Mission-Driven, Data-Informed Leadership with Ari Betof
Presented by:
Ari Betof, co-founder of Mission and Data, joins the podcast to discuss the critical importance of making mission-driven, data-informed decisions. He explores the common challenges schools face with data governance and system migrations, emphasizing the need for longitudinal consistency and strong leadership partnerships to turn raw data into a compelling strategic story.
- Mission & Data, dedicated to the effectiveness, health, and vitality of educational institutions and other organizations
- EMA’s Impossible Questions Podcast, from the Enrollment Management Association
- EMA’s Enrollment Spectrum Podcast, exploring the central tenets of enrollment management strategy, focusing on components embodying the spectrum
- Articles by Ari Betof on Medium.com
- Stevenson School, independent Pre-K–12 boarding and day school located on California's Monterey Peninsula
- Center for Institutional Research in Independent Schools (CIRIS), supporting the work of institutional research practitioners as they help schools collect, analyze, and operationalize data in support of their mission
Transcript
Narrator:
Dan, welcome to Talking technology with ATLIS,
Narrator:
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
Narrator:
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Narrator:
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
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special guests from the Independent School community,
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and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Narrator:
And now please welcome your host, Christina Lewellen,
Christina Lewellen:
hello and welcome back to talking
Christina Lewellen:
technology with ATLIS. This is Christina Lewellen, the
Christina Lewellen:
President and CEO of the Association of technology
Christina Lewellen:
leaders in independent schools.
Bill Stites:
I'm Bill Stites, the Director of Technology at
Bill Stites:
Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New Jersey,
Hiram Cuevas:
and I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of
Hiram Cuevas:
Information Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher's
Hiram Cuevas:
school in Richmond, Virginia.
Christina Lewellen:
Hello, gentlemen. How's everything
Christina Lewellen:
today? Day one with
Bill Stites:
kids? Ah, how's it going, sir, I've got a pounding
Bill Stites:
headache. Been here since 615 but you know, it's all it should
Hiram Cuevas:
be time for the
Christina Lewellen:
Excedrin. Come on. But the energy has got
Christina Lewellen:
to be super fun, right?
Bill Stites:
It's always nice having the footsteps back in the
Bill Stites:
building for sure, 100%
Christina Lewellen:
that's why we're here. Yeah, it definitely
Christina Lewellen:
feels like fall in the air. Hiram, where are you at in your
Christina Lewellen:
schedule?
Hiram Cuevas:
So we are starting week two. That's a shorter week
Hiram Cuevas:
because we all had labor day off. But regrettably, we opened
Hiram Cuevas:
up today after an email that went out from the head of school
Hiram Cuevas:
that one of our sprinkler heads in our dining hall went off and
Hiram Cuevas:
saturated all of our wood tables and chairs and projectors and
Hiram Cuevas:
screens. We've got all that fun stuff, so we're eating al fresca
Christina Lewellen:
today. Oh well, it's a beautiful day for
Christina Lewellen:
it in the state of Virginia, so you just let the boys out in the
Christina Lewellen:
yard like prison. They're eating lunch outside.
Hiram Cuevas:
Absolutely we'll throw a couple of extra toys out
Hiram Cuevas:
there.
Christina Lewellen:
But I love it. Well, I'll tell you what you
Christina Lewellen:
guys this energy is infectious. Obviously, ATLIS staff, we don't
Christina Lewellen:
work at a school. We have kids who go to college and school and
Christina Lewellen:
all that fun stuff, but the energy is high, and I will say I
Christina Lewellen:
have a fun story to share with our audience. We got an email
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from one of our fellow board members out on the West Coast,
Christina Lewellen:
Muhammad Ramadan, from the Charles Wright Academy, and he
Christina Lewellen:
shared with us this super cool AI storybook vibe thing that he
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did for training for his faculty, where he took, kind of
Christina Lewellen:
his tech reminders, start of school year reminders. And it
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has like this British accent, you know, Harry Potter style, as
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if the narrator is reading to the audience. It's like a 10
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minute video. It captures everything that Muhammad wanted
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his faculty to be reminded of with these cool like animations
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and AI generated images. I thought it was fascinating and
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super cute. And it also had a little bridgerton kind of vibe,
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because it kept saying, Dear gentle reader. And I just loved
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it. So even though I'm not at a school, I'm still getting, like
Christina Lewellen:
residual, secondhand start of school vibes from you guys. You
Christina Lewellen:
know, before we start with our guest today, I was curious, how
Christina Lewellen:
did the back to school faculty stuff go? Did you also do AI
Christina Lewellen:
generated like zombie videos, or Star Trek videos, anything like
Christina Lewellen:
that? A la Muhammad,
Hiram Cuevas:
we drew a line in the sand with copyright here,
Hiram Cuevas:
and we had sexy copyright, and then we went right into cyber,
Hiram Cuevas:
and we went into sultry cyber, is the way it was described. And
Hiram Cuevas:
we got the attention of our faculty and staff with those
Hiram Cuevas:
various adjectives that we utilized and got their
Hiram Cuevas:
attention. And so it was a lot of
Christina Lewellen:
fun. Did you get called into HR for the
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training? Dude? Like, come on. So we're
Hiram Cuevas:
trying to figure out what the next term will be
Hiram Cuevas:
that is used for all school faculty. PD, we
Bill Stites:
started with what is one of my favorite four
Bill Stites:
letter topics when it comes to independent schools and schools
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in general, is calendars. We addressed the calendar conundrum
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that we have that has been ongoing with three different
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campuses, with multiple calendars. We think we finally
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got around to the point where we have calendars where we don't
Bill Stites:
have duplicates, where we don't have people asking, Why am I not
Bill Stites:
seeing this on my calendar? Why is this on your calendar? What's
Bill Stites:
going on with that calendar? It was a process that started for
Bill Stites:
us in late May, early June, and is kind of just wrapped but it
Bill Stites:
is one that I think we're in a much better place. So nothing
Bill Stites:
sexy, but hopefully, fingers crossed, we have put this
Bill Stites:
problem to rest. And I'm just knocking on wood so that I'm not
Bill Stites:
going to be caught off guard by that, and then I have to come
Bill Stites:
back and bite me.
Hiram Cuevas:
Calendaring is one of those endeavors that will
Hiram Cuevas:
certainly put an organization to task. I mean, it is one of the
Hiram Cuevas:
most complicated things, and everybody thinks they have their
Hiram Cuevas:
solution, and everybody's only thinking about their piece. And
Hiram Cuevas:
God bless you guys at MKA for going through that exercise.
Bill Stites:
I feel blog posts coming on. That's what I'll
Bill Stites:
probably do with it in terms of how we solved it that,
Hiram Cuevas:
or holy water. Yeah,
Christina Lewellen:
exactly. You don't need therapy. You just you
Christina Lewellen:
go and you blog your way out of these traumatic situations. I
Christina Lewellen:
feel for you, because this is one of those examples where I
Christina Lewellen:
don't think about it, enterprise wide, calendaring, I don't have
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to think about that because we set our system and we move on.
Christina Lewellen:
About the worst I have to deal with is when board members don't
Christina Lewellen:
know when meetings are. That's the extent of my headache. Okay,
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so that is why I'm glad to have second hand vibes on start of
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school rather than firsthand. 100% Well, I'm really excited
Christina Lewellen:
you guys. Today we have a guest that we've been trying to get
Christina Lewellen:
with for some time. And finally, the travel has kind of lined up.
Christina Lewellen:
The schedule has kind of lined up. Today, we welcome to the
Christina Lewellen:
podcast. Ari Brett, off from mission in data. Ari, you are
Christina Lewellen:
with us, but you are joining us from the Stevenson schools
Christina Lewellen:
podcast studio.
Ari Betof:
Yes, I am joining you from Stevenson school at the
Ari Betof:
radio station. K, s, p, b, petell Beach, 91.9k s, u, r, big
Ari Betof:
Sir, 90.1 I'm loving this. And there's a little note on the
Ari Betof:
wall here that says legal. Id say both. So I have said both.
Christina Lewellen:
Good job. You've done great. You've paid
Christina Lewellen:
your proverbial rent. We're so glad to have you join us. You
Christina Lewellen:
are on the road. What's shaking over at the Stevenson school?
Christina Lewellen:
Why are you on the west coast this week?
Ari Betof:
Stevenson is a wonderful boarding and day
Ari Betof:
school here in peteville beach, pre K 12 school, and I'm doing a
Ari Betof:
California swing. I'm here. I'm heading up to Sanford University
Ari Betof:
tomorrow, and then heading down to LA and Santa Monica on Friday
Ari Betof:
and Saturday. So really excited to be visiting our friends and
Ari Betof:
colleagues and clients out here on the West Coast.
Christina Lewellen:
All right, well, give Allie a hug for us,
Christina Lewellen:
and please tell those folks at Stevenson how much we appreciate
Christina Lewellen:
that you were able to pop into their studio very early on the
Christina Lewellen:
west coast to join us for this conversation. We appreciate
Christina Lewellen:
them.
Ari Betof:
We appreciate them too, and big thanks to our
Ari Betof:
friends at Stevenson. Argano, I've
Bill Stites:
got one question for you, Christina, I told you I
Bill Stites:
was going to do this to him right when we got on with him.
Bill Stites:
Here we go. You were obligated to say all that about the radio
Bill Stites:
station. I've got something I need to say to you, and I need
Bill Stites:
to see if you are understanding your obligation when I say this
Bill Stites:
to you,
Ari Betof:
the answer to every question you realize bill is go
Ari Betof:
birds. Go birds, baby, go birds. Sorry, had to do it. I'm not
Ari Betof:
even sure what the question is yet, but no, that was
Bill Stites:
it. It was just go birds. I just needed to make
Bill Stites:
sure the call response was there, go birds. Go birds.
Hiram Cuevas:
There you go. Christina, it doesn't stop. It
Hiram Cuevas:
doesn't stop.
Ari Betof:
Thursday, the banner goes up. I do have two hats with
Ari Betof:
me. Oh, my Philly's hat, which those of you listening on the
Ari Betof:
podcast are not going to see. I also have with me my Super Bowl
Ari Betof:
champion Philadelphia Eagles hat in honor of Thursday night's
Ari Betof:
game against that other team in Arlington, Texas, the team that
Ari Betof:
shall not be named Exactly.
Christina Lewellen:
This is exciting. Ari, I went to a
Christina Lewellen:
Phillies game over the summer. And, yeah, you people are crazy.
Christina Lewellen:
We had to talk about it on the pod the following week because I
Christina Lewellen:
was like, Bill, what is happening? I actually think that
Christina Lewellen:
I'm going to a wedding now from a complete stranger. And he was
Christina Lewellen:
eating the end of my fries like this is how the Phillies game
Christina Lewellen:
went for me. That's why they greased the poles.
Hiram Cuevas:
Grease the lampposts.
Ari Betof:
Christina, are you suggesting that in some ways,
Ari Betof:
not normal by the way, Christina, you and I have been
Ari Betof:
to a baseball a Major League Baseball game we did together
Ari Betof:
with Damian Kavanaugh,
Christina Lewellen:
which is always a good time, because he
Christina Lewellen:
is a crazy baseball fan. Yes, yeah, that was fun.
Ari Betof:
Do you remember what city we were in when we did
Ari Betof:
that? Were we on
Christina Lewellen:
the West Coast? It was an Atlanta Braves
Christina Lewellen:
game. But were we in Seattle?
Ari Betof:
I believe we were in Seattle. Yes. Yay.
Bill Stites:
Nice. Great stadium,
Ari Betof:
great stadium, great stadium.
Christina Lewellen:
So Ari, clearly, we know you. We have a
Christina Lewellen:
lot of history and great memories with each other. But
Christina Lewellen:
let's get everybody up to speed. Let's start with your
Christina Lewellen:
background. So you are the co founder and partner at Mission
Christina Lewellen:
and data. And mission and data is a very quickly growing
Christina Lewellen:
organization, company in our space supporting independent
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schools. So I want to talk about mission and data and kind of
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where you guys started and you've become sort of
Christina Lewellen:
synonymous, I think, with schools trying to dig deeper
Christina Lewellen:
into their data and do productive things with it.
Christina Lewellen:
Before we get to mission and data, though, I'd love to know
Christina Lewellen:
just a little bit about your background. For people who don't
Christina Lewellen:
know you pre mission in data, tell us a little bit about your
Christina Lewellen:
experience in the Independent School world.
Ari Betof:
I'm an alumnus of George school in Newtown,
Ari Betof:
Pennsylvania, which is a school that absolutely changed my life
Ari Betof:
as a high school student, and then I will always be deeply
Ari Betof:
indebted to then went to college and majored in physics and math
Ari Betof:
and had a minor in psychology, played soccer and tennis and the
Ari Betof:
Honors Program at Del for college down in Greensboro,
Ari Betof:
North Carolina. Atlanta, and then I started my teaching
Ari Betof:
career at Northfield Mount Herman school in Western
Ari Betof:
Massachusetts, and in that great boarding school way, I taught
Ari Betof:
physics and math. I came in to coach soccer in tennis. I made
Ari Betof:
the mistake in my interview of saying to the athletic director
Ari Betof:
that I had wrestled for a week in high school, and so I found
Ari Betof:
myself being the head JV wrestling coach.
Christina Lewellen:
One week, that's all you needed, right?
Christina Lewellen:
One week of experience, I
Ari Betof:
was out on the field training for soccer the middle
Ari Betof:
of the winter, and one of the wrestlers ran out to the soccer
Ari Betof:
field and said, How much do you weigh? And I told him how much I
Ari Betof:
weighed, and he ran back in, and he ran back out, and he said,
Ari Betof:
Coach, whatever the coach's name was at that time, what's to see
Ari Betof:
you? And then three days later, I found myself on a wrestling
Ari Betof:
mat. So I coached those three sports at NMH, and I also lived
Ari Betof:
in a wonderful dorm called Overton, better known as Tron,
Ari Betof:
with 88 boys. And so had the wonderful boarding school Triple
Ari Betof:
Threat experience, did my doctorate at a University of
Ari Betof:
Pennsylvania, started studying the concept of organizational
Ari Betof:
stewardship, and then the great recession happened with Lehman
Ari Betof:
collapsing, and a lot of things around organizational
Ari Betof:
stewardship sort of pivoted to financial and organizational
Ari Betof:
sustainability. And so I was able to bring a lot of the
Ari Betof:
things from my time as a physics and math major in computational
Ari Betof:
modeling, and some of the work I had done, which maybe we'll talk
Ari Betof:
about today at north of Mount Hermon, about their
Ari Betof:
consolidation to one campus, into that work. And then I had
Ari Betof:
the chance to go back to George Cole and be a senior
Ari Betof:
administrator there, and was Director of Enrollment
Ari Betof:
Management with Christina Donovan and Janet Davis, and
Ari Betof:
then became Director of Institutional Advancement, and
Ari Betof:
then became the head of two schools. And I was also in
Ari Betof:
between the chief advancement officer at Minerva University
Ari Betof:
and started mission and data with my friend and your friend,
Ari Betof:
Kelsea Vroman. Kelsea has been a wonderful co founder and partner
Ari Betof:
with me, and that is the very brief, very meandery version of
Ari Betof:
how I got here to the Stevenson school in peteville Beach,
Ari Betof:
California.
Christina Lewellen:
I love it so much so now let's peel back the
Christina Lewellen:
onion on mission and data. So you and Kelsea. Kelsea, of
Christina Lewellen:
course, is one of our founders here at ATLIS, and you all went
Christina Lewellen:
off and founded mission and data. Why it seems like y'all
Christina Lewellen:
stepped into a spotlight that was sorely needed at a really
Christina Lewellen:
critical turning point for schools. And it's interesting,
Christina Lewellen:
because even though I haven't been around for decades and
Christina Lewellen:
decades, I've been around long enough to know that when your
Christina Lewellen:
company came into the space, we all kind of went, Oh, of course,
Christina Lewellen:
we need that. Like it was obvious, but where did you guys
Christina Lewellen:
come up with that idea? And what was the initial game plan for
Christina Lewellen:
mission and data. And now what has it grown into?
Ari Betof:
I had always been doing a little bit of consulting
Ari Betof:
ever since I had finished my doctoral work in 2011 and so
Ari Betof:
since then, I'd always kind of dabbled in some consulting. I'd
Ari Betof:
also done some lecturing at University of Pennsylvania in
Ari Betof:
their mid career doctoral program and Master's program.
Ari Betof:
And so I got to know a lot of emerging senior leaders and
Ari Betof:
wonderful mentors of mine who had taught in that program. And
Ari Betof:
so I had a little bit of a running start in that work. So I
Ari Betof:
had gone out and founded my own practice called organizational
Ari Betof:
sustainability consulting on the through line of something I
Ari Betof:
talked about in my doctoral research, which was this idea of
Ari Betof:
mission driven Community Center data informed decision making,
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and particularly that idea of mission driven data informed
Ari Betof:
decision making was kind of deeply rooted in my values as a
Ari Betof:
practicing Quaker and as somebody who cares deeply and
Ari Betof:
has taught, I think pretty deeply, about organizational
Ari Betof:
dynamics and organizational stewardship. And independently.
Ari Betof:
Kelsea, just after that, about six months after had left NAIS,
Ari Betof:
where she had done such amazing work and founded her original
Ari Betof:
practice, and her focus was a bit different, but she and I had
Ari Betof:
worked together. We had both been faculty in NAIS School
Ari Betof:
Leadership Institute program, so we had known each other pretty
Ari Betof:
well. And my wife, who worked in the program for heads, and
Ari Betof:
spouses of heads for NAIS for a while, also knew Kelsea through
Ari Betof:
that work at NAIS. And so at the height of the pandemic, there
Ari Betof:
was a real synergy of Kelsea and me being able to come together
Ari Betof:
and kind of meet market need in that moment, because we are so
Ari Betof:
philosophically aligned on the idea that we don't want schools
Ari Betof:
to become dependent on consultants. We don't want
Ari Betof:
schools to hire our firm or any firm, for something they don't
Ari Betof:
really need. What we want is to really be a value add to help
Ari Betof:
schools live their mission, schools associations like ATLIS,
Ari Betof:
as authentically as they can today, tomorrow, 1025, 50, 100
Ari Betof:
years from now. But to do that, they need to get much better at
Ari Betof:
making mission driven decisions, but that are deeply informed by
Ari Betof:
accurate, precise and ideally well visualized data for us.
Bill Stites:
Ari, you're describing exactly why MKA
Bill Stites:
engaged with. Mission and data, everything that you're talking
Bill Stites:
about there, seeing it in the work that we've been doing with
Bill Stites:
you guys over the past year, leading up to the real nuts and
Bill Stites:
bolts work, like where we're really going to dig in and get
Bill Stites:
at it, is really one of those reasons why I think the work
Bill Stites:
that you're doing, as Christina mentioned, it really hit on
Bill Stites:
something that I think a lot of schools need it in terms of
Bill Stites:
looking at things like your strategic plan, looking at all
Bill Stites:
of those things that you do in and around, like accreditation,
Bill Stites:
post accreditation work, you know, how are you proving? What
Bill Stites:
are the proof points that you've got that are allowing you to
Bill Stites:
hold to that and actually show that you are meeting those goals
Bill Stites:
and meeting those needs. So I can thank you already for it. At
Bill Stites:
the point where we're still, I'll say we're still launching,
Bill Stites:
because it hasn't completely taken off, I think, in the real
Bill Stites:
meat of the work. But it's been great so far,
Ari Betof:
and it brings such joy. We've now gotten to work
Ari Betof:
with about 240 independent schools, about 25 membership
Ari Betof:
associations, and watching your schools and your association
Ari Betof:
vibrantly thrive is something that we take real joy in. I
Ari Betof:
think that's because so many of us have been, or continue to be,
Ari Betof:
in the case of a lot of our team still embedded in schools or
Ari Betof:
associations. And really it's about, in a lot of cases,
Ari Betof:
getting the foundation in the steel of the building right. And
Ari Betof:
yes, sometimes we're working on financial and organizational
Ari Betof:
sustainability projects or organizational transformation
Ari Betof:
projects, but sometimes the most important thing a school can do
Ari Betof:
is get their data governance house in order to just think
Ari Betof:
about data wrangling and data cleaning and those pieces. And
Ari Betof:
so we have not grown because we have wanted to grow. We've grown
Ari Betof:
because we get to work with exceptional people and there's
Ari Betof:
need. But at the end of the day, what I really appreciate is that
Ari Betof:
we get to work with fantastic clients doing good work, to live
Ari Betof:
their mission, and to do it in a way that helps them thrive today
Ari Betof:
and then also thrive into the future. And it is really joyful
Ari Betof:
work to get to do with folks like you. Bill in your school.
Hiram Cuevas:
I'll climb on that hill as well, because we're also
Hiram Cuevas:
a client of Michigan data. We were first exposed listening to
Hiram Cuevas:
a presentation by Jason Kearns, current board member, at ATLIS,
Hiram Cuevas:
and he kept talking about squishy metrics.
Christina Lewellen:
He used that term squishy metrics.
Hiram Cuevas:
Squishy metrics,
Ari Betof:
if you are playing mission and data bingo, you
Ari Betof:
probably want the phrase shared understanding in the middle of
Ari Betof:
your board. Okay, got it, but squishy is definitely one of the
Ari Betof:
things you want. We talk about squishy metrics and other
Ari Betof:
squishy things a
Christina Lewellen:
lot. I think I have a new shirt to make for
Christina Lewellen:
Kern. Yeah, I
Hiram Cuevas:
brought this concept back because we were
Hiram Cuevas:
trying to figure out how, you know, of course, the cart was
Hiram Cuevas:
already before the horse, where we had the strategic plan in
Hiram Cuevas:
place, but we were trying to figure out, how do we measure
Hiram Cuevas:
the success of this? And Jason was really helpful in helping us
Hiram Cuevas:
define what we were actually trying to measure with our
Hiram Cuevas:
strategic plan. And I'll take a step back just slightly and say
Hiram Cuevas:
when I introduced this concept of using mission and data, there
Hiram Cuevas:
was a slight pause our head had not yet heard of mission and
Hiram Cuevas:
data. We had made the pitch a couple of times to him, and then
Hiram Cuevas:
I got a phone call, and he happened to be at a conference,
Hiram Cuevas:
and he says, Hiram, do you know Kelsea vrooman from mission and
Hiram Cuevas:
data? I was like, yes, it's like, I'm really impressed by
Hiram Cuevas:
what they're doing. It's like, that's the organization that
Hiram Cuevas:
we've been talking about. And he's like, I got it now. I
Hiram Cuevas:
understand that totally. See where you're coming from. And
Hiram Cuevas:
we've since then developed a wonderful partnership with
Hiram Cuevas:
mission and data.
Bill Stites:
One of the things that you mentioned that I think
Bill Stites:
really helps a lot with the work that you're doing, is you
Bill Stites:
mentioned the focus on data governance. Hiram and I have
Bill Stites:
said this before, when we would go in and consult with another
Bill Stites:
school, we would talk about this, and it would get a certain
Bill Stites:
level of buy in, because the consultant said that, and that's
Bill Stites:
one of the best things that has come out of for me, at least.
Bill Stites:
And I'm speaking personally as the tech director of somebody
Bill Stites:
who's got to wrangle all of that data that focus on, what are we
Bill Stites:
tracking? How are we tracking it? Where are we tracking it?
Bill Stites:
Who's responsible for tracking it? How clean is it in terms of
Bill Stites:
the work that we're doing to track it, because if we're going
Bill Stites:
to use all of these pieces to put together this picture of
Bill Stites:
success in terms of what we're doing, we need to have that good
Bill Stites:
data governance. So the work that mission and data does to
Bill Stites:
drive the school success also helps, from a tech director
Bill Stites:
standpoint, really helps reinforce a lot of the things
Bill Stites:
that I think we've been talking a lot about, but often have very
Bill Stites:
difficult time getting buy in around, because we don't have
Bill Stites:
that one thing that we're all reaching for in order to put all
Bill Stites:
of it into so that we've got this product that's going to
Bill Stites:
allow us to do something. And really see the fruition of all
Bill Stites:
of this work and all of this effort. So it's hugely helpful,
Bill Stites:
because it gives you that North Star to shoot for when we're
Bill Stites:
doing all this work.
Ari Betof:
It is hard to be a prophet in your own land. It
Ari Betof:
just is. And when I stepped into my first headship, I had just
Ari Betof:
finished my doctoral work on financial and organizational
Ari Betof:
sustainability of independent schools, and I moved into the
Ari Betof:
role of new garden Friends School, and we had some work to
Ari Betof:
do in that area. But even as much as I had been thinking
Ari Betof:
about that area for a long time, one of the wisest things I've
Ari Betof:
ever done was ask Bruce Stewart, who had been the head of Sidwell
Ari Betof:
Friends, had helped found new garden to come back onto my
Ari Betof:
board, because he could be that wise person in the room that
Ari Betof:
could say things differently than I could say, and I don't
Ari Betof:
think any organization should hire a consultant unless they
Ari Betof:
really, really need it. In fact, we spend a lot of time
Ari Betof:
recommending that people to reach out to us, work with
Ari Betof:
ATLIS, or work with CIRIS, or work with a state and regional
Ari Betof:
Association. That's a much better solution in a lot of
Ari Betof:
cases, financially. But there are certainly times where in the
Ari Betof:
sort of spectrum between DIY and fully outsourcing something,
Ari Betof:
that's a big spectrum, and finding that right combination
Ari Betof:
in between can really help move a school or an initiative
Ari Betof:
forward, because at the end of the day, Bill, to your point,
Ari Betof:
they are human processes and technical processes, and if you
Ari Betof:
don't manage both, very bad things happen.
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, absolutely. And that actually
Christina Lewellen:
brings me to one of my pressing questions for you, Ari, is, what
Christina Lewellen:
is it that you're wrestling right now with schools? I'm sure
Christina Lewellen:
it varies from school to school, but mission and data works with
Christina Lewellen:
a lot of schools across a bunch of different categories of
Christina Lewellen:
independent school. So I'm curious, what are the challenges
Christina Lewellen:
that you're helping schools wrestle, or are there
Christina Lewellen:
opportunities that they are overlooking that sometimes the
Christina Lewellen:
data can reveal
Ari Betof:
we get to cross pollinate a lot between schools
Ari Betof:
that we work with. Obviously, we can't share confidential
Ari Betof:
information, but there's just a lot of insight from getting to
Ari Betof:
work with this many schools. But we also get the benefit of being
Ari Betof:
a strategic data partner with Enrollment Management
Ari Betof:
Association and with the work we've done with tabs and with
Ari Betof:
ATLIS, with NAIS, with case, with NBOA, and I'm very grateful
Ari Betof:
that we have been able to dip our toes in that many different
Ari Betof:
pools, because I think it really is of service to our clients to
Ari Betof:
have those insights and perspectives. One of the areas
Ari Betof:
that is most challenging right now is just how dynamic the
Ari Betof:
landscape is. If you're a boarding school with the
Ari Betof:
challenging context related to international student visas, the
Ari Betof:
lack of clearness about the direction of the economy. All of
Ari Betof:
those are contextual pieces that are making boards and donors and
Ari Betof:
families paying tuition skittish in various ways, so that amount
Ari Betof:
of unknown and dynamic environment is challenging. I do
Ari Betof:
think that there is a growing awareness from boards about the
Ari Betof:
importance of leveraging data, of visualizing data. Often they
Ari Betof:
don't know exactly what would be most helpful for them to serve
Ari Betof:
as trustees and fiduciaries and stewards of the institution, and
Ari Betof:
so sometimes they can lead the board down a rabbit hole without
Ari Betof:
meaning to by asking for more and more and more. And
Ari Betof:
sometimes, for example, when we work on an enrollment and market
Ari Betof:
analysis, we'll say to them, No, this is operational
Ari Betof:
visualizations, because you can drill down to the individual
Ari Betof:
student level, and it's not appropriate for the board to do
Ari Betof:
that, but then having a view that is appropriate for the
Ari Betof:
board, for example, can be really helpful. They're hungry
Ari Betof:
to make wise decisions. And boards, especially as a group,
Ari Betof:
can be incredibly in cycle, wise bodies, but we have to put them
Ari Betof:
in a position to do their best work. That is a challenge. The
Ari Betof:
amount of turnover. We see this a lot in head roles, CFO roles,
Ari Betof:
enrollment, advancement, directors of technology. Roles
Ari Betof:
are all roles where, when we see churn, there's so much lost
Ari Betof:
institutional progress and institutional knowledge. And my
Ari Betof:
one bugaboo, if we want to get deep into the data, is the
Ari Betof:
number of schools right now changing technical systems, and
Ari Betof:
either by their choice or at the recommendation of the company
Ari Betof:
that they're working with, not bringing over sufficient amount
Ari Betof:
of their historic data. Lots of schools, it's been recommended
Ari Betof:
to them that they only bring over two or three years of data,
Ari Betof:
because that's the only data that's clean. But if you don't
Ari Betof:
at least bring it over, you have no chance of ever cleaning it
Ari Betof:
and then getting greater historic insight. And so our
Ari Betof:
recommendation is always to bring over as much data as you
Ari Betof:
possibly can. You may not be able to use it all for analysis
Ari Betof:
right now because of institutional bandwidth, but you
Ari Betof:
can't go back to data that isn't there.
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, let's stop down on that for a second,
Christina Lewellen:
because there are, I think, increasing price. Pressures on
Christina Lewellen:
schools from our observation that yesterday's tech isn't
Christina Lewellen:
necessarily doing what today's consumers need. By consumers, I
Christina Lewellen:
sometimes mean teachers, sometimes students or parents,
Christina Lewellen:
administrators, so there's this pressure to maybe advance our
Christina Lewellen:
tech stack. And yet what you're saying is really interesting,
Christina Lewellen:
because it might be tying our hands in ways that we didn't
Christina Lewellen:
necessarily anticipate if we try to do a data project down the
Christina Lewellen:
road. Is there anything that you can recommend other than pulling
Christina Lewellen:
over as much as you can if you're going to do a transition?
Christina Lewellen:
What are the ways that tech teams can help enable and unlock
Christina Lewellen:
these efforts to pull good data out of the systems, in other
Christina Lewellen:
words, like, if you walk into a school, is there a certain
Christina Lewellen:
situation where you're like and kind of rolling your eyes at
Christina Lewellen:
like that? It's such a mess.
Ari Betof:
We never roll our eyes when we start with a new
Ari Betof:
client,
Christina Lewellen:
sure, not publicly, I'm sure. And it would
Christina Lewellen:
never happen at Hiram Bill school either, I have no doubt.
Christina Lewellen:
But like, you know, there's got to be things that tech teams can
Christina Lewellen:
do to make this easier.
Ari Betof:
I want to go back to something Bill said earlier, and
Ari Betof:
that's the importance of both the technical side and the human
Ari Betof:
side, and maybe I'll name one thing on each so I still love
Ari Betof:
the concept of a cradle to grave data system, the idea that
Ari Betof:
everything is in one beautiful place that has a common ID and
Ari Betof:
maps the experience from a time a family first inquires to the
Ari Betof:
time that hopefully they give a planned gift at the end of their
Ari Betof:
life. Like that is a lovely concept. And Bill, you look
Ari Betof:
really excited about it. And the reality is is most schools are
Ari Betof:
nowhere near it, and it doesn't meet all of their needs in all
Ari Betof:
the ways they want. And so I love the concept. I think in
Ari Betof:
reality, it has not worked as well as we hope. On the
Ari Betof:
technical side, the part that is most pressing, I think, is the
Ari Betof:
need to have, obviously, clean data, but then to be able to get
Ari Betof:
it into a common place, so whether it is a data lake or
Ari Betof:
somewhere else, so that there is, you know, a unique
Ari Betof:
identifier, and that we can connect these disparate data
Ari Betof:
sets in ways that have fidelity and longitudinal consistency is
Ari Betof:
really important. As a quick example, when we start working
Ari Betof:
with a new client, we can almost always tell when there was a
Ari Betof:
change in the Director of Enrollment Management position,
Ari Betof:
because it shows in the data and how things are being tracked,
Ari Betof:
and that is not in the institution's best interest to
Ari Betof:
have that much variability based on who the most senior leader of
Ari Betof:
the enrollment office is. So that's sort of on the data side,
Ari Betof:
on the human side. I think there's a much greater need for
Ari Betof:
the most senior technical leader, whether that's titled.
Ari Betof:
And there's a lot of variety and titles in the technology world,
Ari Betof:
the head of school, the CFO, and then the other functional
Ari Betof:
leaders, to be working much more in partnership with one another,
Ari Betof:
to be having that conversation, to understand what institutional
Ari Betof:
capacity there is, to be doing this work where they may need
Ari Betof:
some help to kind of move from their own two yard line to the
Ari Betof:
50 yard line, and where the school can carry it forward. One
Ari Betof:
of the reasons I'm really grateful that I get to work with
Ari Betof:
such insightful people that kind of bridge being at the
Ari Betof:
intersection of theory and practice, Eric Heilman and Sarah
Ari Betof:
Angelle and rock and John Dorse Simon and Mike Kegler and folks
Ari Betof:
like that, is that they are living that in their schools
Ari Betof:
every single day. And like you all, they get the benefit of
Ari Betof:
seeing across a wider landscape at the same time. But that
Ari Betof:
partnership, that institutional savvy really, really matters.
Bill Stites:
You notice my excitement with the idea of the
Bill Stites:
cradle grave, and I know it doesn't exist, because there's
Bill Stites:
too many different places where things branch off and there are
Bill Stites:
better ways to do things in other systems. I was glad you
Bill Stites:
mentioned the data warehouse, in the data lake, whatever
Bill Stites:
direction you choose to go with those because in the work that
Bill Stites:
we're doing here and the work that I've done with other
Bill Stites:
schools, being able to have a place to store all of that,
Bill Stites:
because you don't know what you're going to need until you
Bill Stites:
actually need it. So the ability to have that there and have that
Bill Stites:
in the place, I think, is incredibly important. We're
Bill Stites:
trying to go through this process right now. We just
Bill Stites:
dumped all of our razor's edge data into Veracross and the
Bill Stites:
number of keys, reference IDs that we're now sharing between
Bill Stites:
all of those systems is a growing list, and one where, you
Bill Stites:
know, there's a good deal of management, but if you can
Bill Stites:
capture those and carry those into those other systems, I
Bill Stites:
think it really makes our work as tech directors a lot easier
Bill Stites:
when you're trying to then pull it all together and present a
Bill Stites:
complete portrait of a constituent in the school as it
Bill Stites:
relates to all of those systems, because emails change, even you
Bill Stites:
know, first and last names change to some degree. So having
Bill Stites:
something that you can hold on to, like that unique idea.
Bill Stites:
Identify, or whether it's in one system or multiple systems, is
Bill Stites:
something that I can't stress enough, both in the work that
Bill Stites:
we're doing here and the work that we all do when we talk with
Bill Stites:
other
Ari Betof:
schools. You know, back in 2005 2007 when I was
Ari Betof:
working at George Cole, we were on a system that was in the
Ari Betof:
higher ed space called Gen Z bar, the SQL based system, and
Ari Betof:
at that point, we were talking about Microsoft data, Cuevas and
Ari Betof:
things like that. And I say that to say it's 20 years later, and
Ari Betof:
we're largely still struggling with the same topic. We haven't
Ari Betof:
made a tremendous amount of progress, and it's because I
Ari Betof:
think it is not a technical issue, it is a workflow issue.
Ari Betof:
It is a data governance issue, and we are not I don't think
Ari Betof:
making the argument compellingly enough, why as schools, we need
Ari Betof:
to value data governance, why that longitudinal consistency
Ari Betof:
really matters? As a firm, we can do some really interesting
Ari Betof:
predictive enrollment and net tuition revenue modeling for
Ari Betof:
schools that have a critical mass of historic data about both
Ari Betof:
enrollment and applicant pool, but we can't chew that if
Ari Betof:
there's no data fidelity. And so the fact that we're two decades
Ari Betof:
into the same challenges, I think, should be an indicator
Ari Betof:
that we need to begin to have these conversations differently
Ari Betof:
and with different people to help the full organization
Ari Betof:
understand there are some real signs of progress. And I just
Ari Betof:
want to name two I mentioned when we were on Jens of our so
Ari Betof:
there was an amazing database administrator at George Cole
Ari Betof:
when we were there, named Tom Rogers. Tom's an alumnus of the
Ari Betof:
school, and literally 10 minutes before I jumped on with you all,
Ari Betof:
I found out that Tom had just joined George Schools Board of
Ari Betof:
Trustees this year, right? And so one of the things that made
Ari Betof:
Tom so amazing in his role within the IT team was that he
Ari Betof:
both spoke technology and school. And I'm borrowing a
Ari Betof:
phrase from Cindy Albertan on our team, who says that she
Ari Betof:
speaks finance and school, which is true, but Tom really did, and
Ari Betof:
he could do that translation between the two. And I think
Ari Betof:
about somebody like Sarah Hansa line rock, who I mentioned
Ari Betof:
before, who's now on the board of Aisne in New England. And so
Ari Betof:
I do think that we're starting to see organizations recognize
Ari Betof:
the importance of lifting up technology leaders and
Ari Betof:
Institutional Research leaders in having a healthy and thriving
Ari Betof:
organization.
Hiram Cuevas:
So Ari, it really sounds to me, we're talking
Hiram Cuevas:
about a school culture issue, predominantly in terms of the
Hiram Cuevas:
recognition of the importance of that data governance. There's a
Hiram Cuevas:
lot of chatter about data governance, but it's getting
Hiram Cuevas:
everybody within a leadership team up to speed about
Hiram Cuevas:
understanding the importance of it longitudinally, looking
Hiram Cuevas:
forward. What do you currently have in house? Bill mentioned
Hiram Cuevas:
earlier that we had done several different consulting gigs with
Hiram Cuevas:
schools, and the schools that we have found that do their best
Hiram Cuevas:
are the ones that are open to actually making the systemic
Hiram Cuevas:
changes that are needed internally in order to get their
Hiram Cuevas:
data to do what it needs to do, and that you're doing this not
Hiram Cuevas:
because admissions needs this. You're not doing this because
Hiram Cuevas:
the development office needs this. You're doing this because
Hiram Cuevas:
the entire school needs this. And I think that's the secret
Hiram Cuevas:
sauce. But to your point earlier, where you were saying
Hiram Cuevas:
that certain people can speak both their area and school,
Hiram Cuevas:
there's such a need there to tell that story, because
Hiram Cuevas:
oftentimes, when they hear data, people just kind of throw their
Hiram Cuevas:
hands up and they want the end result, but they're not willing
Hiram Cuevas:
to put the work in on the front end to make it do what it needs
Hiram Cuevas:
to do.
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, they probably want the dashboard, the
Christina Lewellen:
pretty colors and the output, but they don't understand all
Christina Lewellen:
that goes into it. Just make it work, right? They come to you
Christina Lewellen:
Ari, and they want something cute and something their board
Christina Lewellen:
can look at, but they don't realize how much goes into
Ari Betof:
it. And there's a real danger in that point as
Ari Betof:
well. Look data. Storytelling is an art as much as it is a
Ari Betof:
science, right? And we're talking about Kelsea Roman
Ari Betof:
earlier. She is the best data storyteller I have ever met in
Ari Betof:
my entire life. I, by my nature, make things more complicated,
Ari Betof:
for better or worse, and Kelsea can take incredibly complicated
Ari Betof:
data and consolidate them down to a visual data story that is
Ari Betof:
consumable and that really is a superpower, but it is a
Ari Betof:
superpower that can be learned. I do think there is also a real
Ari Betof:
danger, though, in well visualized data, because if it
Ari Betof:
is not accurate and precise, if we go back to sort of middle
Ari Betof:
school science, right, if it's not measuring the thing that you
Ari Betof:
think it is, and if it's not actually calibrated, then you
Ari Betof:
can really lead yourself astray. One of the most dangerous parts,
Ari Betof:
and this is a worry that I have is there is continued talk that
Ari Betof:
AI is just going to make dashboards, and I think there
Ari Betof:
will be a point where AI can just make dashboards. They'll
Ari Betof:
either make them directly into Google Looker studio or
Ari Betof:
Microsoft bi or Tableau. But if there's no critical analysis of
Ari Betof:
the underlying data, that's a real challenge, and one of the
Ari Betof:
most vulnerable points is at that moment where. You have a
Ari Betof:
well visualized dashboard, if you don't, then look at every
Ari Betof:
single visual, every single data point, and make sure that it is
Ari Betof:
correct, not just when you launch it, but over the course
Ari Betof:
of an entire year cycle. Because we know things change at a
Ari Betof:
school over the course of a year, then you just run the risk
Ari Betof:
of relying on things that are wrong, they're just wrong. And
Ari Betof:
that's actually in some ways, a more dangerous position to be in
Ari Betof:
than not having a well visualized dashboard at all. And
Ari Betof:
so that's a piece of work that we tend to do with schools to
Ari Betof:
really lean in to that last piece of making sure that they
Ari Betof:
can leverage the tools they have in front of them.
Bill Stites:
I think Jason Kern, who just was at MKA a week or
Bill Stites:
two ago, that was some of the best work that he did. Because I
Bill Stites:
think you make a very good point. You know, a visualization
Bill Stites:
is only as good as the story that it's telling, because it's
Bill Stites:
one chapter in that overall story that you're trying to
Bill Stites:
tell, and being able to understand and see how all of
Bill Stites:
those pieces fit together, I think, is incredibly important
Bill Stites:
and incredibly powerful. And one of the things that I think, in
Bill Stites:
this case, mission and data, Jason did for us was to help us
Bill Stites:
figure out the questions that we're going to need to ask to
Bill Stites:
tell our story based on what we're saying is coming out of
Bill Stites:
our strategic plan. I'm glad you said it, because the
Bill Stites:
storytelling aspect of this is something that I think really
Bill Stites:
needs to get out there more so that any of the work that we do
Bill Stites:
in data is about a long story. It's not about like a single
Bill Stites:
piece. And the more we can do to build understanding around that,
Bill Stites:
because the work that we've done on dashboards in the past all
Bill Stites:
focused on this one dashboard and this one thing that we were
Bill Stites:
looking at. And as you said before, boards will ask for more
Bill Stites:
questions around this one thing, and you end up down these rabbit
Bill Stites:
holes that you never intended, nor are not really ever going to
Bill Stites:
do anything to really help move the school forward? So by having
Bill Stites:
clearly articulated questions, by having multiple data points
Bill Stites:
that are in a more comprehensive dashboard, not just a single
Bill Stites:
point, I think, really help with that idea of telling the proper
Bill Stites:
story.
Ari Betof:
We haven't talked about training, but that's a
Ari Betof:
huge piece of this. If the idea is that you're going to build a
Ari Betof:
tool and roll it out to a functional team within the
Ari Betof:
school or the board or anyone once, and train them once, and
Ari Betof:
then they're going to use it forever more. That's just
Ari Betof:
following. And so we're doing a lot of thinking about what does
Ari Betof:
it mean as part of new trustee orientation to train the new set
Ari Betof:
of Trustees, not just on how to get into the dashboard and
Ari Betof:
what's there. But what does it mean? You know, Kelsea helped us
Ari Betof:
frame these three questions, what do we see? What does it
Ari Betof:
mean? Why does it matter? And part of the work that our
Ari Betof:
governance team, Anne Marie Balzano and Barb rostin And
Ari Betof:
Sadie and others have done is try to help norm that in
Ari Betof:
schools, so that when there are discussions, whether they're
Ari Betof:
discussions inside the school or with trustees, that when people
Ari Betof:
are looking at data and they don't understand what they're
Ari Betof:
looking at, they don't understand what it means or why
Ari Betof:
it matters, that we norm that that is a right question to ask
Ari Betof:
and to take away the stigma from that part of that is managing
Ari Betof:
up. And we don't talk enough about that. Managing Up is a
Ari Betof:
great John Cole quote that managing up is not manipulating
Ari Betof:
your boss, and it's really true. Understanding how to frame these
Ari Betof:
dashboards or other data tools are incredibly important. And
Ari Betof:
Bill, the part you said about Jason and one of the reasons why
Ari Betof:
Mike Cobb and Jason were such a good team when they were inside
Ari Betof:
of a school was their work with synergistic similarly, we see
Ari Betof:
synergies in these data tools. So you know, when we're working
Ari Betof:
with a school on accountability and implementation either of a
Ari Betof:
strategic plan or rolling out a set of accreditation
Ari Betof:
recommendations and how a school is going to address those over a
Ari Betof:
series of years, there's often a view at the board level, which
Ari Betof:
is a higher level view, and then a view at the leadership team
Ari Betof:
level which is much more detailed. And it's not just that
Ari Betof:
there's confidential information in one and not the other. It's
Ari Betof:
that it's the appropriate level of information for each of those
Ari Betof:
groups to see. Now it's a fine line between there and hiding
Ari Betof:
things from people, and we're not talking about hiding things
Ari Betof:
or manipulating what people see. That's unethical, but getting
Ari Betof:
people the information so they can do their best work is really
Ari Betof:
important.
Bill Stites:
Something that my family always said when I was
Bill Stites:
growing up was talk to me like I'm a third grader, and not to
Bill Stites:
talk down to me, but to talk to me and boil things down to their
Bill Stites:
simplest form so that I can clearly understand them. And I
Bill Stites:
think that's one of the other things that you kind of touched
Bill Stites:
on there, is that when we think about these visualizations, when
Bill Stites:
we think about the way in which we're presenting data and
Bill Stites:
presenting our story, also understanding that not everyone
Bill Stites:
has a degree in statistics, not everyone knows how to properly,
Bill Stites:
and I'm speaking for myself here, properly read. Box plot,
Bill Stites:
like it was one of these things where it's like, I'm looking at
Bill Stites:
all of these different ways in which we can visualize the data,
Bill Stites:
but I don't know what it's telling me. It looks good, but I
Bill Stites:
don't know what it's saying to me. And I think being able to
Bill Stites:
simplify the story, or do the training around how we're going
Bill Stites:
to look at these things, and what is this thing that I'm
Bill Stites:
looking at showing me you can't make assumptions around that.
Bill Stites:
You can't make assumptions that everyone understands what you or
Bill Stites:
I or someone else might take for granted, and that training work
Bill Stites:
around that aspect of it, I think, is critical. And like all
Bill Stites:
the professional development work that we need to do, it just
Bill Stites:
can't be a moment in time. It needs to be ongoing. So I
Bill Stites:
applaud you for all of those pieces.
Christina Lewellen:
Ari, I'm curious. I know that you can't
Christina Lewellen:
necessarily disclose any individual client, but you see a
Christina Lewellen:
lot of this, and I'm assuming that there's a certain amount of
Christina Lewellen:
we need to look at certain aspects of enrollment or staff
Christina Lewellen:
retention, so you probably get, like, the run of the mill stuff.
Christina Lewellen:
But is there any particular story that has been stand out or
Christina Lewellen:
notable to you in this work? Is there any case study that kind
Christina Lewellen:
of surprised you, that as you talk to schools, if they're
Christina Lewellen:
coming to mission and data and saying, Hey, what's possible
Christina Lewellen:
here? Are there any stories that have landed with you, maybe a
Christina Lewellen:
little bit more surprising or impressive than others.
Ari Betof:
Yes, maybe I'll highlight two of them. So we
Ari Betof:
have nine practice areas within the firm, and I lead both our
Ari Betof:
financial and organizational sustainability practice and our
Ari Betof:
organizational effectiveness and transformation practice, and
Ari Betof:
sometimes that is schools that are fighting for viability and
Ari Betof:
trying to stay open. You know, we're working with a school that
Ari Betof:
just crossed a billion dollars of endowment, another that
Ari Betof:
finished about a half a billion dollar comprehensive campaign,
Ari Betof:
and a lot of things in between, right? That's a big spectrum,
Ari Betof:
but two stories sort of across that spectrum that are
Ari Betof:
interesting, both of which I think reflect the school's
Ari Betof:
commitment, in their own words, not mine, to a mission driven,
Ari Betof:
community centered, data informed approach. So there's a
Ari Betof:
wonderful school in Wilmington, North Carolina, called Cape Fear
Ari Betof:
Academy. And Cape Fear acquired about 11 acres contiguous to
Ari Betof:
their campus, and their really wise Head of School, Ed Ellison,
Ari Betof:
recognized that before they decided what they wanted to do
Ari Betof:
with it, before they brought in a campus master planning firm,
Ari Betof:
they really had an opportunity Wilmington. The population is
Ari Betof:
growing, but they didn't want to overgrow the school. They didn't
Ari Betof:
want to change who the school fundamentally was. They want in
Ari Betof:
our language. They wanted to protect what was immovable about
Ari Betof:
the school. So they decided that they wanted to figure out how
Ari Betof:
big they wanted to grow and in what configuration before then
Ari Betof:
they decided what they wanted the campus to look like. And so
Ari Betof:
we worked with working group of the leadership team and board on
Ari Betof:
that, and then they did strategic planning, and then
Ari Betof:
they did accountability and implementation. And in the
Ari Betof:
middle of that, they also brought in a campus master
Ari Betof:
planning firm to be synergistic with Ed, and that's a whole
Ari Betof:
school approach with students and mission at the center of
Ari Betof:
that work. And I really give Ed and the board credit for kind of
Ari Betof:
fueling the resource engine to make those things happen. No
Ari Betof:
school has infinite resources, and so they really decided
Ari Betof:
strategically where they wanted to invest in those on the other
Ari Betof:
side, there's a wonderful school up in Connecticut, Westover
Ari Betof:
School, which is doing some incredible things right now, and
Ari Betof:
their head of school, Polly, is doing wonderful work with her
Ari Betof:
leadership team and the board in partnership, making the School
Ari Betof:
vibrant and growing enrollment in what is a complicated market
Ari Betof:
and time as a boarding and day school, and similarly, deciding
Ari Betof:
what things they want to carry in house, where they need some
Ari Betof:
short term external expertise. But again, in that way, where
Ari Betof:
they are very clear they have shared understanding of what is
Ari Betof:
in the DNA of Westover, what they need to steward and
Ari Betof:
protect, and then they can talk about how to leverage data to
Ari Betof:
really capitalize on opportunities and address
Ari Betof:
challenges that are in front of them in ways that are so
Ari Betof:
thoughtful and agile and it's very, very impressive,
Christina Lewellen:
those are really great examples. Thank
Christina Lewellen:
you. That's exactly what I was curious about. I know that
Christina Lewellen:
mission and data also does a lot of work with associations.
Christina Lewellen:
Obviously, ATLIS is one of them, and we're really proud of the
Christina Lewellen:
projects that we've done with you guys. We have a compensation
Christina Lewellen:
dashboard. One of my favorite aspects of that is something
Christina Lewellen:
your team brought to us, which was the idea of a salary band
Christina Lewellen:
predictor. We have enough data now where if you put in a
Christina Lewellen:
variety of variables, you can predict what your salary could
Christina Lewellen:
or might should be if you are looking at a new job or trying
Christina Lewellen:
to benchmark where you're at. So I love that tool. I also I
Christina Lewellen:
haven't talked about it too much on the pod. It's kind of an
Christina Lewellen:
emerging resource that ATLIS has put together a really neat
Christina Lewellen:
interact. Version of the ATLIS 360 self study, where you can
Christina Lewellen:
kind of do a tech audit, and it saves your data. So if Hiram
Christina Lewellen:
goes in on year one and year two and year three, he can look at
Christina Lewellen:
his own notes and his own data, which would be private to him,
Christina Lewellen:
but then he could also create a peer group and compare how he's
Christina Lewellen:
doing, and let's say cybersecurity, compared to
Christina Lewellen:
another set of peer schools. So the work we do with you, I get
Christina Lewellen:
hyped up about as kind of a data geek myself, so I love that
Christina Lewellen:
you're doing incredible work with other associations in our
Christina Lewellen:
space. And I guess my big picture question for you, having
Christina Lewellen:
worked with a lot of us, is, do you think the role that we're
Christina Lewellen:
playing is shifting lately. You know, coming out of the
Christina Lewellen:
pandemic, I think that the things that our heads of school,
Christina Lewellen:
that our technology leaders, our Business Officers, are expecting
Christina Lewellen:
of the associations in terms of understanding how they fit
Christina Lewellen:
within a peer group is kind of shifting and changing that might
Christina Lewellen:
be coming from awareness of their boards, wanting to know
Christina Lewellen:
how they're playing in the sandbox with other competitors,
Christina Lewellen:
perhaps. But do you think that you're seeing some shifts in how
Christina Lewellen:
Independent School Associations are developing relationships
Christina Lewellen:
with data?
Ari Betof:
I'll tell you the thing that hasn't changed first,
Ari Betof:
which is I think there is a group of CEOs or executive
Ari Betof:
directors of membership associations that are deeply
Ari Betof:
focused on meeting member need, and that is critically
Ari Betof:
important, and it's an easy thing for associations to
Ari Betof:
forget. Right to meet their members where they're at, and
Ari Betof:
so, yeah, I do think meeting them where they're at is
Ari Betof:
changing, because what schools and school leaders need are
Ari Betof:
changing, but the consistency is that through line and i
Ari Betof:
Christina and I think about the work you're doing, even in the
Ari Betof:
transition, for example, between Heather hurl at EMA and now Mike
Ari Betof:
Flanagan, who's going to lead the new combined organization of
Ari Betof:
Enrollment Management Association and ERB Deborah
Ari Betof:
Wilson at NAIS. So one of the things I got to do this year
Ari Betof:
that I just love doing was help facilitate the conversations
Ari Betof:
between NAIS and Ema about the new dasl definitions for
Ari Betof:
Enrollment Management, which is a project that many of us have
Ari Betof:
wanted to take on for a while. It is wildly complicated because
Ari Betof:
you want to create historical comparison, and there were some
Ari Betof:
opportunities to be capturing some data, new data, and data
Ari Betof:
differently that were really important and balancing that.
Ari Betof:
And so when I think about membership need, yes, there is a
Ari Betof:
place for flagship research projects. You know, Sarah enter
Ari Betof:
line, and I have been talking with EMA about the report that
Ari Betof:
we just published about perceived value and
Ari Betof:
affordability with them, like those big projects almost nobody
Ari Betof:
can take on besides a membership association. But these other
Ari Betof:
just in time tools, like you're saying and just in time tools
Ari Betof:
that also have longitudinal consistency. So if Hiram is
Ari Betof:
doing that, and Hiram, unless you plan to sit in your seat
Ari Betof:
until the earth stops revolving around the sun, the ability to
Ari Betof:
hand that off to a next person you might sit in your seat, and
Ari Betof:
to have good institutional memory about things like that.
Ari Betof:
Those are things I think membership associations are
Ari Betof:
pushing themselves on when that makes sense, when it's beyond
Ari Betof:
the scope of what we can do right now, how to help
Ari Betof:
facilitate those and there's not a perfect right or wrong answer,
Ari Betof:
because every organization, including membership
Ari Betof:
organizations, only have so much human, financial and adaptive
Ari Betof:
capacity, but that's the work. Christina, I think you all are
Ari Betof:
really challenging yourself and your teams to be doing well and
Ari Betof:
thoughtfully right now.
Christina Lewellen:
Ari, as we start winding down our time, I'd
Christina Lewellen:
love for you to tell our listeners a little bit about
Christina Lewellen:
other podcasts that you are involved in, you have a
Christina Lewellen:
podcasting career as well.
Ari Betof:
I definitely do not nobody should have to listen to
Ari Betof:
me that much, but I am grateful and glad. It brings me great joy
Ari Betof:
to co host em as impossible questions podcast with Christian
Ari Betof:
Donovan, previously with Hansa mundall. So the whole through
Ari Betof:
line of that podcast are people send us the hardest, gnarliest
Ari Betof:
questions that they don't know how to answer, and then we
Ari Betof:
figure out really smart people to solve them, or at least to
Ari Betof:
answer them. Often, there is some sort of enrollment
Ari Betof:
connection to those given the fact that it's hosted by EMA.
Ari Betof:
But as we know, strategic enrollment management is both
Ari Betof:
broad and deep, and so that's a pretty big swimming pool to swim
Ari Betof:
in. And then recently, I've been co hosting with Christina Dodge
Ari Betof:
in a mini season of EMAS enrollment spectrum podcast
Ari Betof:
focused on this new report that I mentioned about perceived
Ari Betof:
value and affordability in independent schools. And we've
Ari Betof:
just did a wonderful interview with Amadi tourism Mark Mitchell
Ari Betof:
from NAIS, right before that, we did an interview with the head
Ari Betof:
of Cornell University's New York City Campus at Cornell Tech.
Ari Betof:
He's a behavioral economist and expert on price signaling. And
Ari Betof:
so one of the things that I love is getting to learn from people
Ari Betof:
way smarter than me. And both of those podcasts are a great
Ari Betof:
opportunity. To collaborate with people I really enjoy and hear
Ari Betof:
from smart folks.
Christina Lewellen:
I love that people will put those links in
Christina Lewellen:
the show notes so that everybody can go find them. That sounds
Christina Lewellen:
really great. So okay, we're wrapping up, but given that we
Christina Lewellen:
started with go birds, go birds, let's just end this conversation
Christina Lewellen:
with something that's deeply pressing to the entire
Christina Lewellen:
community. How about the old Philadelphia girl getting
Christina Lewellen:
engaged to a Kansas City boy? I'd like your reaction to the T
Christina Lewellen:
swift Travis Kelsea engagement.
Bill Stites:
I just love when she was on the podcast, and they
Bill Stites:
actually read that she was from Nashville, Tennessee, and he
Bill Stites:
corrected that very quickly to call out that she's actually
Bill Stites:
from reading
Christina Lewellen:
she's a Pennsylvania girl, indeed. So
Christina Lewellen:
Bill, are you excited about this? Ari, do we have feelings
Christina Lewellen:
about this big engagement?
Ari Betof:
I love it, and I love it because the intersection of
Ari Betof:
the Kelsea brothers and Kylie Kelsea and Taylor Swift is one
Ari Betof:
of the most wholesome, lovely. It is joyful things you will
Ari Betof:
ever see. In full transparency, I watched the entire podcast
Ari Betof:
video. It made my heart happy. So anybody that is not excited
Ari Betof:
about the idea of people being happy, heart of stone. Yeah, I
Ari Betof:
don't have a lot of time for that.
Christina Lewellen:
That is exactly the right answer. Ari,
Christina Lewellen:
I'm so excited that you loved it. I loved it too. The news of
Christina Lewellen:
the engagement dropped when we were at the ATLIS staff retreat,
Christina Lewellen:
and I think they all thought I was a little nutty, but it made
Christina Lewellen:
me really happy, because I love people who are happy.
Bill Stites:
What I want to know is, when is When is she going to
Bill Stites:
be on? Not going to lie with
Christina Lewellen:
Kylie? Oh, I'm sure she will. It's got to
Christina Lewellen:
happen. She's got to
Bill Stites:
be on there. Because that's, I hate to say
Bill Stites:
it. That's the other podcast that I listen to all the time. I
Bill Stites:
listen to her. I'm not going to lie
Ari Betof:
so often in our recordings. I will mention
Ari Betof:
something about my family, my wife, my parents. People meet
Ari Betof:
them, and they are so impressive, and then they wonder
Ari Betof:
what happened to me, because they shine so much more
Ari Betof:
brightly. And I love that about my family. It really makes me
Ari Betof:
really happy the world is getting to see that Kylie Kelsea
Ari Betof:
as wonderful as Jason. Kelsea is like Kylie Kelsea is a shining
Ari Betof:
light in our world. They all are. It makes me so happy that
Ari Betof:
people are getting to see her authentic self, and that's
Ari Betof:
pretty
Christina Lewellen:
great. I think that right after Kylie's
Christina Lewellen:
podcast, she should come here. I'm just saying that would be a
Christina Lewellen:
get Peter Call Taylor Swift's people. Oh, I thought you met
Christina Lewellen:
Kylie Kelsea. I'd take her. Oh, either that's who I want. Yeah,
Christina Lewellen:
that would be a get both all any of them. Peter, Get on it. Call
Christina Lewellen:
them. Thank you, Ari, for joining us. I'm so grateful that
Christina Lewellen:
we had this time with you. We'll let you get back to real work.
Christina Lewellen:
But this was a pleasure. It's always great to chat with you.
Christina Lewellen:
Come back anytime.
Ari Betof:
Thanks to the three of you. It was great to be with
Ari Betof:
you all.
Narrator:
This has been talking technology with ATLIS, produced
Narrator:
by the Association of technology leaders in independent schools.
Narrator:
For more information about ATLIS and ATLIS membership, please
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