Validating Leadership: The TLIS Certification Journey with Tomarra Londeree, Lauren Marquez, and John Grube
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Three independent school technology leaders—Lauren Marquez, John Grube, and Tomarra Londeree—join the show to share their unique pathways to earning the TLIS certification. They discuss how the process validated their expertise, helped them overcome imposter syndrome, and bridged the gap between educational technology and IT operations within their school communities.
Transcript
Peter Frank:
Matt, welcome to Talking technology with ATLIS,
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the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
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technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
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We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
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special guests from the Independent School community,
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and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Peter Frank:
Hello there, and welcome to Talking technology with ATLIS. I
Peter Frank:
am Peter Frank. I am the Senior Director of certification and
Peter Frank:
operations for the Association of technology leaders in
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independent schools.
Hiram Cuevas:
And I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of
Hiram Cuevas:
Information Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher
Hiram Cuevas:
school in Richmond, Virginia. Hiram, Peter, it's us. It is
Hiram Cuevas:
indeed. We are without mom and Bill,
Peter Frank:
that's right. We have team Android, Team Android.
Peter Frank:
Green bubble, that's right. So we have high hopes here for this
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episode. Yes, we do miss our CO hosts, but they will be back.
Peter Frank:
They'll be back soon. Actually, we're wrapping up the end of
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2025, we're in our last few episodes here. We've got
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something special actually coming up after this episode
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will be our 100th episode. Hiram, what do you think of
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that?
Hiram Cuevas:
It is hard to believe we've done this 100
Hiram Cuevas:
times. That
Peter Frank:
kind of sounded like, do you feel like it's been
Peter Frank:
100 times? That sounds like you feel like, yeah, it's been 100
Peter Frank:
times.
Hiram Cuevas:
Anytime I get to banter with one. William Stites,
Hiram Cuevas:
it's all good,
Peter Frank:
nice, yeah, for sure, the podcast is definitely
Peter Frank:
a highlight for me as well. So our CO hosts will be back. We
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usually start off with some sort of easy question, Hiram, we
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don't have a ton of time because we have some excellent guests.
Peter Frank:
We have multiple guests this time, and we want to get to
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that, but real quick before we do though, I had an interesting
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thing just happened to me, because we're recording this the
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week of Thanksgiving, and I mentioned to someone that the
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thing I like doing the least is the mashed potatoes, and so I
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always do that a day or two early. And that led to a
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conversation that you cannot reheat mashed potatoes, which I
Peter Frank:
have never heard before. What is your take mashed potatoes? Yes,
Peter Frank:
you can reheat them. Or no way I've got to eat them the same
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day,
Hiram Cuevas:
or I'm not eating them. Well, I make the mashed
Hiram Cuevas:
potatoes for our family, okay? And we eat them throughout the
Hiram Cuevas:
week, right? I grew up with swatson's TV dinners, so I would
Hiram Cuevas:
have that turkey and mashed potatoes with the stuffing and
Hiram Cuevas:
the little cherry pie that was always, you know, 8000 degrees
Hiram Cuevas:
when it came out of the oven. So, you know, it's all good,
Hiram Cuevas:
right? Burn your mouth all the good stuff. Okay, here's my
Hiram Cuevas:
question for you real quick. Okay, canned cranberry sauce or
Hiram Cuevas:
the real stuff?
Peter Frank:
So I do neither. I get cranberries, soak them in a
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simple syrup, rinse them, roll them in sugar. So we have, like,
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a bowl of sugared cranberry that just sits out on the counter,
Peter Frank:
and we just pick at it all day long. Nice.
Hiram Cuevas:
I like that. Yeah, we make fresh, but I've done
Hiram Cuevas:
both, but I still like the fresh, nice. There's something
Hiram Cuevas:
about cranberry sauce in the shape of a can.
Peter Frank:
It's a little odd. It's become a thing for us. I
Peter Frank:
think it's very much American. Yeah, very much. So now that we
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have all of that resolved and satisfied, I'm sure our
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listeners are happy about that, we will get on to the good stuff
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here. Today, we're going to talk about career evolution in the
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independent school technology world. Our three guests have
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many things in common, one of which is they've all learned
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ATLIS certification, the T list, the technology leaders and
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independent school certification. So they have all
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gone on this journey from the thing they did first to you know
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what they're doing now, to leading all of it.
Hiram Cuevas:
All right, so let me ask you a question, Peter, I
Hiram Cuevas:
think you and Stites have it out for me here. Okay, you bring
Hiram Cuevas:
this T list cohort in and what appears in my profile in the
Hiram Cuevas:
ATLIS website.
Peter Frank:
We may have mentioned more than once that
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Hiram has yet to earn the T list certification, and Hiram
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believes it's suspicious now that we keep having tealist
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things come up
Hiram Cuevas:
35 years in the industry, and my profile says
Hiram Cuevas:
Tila certified, no,
Peter Frank:
which I think is a software setup thing. But
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anyways, I don't know Hiram after this conversation, let's
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see what you think. All right, you've got an all star team
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here. Let's go for it. That's right. We need so we need to get
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to our guests. So let's have the three of you introduce
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yourselves. Why don't you tell us your title, your school, then
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why don't you also mention how long it's been since you've
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earned the T list? Let's start with Lauren, and then John and
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then Tamara. Go ahead, Lauren, John.
Lauren Marquez:
Hi. I'm Lauren Marquez. I am the Director of
Lauren Marquez:
Educational Technology at St Mary's School in Raleigh, North
Lauren Marquez:
Carolina, and I was part of the first cohort that earned their T
Lauren Marquez:
list certification. So however many years ago, that's been like
Lauren Marquez:
two.
Peter Frank:
Maybe that's right, about two and a half. Probably
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he'll kind of blend together. Now, that's right, John. How
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about you?
John Grube:
I'm the director of technology and Operations here
John Grube:
at the face School in Houston, Texas, and I was also member of
John Grube:
the first cohort for the tlis May of 24
Peter Frank:
man. Very good. And
Tomarra Londeree:
Tamara, Hi, I'm Tamara laundry, and I'm the
Tomarra Londeree:
director of modern learning at Providence Day School in
Tomarra Londeree:
Charlotte, North Carolina, I just got my T list two weeks
Tomarra Londeree:
ago. So super new,
Peter Frank:
excellent, super exciting. That's right, we
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wanted to have guests from as long as a two or three years ago
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earning the T list to someone who just earned it just a couple
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weeks ago. So that's great again. Thanks to all three of
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you for being on so Tamara, tell us a little bit about like, the
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beginning of this journey. The first thing you did when you
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were more of a specialist and just kind of focused on one main
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thing. What was that? For you?
Tomarra Londeree:
I've been at Providence day six years, but
Tomarra Londeree:
prior to that, I was in the classroom. I was a first grade
Tomarra Londeree:
teacher, moved on to, like, an ed tech role, and then became
Tomarra Londeree:
the lead ed tech. And so I was really focused on the teaching
Tomarra Londeree:
and learning part, and that's what I love in my bread and
Tomarra Londeree:
butter. And so that's kind of where I started. And so when I
Tomarra Londeree:
came to Providence day, it was more of like I was seeing that
Tomarra Londeree:
people were like, hey, what's my password? Or, you know, those
Tomarra Londeree:
kind of like more it things. And so my buy in was really helping
Tomarra Londeree:
teachers understand what my role was as far as instructional
Tomarra Londeree:
technology goes, and how I could really help supplement some
Tomarra Londeree:
things in their classroom and enhance their curriculum. So
Tomarra Londeree:
that was kind of where I started.
Peter Frank:
Yeah, and that sounds like more than just one
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thing that was immediately lots of things, yeah, which is how it
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goes. I understand, John, so you've been in this world for a
Peter Frank:
very long time. I saw you had a title kindergarten technology
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teacher.
John Grube:
That is correct, around 2012 our technology
John Grube:
teacher here, at Faye, left for another job, a director job in
John Grube:
California, and we couldn't find the right fit. Before school
John Grube:
started, they asked if I was interested. I said, Yeah, I
John Grube:
think I could do that, because I had taught at a previous school,
John Grube:
but that was eighth grade, and so in service, they mentioned
John Grube:
that I was going to be the technology teacher for
John Grube:
kindergarten through fifth grade, they hadn't really asked,
John Grube:
but that was when I knew I was going to be doing it. And I'll
John Grube:
tell you, kindergarten is a different beast. If you don't
John Grube:
come prepared, they will humble you very quickly.
Peter Frank:
I believe you, I have subbed before in those
Peter Frank:
younger grades, they were definitely a challenge, for
Peter Frank:
sure. Did you consider yourself more of a techie person or more
Peter Frank:
of a teacher
John Grube:
techie, for sure. So I started right out of college,
John Grube:
kind of dating myself, graduating, oh, for and I jumped
John Grube:
right into a school, my first school that I was at, not
John Grube:
knowing what I was going to be stepping into, just knowing I
John Grube:
was gonna be a help desk. You know, we were transitioning from
John Grube:
a Norvell network to a Windows network. That's how old that
John Grube:
was. And, you know, they had 9.0 Max, and they wanted to go to
John Grube:
PCs at that time. And so that's where I came in to this
John Grube:
education world. And was apprehensive, was a little
John Grube:
nervous, but jumped in with two feet and been the best thing
John Grube:
I've done,
Peter Frank:
nice and Lauren, you have a title like faculty,
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technology representative on your resume, as far as like the
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technology department or technology staff, was it more of
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an us, or was that more of a them? When you first started?
Lauren Marquez:
Well, when I first started, I was in the
Lauren Marquez:
classroom and I was in the science department go science,
Lauren Marquez:
teaching physics and chemistry, and eventually worked through
Lauren Marquez:
biology, so all of the sciences at some point, but I was
Lauren Marquez:
bringing all of the technology in and just doing it with my
Lauren Marquez:
classes and other teachers found out. And they were like, okay,
Lauren Marquez:
so how do I do this too? And I was like, Oh, well, I mean, you
Lauren Marquez:
can do it like this, and you can do it you can do it like that,
Lauren Marquez:
and then covid hit, and I was the only one who actually had
Lauren Marquez:
online experience teaching prior. And so it very quickly
Lauren Marquez:
got pulled into, okay, so how do we do this? And I was like, Oh,
Lauren Marquez:
well, okay, sure, let's talk through what this looks like.
Lauren Marquez:
And it's just kind of spiraled from there and grown every year
Lauren Marquez:
since,
Peter Frank:
sure, we love the origin stories on this podcast.
Peter Frank:
For sure, everyone always has the overarching similarities,
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but then everyone's individual path always has these unique
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nuances, which we find interesting. So you all started
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in these specific roles. You're not running everything, but it's
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inevitable that. The scope creeps John, you're at a smaller
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school, less than 300 people still probably at the Fay
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school, just around 300 Okay, so it makes sense that at that you
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become more of a generalist, pretty much by necessity. So was
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there any specific moment or big project that really stretched
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you, especially with an IT background, but now you have the
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it to run the school, okay, but now you have all this, the
Peter Frank:
technology that the faculty is asking you to for help with and
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whatnot. So was, yeah, was there any, like, one thing, or series
Peter Frank:
of things that really stretched you to become more well rounded
Peter Frank:
with all of the technology at the school?
John Grube:
I came in here at Faye in 2010 and I was the
John Grube:
systems administrator. That was my first time being on my own
John Grube:
and then taking on the teaching role the instructional
John Grube:
technology. You know, that was the first time that I brought in
John Grube:
somebody that I managed. And that was probably the turning
John Grube:
point, managing and somebody else and understanding that they
John Grube:
are reflection on me, and I am of them to some extent. And
John Grube:
there was things that I did wrong, you know, and I learned a
John Grube:
lot of lessons from that. And, you know, delegation and just
John Grube:
working with each other, having some good, better communications
John Grube:
through that process. Sure.
Peter Frank:
Tamara, your current title is director of
Peter Frank:
modern learning, yes. So it sounds very ed tech, yes. But is
Peter Frank:
it just ed tech, or do you also have things that you have to get
Peter Frank:
into that might deal with, I don't know, budgets or staff, or
Peter Frank:
things that are not Ed techie? Is there anything that you've
Peter Frank:
had to become familiar with very fast with the current role?
Tomarra Londeree:
Yes, we changed it to Director of modern
Tomarra Londeree:
learning, as far as like Ed Tech and technology is in everything.
Tomarra Londeree:
And so we really wanted to make sure that it wasn't like this
Tomarra Londeree:
separate role, like everyone is integrating technology in the
Tomarra Londeree:
classroom. And so what does that look like curriculum? TK,
Tomarra Londeree:
through 12. And so when I was doing Ali, the Leadership
Tomarra Londeree:
Institute, one of the lessons is to meet with like, the CFO of
Tomarra Londeree:
your school. And at that moment, I was like, Oh, okay. Like, I
Tomarra Londeree:
know what she does, and I know it's a lot, but we have 2000
Tomarra Londeree:
students and over 350 faculty members, so like, you know, it's
Tomarra Londeree:
hard to get that meeting. And so I remember that was the first
Tomarra Londeree:
time when I sat down with her and asked some questions. That's
Tomarra Londeree:
when I was like, oh, there's so much more that I don't know.
Tomarra Londeree:
With the Ed Tech and director of modern learning, I'm doing the
Tomarra Londeree:
teaching and learning and the professional development part
Tomarra Londeree:
like that is really what I'm doing a lot of. But then it
Tomarra Londeree:
became, well, what does the budget look like? And we wanted
Tomarra Londeree:
some VR headsets, and we wanted some other things to implement.
Tomarra Londeree:
And so that's when she sat down and she was like, Well, we
Tomarra Londeree:
already know our budget five years from now. And I was like,
Tomarra Londeree:
oh, okay, I'm used to, like, just paying for those, you know,
Tomarra Londeree:
yearly subscriptions to our digital subscriptions, and so I
Tomarra Londeree:
do the renewals on those every year. But I didn't realize,
Tomarra Londeree:
like, different funding, like, she's already five to 10 years
Tomarra Londeree:
out. And so in that moment, I was like, Okay, I have a lot to
Tomarra Londeree:
learn. And like, let's really dive into this operational side
Tomarra Londeree:
of things and the leadership and the governance, because that's
Tomarra Londeree:
not necessarily like what I had been faking. And so that was
Tomarra Londeree:
really eye opening for me, of just trying to understand more
Tomarra Londeree:
of what that looks like.
Hiram Cuevas:
So who came up with the title? You or Matt. How
Hiram Cuevas:
was it a combo?
Tomarra Londeree:
We know the answer to that. Hiram, you know
Tomarra Londeree:
Matt, he loves a good title. It's a huge shift of trying to
Tomarra Londeree:
get teachers and faculty to really understand what that
Tomarra Londeree:
position looks like, and what that means. And so with that
Tomarra Londeree:
position, I'm now like part of curriculum Council and Academic
Tomarra Londeree:
Council, and things that like are moving forward in a
Tomarra Londeree:
strategic way, instead of just living in the operations every
Tomarra Londeree:
day. So it's been a nice change. Sure.
Peter Frank:
Yeah, we should acknowledge for our listeners.
Peter Frank:
So Matt is Matt Scully, who is a longtime friend of the podcast
Peter Frank:
and ATLIS Lauren, was there anything specific as you moved
Peter Frank:
up to other roles? Was there a thing that challenged you or
Peter Frank:
that especially stretched where you'd come from and what you
Peter Frank:
needed to do now as you moved up the ladder?
Lauren Marquez:
Yeah, I think I also had to learn some of the
Lauren Marquez:
operations as we went through transitions. And, you know, as
Lauren Marquez:
all schools, do you lose people, you gain people. And things
Lauren Marquez:
start turning over. A lot of it started falling to me. And it
Lauren Marquez:
was like, oh, Lauren, can figure it out. Like, oh, okay, cool. I
Lauren Marquez:
can figure it out. Sure, absolutely, let's go. So it was
Lauren Marquez:
just sort of, I said yes a lot. And I think some colleagues
Lauren Marquez:
would tell me, I said yes too much. But it taught me a lot
Lauren Marquez:
about where strengths were, where I still had gaps, where I
Lauren Marquez:
thought I understood something, and then I would get into it
Lauren Marquez:
with whatever department it was, and was like, okay, missing this
Lauren Marquez:
whole big chunk here. So it just sort of became like putting
Lauren Marquez:
puzzle pieces together and figuring it out to get to that
Lauren Marquez:
whole picture.
Peter Frank:
Sure how. Hiram, is this sounding familiar?
Peter Frank:
Absolutely.
Hiram Cuevas:
I was actually picking up a piece of paper here
Hiram Cuevas:
that has Director of Information Technology defined a person who
Hiram Cuevas:
solves problems you can't followed by one who does
Hiram Cuevas:
precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by
Hiram Cuevas:
those of questionable knowledge. So that's a little fun one for
Hiram Cuevas:
all of us, sure.
Peter Frank:
Lots of smiling faces and nodding on the podcast
Peter Frank:
here. Okay, so we've reached that point in the journey. So
Peter Frank:
now we can talk a little bit about the tealist certification.
Peter Frank:
So the teal is divided into four domains, operations, Independent
Peter Frank:
School, governance and leadership, professional
Peter Frank:
development and technology for teaching and learning. And
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they're all represent different percentages as far as how much
Peter Frank:
is covered on the T list exam. So operations is about 32%
Peter Frank:
independent school governance and leadership is almost 40%
Peter Frank:
professional development is about 10% and then Technology
Peter Frank:
for Teaching and Learning is about 20% so when you hear those
Peter Frank:
percentages, when it comes to the certification, so two of you
Peter Frank:
had a lot of teaching Ed Tech in your backgrounds, and then John,
Peter Frank:
you came from the IT side. So it sounds like there's a whole lot
Peter Frank:
of T list that has to do with things other than educational
Peter Frank:
technology. So Lauren, looking at where you'd come from, you
Peter Frank:
just explained how you had to pick up a lot of non ed tech
Peter Frank:
related skills. When you looked at the four domains for the T
Peter Frank:
list, was there any particular domain that stood out that you
Peter Frank:
thought, Uh oh, that's going to be a thing.
Lauren Marquez:
I think some of the operations was probably
Lauren Marquez:
where I was maybe the most nervous, and then sat, you know,
Lauren Marquez:
worked through the workbook that was out with the questions, and
Lauren Marquez:
talked it out, and just sort of was like, No, I think actually
Lauren Marquez:
no more than I think I do. It kind of gave me a way to sort of
Lauren Marquez:
formalize what I had been doing that I didn't really realize I
Lauren Marquez:
had those skills already. So for me, it was, I think, a little
Lauren Marquez:
bit more. It validated what I was already doing, and kind of
Lauren Marquez:
helped give me the language of, no, you have been doing this.
Lauren Marquez:
You maybe didn't explicitly call it that, but you have been doing
Lauren Marquez:
this. So I went in nervous, and then as I was preparing, I was
Lauren Marquez:
like, well, actually, I think I have more than I thought I did.
Peter Frank:
Sure that's good. And so John, again, we talk
Peter Frank:
about when we set up the exam, and as we prepare people, it's
Peter Frank:
in the candidate handbook. You know, we talk about putting
Peter Frank:
yourself in that primary technology leader position, and
Peter Frank:
you're making a lot of strategic decisions. So it's no longer
Peter Frank:
just running from thing to thing to thing and fixing problems,
Peter Frank:
although it may still, to this day, may still be running from
Peter Frank:
thing to thing to thing and fixing problems, but again, more
Peter Frank:
of the strategy. So how was it for you, preparing for the exam,
Peter Frank:
earning the certification? Did it challenge you? Did it more
Peter Frank:
validate what you already knew, what you're already doing? Did
Peter Frank:
it give you a new framework, perhaps, of how you saw things?
Peter Frank:
How did it affect you in that way,
John Grube:
yeah, again, I would say validation was definitely
John Grube:
the big thing going through that those questions in that early
John Grube:
edition of the handouts going through those I think for me, it
John Grube:
was helpful to kind of get out of my head a little bit, because
John Grube:
I could have justified every answer if I sat there and
John Grube:
thought about it too long, you know, understanding you know you
John Grube:
want to pick the right answer in a lot of those scenarios I have
John Grube:
gone through to some extent, and by that time in my career,
John Grube:
whenever I took this a year and a half ago, so again, seeing how
John Grube:
my experiences helped prepare me for sitting for that exam was
John Grube:
very validating,
Peter Frank:
for sure. Tamara, anything for you that was
Peter Frank:
especially challenging again, like you've already explained
Peter Frank:
how you know you already had to do some of these other things
Peter Frank:
throughout your journey, maybe before you took the exam. But
Peter Frank:
was there anything for you that really stood out as especially
Peter Frank:
daunting?
Tomarra Londeree:
No, I think it would probably be like the
Tomarra Londeree:
operations and the governance, because, like, I said, like we
Tomarra Londeree:
are a big school, and so, like the board members aren't someone
Tomarra Londeree:
that I have meetings with, right? And so just kind of those
Tomarra Londeree:
things. It's like, I felt like I had a good grasp on how things
Tomarra Londeree:
were running in general at my school. But then it was thinking
Tomarra Londeree:
of, like, how would this be if I wasn't at my school? What does
Tomarra Londeree:
this look like in other independent schools? And so that
Tomarra Londeree:
was just kind of interesting of doing, you know, the study guide
Tomarra Londeree:
and reading through the scenarios. Because, like, John
Tomarra Londeree:
said, like, you can justify all of these different things. And
Tomarra Londeree:
so I think that was, but it was, it was just a validation of
Tomarra Londeree:
knowing that, okay, like, I actually am doing a lot of these
Tomarra Londeree:
things. Like one was like, onboarding and off boarding and
Tomarra Londeree:
that part, I'm like, Oh, I do all of that already in my role.
Tomarra Londeree:
And so it is. It's like, you look at these different domains
Tomarra Londeree:
and you're like, oh, no, I might just be an ed tech, and that's
Tomarra Londeree:
what I've done. But I'm actually a lot. Of our job leads into all
Tomarra Londeree:
the other domains, and there's no longer that imposter
Tomarra Londeree:
syndrome. I think that's some of it too. Is right? It's like,
Tomarra Londeree:
hey, like, do I actually know what I'm talking about? And
Tomarra Londeree:
then, you know, doing the test, like, when it was like, I
Tomarra Londeree:
passed, like, Oh, yes, I knew that. And it was just
Tomarra Londeree:
interesting when you see the results of how it's, you know
Tomarra Londeree:
what your percentages are. It was just interesting to see what
Tomarra Londeree:
you receive in each of those domains. Sure.
Peter Frank:
Real quick, I'll just explain. So at the end of
Peter Frank:
the exam, when you've taken the exam, you immediately see your
Peter Frank:
result and that's broken down. And then you get an email that
Peter Frank:
breaks down by the four domains, and it shows you the percentage
Peter Frank:
correct in each domain, so that way you get some sense of that.
Hiram Cuevas:
So I've heard from those that have gotten the T
Hiram Cuevas:
list certification that validation is so incredibly
Hiram Cuevas:
important and is very intrinsic to those that have taken the T
Hiram Cuevas:
list from an extrinsic perspective. How was your
Hiram Cuevas:
certification received by your respective schools?
John Grube:
Very positively, I would say that I have, I say,
John Grube:
recently, in the last few years, been part of the leadership team
John Grube:
where I wasn't before that. So that was also good to get that,
John Grube:
you know, having that experience prior to taking the test, but
John Grube:
seeing how they reacted to that meeting, especially being one of
John Grube:
the in that first cohort, was positive. And then, you know,
John Grube:
working with teachers, and so we have a tech committee that we've
John Grube:
kind of constituted over the last few years to help guide
John Grube:
through some major changes, for example, going from like Windows
John Grube:
to Mac computers and working through them gave me just a
John Grube:
little bit more confidence talking with them and guiding
John Grube:
them through this process of making these iterative
John Grube:
conversations before we landed on that ultimate goal that we
John Grube:
wanted to land.
Tomarra Londeree:
Hiram like you, Matt Scully does not have T
Tomarra Londeree:
list, so go t Paisley, so having that and Matt not having it, I
Tomarra Londeree:
have a feeling the both of you will start. You'll be taking
Tomarra Londeree:
this test in March.
Hiram Cuevas:
Oh, my look at that. The Gulla has been thrown.
Hiram Cuevas:
My goodness. Bold prediction, Stites must have paid her.
Peter Frank:
Lauren, how about you? What's the impact been?
Peter Frank:
Like?
Lauren Marquez:
It's been positively received. So we
Lauren Marquez:
joined ATLIS after I had gotten the Tila certification, and I
Lauren Marquez:
think having it allowed me to sort of show leadership like we
Lauren Marquez:
really do need to be a part of this organization, and this is
Lauren Marquez:
why, and I think once they kind of read into what it was, it
Lauren Marquez:
gave them more confidence in me as well. Of like, no, she
Lauren Marquez:
actually does know what she's talking about, and not just for
Lauren Marquez:
our ecosystem, but for, like, in the greater scheme of things.
Peter Frank:
So it's been good. Wow. So the tilis as a path to
Peter Frank:
Atlas membership, I had not even thought of that before. That's
Peter Frank:
really good. Yeah, that's great to know. I'm curious, how did
Peter Frank:
you let your school know?
Lauren Marquez:
I talked to my direct supervisor right
Lauren Marquez:
beforehand. It was like, Hey, I've been working on this, and
Lauren Marquez:
this is like professional development I've done, and I'm
Lauren Marquez:
going to sit for this, and hopefully I'll have your
Lauren Marquez:
blessing and we can talk about it, and then talk about joining
Lauren Marquez:
the organization. And I sat for it. I think maybe end of April
Lauren Marquez:
is when it's, like, coming to mind, because it was right
Lauren Marquez:
before, like, APS and the craziness of end of school year
Lauren Marquez:
for high schools and whatnot, right? And that year, we didn't
Lauren Marquez:
find out right away. We had to wait till, like, maybe June, I
Lauren Marquez:
feel like, is when I actually found out. Oh yeah, in the long
Lauren Marquez:
wait. So you're like, you get the immediate notification. I
Lauren Marquez:
was like, yep, nope. Didn't get that.
Hiram Cuevas:
What to get a letter in the mail?
Lauren Marquez:
No, I got an email. We had a window where we
Lauren Marquez:
were like, between like 30 and 45 days ish, we'll be able to
Lauren Marquez:
let you guys know. So it was a lot more. Felt more like, I
Lauren Marquez:
guess some of the girls that are at the school when they're
Lauren Marquez:
waiting for college acceptances, of like, Did I or didn't i
Lauren Marquez:
right? And then it came in over the summer, and I went and
Lauren Marquez:
chatted with them about it, and we talked about what it meant,
Lauren Marquez:
and other schools in the area who had had someone do it and
Lauren Marquez:
what that meant. And, yeah, it was just a lot of conversations.
Peter Frank:
Then, Oh, that's great. Tamara, what about like,
Peter Frank:
how did you let people know?
Tomarra Londeree:
Well, it's been a few weeks, so it hasn't
Tomarra Londeree:
that's true. I haven't told a lot of people yet, but my
Tomarra Londeree:
supervisor knows, and our head of Lower School and so I think
Tomarra Londeree:
Marcom will be our marketing and communications team might be
Tomarra Londeree:
doing a piece in the coming weeks, just letting people know,
Peter Frank:
yeah, and John, you've got the small schools, so
Peter Frank:
you don't have to tell many people before it Yes.
John Grube:
And I could probably shout it from one of the
John Grube:
rooftops and everybody would hear it, but yeah, I just told
John Grube:
my leadership team. And then, you know, I display it outside
John Grube:
my office, because it does start some coffee. Conversations nice,
John Grube:
especially with my tech team, because I'm working to get some
John Grube:
of them to sit for it and also do Ali, because I feel like the
John Grube:
two work in tandem. Whichever way you start with one or the
John Grube:
other one enriches the other. I feel that. And then, you know, I
John Grube:
posted it on LinkedIn. It made sure the letters are on my name
John Grube:
whenever I'm working with my virtual network.
Peter Frank:
This is great because I have not thought much
Peter Frank:
about after people get it and all these little things that
Peter Frank:
happen, like putting it outside your door, and the meetings with
Peter Frank:
the team and all those things. And that's wonderful. They don't
Peter Frank:
get to see all that, but that's so wonderful to
Lauren Marquez:
hear my school did do a social media post as
Lauren Marquez:
well. It was on LinkedIn. Like John said, Nice.
Hiram Cuevas:
Let's get those for the show notes. Yeah, send
Hiram Cuevas:
us the posts that your schools have done for you all, and we'll
Hiram Cuevas:
put them in the show notes. Yeah, John,
Peter Frank:
if you want to snug a picture of that outside your
Peter Frank:
office door, I'd love to just see it.
Tomarra Londeree:
Yeah, that's a great idea. I'm going to do that
Tomarra Londeree:
as well. I was just going to say too, like the T list also like
Tomarra Londeree:
helps. I'm currently not the director of the entire
Tomarra Londeree:
technology department, right? And so with that, I think that
Tomarra Londeree:
the T list now provides me like a conversation with, not
Tomarra Londeree:
necessarily other schools, but if something were to happen and
Tomarra Londeree:
a promotion is in the works. Like, I love my school. I like
Tomarra Londeree:
to be here. But if there's ever an opportunity where there is a
Tomarra Londeree:
director of technology position in another independent school, I
Tomarra Londeree:
feel like with the certification, it's very easy to
Tomarra Londeree:
put that on my resume and say, Yes, actually, like, while I
Tomarra Londeree:
currently am just, you know, Director of modern learning and
Tomarra Londeree:
have that Ed Tech role, but I am able to do all of the domains,
Tomarra Londeree:
as far as technology goes in independent schools. So I
Tomarra Londeree:
definitely think it could propel your career if you wanted it to
Peter Frank:
excellent. And that's part of the goal,
Hiram Cuevas:
Peter, I have a question for you. Uh oh, has
Hiram Cuevas:
anyone aced it?
Peter Frank:
There has been no perfect score. No,
Hiram Cuevas:
I think Matt Scully can bet it.
Tomarra Londeree:
We'll see. We'll see.
Peter Frank:
Yeah, there's been some really good scores. I find,
Peter Frank:
in some cases, I don't study them, and I rarely look the
Peter Frank:
scores are not made public. But the people who've done the best,
Peter Frank:
anecdotally, were the most nervous about doing. Well, I
Peter Frank:
don't know what that is, but they're nervous, and then they
Peter Frank:
take it, and then if I happen to see the score, I think, oh, wow,
Peter Frank:
they had no reason to be nervous. Or maybe that helped
Peter Frank:
them prepare. Maybe that's what led to the high score. I don't
Peter Frank:
know.
Hiram Cuevas:
I would think it's probably what was mentioned
Hiram Cuevas:
earlier. You know, that sense of being an imposter and humility,
Hiram Cuevas:
sure, being part of this growth process that tlis provides, and
Hiram Cuevas:
then all of a sudden, you know, they say being nervous is a good
Hiram Cuevas:
thing before competitions. So if you're not nervous, that's when
Hiram Cuevas:
you got to worry. You're overly confident, right? You got a good
Hiram Cuevas:
thing going there. Mr.
Peter Frank:
Frank, thank you, Hiram. I'm proud of it, and
Peter Frank:
there's been a lot of help from Atlas staff, and Christina and
Peter Frank:
ATLIS is proud of it, for sure.
Hiram Cuevas:
I'm just glad you left bill out of that one.
Tomarra Londeree:
I will say, though, with the scores, I
Tomarra Londeree:
realized that I maybe this is just like the teacher, like when
Tomarra Londeree:
you get the percentages back, like, I just wanted to know,
Tomarra Londeree:
like, what I didn't get correct, right? Like, I understand that
Tomarra Londeree:
we can't give the questions and answers, but it was just like
Tomarra Londeree:
for me professionally, I wanted to know, like, where did I go
Tomarra Londeree:
wrong, and how can I get better? Because I know that once I knew
Tomarra Londeree:
you know what the answer was, like, I will carry that on with
Tomarra Londeree:
me and my career. I feel like we all in our roles want to get
Tomarra Londeree:
better at our job. So it was just one of those, like, Huh? I
Tomarra Londeree:
wonder what I didn't get correct. But then you look on
Tomarra Londeree:
the flip side, I'm like, Okay, I got a lot of things correct, so
Tomarra Londeree:
I'm doing okay again. Go back to that validation piece, right?
Peter Frank:
The percentages should help. And it's the spirit
Peter Frank:
of the certification to continue having it is to continue doing
Peter Frank:
your professional development. So if you're allowing the
Peter Frank:
percentages to be your guide, and you focus your professional
Peter Frank:
development that way, then the odds are pretty good you're
Peter Frank:
going to come across whatever the question was that you may
Peter Frank:
have gotten wrong. If you're going to continue learning, then
Peter Frank:
that should take care of itself. I think might be the idea there.
Hiram Cuevas:
And for the three of you, is this an adaptive
Hiram Cuevas:
test? So it gets harder depending on how you answer, or
Hiram Cuevas:
easier depending on how you answer?
John Grube:
I mean, I don't think so. I feel like the
John Grube:
questions, as you went through them, were rewarded again, but
John Grube:
in a different context, so you were kind of answering a
John Grube:
previous question, but again, just slightly different. Kind of
John Grube:
reminded me of some college classes where it was like, it's
John Grube:
a B, or is it D, kind of like a, but a little bit like C. So that
John Grube:
made you ponder and think a little bit or a lot, and so, you
John Grube:
know, sometimes I would skip it and keep. Going and then go back
John Grube:
and give more time to that. But I don't think it like got harder
John Grube:
per se throughout the test the first cohort, you know, we had
John Grube:
120 we had that extra 20 Questions. It's still 120
Peter Frank:
Yeah, it's still 120 now. But Hiram, that's a
Peter Frank:
good idea, so maybe we'll make that before you take it,
Lauren Marquez:
just for you. Oh, glad I got it.
Hiram Cuevas:
Yeah, that'll prevent Matt from getting that
Hiram Cuevas:
perfect score.
Tomarra Londeree:
Yeah, from you and Matt, we can make it
Tomarra Londeree:
adaptive.
Hiram Cuevas:
If I'm not mistaken, I think Vinnie Vrotny
Hiram Cuevas:
hasn't taken it either,
Tomarra Londeree:
no, because he was so I will talk about the T
Tomarra Londeree:
list prep. I did that the T list prep program. And I will say
Tomarra Londeree:
that if anybody asked me about T list like, I will highly
Tomarra Londeree:
recommend that, because I felt like, you know, we met for four
Tomarra Londeree:
weeks, for an hour and a half, and you learn about each of the
Tomarra Londeree:
domains, but then you also break out into sessions. And so one, I
Tomarra Londeree:
love that, because I felt like I was now networking with a group
Tomarra Londeree:
of technology directors from across the country, and now I
Tomarra Londeree:
have this new network of people. But also it allowed us to read
Tomarra Londeree:
the scenarios. You read the three choices, and then we had
Tomarra Londeree:
conversations about, which one would we pick, and which one
Tomarra Londeree:
will we not? And so it just offered a lot of conversations
Tomarra Londeree:
about what we would do, and it was really great at saying,
Tomarra Londeree:
Okay, well, the question actually says, What will you do
Tomarra Londeree:
first? And so really reading those questions and
Tomarra Londeree:
understanding, but it opened up great discussion, which I
Tomarra Londeree:
appreciated, because we are going to do things a little bit
Tomarra Londeree:
different in our schools, but just hearing everybody else and
Tomarra Londeree:
their thought process and how they go about it, and then
Tomarra Londeree:
really at the end, you come up with the one answer that
Tomarra Londeree:
everybody can kind of agree on, but some conversations like they
Tomarra Londeree:
were not going to agree, but I will say, like that was really
Tomarra Londeree:
beneficial for me, and in that gave me the confidence to go
Tomarra Londeree:
ahead, because I was trying to decide if I should do it in
Tomarra Londeree:
November or March, just waiting. And I was like, You know what? I
Tomarra Londeree:
feel like this has prepared me, and I feel like having those
Tomarra Londeree:
conversations really helped me say, okay, I can do this. I feel
Tomarra Londeree:
strong that I can get the certification that's
Peter Frank:
good to hear, and that is the feedback that we've
Peter Frank:
been getting from that the teal is prep program that ATLIS
Peter Frank:
produces. It's not a requirement to earn the certification
Peter Frank:
whatsoever. But we have gotten some positive feedback along
Peter Frank:
those lines. Lauren and John are like, Yeah, that's great. I
Peter Frank:
don't know what you're talking about, because we
Lauren Marquez:
did not have that. We did not have that. No,
Lauren Marquez:
we had this question booklets,
Hiram Cuevas:
baptism by fire. Yeah,
Lauren Marquez:
it's like 11 questions. Yeah,
Tomarra Londeree:
I did those too, but the new prep program, I
Tomarra Londeree:
think, was really helpful, and Vinnie was in that Hiram, so
Tomarra Londeree:
maybe he's on his way to taking it. I would
John Grube:
say, I use those questions in that packets, those
John Grube:
10 or 11, and I would have ice breakers. We got tech team with
John Grube:
them, because it would then give me an idea of seeing how they
John Grube:
were thinking through it and if it correlated with me or not.
John Grube:
You know, I reached out to some people to find some things on my
John Grube:
own, but I do know that. So this is 25 is year one. So two more
John Grube:
years I will need to recertify, and so maybe that's when we get
John Grube:
the adaptive version of it, or something.
Peter Frank:
You don't have to take the exam again to be clear,
Peter Frank:
to recertify. You just need to demonstrate the 30 hours of
Peter Frank:
continuous Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you don't have to take the exam
Peter Frank:
again unless you let it lapse. So don't let it lapse, because
Peter Frank:
Hiram just made the exam way harder by turning in the
Peter Frank:
adaptive
John Grube:
AI Adaptive Test.
Tomarra Londeree:
I will say I did use AI to study too. Like I
Tomarra Londeree:
put in some nice questions. And now, you know, I took some of
Tomarra Londeree:
the study guide and and just said, like, Hey, can you build
Tomarra Londeree:
me? You know, like a little quiz on these. And then some were
Tomarra Londeree:
very specific, and I'm like, Okay, I need it not to be so
Tomarra Londeree:
clear, you know? And so I probably did 10 of those. And
Tomarra Londeree:
that's a great idea, John, I love that you do that in your
Tomarra Londeree:
tech meetings. Of starting that, so I'm going to steal that and
Tomarra Londeree:
just do it with our tech team of just like, hey, this scenario,
Tomarra Londeree:
what would you do? Because I think that's a great
Tomarra Londeree:
conversation starter. I love that idea.
Lauren Marquez:
I used chat GPT when I was studying. I would put
Lauren Marquez:
in some of those questions and be like, let's have a
Lauren Marquez:
conversation. And I would argue with it back and forth as sort
Lauren Marquez:
of my prep. Since we didn't have a T list prep for that one, I'm
Lauren Marquez:
also trying to think, I don't think we got an email telling us
Lauren Marquez:
our breakdown in the different areas.
John Grube:
I was gonna say that out loud too, but, you know, I
Lauren Marquez:
was like, I gotta, have to go back and look
Lauren Marquez:
for this email now. But I feel like it was just you passed or
Lauren Marquez:
you did it.
Tomarra Londeree:
That was it. Please, don't feel very young in
Tomarra Londeree:
this moment.
Lauren Marquez:
So I'm not imagining that. Good job. I'm so
Lauren Marquez:
glad I.
Peter Frank:
Yeah, I don't know about the percentages, because I
Peter Frank:
think we relied on the system to produce percentages, and since
Peter Frank:
the system didn't display your grades, your scores right away,
Peter Frank:
yeah, it was all new. But, man, without the first group, the
Peter Frank:
first group was critical. Lauren, I'm trying to think,
Peter Frank:
like, I mean, that was early for chat GPT,
Lauren Marquez:
yeah, I was an early adopter of that.
Peter Frank:
I don't think the other AI's even existed yet it
Peter Frank:
wasn't
Lauren Marquez:
nearly as strong as it is now. But, I mean, at
Lauren Marquez:
least could, like, sit and argue with someone.
Hiram Cuevas:
Yeah, it can help. So when you mentioned arguing,
Hiram Cuevas:
it's interesting because the fact that there is no item
Hiram Cuevas:
analysis that is available to the test takers from the test
Hiram Cuevas:
developers. Is it consensus that has to be reached for the
Hiram Cuevas:
correct answer, especially if there seems to be some
Hiram Cuevas:
variability in what the correct answer should be, or is the
Hiram Cuevas:
distractor made in a way so that actually puts more weight in one
Hiram Cuevas:
direction versus another? I love test validation. That's why I
Hiram Cuevas:
asked the question. Certainly.
Peter Frank:
Well, I heard a couple different things. I'm
Peter Frank:
thinking the subject matter experts that we bring together.
Peter Frank:
We have a fantastic group of subject matter experts, a very
Peter Frank:
diverse group, many different backgrounds, different stages of
Peter Frank:
their career. But as they're developing items, there's a lot
Peter Frank:
of conversation, and many people see the items and the
Peter Frank:
distractors before they're even close to being piloted. So I
Peter Frank:
guess it's consensus, in a way, they have fantastic
Peter Frank:
conversations. I learned a ton just being a fly on the wall for
Peter Frank:
all those Yeah,
Hiram Cuevas:
because I could only imagine having worked with
Hiram Cuevas:
Shandor many, many times, just engaging in conversations with
Hiram Cuevas:
him about a specific question could take quite some time.
Peter Frank:
Sure, yeah, sometimes it's longer than
Peter Frank:
others, but everybody brings so much to the table, so that's
Peter Frank:
really good.
Hiram Cuevas:
Absolutely, is the correct answer? Does it have to
Hiram Cuevas:
be unanimous?
Peter Frank:
Essentially, it does not have to be unanimous.
Peter Frank:
Every once in a while somebody it's rare, but every once in a
Peter Frank:
while, someone walks away, shaking their head, but that's
Peter Frank:
very rare. That's almost always, by the end of the conversation,
Peter Frank:
they're all in agreement, depending on the group. Yeah,
Peter Frank:
it's a lot of fun developing the items.
Hiram Cuevas:
It just shows you the diversity of the schools
Hiram Cuevas:
that are out there too and the experiences, right?
Peter Frank:
So along those lines, I was thinking, so John,
Peter Frank:
a school with around 300 students enrolled, so the
Peter Frank:
handbook talks about, when you're taking the exam, you have
Peter Frank:
to put yourself in a mind space of it's a larger schools, about
Peter Frank:
1000 students enrolled, and you've got five to 10 people on
Peter Frank:
your team, and there's a certain lens that you have to look
Peter Frank:
through for the exam. How was that for you? Did that ever come
Peter Frank:
up as you were taking the exam? Do you remember when you had to
Peter Frank:
kind of catch yourself and say, oh, right, I've got a big staff,
Peter Frank:
or maybe not big, but I've got plenty of people on staff, or
Peter Frank:
way more students. Or did that become a thing? Was it tough to
Peter Frank:
get into the lens of the certification?
John Grube:
You know, not so much per se. You know, practice
John Grube:
Knowing that ahead of time. You know, I reached out to some
John Grube:
colleagues. I got a really good colleague over at one of the
John Grube:
schools that was in my Ali class, and he's over a K 12 and
John Grube:
so just, you know, bouncing some things off of him before the
John Grube:
test. Or again, Vinnie, Vinnie Ronnie is in my backyard and
John Grube:
talking to him over my time here, since he's been at
John Grube:
Kinkade, was helpful to kind of glean some things from his
John Grube:
experiences. But yeah, there were some scenarios where, okay,
John Grube:
that would never happen because we have the kids that we have,
John Grube:
but I do remember some scenarios because my previous school was a
John Grube:
K through eight, so we're calling some things for that
Peter Frank:
Sure, and Lauren and Tamara. Your schools are
Peter Frank:
more similarly sized to the lens, the T list lens, but was
Peter Frank:
there anything about the lens that that was different for you
Peter Frank:
or that made you think twice?
Lauren Marquez:
Well, my school's actually about 300 Wow,
Lauren Marquez:
just high school and all girls. But I worked in public school
Lauren Marquez:
before I joined independent schools, and had done some work,
Lauren Marquez:
like with district, with technology, so had a little bit
Lauren Marquez:
of knowledge coming from that in order to help me get into that
Lauren Marquez:
lens. And then I just sort of thought, God, how great would it
Lauren Marquez:
be if I had other people who could help me with this Cole let
Lauren Marquez:
me just think about how I would delegate. Then how
Tomarra Londeree:
about you tomorrow? Yeah, I think mine's
Tomarra Londeree:
the opposite, because we have double the amount of students.
Tomarra Londeree:
And so it was hard, because sometimes I feel like there's
Tomarra Londeree:
conversations that need to be had in different scenarios
Tomarra Londeree:
where, like, we don't really get that opportunity because it is
Tomarra Londeree:
so big and so vast. And so I think sometimes I was having to,
Tomarra Londeree:
you know, I think it's more of just like thinking I know how my
Tomarra Londeree:
school works. I know who to go to or where to go, but other
Tomarra Londeree:
schools might not do that. I think the budget is one that I
Tomarra Londeree:
think always gets me because, like I said earlier, like ours
Tomarra Londeree:
is already set. And so those aren't necessarily some
Tomarra Londeree:
conversations that I'm part of. And so I think that was some of
Tomarra Londeree:
the questions trying to think of, like, who. Were the
Tomarra Londeree:
stakeholders, and what specific people would you go to that was
Tomarra Londeree:
a little bit different of trying to, like, Okay, this is about,
Tomarra Londeree:
you know, a general school, not necessarily mine. So some of
Tomarra Londeree:
that was just taking a step back of like, I know this is how
Tomarra Londeree:
Providence day would do it, but how would other schools handle
Tomarra Londeree:
this situation? So it was more of that of just stepping back a
Tomarra Londeree:
little bit and not getting like so deep in the question of what,
Tomarra Londeree:
just in general, what would be the best
Hiram Cuevas:
practice for that? Sure, there's your adaptive
Hiram Cuevas:
Peter. They plug in their school size
Peter Frank:
that happens on both sides. As I said, Listen to
Peter Frank:
our subject matter experts write items that comes up all the time
Peter Frank:
when they're discussing, like, which answer is correct, or, or
Peter Frank:
about the distractors, they'll often say, Well, this is how it
Peter Frank:
is at my school, but they know it's not like that at someone
Peter Frank:
else's school. Or, oh, that's different, and that helps them.
Peter Frank:
I want to, I mean, the lens helps them to, like, they turn
Peter Frank:
to the lens all the time say, remember, we have to do this to
Peter Frank:
just make it same for everybody, at least for the exams.
John Grube:
And I think that that gives what is unique about
John Grube:
this certification, because when people see it, and if they dive
John Grube:
into it, a little bit more note knowing you've kind of right
John Grube:
size that for everybody, as I think tomorrow, was saying, if
John Grube:
you're going to use this to grow in your career, you can show
John Grube:
like I understand what it's going to be like for a small
John Grube:
school, a larger school, medium sized school, and I think that's
John Grube:
what's powerful about this
Peter Frank:
excellent so as we wrap up here, I'm going to ask
Peter Frank:
each of you if you had a single piece of advice, if someone
Peter Frank:
approached you, they're thinking about taking the T list, or they
Peter Frank:
decided to try and earn the T list. What comes to your mind?
Peter Frank:
What's one piece of advice, John, that you would give
Peter Frank:
somebody,
John Grube:
you know, hearing our guests talk about their
John Grube:
background, you know, I think if you don't, maybe have that
John Grube:
operational side, or you don't have the academic side, I did
John Grube:
find going through Ali first, and I don't think you have to,
John Grube:
was very helpful to get that other side that maybe you have
John Grube:
not had, and you're building that network of people that you
John Grube:
can bounce things off of that way, going into it, I think, is
John Grube:
going to enhance your experience, either going through
John Grube:
the course guide or jumping right into it.
Peter Frank:
And what we've been saying of late is the tail of
Peter Frank:
this is more of it's a practitioner's exam, and it's
Peter Frank:
really measuring where you are. So as far as studying for
Peter Frank:
preparing for it, well, it's all rooted in your experience and
Peter Frank:
like the professional development you've had. So
Peter Frank:
there's no like one to one studying, there's no list you
Peter Frank:
need to memorize or anything like that. It's all about what
Peter Frank:
you've experienced. So we often tell people, if you're just
Peter Frank:
getting started the ATLIS Leadership Institute. We've been
Peter Frank:
saying Ali this whole episode, that's a great place to learn.
Peter Frank:
That's a year long program where you're learning how so perhaps,
Peter Frank:
if you're new enough, go through that and then experience that
Peter Frank:
and go for maybe another year, two, three, however long it
Peter Frank:
takes to gain your experience, and then see if you're ready for
Peter Frank:
the T list. Some people go to Ali and they're already mid
Peter Frank:
career or whatnot, so they could perhaps do that and then quickly
Peter Frank:
turn to the T list. But that's typically how we frame those two
Peter Frank:
programs.
Hiram Cuevas:
Hiram Peter, what I love about the ALI approach is
Hiram Cuevas:
having been a mentor for several folks that participated in the
Hiram Cuevas:
program. It gets you out of your tech department or that little
Hiram Cuevas:
area that you're focused on, and it forces you to grow
Hiram Cuevas:
relationships outside with the broader community. And in many
Hiram Cuevas:
instances, folks are challenged by having those kinds of
Hiram Cuevas:
conversations with the CFO, with the director of advancement
Hiram Cuevas:
comms and Head of School, this is a really great opportunity to
Hiram Cuevas:
hone in on relationships that need to be cultivated and grown
Hiram Cuevas:
over time, so that they can see what your capacity is at Your
Hiram Cuevas:
school, and then it's also an opportunity to do some public
Hiram Cuevas:
speaking with the faculty and staff at large. And that's what
Hiram Cuevas:
I always encourage the folks that I worked with in the ALI
Hiram Cuevas:
program can't speak enough about I think it's a fantastic
Hiram Cuevas:
program.
Tomarra Londeree:
Yeah, I would agree to I did Ali last year,
Tomarra Londeree:
and so that was kind of my goal was like, as I'm growing in this
Tomarra Londeree:
leadership position, like, I want to learn more. And so I did
Tomarra Londeree:
Ali, and then that was my goal last year. And so this year was
Tomarra Londeree:
like, Okay, well, that transitions nicely to the Tila
Tomarra Londeree:
certification, but I agree, like, we have a really strong
Tomarra Londeree:
technology department here, and Ed Tech and it are very much
Tomarra Londeree:
integrated. But then going to Ali, I realized, like, that's
Tomarra Londeree:
not everyone else's experience. And so it's a great mix of Ed
Tomarra Londeree:
Tech and IT people. And I just felt like I learned so much, and
Tomarra Londeree:
still to this day, have my cohort. We had a great time at
Tomarra Londeree:
ATLIS last year. That's been great. And so I would say, like,
Tomarra Londeree:
moving forward, I felt confident doing the T. List because of
Tomarra Londeree:
those experiences. But also another thing, like I said
Tomarra Londeree:
earlier, I think the T list prep program, if anybody were to say,
Tomarra Londeree:
what do you think I would say, do that, because I feel like you
Tomarra Londeree:
do have the skills. But just talking again, that networking
Tomarra Londeree:
piece of talking to other Java like people and people that
Tomarra Londeree:
aren't job like IT directors, you know, because in that
Tomarra Londeree:
moment, like the IT person can help me understand, well, what
Tomarra Londeree:
this about cybersecurity that I didn't think about, or data
Tomarra Londeree:
retention and things like that. Or I could also help an IT
Tomarra Londeree:
person talk about the professional development side
Tomarra Londeree:
and, well, actually you need to do a needs assessment before you
Tomarra Londeree:
do that, and see who your stakeholders are. So I would say
Tomarra Londeree:
that I would do the T list the PREP program moving forward was
Tomarra Londeree:
very helpful, excellent.
Peter Frank:
Lauren, how about you? What's one thing you would
Peter Frank:
tell people, if they started talking about the T list?
Lauren Marquez:
I would tell them, especially since my school
Lauren Marquez:
was not part of ATLIS before I got my certification. So Ali,
Lauren Marquez:
sounds great. It feels like something that could have been
Lauren Marquez:
really helpful. And obviously the T list prep wasn't there
Lauren Marquez:
when I did it. But if you're at a smaller school, or school who
Lauren Marquez:
is maybe hasn't joined ATLIS yet, but you're looking at the
Lauren Marquez:
certification, staying curious and moving out of your lane, I
Lauren Marquez:
think that's how I learned. A lot of it was very much stepping
Lauren Marquez:
out of my lane and going and having conversations with people
Lauren Marquez:
around the school when I saw that there was something that
Lauren Marquez:
needed. I don't know if fixing is the right word, but I needed
Lauren Marquez:
to problem solve, some solution that was going to help either
Lauren Marquez:
teachers or students or parents. So just staying curious and not
Lauren Marquez:
clinging to well, this is where I'm supposed to be and not being
Lauren Marquez:
afraid to just have those conversations.
Peter Frank:
Sage advice. Yeah, that's great advice. Great
Peter Frank:
advice to leave on thank you all so much for this conversation.
Peter Frank:
We appreciate it. Lauren Tamara and John, we will put some
Peter Frank:
things in the show notes for this episode. There's some good
Peter Frank:
nuggets that we've dropped, Hiram. I don't know if you're
Peter Frank:
convinced yet at this point or not, if you still need more
Peter Frank:
convincing. I mean, you made the exam way harder. So I don't know
Peter Frank:
about that, and I'm just kidding. This is true. We're not
Peter Frank:
making the exam harder because of Hiram.
Hiram Cuevas:
I will discuss with Mr. Scully and see if we
Hiram Cuevas:
can avoid the molasses swamp.
Peter Frank:
We will be back again one more week this year.
Peter Frank:
The 100th episode of talking technology with ATLIS is coming
Peter Frank:
up, so be sure to stay tuned for that before we are done for the
Peter Frank:
holidays. Thanks everybody. This has been talking technology with
Peter Frank:
ATLIS produced by the Association of technology
Peter Frank:
leaders in independent schools. For more information about Atlas
Peter Frank:
and Atlas membership, please visit the atlas.org if you
Peter Frank:
enjoyed this discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and
Peter Frank:
share this podcast with your colleagues in the independent
Peter Frank:
school community. Thank you for listening. You you.
