frank:
Atlas membership, please visit the atlas.org if you enjoyed
Peter Frank:
this discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and
Peter Frank:
share this podcast with your colleagues in the independent
Peter Frank:
school community. Thank you for listening. You.
