International Tech Leadership with Nate Doelling
Join us for a conversation with Nate Doelling, Director of Technology at Seoul Foreign School. Nate shares his extensive experience leading technology in international schools across several continents, offering a unique perspective on the challenges and rewards of his global career. Discover the nuances of international school technology management.
- Nate Doelling’s LinkedIn profile
- Seoul Foreign School
- Toddle, learning management system
- Managebac, multi-curricula teaching and learning platform
- Seesaw, learning experience platform connecting teachers, administrators, students, and families
- Brisk Teaching, Chrome and Edge browser extension that helps teachers with curriculum, feedback, and differentiation
- Magic School AI, AI platform for teachers and students
- 9ine, service that simplifies data protection, compliance, and cyber security requirements for schools
Transcript
Peter Frank:
Nick, welcome to Talking technology with Atlas,
Peter Frank:
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
Peter Frank:
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Peter Frank:
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
Peter Frank:
special guests from the Independent School community,
Peter Frank:
and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Peter Frank:
And now please welcome your host. Kristina llewellen,
Christina Lewellen:
hello everyone, and welcome back to
Christina Lewellen:
talking technology with Atlas. I'm Kristina llewellen. I'm the
Christina Lewellen:
president and CEO of the Association of technology
Christina Lewellen:
leaders in independent schools.
Bill Stites:
And I'm Bill Stites, the Director of
Bill Stites:
Technology at Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New
Bill Stites:
Jersey,
Hiram Cuevas:
and I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of
Hiram Cuevas:
Information Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher
Hiram Cuevas:
school in Richmond, Virginia.
Christina Lewellen:
Hello, gentlemen. How are you today?
Bill Stites:
Doing very well, up and early and at work, a little
Bill Stites:
tired, but doing
Christina Lewellen:
well end of school year stuff you're getting
Christina Lewellen:
there. Are you guys done with school? We are
Hiram Cuevas:
yes, we are done and in full fledged someone
Hiram Cuevas:
mode. Love
Christina Lewellen:
it. So normally I come into the pod and
Christina Lewellen:
I have some kind of topic to chat with you guys about, some
Christina Lewellen:
kind of prompt or question or just chit chat before we get
Christina Lewellen:
into it with our guest. But today I arrived, and my
Christina Lewellen:
understanding as Bill, do you have an order of business. Is
Christina Lewellen:
there something on the agenda, sir, I do. All right,
Bill Stites:
Hiram may not be aware of this. You may know
Bill Stites:
where I'm going to go with this, Christina, but I'm just going
Christina Lewellen:
to bring it up. So I really don't I'm
Christina Lewellen:
clueless. So I was
Bill Stites:
on a recent call with Kristina, and we were on
Bill Stites:
with a few other people, and we were discussing fun and
Bill Stites:
interesting topics, where Christina was talking for quite
Bill Stites:
a while, and we were talking about a get together that we
Bill Stites:
were going to have, and then what we might do, or what one
Bill Stites:
might do with time off. And Hiram, I have to tell you,
Bill Stites:
Christina has been holding out on us, because one of the things
Bill Stites:
that she said she likes to do, be willing to do or want to do.
Christina Lewellen:
I mean, it's pretty fun.
Bill Stites:
Involves Hiram throwing melele weapons. So all
Bill Stites:
this talk about Christina not being into it, or not really
Bill Stites:
being sure what to do when the zombie apocalypse hits,
Bill Stites:
Christina wanted to go AX throwing, yeah, and I said,
Bill Stites:
whoa, whoa, hold on. Wait a minute. You're in the mix of
Bill Stites:
this. You're doing this probably more than Hiram and I are doing.
Bill Stites:
So you have been lying to us all along. Christina, you are a
Bill Stites:
closeted.
Christina Lewellen:
No, there's no closeted. Nothing. Bill,
Christina Lewellen:
because I didn't make a connection. Because zombies are
Christina Lewellen:
fake. What is real is the fact that I almost won this very
Christina Lewellen:
impromptu AX throwing situation on my very first attempt. Like I
Christina Lewellen:
thought we were just going to a networking event. I honestly
Christina Lewellen:
can't even remember what it was, probably an association group.
Christina Lewellen:
And they're like, we're going to go to AX throwing and I'm like,
Christina Lewellen:
great, that's fun. And I showed up and I literally almost won
Christina Lewellen:
this entire thing. And so I don't know that I have a secret
Christina Lewellen:
trick to how this all went. Other than one of the people who
Christina Lewellen:
were teaching us how to do it, he kind of said, hey, it's all
Christina Lewellen:
in the stomp. Like, if you stomp your foot really hard before you
Christina Lewellen:
throw, that's how you can get it. And apparently my dirt throw
Christina Lewellen:
in days came back and I had pretty decent accuracy, so I
Christina Lewellen:
don't know, but I didn't connect this with actually, like,
Christina Lewellen:
chucking it at a zombie. All
Bill Stites:
I'm saying is, in what practical application in
Bill Stites:
your life are you ever going to be throwing an ax at someone and
Bill Stites:
trying to hit a target like very well, like, I'm from New Jersey.
Bill Stites:
I'm a fairly aggressive person, but even I don't think about
Bill Stites:
throwing axes at people only when I'm talking to Hein about
Bill Stites:
the zombie
Hiram Cuevas:
apocalypse. Now, I will say we just had our admin
Hiram Cuevas:
retreat, and the bill podcast dropped the week prior, and our
Hiram Cuevas:
Head of School played the first four and a half minutes to the
Hiram Cuevas:
entire admin team and put Bill's picture holding his birthday
Hiram Cuevas:
mele weapon on the screen, and he said, If this doesn't say
Hiram Cuevas:
boys school and boys learning, nothing else does,
Christina Lewellen:
I really think that, like because of AI
Christina Lewellen:
and the transcripts that accompany these podcasts, we're
Christina Lewellen:
going to start showing up in zombie feeds. And you guys, I
Christina Lewellen:
mean, like, I think that I need to bring some balance to this
Christina Lewellen:
conversation. We need to have a different topic. But yes, I
Christina Lewellen:
might be throwing axes, like, against you guys. I'm just
Christina Lewellen:
saying, like, if we end up doing this as a team building
Christina Lewellen:
initiative, we can record it for the pod. I think I could take
Christina Lewellen:
you on. It could be a fundraising challenge or
Christina Lewellen:
something like that, but I'm thinking the three of us could
Christina Lewellen:
go head to head on the AX throwing. Well, the good
Hiram Cuevas:
news is in the choose your own adventure story
Hiram Cuevas:
that I created. Now we're not saving Christina. Now we're all
Hiram Cuevas:
on an even playing field.
Christina Lewellen:
Maybe I'm saving you guys. You don't know.
Bill Stites:
Ooh, I. Could happen. I think you could. I
Bill Stites:
think you got it
Christina Lewellen:
all right. Let's go back to reality,
Christina Lewellen:
please. For the love of God, here we go. We are. We are
Christina Lewellen:
hosting a podcast today, and we have a poor guest joining us.
Christina Lewellen:
And I say that this poor unfortunate soul, I don't think
Christina Lewellen:
this dude had any idea what he was getting into. But alas, here
Christina Lewellen:
we go. Nate doling, you are joining us. Welcome to the
Christina Lewellen:
podcast. How are you today? Sir, hi. I'm
Nate Doelling:
doing well. Great to be with you guys today. And
Nate Doelling:
zombie apocalypse definitely sounds like something that could
Nate Doelling:
take place in Seoul. So we can arrange that
Christina Lewellen:
that is possible. Yes. Nate is joining
Christina Lewellen:
us today from across the world. You are in Seoul, it's amazing
Christina Lewellen:
what technology can offer. Is a conversation, you know, very
Christina Lewellen:
late in the day for us, very early in the day for you. But
Christina Lewellen:
thank you so much for joining us. I think this is going to be
Christina Lewellen:
really cool. We're going to talk about tech internationally, and
Christina Lewellen:
I think that that's a
Hiram Cuevas:
first for us. Nate, one quick question I gotta
Hiram Cuevas:
ask, have you taken the train to Busan yet?
Nate Doelling:
I have, yeah, the KTX down to Busan. We just had
Nate Doelling:
our spring tech retreat for the Korean tech leaders. It was at
Nate Doelling:
Busan International School. Busan this year one
Bill Stites:
of the best zombie movies ever. Oh, Lord. Okay,
Christina Lewellen:
so we invited you on the podcast
Christina Lewellen:
because you have worked at independent schools, both here
Christina Lewellen:
in the States, but also now you're calling, as we mentioned,
Christina Lewellen:
in from Korea. So why don't you start by telling everybody a
Christina Lewellen:
little bit about yourself and just your professional journey,
Christina Lewellen:
like what landed you in Korea?
Nate Doelling:
Wow, it is a long road through many countries, but
Nate Doelling:
I'll keep it short. Began public schools in Texas, and then I
Nate Doelling:
quickly transitioned into private schools following
Nate Doelling:
teaching careers and sports medicine, which was my original
Nate Doelling:
path. And I ended up in when I was in Massachusetts at the
Nate Doelling:
winchington school, turning the tech hobby at the time into a
Nate Doelling:
computer teaching position. And then that just launched through
Nate Doelling:
independent school connections into a job in Switzerland, where
Nate Doelling:
I was a tech teacher and part time tech team. That led to my
Nate Doelling:
next school in Japan, where I was at the ASIJ in Tokyo, on the
Nate Doelling:
tech team there, and also a tech teacher. And then by that time,
Nate Doelling:
I gained enough experience to get into a coordinator position.
Nate Doelling:
So a startup school in northeast China, opportunity came along,
Nate Doelling:
so I ended up in Shenyang China, where I was the Tech coordinator
Nate Doelling:
for small startup school about three years there, then we came
Nate Doelling:
back to the states to raise the children and landed at
Nate Doelling:
Canterbury School in Fort Wayne, or as the tech director there,
Nate Doelling:
amazing tech team spent eight years there, then Ready for some
Nate Doelling:
international return, came back over to Seoul, South Korea to be
Nate Doelling:
here. I've been here five years now, just finishing up the fifth
Nate Doelling:
year.
Christina Lewellen:
That's pretty incredible. I mean, is
Christina Lewellen:
this something that is kind of in your blood, like, Are you
Christina Lewellen:
kind of a world traveler type person, or is this something
Christina Lewellen:
that you just kind of fell into and then you said, Well, that
Christina Lewellen:
was cool. So let's do another one.
Nate Doelling:
Yeah, yeah. I was not a world traveler before I
Nate Doelling:
got started. I think that first school in Switzerland was
Nate Doelling:
definitely like I came home with culture shock on vacations. But,
Nate Doelling:
you know, after a few years, yeah, you get into it, move into
Nate Doelling:
a new school, the routine, and when you're working overseas,
Nate Doelling:
normally three to four years, if your tech director, maybe five,
Nate Doelling:
you're looking at the next spot to move and explore. You've
Nate Doelling:
traveled the region enough and sampled the food and culture,
Nate Doelling:
and you're ready for a change.
Christina Lewellen:
So now, what is your role now for what
Christina Lewellen:
school, and what does that kind of look like? The reason I ask
Christina Lewellen:
is because at schools, tech director for one school means
Christina Lewellen:
something really different than tech director for another
Christina Lewellen:
school. So what's your role? And what does that encompass?
Nate Doelling:
Yeah, I'm the Director of Technology at Seoul
Nate Doelling:
foreign school. I oversee a local Korean tech team of seven,
Nate Doelling:
and then I have two educational coaches, or digital learning
Nate Doelling:
coaches, that work with me as well serving the Ed Tech needs
Nate Doelling:
of the school. We're a large school. It's 1600 kids, over
Nate Doelling:
1600 kids, so it's the largest one I've been with. We have 185
Nate Doelling:
teaching faculty and over 200 General Affairs staff. So this
Nate Doelling:
is the most devices I've ever worked with. The most complex.
Nate Doelling:
We have four sections of the school, including a British
Nate Doelling:
school that runs elementary school through middle so we're
Nate Doelling:
pretty diverse, and like the US, the job kind of looks different
Nate Doelling:
depending on as people come through international schools,
Nate Doelling:
you tend to have leadership changes a lot more frequently.
Nate Doelling:
So there's a lot of refreshing and vision people bringing in
Nate Doelling:
the experiences and skills from other schools. So we're on our
Nate Doelling:
toes a little bit more, and we don't get settled in as much as
Nate Doelling:
my experience was back in the States, but there's ups and
Nate Doelling:
downs to that and
Christina Lewellen:
benefits. What type of students come to
Christina Lewellen:
your school like? What's the population look like? And my
Christina Lewellen:
other question is, are a lot of the faculty and staff from the
Christina Lewellen:
States and from England, or there are some local folks there
Christina Lewellen:
as well? Yeah.
Nate Doelling:
We are a true international school, worldwide
Nate Doelling:
representation at the school. There's a large portion of the
Nate Doelling:
faculty and students that do come from America, but Europe
Nate Doelling:
would be probably our second largest source of people coming
Nate Doelling:
to the school. Every continent is represented here in our
Nate Doelling:
teaching faculty and to students as well. Most of the long term
Nate Doelling:
operational staff are local Korean, though a large portion
Nate Doelling:
of our student body is Korean or Korean foreign passport
Nate Doelling:
combinations.
Christina Lewellen:
And what does technology sort of look
Christina Lewellen:
like at your school? Is it kind of a tech forward school? Is it
Christina Lewellen:
pretty typical? On average, it's pretty
Nate Doelling:
typical on average, being in Korea, we have
Nate Doelling:
some cool gadgets and stuff fee, as you can imagine, but we're an
Nate Doelling:
older school, over 100 years, over 110 years, so we've been
Nate Doelling:
pretty established, and our mission is really education and
Nate Doelling:
delivering the best we can for our students. First, technology
Nate Doelling:
supports that, but it's not at the forefront. So we focus on
Nate Doelling:
pedagogy and service and International Baccalaureate
Nate Doelling:
program philosophies first, and then how technology can
Nate Doelling:
integrate and support into
Bill Stites:
that. One question that comes to mind is, I think a
Bill Stites:
lot about people that are in the job search and, you know, trying
Bill Stites:
to figure out where I'm going to land next, and I think about all
Bill Stites:
the places I would go to look, but I don't often see a lot of
Bill Stites:
postings for international placements. If I were interested
Bill Stites:
in a tech position internationally, where am I
Bill Stites:
going? Where am I looking? Who am I talking to?
Nate Doelling:
Right? I know what you're talking about. Like
Nate Doelling:
my first start came from Kearney Sandow, and they carry a few
Nate Doelling:
especially the tech director positions. But if you're looking
Nate Doelling:
to go international, you got to step outside the typical loop.
Nate Doelling:
There's two major ones. The first is search associates. You
Nate Doelling:
establish basically like Carney Sandow, a portfolio with them.
Nate Doelling:
You get your confidential references uploaded, give them
Nate Doelling:
your application details. The other one is shroll, which just
Nate Doelling:
merged with ISS. So those two big agencies, you get a profile
Nate Doelling:
with them, then you get access to the job board, then you just
Nate Doelling:
start indicating your interest in positions, and if you match
Nate Doelling:
with a school, they'll reach out. That's pretty cool.
Christina Lewellen:
You're a co founder of something called K
Christina Lewellen:
tech group. What's that all
Christina Lewellen:
about?
Nate Doelling:
So when I landed in Korea, obviously, you're in
Nate Doelling:
your own little bubble with your own school, and there's all
Nate Doelling:
these international schools, especially in Seoul, so you want
Nate Doelling:
to get connected? And I just sent an email out to one of my
Nate Doelling:
colleagues over at Yongsan International School, which is
Nate Doelling:
near the military base here in Seoul, and said, Do you want to
Nate Doelling:
start meeting at lunch over Google meet? And this was during
Nate Doelling:
the pandemic, so we were all pretty isolated from each other,
Nate Doelling:
so we had Google meets at lunch once a week, and we said, hey,
Nate Doelling:
this would be great if we can get some more people into it.
Nate Doelling:
Let's just start emailing the other schools. And we quickly
Nate Doelling:
grew. We're over 10 member schools now. We meet once a
Nate Doelling:
month online, and then we have an annual meetup in person in
Nate Doelling:
the fall at the Google headquarters, which is
Nate Doelling:
facilitated by one of our vendors, among for the Google
Nate Doelling:
products, apps, events, and after that meeting, we meet up
Nate Doelling:
again in the spring and do a job alike. We bring our local staff
Nate Doelling:
along with us, our digital learning coaches, and we get
Nate Doelling:
together and we have round tables. Vendors will call in and
Nate Doelling:
give us a presentation. What's new? Cool features when we have
Nate Doelling:
social time. I
Christina Lewellen:
mean, that sounds like a tech director type
Christina Lewellen:
gathering, if ever I heard of one, sounds very familiar. So
Christina Lewellen:
let's go back to what Bill was just talking about. You know,
Christina Lewellen:
you told us a little bit about how to kind of find your way
Christina Lewellen:
into the international tech leadership scene. But that is a
Christina Lewellen:
lot more complicated. I mean, I thought that it was kind of
Christina Lewellen:
crazy that tech directors often have to uproot their families
Christina Lewellen:
and move a few states away, let alone on the other side of the
Christina Lewellen:
world, and there's all these time differences and all of
Christina Lewellen:
that. So tell us what that part of the experience has been like
Christina Lewellen:
for you in terms of uprooting your life and going far far away
Christina Lewellen:
to do this role
Nate Doelling:
the first time is tough. You're sitting on the
Nate Doelling:
edge of the cliff, deciding if you want to jump, and by jump I
Nate Doelling:
mean selling all your possessions or moving them into
Nate Doelling:
storage, selling your house, or learning how to manage
Nate Doelling:
properties, or hire a property manager for you, having that
Nate Doelling:
discussion with your family. Hey, we're moving the grandkids
Nate Doelling:
and ourselves more than 1000 miles away. It's tough. You're
Nate Doelling:
either in a position, economically or with your
Nate Doelling:
family, that you're able to do it, or you're not, and if you
Nate Doelling:
are, you know that first one's scary once you do it, and you
Nate Doelling:
get through all the hurdles of getting passports and visas and
Nate Doelling:
movers and travel arrangements and landing in a country where
Nate Doelling:
you don't speak the language, once you overcome that and do
Nate Doelling:
it, once you're equipped, your kids are equipped, your spouse
Nate Doelling:
knows kind of what to do. That makes future ones easy. Boy,
Nate Doelling:
every different school that you walk into, it's kind of an
Nate Doelling:
unknown, like you're lucky if you get to visit a school when
Nate Doelling:
you're hiring internationally, most of the interviews that. To
Nate Doelling:
be conducted at job fairs, and there still are job fairs where
Nate Doelling:
you would go. You'd meet the school for 10 minutes to decide
Nate Doelling:
if they like you. Maybe you'd have some follow up
Nate Doelling:
conversations. Maybe they'd offer you a contract on the
Nate Doelling:
spot, and then that would be the basis you have to make your
Nate Doelling:
decision for the senior tech leadership positions at the
Nate Doelling:
larger schools. Several of them will fly you in and do an on
Nate Doelling:
campus interview with other candidates, so you get a better
Nate Doelling:
chance to know what you're joining on with. But yeah, it's
Nate Doelling:
kind of like the world your oyster, but you had kind of a
Nate Doelling:
blindfold on, yeah?
Christina Lewellen:
I mean, it's taking a leap of faith for sure.
Christina Lewellen:
Like guys, if you were to do it, if you were to take an
Christina Lewellen:
international tech job, do you have any countries or parts of
Christina Lewellen:
the world that you would say, Yeah, I'd give that a try. Hiram
Christina Lewellen:
has a language advantage. Yeah. So
Hiram Cuevas:
it's interesting you say that I went to a
Hiram Cuevas:
conference at shabby Luther school, American School of
Hiram Cuevas:
Bombay in India, and spent 10 days there, and was talking to a
Hiram Cuevas:
lot of different faculty members about what it's like teaching in
Hiram Cuevas:
the American school system internationally, because that
Hiram Cuevas:
conference, because it was located in India, brought in
Hiram Cuevas:
Singapore American and it brought in a bunch of schools
Hiram Cuevas:
from that particular area. And you are your own support system
Hiram Cuevas:
as well. My wife and I have talked about making that leap.
Hiram Cuevas:
We just haven't dared to do it yet. I give you credit. You've
Hiram Cuevas:
made the plunge. We've been toying with the idea. Now we
Hiram Cuevas:
have a daughter who's just gotten married and living in
Hiram Cuevas:
town, and so we're trying to figure all this out. You know
Hiram Cuevas:
what next steps would look like? But it is definitely intriguing.
Hiram Cuevas:
I have been really surprised not only about how good the schools
Hiram Cuevas:
are, but some of the amenities as a teacher in these schools
Hiram Cuevas:
are quite impressive.
Bill Stites:
It's funny, my wife teaches a foreign language. She
Bill Stites:
teaches Spanish, and we'd love to travel. For me, it's a
Bill Stites:
question of, you know, being in a country where you are a non
Bill Stites:
native speaker, and where you may or may not actually know the
Bill Stites:
language, and what that challenge is like, and being
Bill Stites:
open to that type of experience, I think, is very interesting. I
Bill Stites:
thought more and more about it recently, after my son graduated
Bill Stites:
from school and he spent a semester abroad, and really how
Bill Stites:
much he learned and grew by traveling around Europe on his
Bill Stites:
own, and what that really did for him, and thinking about what
Bill Stites:
that would be like on a larger scale. So I'm curious as to how
Bill Stites:
the language issue works. But the other question I actually
Bill Stites:
have as I'm thinking about this is when you take on a job like
Bill Stites:
this in a foreign country, I signed a year to year contract.
Bill Stites:
One of my colleagues spent time in Saudi Arabia, and he had to
Bill Stites:
sign a two year contract. You know, I've talked to others who
Bill Stites:
have to sign different types of contracts based on the amount of
Bill Stites:
time that they want you there. You know, we mentioned some of
Bill Stites:
the benefits that you get, you know, if they're going to help
Bill Stites:
you move there is there an expectation that you're going to
Bill Stites:
stay there for a certain amount of time? So the language is one
Bill Stites:
thing. How have you dealt with that? And then, what is that
Bill Stites:
like from the expectation of your time in the position, and
Bill Stites:
what does that look like, and how's that been throughout your
Bill Stites:
career?
Nate Doelling:
So language is not one of my strengths. French
Nate Doelling:
was the language I took in school. It was very helpful when
Nate Doelling:
I was in Switzerland and when I visited back but that is pretty
Nate Doelling:
much the only language that I've managed to acquire when you're
Nate Doelling:
working in a school, if you're great at languages, people will
Nate Doelling:
dive into opportunities like taking courses, often teachers
Nate Doelling:
the language teachers at a school will offer courses to new
Nate Doelling:
faculty coming in. You'll find opportunities in the community
Nate Doelling:
to learn. There's usually some kind of English exchange group
Nate Doelling:
that was really popular when I was in China, where locals want
Nate Doelling:
to meet with the foreigners teaching in language schools, or
Nate Doelling:
English learning schools. So they'll have social
Nate Doelling:
opportunities just where they can come and speak English with
Nate Doelling:
you and teach you and teach you a little bit of the local
Nate Doelling:
language. But when you're at an international school, it's
Nate Doelling:
pretty much a bubble. You're in an English bubble all day. It
Nate Doelling:
can be a challenge to work with some of the local colleagues, so
Nate Doelling:
you tend to leverage a little bit of translation, whether it's
Nate Doelling:
technology, which has been amazing the way some of these
Nate Doelling:
translation tools have come forward to help us. I use
Nate Doelling:
Microsoft Translator just to understand sometimes what's
Nate Doelling:
going on in a meeting where I'm the only foreigner in a meeting
Nate Doelling:
and conversations start happening between people. So you
Nate Doelling:
can use tools, you can use translators, but that works
Nate Doelling:
great for you, the person working in the school, or your
Nate Doelling:
kids who are in the school, it can be a struggle for your
Nate Doelling:
spouse, especially if your spouse is what we call a
Nate Doelling:
trailing spouse. They're not working for the school. So
Nate Doelling:
there's a, usually an equal balance of teaching couples and
Nate Doelling:
non teaching couples. And for the non teaching couples, yeah,
Nate Doelling:
the spouse is the one that's going to have to be going out
Nate Doelling:
into the market and shopping and. The first time you walk
Nate Doelling:
into a store and you cannot read anything in the store, you're
Nate Doelling:
just going off the visual cues of what stuff is. Is this bleach
Nate Doelling:
or vinegar? You're looking at the bottle it cleans, but you
Nate Doelling:
don't really know. So pulling out Google Translate and live
Nate Doelling:
scanning essential, essential
Christina Lewellen:
for survival, thank goodness for
Christina Lewellen:
technology, right? Yeah,
Nate Doelling:
it's really made it easier compared to when I
Nate Doelling:
started, for sure, when none of these tools existed on your
Nate Doelling:
smartphone in your hands. So that's the language piece. If
Nate Doelling:
you're great at languages, the more power to you, and I'm
Nate Doelling:
jealous of you. But that was not for me. Okay? So just like the
Nate Doelling:
benefits, the contract terms per school run the gamut and vary.
Nate Doelling:
Some of that's determined by visas. For example, I can share
Nate Doelling:
like Korea, your first contract is two years, because your first
Nate Doelling:
visa can be for two years, and then after that, it's an annual
Nate Doelling:
renewal under the visa type that we're on here. I've seen other
Nate Doelling:
schools, if you're a senior tech leader, they'll want you to come
Nate Doelling:
and stay three years, so they'll give you a three year contract
Nate Doelling:
at a time, and so save enough time to plan for transitions,
Nate Doelling:
renewals can then get shorter after that.
Hiram Cuevas:
So Nate, I find that really interesting, because
Hiram Cuevas:
the life cycle of tech is so short, and you really want to
Hiram Cuevas:
try and forecast things, 567, years out. Having a two year
Hiram Cuevas:
life cycle, or potentially a three year life cycle, seems
Hiram Cuevas:
really punctuated for a tech leader to try and provide the
Hiram Cuevas:
school what it needs to future proof it,
Nate Doelling:
yeah, it's not different than other academic
Nate Doelling:
management positions throughout the school, whether they're
Nate Doelling:
curriculum coordinators or vice principals. We all work off of
Nate Doelling:
five year plans, just like back in the States, you'll either be
Nate Doelling:
coming in and inheriting one, which is always fun. We all
Nate Doelling:
bring different skills to the job, different philosophies of
Nate Doelling:
what's the priorities. So you'll either inherit one, or you'll
Nate Doelling:
maybe get lucky and you'll come in and they'll either ask you to
Nate Doelling:
change directions and start something fresh, or the previous
Nate Doelling:
one has run its course and it's just time for you to chart a new
Nate Doelling:
one for the future. A lot of times, the infrastructure stuff
Nate Doelling:
tends to stick your plans for the future in that area, the
Nate Doelling:
local staff will carry those on. The future, director will carry
Nate Doelling:
those on. But some of the more transient stuff, curriculum
Nate Doelling:
plans, educational platforms and tools that can be pretty
Nate Doelling:
transient and subject to change, so that can be a great
Nate Doelling:
opportunity to learn something new. Can also be a lot of stress
Nate Doelling:
to step in the door of a place that you're not familiar with
Nate Doelling:
and launch something new.
Christina Lewellen:
What I find interesting Nate is that, you
Christina Lewellen:
know, we'll put a link in the show notes, and if our listeners
Christina Lewellen:
went to Seoul foreign Schools website, this school could just
Christina Lewellen:
as easily be somewhere in the States, right down to the
Christina Lewellen:
sports. You know, you go to extracurriculars, and the
Christina Lewellen:
academic is similar. The athletics is similar. There's
Christina Lewellen:
not a whole lot here that would, at a quick glance, say, oh,
Christina Lewellen:
that's in Korea. So I guess one of my questions is around what
Christina Lewellen:
the challenges are that are kind of unique, maybe also the
Christina Lewellen:
opportunities, right? So, like, you're leading ed tech in this
Christina Lewellen:
international setting, but in a lot of ways, it does mirror a US
Christina Lewellen:
or a North American school, and so I'm just kind of curious
Christina Lewellen:
about the pieces of that that are unique.
Nate Doelling:
When you step into an international school,
Nate Doelling:
your first kind of shock will come into the systems and
Nate Doelling:
hardware that you're used to being available to you, maybe
Nate Doelling:
that you've become accustomed to in the States. When you land in
Nate Doelling:
this country, the equipment may not be certified. The software
Nate Doelling:
seller may not do international deals. I had some favorite
Nate Doelling:
pieces of software from America through amplified it before they
Nate Doelling:
got bought out, the gopher tools, the goops Gopher, the
Nate Doelling:
Google Gopher, came over to Korea, and then after a year of
Nate Doelling:
being here, they stopped selling them internationally. They
Nate Doelling:
closed down that market, and you've grown accustomed. That's
Nate Doelling:
how you manage your Google Classroom turnover every year.
Nate Doelling:
That's how you manage all the settings for your several 100
Nate Doelling:
Google Groups. You learn to pivot. You learn to find
Nate Doelling:
something new. In our case, I learned how to do App Script and
Nate Doelling:
develop apps script for Google Sheets to manage my Google
Nate Doelling:
Groups, to kind of replace that functionality locally. So
Nate Doelling:
there'll be software challenges, there'll be vendors. Maybe
Nate Doelling:
you're used to in the States, you're used to working through
Nate Doelling:
somebody big, like CDW to order things, but when you get into a
Nate Doelling:
country like China, everything's on the local level. You
Nate Doelling:
literally go to the electronics market and there's 20 booths
Nate Doelling:
where they sell Lenovo computers. And you're walking up
Nate Doelling:
to one, and you have your model that you want, you're asking,
Nate Doelling:
what's the price from you? And then you go to the next guy,
Nate Doelling:
what's the price from you? And you're really hands on, dealing
Nate Doelling:
in cash to buy laptops for your school and arrange for 100 200
Nate Doelling:
to be to. Deliver tomorrow to you out at the school. So it's
Nate Doelling:
things like that. Also dealing with local staff, you can be
Nate Doelling:
really lucky and have many people on your team that are
Nate Doelling:
strong in English. They've learned two languages, and
Nate Doelling:
they're amazing at it in if you've got them on your team,
Nate Doelling:
the amount of collaboration you can do, an understanding of
Nate Doelling:
local systems, and how involved you can be in the infrastructure
Nate Doelling:
and stuff with the school will vary with a school that you may
Nate Doelling:
not have such a staff that's diverse with their language
Nate Doelling:
skills, and so you may not be able to communicate as strongly
Nate Doelling:
with your team, especially in technical language. So the
Nate Doelling:
environments are pretty diverse that you walk into, and you
Nate Doelling:
really have to be flexible and adjust to that and be
Nate Doelling:
comfortable with not knowing every piece of the network, not
Nate Doelling:
knowing how to get into your hypervisor, to manage your VMs,
Nate Doelling:
or be very involved in network settings if you're very hands
Nate Doelling:
on,
Christina Lewellen:
it's crazy. I mean, guys, can you imagine,
Christina Lewellen:
like, even just walking up into a Best Buy, and like buying all
Christina Lewellen:
your computers in cash for the school year, that's crazy.
Bill Stites:
I usually roll with that kind of money in my pocket,
Bill Stites:
so it's not really a problem.
Christina Lewellen:
I don't think you do if you do then you
Christina Lewellen:
better be betting it during our AX throwing expedition.
Bill Stites:
Then one of the questions I actually have so you
Bill Stites:
mentioned a lot of the hardware and some of the software tools
Bill Stites:
that you're using, you know, like, I've been spending a lot
Bill Stites:
of time working with schools using their various sis systems.
Bill Stites:
And are you using American based sis systems there? And then to
Bill Stites:
the second part of that question, if you are, do you
Bill Stites:
have any localization issues that you run into when you're
Bill Stites:
trying to use them. Or because maybe you're on a US based
Bill Stites:
curriculum and you're pretty aligned with US based schools do
Bill Stites:
things just seem to fit and work. Or do you have those old
Bill Stites:
issues of we say this, you say that we needed to say this to
Bill Stites:
make sense to the people here?
Nate Doelling:
Yeah, fortunately, most international
Nate Doelling:
schools do rely on platforms that we're familiar with working
Nate Doelling:
out of the states. We're a Power School. Been a Power School for
Nate Doelling:
a long time, but when we transitioned away from the
Nate Doelling:
American curriculum and opened the British school and British
Nate Doelling:
curriculum and went to IB, we needed an additional platform
Nate Doelling:
beyond Power School, because Power School was our SIS and
Nate Doelling:
LMS. So a lot of the international schools, they
Nate Doelling:
either are running something called Toddle, if you're
Nate Doelling:
familiar with that, the Toddle app, or manage back. So we had
Nate Doelling:
switched to manage back just five years ago, the previous
Nate Doelling:
tech director before me, and we rolled that out so that supports
Nate Doelling:
our IB curriculum, because that's pretty unique, and it's
Nate Doelling:
not as popular in the States. A lot of the add ons to that
Nate Doelling:
program that you need in an SIS to track, like the service hours
Nate Doelling:
and the special courses that falls outside of something like
Nate Doelling:
power school that would develop. So you add that on top, we have
Nate Doelling:
Google Classroom for supporting collaboration and work within
Nate Doelling:
the Google Suite. We run seesaw for our elementary school years
Nate Doelling:
for the portfolio and messaging and sharing of work. So it's a
Nate Doelling:
lot of the same tools. Localizations can be an issue.
Nate Doelling:
We're transitioning to the Oliver library system from
Nate Doelling:
Follett, and when we imported all of our Korean book titles,
Nate Doelling:
they didn't transfer. They didn't, apparently, use UTF for
Nate Doelling:
the import of the information. So all of our titles were in
Nate Doelling:
strange ASCII code characters. And yeah, you have to go back
Nate Doelling:
and say, remember, we're in Korea. So do you support
Nate Doelling:
international language for this product that we just bought? And
Nate Doelling:
yeah, fortunately, they do, but it was just overlooked in the
Nate Doelling:
Settings Configuration. So you run into that, but a lot of the
Nate Doelling:
times, you'll have to develop something custom, especially if
Nate Doelling:
you need something for your school, like dual currency
Nate Doelling:
support, something we don't even think about in America. But when
Nate Doelling:
we're overseas, here in Korea, we take tuition in as dollars,
Nate Doelling:
and we take tuition in as Korean won, and we spend in both as we
Nate Doelling:
send overseas to pay our software license bills, and then
Nate Doelling:
we pay locally for hardware and software here. So you need an
Nate Doelling:
accounting system that can do that. We've been using financial
Nate Doelling:
edge from Blackbaud, and that supported the dual currencies.
Nate Doelling:
And when we went to the next product, we ended up having to
Nate Doelling:
build something custom with Oracle to be able to support
Nate Doelling:
that, because there just wasn't. It's not a thing for a lot of
Nate Doelling:
American platforms.
Christina Lewellen:
It's really interesting. I mean, there's
Christina Lewellen:
those considerations on the tech side, but let's go to now the
Christina Lewellen:
teaching side. I guess where we should start is, what are the
Christina Lewellen:
students like compared to your experience with students in the
Christina Lewellen:
states are kids, kids, no matter where they are.
Nate Doelling:
Yeah, it's the same. You're walking down the
Nate Doelling:
hallway, you wouldn't notice a difference when you're here
Nate Doelling:
versus in America, the work you're seeing on the walls, the
Nate Doelling:
conversations you're hearing in the hallways, depending on the
Nate Doelling:
school, they might be more in the. Local language, or be in
Nate Doelling:
English. The kids that are going to a private international
Nate Doelling:
school are typically very motivated, and they can be
Nate Doelling:
advantaged, so you might see different levels in performance
Nate Doelling:
compared to the states in terms of the balance of your the
Nate Doelling:
demographics of your students. A lot of the international schools
Nate Doelling:
don't offer scholarship programs, so there doesn't bring
Nate Doelling:
that diversity into the mix. But as you mentioned, you look at
Nate Doelling:
the website, you see the kids, you see the classes, you see
Nate Doelling:
what we're doing, the experience is pretty much going to be the
Nate Doelling:
same. So someone could leave from this school and go to a
Nate Doelling:
school in America, and it wouldn't be a shock or large
Nate Doelling:
transition for them. They'd walk into school and they'd be
Nate Doelling:
comfortable, they'd feel like home. And what
Christina Lewellen:
about the teachers? So the faculty, you
Christina Lewellen:
said, it's a pretty diverse mix of teachers from different
Christina Lewellen:
areas, probably all over the globe, right? But my question on
Christina Lewellen:
the faculty side is, you know, we're dealing with a lot of
Christina Lewellen:
retention issues in the States. We're dealing with a lot of
Christina Lewellen:
stress and burnout issues. I don't think that teaching is as
Christina Lewellen:
highly respected as it may have been in previous generations.
Christina Lewellen:
And so our teachers are struggling. Do you see similar
Christina Lewellen:
challenges among the faculty? There
Nate Doelling:
no in the international scene, it's pretty
Nate Doelling:
competitive. And as teachers are moving around, just like we do
Nate Doelling:
sometimes for new opportunities, teachers do as well. So teachers
Nate Doelling:
may come in for just two or three years because they wanted
Nate Doelling:
to experience the country and the region, and then they're
Nate Doelling:
moving on. Some may stay 2030 years, if they're happy at the
Nate Doelling:
school. There's a lot of transition among the teachers.
Nate Doelling:
You have people bringing in their curriculum and
Nate Doelling:
preferences. They're asking for new tools all the time, so it
Nate Doelling:
really keeps our education integration technology team
Nate Doelling:
busy, and they're constantly getting exposed to new ideas and
Nate Doelling:
supporting people to grow and learn. Our systems. Professional
Nate Doelling:
Development is just as important as in the States, but it's more
Nate Doelling:
on the school to provide, obviously, because there's not
Nate Doelling:
the local workshops and connections that you might have
Nate Doelling:
from the education agencies or state sponsored education
Nate Doelling:
agencies back home,
Christina Lewellen:
I think that's really interesting. So
Christina Lewellen:
you have kind of a rotating door, right? Not in a bad way,
Christina Lewellen:
but just like there's a lot of transition, some folks are in
Christina Lewellen:
and out again, depending on visas for a limited amount of
Christina Lewellen:
time, and that brings with it ideas and energy, which, again,
Christina Lewellen:
is probably a lot for your tech team, but it also probably keeps
Christina Lewellen:
it from getting a little too stale, or it's not like they're
Christina Lewellen:
not willing to try new things if they're going to move to a
Christina Lewellen:
different country, then I doubt they're fussing over a change in
Christina Lewellen:
technology. And so that's kind of cool. Has AI been embraced by
Christina Lewellen:
your faculty? And how are you guys using that at your school?
Nate Doelling:
Absolutely, it hit us the same. You know, we
Nate Doelling:
woke up in November to the news a couple years ago, and life
Nate Doelling:
changed on a dime, suddenly, something we hadn't anticipated
Nate Doelling:
and planned for, just like everybody else was here. And are
Nate Doelling:
we going to use it? Are we going to support it? We took a very
Nate Doelling:
conservative approach in the beginning and took our time
Nate Doelling:
watching what other schools were doing in the region, learning
Nate Doelling:
from like Warren Apple over at ASIJ, and the work that they
Nate Doelling:
were doing to develop their AI policy and frameworks. And
Nate Doelling:
everybody was talking just like in the States, about how we're
Nate Doelling:
exploring different tools and how we're using them
Nate Doelling:
internationally, you'll have the same exposure to laws and
Nate Doelling:
regulations, and so you kind of have to keep in touch with the
Nate Doelling:
situation in your country and what they're allowing for Korea
Nate Doelling:
operates off of a slightly different age system, of 14,
Nate Doelling:
which can be challenging, but also beneficial. That definitely
Nate Doelling:
means for our high school that pretty much none of our middle
Nate Doelling:
school students can qualify to use apps that are restricted to
Nate Doelling:
14 and over, but all of our high school can't. So that works out
Nate Doelling:
for us. AI, we recently launched a program sponsored by our
Nate Doelling:
senior leadership team and human resources department to allow
Nate Doelling:
teachers to explore individual tools subscriptions with their
Nate Doelling:
professional development funds. So that's bringing in a lot of
Nate Doelling:
new ideas, introducing platforms like brisk bringing that to the
Nate Doelling:
forefront and awareness of our technology team. So that's a
Nate Doelling:
program that we piloted this spring with over 50 teachers
Nate Doelling:
looking at the brisk schools plan, and we're finding that
Nate Doelling:
it's really benefiting the teachers in the areas of
Nate Doelling:
feedback, especially when it's integrated with a Google Suite,
Nate Doelling:
when they can make a Google classroom assignment, and then a
Nate Doelling:
tool can just go in and access the document and then identify
Nate Doelling:
areas for the teacher to highlight, for commenting and
Nate Doelling:
further refinement, but also allow the student to have a
Nate Doelling:
writing coach when they're going In before they even submit that
Nate Doelling:
they can get not rewrite suggestions, but just the
Nate Doelling:
feedback. Like you could revise this paragraph for more clarity,
Nate Doelling:
or you mentioned that this was an objective or goal of this
Nate Doelling:
section, but you didn't really provide evidence to support
Nate Doelling:
that, and that's been really exciting. Also, activities like
Nate Doelling:
book. Just the chat bot stuff school, AI magic school also has
Nate Doelling:
tools like that, right the chat bot, where the teacher can load
Nate Doelling:
up the YouTube video and the student watches it, and then the
Nate Doelling:
chat bot can check for understanding, and it's
Nate Doelling:
flexible, and it levels to the student, and can go beyond what
Nate Doelling:
we used to just do, like answer this multiple choice question,
Nate Doelling:
and you either got it right or wrong, but it goes in and asks,
Nate Doelling:
you know, yeah, you're on the right track. But let me change
Nate Doelling:
your thought. Have you thought about this and really love what
Nate Doelling:
we're seeing with that functionality? It's interesting
Hiram Cuevas:
talking about all these different tools. And Bill
Hiram Cuevas:
and I kind of been going back and forth in the chat. He
Hiram Cuevas:
mentioned GDPR. I'm thinking about some of the you mentioned
Hiram Cuevas:
the age difference, or restriction for Korean school
Hiram Cuevas:
being the age of 14. Here in the States, it's 13 with COPPA. So
Hiram Cuevas:
do you utilize a company called Nine to help with some of the
Hiram Cuevas:
vetting of applications? To help you understand? Is there a
Hiram Cuevas:
clearing house in Korea that would help with terms of
Hiram Cuevas:
service, because I imagine you're dealing with not only
Hiram Cuevas:
local but you've got GDPR, you've got to worry about, and
Hiram Cuevas:
perhaps other national standards and legislation that limits what
Hiram Cuevas:
you can and cannot do with your students.
Nate Doelling:
Yeah, I'm thankful for nine I love their
Nate Doelling:
workshops. We're not a current partner with them, but we've
Nate Doelling:
definitely engaged with them and the service that they're
Nate Doelling:
offering, especially if you're a European School for GDPR
Nate Doelling:
tracking and the vetting of the apps, especially with the new AI
Nate Doelling:
regulations, really helpful. They're a valuable partner the
Nate Doelling:
clearing houses in America. I wish I had access to those that
Nate Doelling:
would be a great resource as well. Create doesn't have that
Nate Doelling:
clearing house yet. We do have PIPA, which has a memorandum of
Nate Doelling:
understanding with GDPR, so the terms and expectations for
Nate Doelling:
privacy management and protection are very similar, if
Nate Doelling:
not the same. We rely a lot on our local risk manager who
Nate Doelling:
communicates with the legal team available to the school. We do a
Nate Doelling:
lot of checking for not only is this in compliance with national
Nate Doelling:
regulations, but the local Ministry of Education has its
Nate Doelling:
own guidelines for school as well. Sometimes they can be more
Nate Doelling:
flexible, sometimes they can be more strict. So having someone
Nate Doelling:
in your school who can communicate locally is a big
Nate Doelling:
benefit to helping you do your job. But like every school, a
Nate Doelling:
lot of this does fall on the tech director or someone on the
Nate Doelling:
tech team to kind of keep up with and update your privacy
Nate Doelling:
policies and your consent forms to make sure that you are
Nate Doelling:
specifying your retention periods and everything, and that
Nate Doelling:
you're upholding them as well. So there's resources out there.
Nate Doelling:
A lot of them tend to be more global. You're really lucky if
Nate Doelling:
you've got something in your country that you can directly
Nate Doelling:
work with.
Christina Lewellen:
Sounds like it adds a whole nother layer to
Christina Lewellen:
what you guys are dealing with. Bill and Hiram here in the
Christina Lewellen:
States. It's like got to figure it out on the ground, on your
Christina Lewellen:
own. What do you have Nate that keeps you tapped into
Christina Lewellen:
professional development opportunities for you, Where do
Christina Lewellen:
you stay in the loop on some of these issues as an overseas
Christina Lewellen:
international tech director.
Nate Doelling:
So thankfully, I had connected with Atlas back
Nate Doelling:
when I was at Canterbury school, and Ashley over there, and I had
Nate Doelling:
gone to an atlas conference back when I was in Dallas, and
Nate Doelling:
realized that this was going to be an organization that would
Nate Doelling:
help me grow and so I've kept that connection. I still get the
Nate Doelling:
newsletters. In fact, I unsubscribed at one point. I've
Nate Doelling:
resubscribed this year, connected again. So a lot of the
Nate Doelling:
workshops I've attended, a few of them thankfully offered
Nate Doelling:
online asynchronously, so I can attend those through Atlas.
Nate Doelling:
Other organizations like international school services.
Nate Doelling:
ISS will sponsor workshops a lot of the major vendors, like Power
Nate Doelling:
School will offer, in addition to the in states training that
Nate Doelling:
we sometimes attend in the summers, they'll have regional
Nate Doelling:
collaboratives and workshops available. So you'll be able to
Nate Doelling:
go to something in the Asian region for a power school group
Nate Doelling:
to learn about new features and to get training. So you really
Nate Doelling:
learn to connect with regional education groups like iricos
Nate Doelling:
over here in Asia, there's a similar group of Council of
Nate Doelling:
international schools in Europe, and you just really monitor what
Nate Doelling:
opportunities are available for you online, and try to get into
Nate Doelling:
as
Hiram Cuevas:
much as you can when you come to a
Bill Stites:
new country and you come to a new school, what are
Bill Stites:
the types of things, whether they're your habits, your
Bill Stites:
beliefs, your mindsets that need to shift? Have there been many
Bill Stites:
of those. You know, I used to do it this way, or I used to
Bill Stites:
interact with people this way. But here it's a different
Bill Stites:
culture, it's a different mindset, so I've got to adjust
Bill Stites:
and pivot. Have there been many moments where you've had to do
Bill Stites:
that?
Nate Doelling:
You must be a flexible person, obviously, to
Nate Doelling:
work in international schools, mindset skills? Those job roles,
Nate Doelling:
expectations, living standards you can't be set in your ways.
Nate Doelling:
When you walk into a school, you're going to be like in the
Nate Doelling:
States, you're going to be drinking from the fire hose, but
Nate Doelling:
it's a much bigger fire hose, because it's how do you get
Nate Doelling:
banking? How do you get a cell phone plan? How do you shop for
Nate Doelling:
food. How do you get deliveries? How do you even get around town?
Nate Doelling:
Where are things you can't go on Google and search for things as
Nate Doelling:
easily as you do in the stitch you're looking for a donut shop.
Nate Doelling:
Maybe you need to learn the Korean word for donut first and
Nate Doelling:
see if you pop that in into the local maps tool, which is also
Nate Doelling:
going to be in Korean, probably not an English interface. Does
Nate Doelling:
that pop up? So you got to take things in stride, be flexible,
Nate Doelling:
always adapting, whether it's something in professional life
Nate Doelling:
or personal life, and embracing that challenge. And I think all
Nate Doelling:
of us in tech do embrace challenge and new things. So I
Nate Doelling:
think we're a little more successful in terms of
Nate Doelling:
integrating than other people can be. You also have to
Nate Doelling:
understand that it's very typical to say things like,
Nate Doelling:
well, in my last school, we did this, or I'm used to running it
Nate Doelling:
this way, because it worked at my last school. And everybody
Nate Doelling:
can say that in an international school and with 10 to 15%
Nate Doelling:
average turnover in a school, everybody's always coming in
Nate Doelling:
with new things and experiences. So you learn to roll with it,
Nate Doelling:
and it's refreshing, and you take that and you're just open
Nate Doelling:
to considering doing something different. And so before you
Nate Doelling:
say, Well, this is how I used to do it, you listen to what people
Nate Doelling:
are saying and look at a situation, and your answer is,
Nate Doelling:
what's the best solution to that problem at this school first,
Nate Doelling:
before you start thinking how you might have done it in the
Nate Doelling:
past.
Christina Lewellen:
So do you have a favorite country that
Christina Lewellen:
you've worked in? And do you have a wish list or a bucket
Christina Lewellen:
list of a country that you'd like to go to? I've
Nate Doelling:
been really fortunate to span what three
Nate Doelling:
continents in my career, I would like to get down to South
Nate Doelling:
America one day. To add that to my list favorite country, I'd
Nate Doelling:
have to give it to Japan. I had an amazing experience while I
Nate Doelling:
was in Japan my two years in Tokyo. Love the country. All of
Nate Doelling:
my experiences have been great. We love going back to visit the
Nate Doelling:
schools, the people, the faculty that are still at those schools.
Nate Doelling:
Years later, decades later, we just went to Switzerland for
Nate Doelling:
Christmas and met up with my colleagues over the Christmas
Nate Doelling:
break, more than 10 colleagues living in the town that we met
Nate Doelling:
up with and celebrated birthdays and New Year with, took my kids
Nate Doelling:
skiing on the same mountain that I learned to ski at the school.
Nate Doelling:
It's amazing. That's all I can say about it.
Christina Lewellen:
That's really cool. I mean, you're
Christina Lewellen:
inspiring. I'm sure that there are people listening who are
Christina Lewellen:
like, I guess I could do it. One of my four daughters, Nate,
Christina Lewellen:
speaks a lot of languages. She speaks Spanish, Japanese,
Christina Lewellen:
Chinese and a little bit of Korean. So I think that she's
Christina Lewellen:
going to be very jealous. She's not a tech leader, but she is
Christina Lewellen:
one who can pick up those languages really quickly. And so
Christina Lewellen:
I, as her mother, hope that she does not decide to go live in
Christina Lewellen:
Korea, but I could also see it happening. But you're inspiring.
Christina Lewellen:
I mean, you make it seem like it's cool and fun and easy.
Nate Doelling:
I'm glad to make it sound easy, because sometimes
Nate Doelling:
you think is not. There's a lot of stress to the job. But like
Nate Doelling:
you said, one of the reasons I do it, we do it as a family, is
Nate Doelling:
for the kids. You know, in addition to yourself, the aspect
Nate Doelling:
you get on life and people in the world, just by living
Nate Doelling:
outside the country and working outside the country for a year,
Nate Doelling:
two years, you know, you can go a couple years, keeping your
Nate Doelling:
house in the States, being away from your family, just to get
Nate Doelling:
out, to get the experience for a couple years. And you don't need
Nate Doelling:
to take all your stuff with you. You don't need to uproot your
Nate Doelling:
life. You can do a temporary thing, call it a sabbatical. Go
Nate Doelling:
live abroad. Take your kids abroad, because when you see
Nate Doelling:
your kids, my kids started in school in the States, obviously,
Nate Doelling:
and you see them grow when they come and get exposed to these
Nate Doelling:
people from around the world and all their ideas and languages,
Nate Doelling:
foods, cultures, religions and all walks of life in the school,
Nate Doelling:
they really have such a global perspective, and they realize
Nate Doelling:
that we're all the same. The borders don't really matter.
Nate Doelling:
They're just opportunities to try something different. You
Nate Doelling:
hear your kids speaking differently and thinking
Nate Doelling:
differently, and you know that when they go off to college in
Nate Doelling:
the workforce and they start encountering people that are not
Nate Doelling:
of the same background, the same ideas, from the same region,
Nate Doelling:
same countries, it's not going to be a shock for them, and
Nate Doelling:
they'll probably embrace it, and they'll make friends, and
Nate Doelling:
they'll thrive in that kind of community and maybe be the one
Nate Doelling:
to do it when they grow up, and they'll want to work
Nate Doelling:
internationally, live outside the country, but they'll always
Nate Doelling:
have that perspective. I think it's just such a wonderful
Nate Doelling:
opportunity. We're really fortunate that we got to do it,
Nate Doelling:
and we can continue to do it. I don't know where we'll end up in
Nate Doelling:
the future, but we'll continue. Exploring the world, probably,
Christina Lewellen:
yeah, clearly sounds like the world is
Christina Lewellen:
indeed your oyster. You're ready to go, guys, are you feeling
Christina Lewellen:
inspired? Would you be willing to, like, wave a magic wand and
Christina Lewellen:
go work in another country? You feeling like you can do
Bill Stites:
it? I would say yes. I would definitely be very
Bill Stites:
open to it, the logistics of it right now. With one out of
Bill Stites:
college, one in college. It's not like I'm taking my kids with
Bill Stites:
me at this point. So it's a matter of figuring out where we
Bill Stites:
would be. But it's definitely something my wife and I have
Bill Stites:
talked about.
Hiram Cuevas:
Yeah, I would agree with Bill. I have one in
Hiram Cuevas:
college as well. But what I'm most intrigued with Nate is your
Hiram Cuevas:
temperament in this conversation right now and how easy going? I
Hiram Cuevas:
don't know if it's because it's 630 in the morning over there,
Hiram Cuevas:
or if that's your true nature, but you seem very adaptable to
Hiram Cuevas:
this type of lifestyle and living
Nate Doelling:
I am envious. Yeah, I won't discount that
Nate Doelling:
probably a lot of my happiness is that it is the last day of
Nate Doelling:
school and it is a half day, and I'm heading off on a plane
Nate Doelling:
tonight, back to America for my summer job, where I get to relax
Nate Doelling:
at summer camp, instructing crafts this summer, working for
Nate Doelling:
my wife, who will be my boss at the camp. So I'm a little happy
Nate Doelling:
about what summer opportunities bring, but I understand there's
Nate Doelling:
a lot of stress in deciding to move overseas, but once college
Nate Doelling:
is over, is when we see a lot of people return to overseas. A lot
Nate Doelling:
of people take a break, especially when their kids are
Nate Doelling:
about to enter college. They'll take a break to make sure that
Nate Doelling:
they're in the States, or they're back in the country
Nate Doelling:
where their child is starting school. We also have people that
Nate Doelling:
stay overseas while their child is in college. They get them
Nate Doelling:
off, they get them started. You know, maybe they start come back
Nate Doelling:
to come back to school a little late that first year when
Nate Doelling:
they're dropping their freshmen off to college. But after that,
Nate Doelling:
did the kids come home for summer and they put them on a
Nate Doelling:
plane like bye, bye, and the kids will come back and visit at
Nate Doelling:
Christmas.
Bill Stites:
So you're on a US based schedule. Yes, we
Nate Doelling:
follow a very traditional schedule with a fall
Nate Doelling:
break, a Christmas break, a spring break than a large summer
Nate Doelling:
break.
Bill Stites:
I couldn't even imagine my job with the summers
Bill Stites:
off. I haven't gotten this like multiple weeks in a summer in
Bill Stites:
years. That's what I'm most jealous for right there.
Nate Doelling:
Yeah, maybe I shouldn't say it's summer off.
Nate Doelling:
It's summer remote, but I have an amazing local staff, and you
Nate Doelling:
know, the projects that are done over the summer, everything
Nate Doelling:
that's in person they handle, the reconstructions, the
Nate Doelling:
renewals, the refreshes. They get vacation during the summer
Nate Doelling:
too. But their 12 month contract and their hard work and their
Nate Doelling:
year round effort is What does allow me to step away during the
Nate Doelling:
summer for six weeks and get refreshed and ready to rebuild.
Nate Doelling:
But yeah, I'm still pretty connected. I've still got the
Nate Doelling:
work laptop with me. I'm still hopping on at night to check
Nate Doelling:
emails and process those software renewals and discuss
Nate Doelling:
the status of project updates with the leadership team. So
Nate Doelling:
yeah, I would say I more go remote for about six weeks, but
Nate Doelling:
it's amazing. It's not a common benefit overseas, as much as is
Nate Doelling:
not in the States. And
Bill Stites:
it's interesting, because where you are, it lines
Bill Stites:
up well, because as our day is ending right now, your day is
Bill Stites:
just beginning. So like that type of work that you might be
Bill Stites:
doing, like during the day to summer camp, if you to take two
Bill Stites:
calls a week, you could do it after work, when your team's
Bill Stites:
getting their day started and you're closing your day out, you
Bill Stites:
could take a little bit of time, like we're doing right now, and
Bill Stites:
have a conversation. So I see definitely how it can work. I am
Bill Stites:
still infinitely jealous.
Christina Lewellen:
I love it. Nate. I hope that you enjoy your
Christina Lewellen:
hybrid summer back here in the States, and I hope you have a
Christina Lewellen:
really smooth journey back over here, I'm sure that that's a
Christina Lewellen:
heck of a dose of jet lag that you have to deal with, but you
Christina Lewellen:
probably are an expert at that as well. So Safe travels, I want
Christina Lewellen:
to thank you for joining us so much. This has been so
Christina Lewellen:
interesting. You probably got a bunch of questions that'll be
Christina Lewellen:
waiting for you on LinkedIn after this episode drops.
Nate Doelling:
Well, thank you. It's been great to speak with
Nate Doelling:
all of you and get to meet you today. I still see the work that
Nate Doelling:
you guys do, the things that come out in the newsletters.
Nate Doelling:
It's really important to all of us working overseas, and I'd
Nate Doelling:
love to see maybe an international subgroup with
Nate Doelling:
Atlas for all of us expats from the States, because it's really
Nate Doelling:
important to stay connected for just awareness of what's going
Nate Doelling:
on, professional development and just expanding your friendships
Nate Doelling:
and reach throughout the world. So thanks for this opportunity
Nate Doelling:
today. It's been a real pleasure.
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, you're very welcome. And I think it's a
Christina Lewellen:
good idea. I think that you're onto something. Maybe we need to
Christina Lewellen:
do some meetups, the timing of which would be a little
Christina Lewellen:
interesting, but we can figure it out we are smart people.
Christina Lewellen:
Well, I'm
Nate Doelling:
looking forward to Columbus. I saw that pop up.
Nate Doelling:
I've got family in Columbus, so I'm pretty sure I'm definitely
Nate Doelling:
coming to the conference next.
Christina Lewellen:
Oh, that's so exciting. Will you do a
Christina Lewellen:
session for us on this topic so that you can talk about
Christina Lewellen:
international tech leadership?
Nate Doelling:
Of course, perfect. And, yeah, people can.
Nate Doelling:
To talk to me on LinkedIn if they want to know more. There's
Nate Doelling:
a lot of resources out there about getting started, whether
Nate Doelling:
it's a resource for teaching an international school or being a
Nate Doelling:
tech leader, the information is probably going to be about the
Nate Doelling:
same. The services are about the same. So reach out and I'll come
Nate Doelling:
to the session. I'll do one. See, you
Christina Lewellen:
didn't know you were going to get homework
Christina Lewellen:
from this podcast, but now you're all tapped in. So we look
Christina Lewellen:
forward to we're looking forward to it. We're looking forward to
Christina Lewellen:
being in Columbus. I'm so glad that you're going to be there,
Christina Lewellen:
and thank you again for joining us. We'll circle back with
Nate Doelling:
you on your homework assignment. Sounds
Nate Doelling:
good.
Peter Frank:
Thank you so much. This has been talking technology
Peter Frank:
with Atlas, produced by the Association of technology
Peter Frank:
leaders in independent schools. For more information about Atlas
Peter Frank:
and Atlas membership, please visit theatlas.org if you
Peter Frank:
enjoyed this discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and
Peter Frank:
share this podcast with your colleagues in the independent
Peter Frank:
school community. Thank you for listening. You.
