The Future of Learning with AI, Quantum Computing, and XR
From the ATLIS Annual Conference 2025
This podcast is sponsored by:
This episode replays a dynamic panel from the 2025 ATLIS Annual Conference, exploring the future of education with experts in AI, quantum computing, and extended reality (XR). Dr. Jacob Farinholt of Booz Allen, Vriti Saraf of Ed3 DAO, and Patrick Schuermann of Optima XR, along with students Jalen and Maggie, discuss how emerging technologies will reshape learning, the skills students will need, and why human-centered pedagogy remains critical.
This episode of Talking Technology with ATLIS is sponsored by Ruvna.
Resources
Booz Allen: https://www.boozallen.com
Ed3 DAO: https://www.ed3dao.com/
Optima Ed: https://optimaxr.ai/
The Mount Vernon School: https://mountvernonschool.org/
X Prize: https://www.xprize.org/
ASU+GSV Summit: https://www.asugsvsummit.com/
World Economic Forum: https://www.weforum.org/
OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development): https://www.oecd.org/
UNESCO: https://www.unesco.org/en
Pine Crest School: https://www.pinecrest.edu/
Woodward Academy: https://www.woodward.edu/
"The Perfect Match" by Ken Liu: https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-perfect-match/
Transcript
Peter Frank:
Ed, welcome to Talking technology with Atlas,
Peter Frank:
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
Peter Frank:
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Peter Frank:
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
Peter Frank:
special guests from the Independent School community,
Peter Frank:
and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Peter Frank:
And now please welcome your host. Kristina llewellen,
Christina Lewellen:
hello everyone, and welcome back to
Christina Lewellen:
talking technology with Atlas. I'm Kristina llewellen, the
Christina Lewellen:
president and CEO of the Association of technology
Christina Lewellen:
leaders and independent schools.
Bill Stites:
And I am Bill Stites, the Director of
Bill Stites:
Technology at Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New
Bill Stites:
Jersey. And
Hiram Cuevas:
I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of Information
Hiram Cuevas:
Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher school in
Hiram Cuevas:
Richmond, Virginia.
Christina Lewellen:
Good morning, gentlemen. It's so
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great to be here with you. How are you guys doing? Doing? Well,
Christina Lewellen:
wonderful. Thank you. I'm so happy that we get to, once
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again, relive something very special from the 2025 Atlas
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annual conference. On the second day that we all gathered in
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Atlanta, we did a general session with a panel. And this
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was a really impressive group of people. And I loved how we were
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able to pick their brains for all of the new things coming
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down our path, even beyond the immediate issues of AI. So this
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is going to be a really cool one. We're going to replay for
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all of our listeners the general session that we recorded when we
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were together in Atlanta. And before I just ask you guys if
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you had any recollections or memories of this particular
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conversation, I will say that the folks that came to this
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panel, I'm just so impressed that our team was able to bring
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these thought leaders together. One is Dr Jacob farenholt. He's
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the chief scientist and quantum technology lead for Booz Allen,
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a leading provider of AI and cybersecurity services to the
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federal government. We also had VD sarof. She's the CEO and
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founder of Ed three. Dao and our final panelist, rounding out
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this powerhouse team was Patrick Sherman, and he is the lead of
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Optima XR and a longtime contributor to the independent
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school space. So when we brought these folks together, we were
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able to talk about some of these web 3.0 the metaverse, virtual
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reality, quantum computing, and AI, all of those things. But
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what was super cool about it is that we also had students
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involved in this conversation, and some of the speakers were
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diving into these incredible ways that schools can anticipate
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and adapt to these innovations. You know, certainly, they wanted
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to highlight the opportunities for enriched learning and
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practical steps for the seamless integration of these emerging
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technologies. But it was also really cool. We had a couple of
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students from an independent school hanging out with us, and
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I thought that that was pretty cool. Up on stage with quantum
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scientists and CEOs, they definitely held their own,
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didn't they,
Hiram Cuevas:
absolutely I mean, it's, it was already a high IQ
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event, and then these kids, they actually rose to the occasion
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and probably surpassed, you know, definitely bill. So it's
Hiram Cuevas:
all good,
Bill Stites:
I was gonna say, because it was a high IQ event.
Bill Stites:
That's why I wasn't involved. I was off scheduled elsewhere. So
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I'm, I'm actually really eager to listen to this myself and to
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learn from the panel, because knowing who was involved and
Bill Stites:
catching pieces of it, I'm really eager to hear what
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everyone has to say, and I think our audience will
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as well. Yeah, it was the kind of
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experience where in the room my brain was almost like a couple
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steps behind, right incredible, like nuggets of wisdom would get
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dropped about the future of all this and where it's going, and
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then I would still be thinking about that, and somebody else
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would say something incredible. So it was really great to
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experience it live, but I'm really excited to present it as
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a replay for our podcast audience. Are you guys ready to
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go? Let's
Bill Stites:
go. Let's do it.
Ashley Cross:
So this is going to be a really fun panel. We've
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got some awesome people gathered here with us today, and we are
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going to use strategic foresight. If you are not
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familiar with this concept, the point of this is that we are
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scanning the horizon. It's so easy y'all, to just put our
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heads down and look at the put out the fires that are in front
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of us, right? Oh my gosh, all of these vendor vetting contracts,
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I've got to deal with AI, what, what is going on. But if we can
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take the time to also look up and scan our horizon, it can set
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our schools in such an amazing place. And so that is what I
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invite you to do with us today. I just wanted to point out an
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example of this. You know, we've been talking about AI for years
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here at Atlas, but it was a very abstract concept, right? We've
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been having these AI meetups way before Chat GPT came on the
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scene, but the schools that were really poised to take advantage
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of that are now the ones that are the most ahead. They're the
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leaders. When Felix said, Hey, stand. Up if you're doing really
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well, and you've got that AI policy, and you guys are doing
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okay, and those schools that stood up, they use strategic
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foresight to kind of get ahead. And so I hope that this panel
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this morning will be very enlightening for you as we again
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look ahead maybe 510, years out, what are some of the things that
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could be on the horizon? So without further ado, I'd like to
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introduce our panel to you. We've got Dr Jacob fahrenholt,
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y'all. He is the chief scientist and quantum technologies lead at
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Booz Allen. He's got over 15 years of experience with the US
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government, and he has been doing all kinds of things as a
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research scientist for the US Navy, where he leads teams in
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quantum computing, cryptography and cybersecurity. So we're
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going to talk about the implications of that. Would you
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wave at us so we can Yes, all right, thank you. All right,
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we've got Brad saraph. She is the co founder and CEO of the ED
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three Dow. It's a nonprofit. She does amazing things with
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upskilling educators on emerging technologies through research
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based pedagogy. And she's the founder of K 20 educators. She's
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got a design studio, a consultancy, just doing all
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around amazing work. She's had experience in higher education K
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12 as a professor, a dean, a director, and she now serves as
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an advisor for X Prize, full stream forward, and then me
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prime Bitcoin, so she's doing amazing stuff, and y'all I was
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just at ASU GSB, and she was recognized as one of the leading
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women in AI. So really, would you give us a wave? All right,
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also on our panel, we have Patrick Sherman. He is the chief
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academic officer for Optima Ed, a former Vanderbilt University
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Professor of Educational Leadership, and his leadership
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really focuses at the intersection of learning theory
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and technology, and he's here at the panel today from his role in
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Optima pioneering Virtual Reality curriculum solutions for
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Modern learners. Patrick, would you give us a wave? You? So we
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have all of these amazing adults, but you will also notice
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we have some students on our panel today. I am so excited to
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introduce you to Jalen and Maggie. They are coming from the
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Mount Vernon school, and they're going to talk about their first
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hand experiences of emerging tech in their learning
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environments and help give us a vision of what schools could
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look like. So, Jalen, would you give us a wave and Maggie,
Ashley Cross:
excellent. All right, so, Jake, I'm going to start with you. All
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right. Dr fahrehold, here, we're going to start with quantum
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computing, because y'all we've had a late night. So, Dr
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fahrenholt, can you help us unpack this a little bit, what
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is quantum computing and how might it impact independent
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schools in the future?
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Dr. Jacob Farinholt: Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Yeah, if you
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don't understand what quantum is, I'll say you're in good
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company. Richard Feynman, a famous Nobel physicist, famously
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said nobody understands quantum Einstein, one of the founders of
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quantum mechanics, adamantly hated it, and actually went out
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of his way to try and show that it was wrong. And ended up
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discovering some really interesting phenomena in quantum
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so if you don't understand it, you are an excellent company.
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You can say, hey, so do Nobel physicists, so you're good
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there. But at a high level, quantum mechanics is just the
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physics of small things. So when you get down to the really small
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levels, at the atomic subatomic levels, all the physics,
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Newtonian physics that we know and love starts to fall apart
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and it gets replaced by another new laws of physics that are
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captured under the name quantum mechanics. So quantum mechanics
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does some really, really weird, non intuitive things, and to
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most of us, that's, you know, when you hear about these
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properties, you say That's strange. If you're a physicist,
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you call it a feature. And so the area of quantum technologies
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is focused on exploiting those features to give you some sort
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of advantage in either computing, sensing or
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communications. So when you hear about quantum technologies, it's
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really multiple different areas. Most people, though, are
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referring to quantum computing, because that's what we hear
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about in the news all the time. Quantum Computing really is a
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fundamentally different model of computing where the basic
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principles, instead of classically, we have bits and
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transistors at the core, and that's how we actually do all of
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our computing. With quantum computing, you use instead of
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bits, you have quantum bits, which physicists don't like
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saying that long word, so we call it qubits. And then you
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have gates, these operations that you can do with these
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qubits. And once you do that, you can build out a model of
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computing that enables you to do different types of operations
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that we can't do normally and occasionally. Using those
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operations, you can develop new algorithms that are faster and
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more simple than what we can do using conventional computers. So
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that's fundamental difference there. Why do we care? It turns
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out, in the mid 90s, a physicist actually showed that if you had
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a full scale quantum computer, you could do this really cool
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thing called factoring. So taking. Of numbers and finding
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their prime factors, which me, as a mathematician, I thought
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that's really cool. I love it. You can do this neat math
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problem. But why do we care about that? It turns out, all of
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our currently used public key encryption. So how do we
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actually encrypt information and talk securely over the phone,
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text messages and so forth, all rely on the assumption that
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factoring numbers is really hard, that's actually the basic
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premise of the entire security and so now we find out, hey, if
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you can build one of these quantum computers, you can break
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all of our currently used public key encryption. That might be a
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problem. So that really started driving forward this whole field
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of quantum computing, either to take advantage of it and see
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what else can we do that's interesting, or find ways to
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defend against it, doing cryptography on new types of
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encryption and so forth. And so that is the world that I live
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in, day in and day out, and it's really fascinating time in this
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space.
Ashley Cross:
Thank you, Vritti, did you have a question for
Vriti Saraf:
him? We were talking at the table, and he
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started describing quantum computing. And I think my
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biggest question was, you know, AI has recently become very
Vriti Saraf:
accessible to us, but AI has been around for a very long
Vriti Saraf:
time. When will quantum computing become as accessible
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as AI?
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Dr. Jacob Farinholt: If I knew that question, I would be
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putting tons of money in the stock market to predict this,
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and knowing that I'll be extremely rich down the road, we
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don't know. So one of the fascinating things that it has
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been in fun in the quantum space is that we've been able to do a
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lot of lessons learned from Ai. We saw AI really take off in the
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80s and 90s, really a lot of excitement around these new
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algorithms and capabilities that you could potentially do with
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them. And then we saw, as people started implementing them, they
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said, Wait, this is really hard, and our current CPUs can't quite
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handle the processing power. So you saw this kind of dip down.
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And then GPUs came out, and suddenly you can run AI
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algorithms extremely efficiently and more affordably. Someone at
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home could actually develop and implement AI technologies. And
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so you saw this, this huge boom, and then you've been seeing
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these waves go on and on over the past few decades. Quantum
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Computing is more where AI was in the 90s. There was a lot of
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excitement around the potential, but the technology wasn't there.
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The underlying hardware wasn't there. And so what we're seeing
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now is the technology advancing at remarkable rates. And so most
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of the focus when you hear about quantum computing, you always
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hear people talk about qubits and error correction and the
Vriti Saraf:
hardware and what it looks like, and trapped ions and
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superconducting and all this focus on the hardware. But you
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don't really hear much about well, how do we use it? There's
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so much focus on advancing the hardware that that sometimes
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gets overlooked. And so I think right now, we're starting to see
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people kind of step back and say, Hey, maybe we should be
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developing that framework, developing the ability to
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actually access these devices. And as people are developing
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programming languages and so forth to actually start running
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it, they're realizing, hey, you know, there's only so many PhD
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physicists and mathematicians out there, and those aren't the
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ones that are going to be using it day in and day in and day
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out. How do we make this more accessible? And that's really
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where we are today. Is a lot of the communities trying to figure
Vriti Saraf:
that out right now.
Ashley Cross:
Thank you. All right, so Patrick, I'm going to
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direct this next one at you. So when you look at how fast
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technology is evolving, where do you see the biggest gaps between
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what schools are currently teaching and what skills that
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the students will need in the future.
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Dr. Patrick Schuermann: If it's all right with you. In the
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spirit of improv, I think my colleague really has great
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insight into the what, right? And I was gonna build on the
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what and talk a little bit more about the how. Sounds good. If
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you're okay with that, my friend,
Vriti Saraf:
totally. Yeah. So let's talk about AI, because
Vriti Saraf:
that seems to be the most you know sexy technology right now
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that everybody's into. What I'm seeing with AI and other
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technology is that we often approach it from the school
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level on a very superficial way and on very app based way. We
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say, how can we teach our faculty members to use x and y?
Vriti Saraf:
App, mad, school, school, AI, whatever it is. And the truth is
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that if we're always focusing on the app level, and we're
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focusing on the just the way that we're able to use AI and
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not the way that we're able to think with AI, then we're always
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going to just be on the superficial level. Do you guys
Vriti Saraf:
remember when Apple iPads were being implemented in schools all
Vriti Saraf:
over the state, all over the country? What ended up happening
Vriti Saraf:
was educators knew how to use apple, but didn't know how to
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use any other technology, and that's somewhat what's happening
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with AI right now. We're really focusing on a superficial layer
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here, and so when we think about how technology is being
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implemented, or AI being implemented, we really want to
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look at what is the underlying mechanism that AI operates on,
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what are the strengths, the weaknesses of how it can
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operate, and then also, how can we really use it to push forward
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those skills that we know students are gonna need
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regardless of what technology it is, whether it's spatial
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computing or AI, which is really critical thinking, right? How do
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we ensure that educators and students alike can really build
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their critical. Thinking skills using this technology, rather
Vriti Saraf:
than just off putting or letting the technology do the critical
Vriti Saraf:
thinking for them. Does that set you up?
Vriti Saraf:
Dr. Patrick Schuermann: Absolutely. Thank you, my friend. Yes. So
Vriti Saraf:
the World Economic Forum, OECD UNESCO have come out with lists
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of kind of the skills of the future. So we have a good idea
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of what students right, like Jalen and Maggie are going to
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need to know and to be able to do in the future. So then it
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comes back to us as educators to say, how are we creating the
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experiences that are going to ensure that not just that
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knowledge, but the skills and the attributes are being
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developed? And I think it comes down to creating
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transformational experiences for students. And transformation
Vriti Saraf:
occurs kind of through a three step process, and I think
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technology can be a great catalyst to the first step,
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which is creating discomfort zone experiences, so helping
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students think just the next layer out from their current
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habits or awareness or understandings, but where I
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think educators are going to be invaluable, and even more so
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over the next 10 and 20 years, is in kind of the second and
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third steps of the process, which is the second is kind of
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what we call narrative translation. When we go through
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challenging situations, how do we go about doing the sense
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making and creating meaning and Maggie and Jalen, I'm sure you
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can think about teachers who are so good at that, who know you,
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care about you, and can help you say, Okay, what is this about?
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How do I make sense of this? And then the third piece is all
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about identity construction, right? And this is where
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sometimes we fall short. I think, in the field of
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education, we leave a lot of money on the table, so to speak.
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But unless we take the conversation to the place of,
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how does this fundamentally change what you think about
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yourself, what your capacity is, how you're capable, how you can
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be a collaborator or communicator, then we haven't
Vriti Saraf:
closed the loop. But again, I think technology can put us into
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these spaces, let us embody and experience them in ways that we
Vriti Saraf:
couldn't by just watching and hearing about things. But now,
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when we can walk a mile in someone's shoes, then we've got
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an experience that we really need to kind of create the
Vriti Saraf:
narrative, and then it can have a deep identity impact. And I
Vriti Saraf:
think that's one of the beauties of this intersection of
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technology and leadership in our schools today.
Vriti Saraf:
And can I just add to that, what you named is just
Vriti Saraf:
super, super important, super critical, because the qualities
Vriti Saraf:
that he named are the qualities that AI cannot do and will not
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be able to do. Anyone familiar with Bloom's Taxonomy here?
Vriti Saraf:
Anyone? I think they've heard of it? Yeah. So a few years ago, I
Vriti Saraf:
actually mapped AI to Bloom's to understand what cognitive
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capacities AI has compared to humans, and what I found was
Vriti Saraf:
that most of the capacities AI is actually quite good at. The
Vriti Saraf:
only one that AI cannot surpass humans on is the understanding
Vriti Saraf:
piece, which is pretty low on blooms, right? But making
Vriti Saraf:
meaning is not something AI does very well, because AI is only
Vriti Saraf:
basing its understanding on algorithms and the data it has,
Vriti Saraf:
and the data is often biased, and the algorithms are also
Vriti Saraf:
biased based on whoever's developing it, right? And so the
Vriti Saraf:
making meaning part is uniquely human. I gave a talk a few years
Vriti Saraf:
ago to some superintendents in California, and one of them
Vriti Saraf:
raised their hand after I mentioned this Bloom's Taxonomy
Vriti Saraf:
thing, and they said, You know, I have an example of that, I
Vriti Saraf:
asked my son to work with Chat GPT to work on his assignment.
Vriti Saraf:
The assignment was write a goodbye letter to racism. And
Vriti Saraf:
Chat GPT came out with a response that said, you know,
Vriti Saraf:
here's a great way to start that letter, dear racism, such great
Vriti Saraf:
times we've had. Oh, yikes. And it's because what AI was doing,
Vriti Saraf:
especially at that time, this was in 2023 was it was taking
Vriti Saraf:
the algorithms and the data that it had from the internet and
Vriti Saraf:
basically creating a template for what a good letter sounds
Vriti Saraf:
like. But it didn't actually make meaning of the topic
Vriti Saraf:
itself, right? AI, obviously, you know, llms have advanced
Vriti Saraf:
quite a bit since then, but it still isn't able to make as much
Vriti Saraf:
meaning as humans can, because humans have a unique ability to
Vriti Saraf:
understand the world through perspective, through emotions,
Vriti Saraf:
through your life experiences, through the way that we're able
Vriti Saraf:
to experience pain and love, the way that AI can never. So if
Vriti Saraf:
you're thinking about what is that key difference? What is the
Vriti Saraf:
thing that humans will always do better than AI. It's what he
Vriti Saraf:
talked about, and it's about making meaning. Thank
Ashley Cross:
you so much. So now I'm really excited to bring
Ashley Cross:
our student panelists into this conversation, to give you a
Ashley Cross:
little bit of an idea about how they got here and why they're
Ashley Cross:
here. They are part of this amazing course taught by I bet
Ashley Cross:
you know this guy. Right? Jared Cole, Jared, would you give us a
Ashley Cross:
wave? Yes, there you go. So jared's course is philosophy in
Ashley Cross:
the age of artificial intelligence. I would just like
Ashley Cross:
to note this is a humanities course. This is not a computer
Ashley Cross:
science curriculum, and these guys are part of this class, and
Ashley Cross:
it's really fascinating too, because the work that they do in
Ashley Cross:
this course, it is directly tied to the school's mission. So the
Ashley Cross:
school's mission is built on inquiry, innovation and impact,
Ashley Cross:
and your class has these weekly activities that directly relate
Ashley Cross:
to that. So can you tell us a little bit about some of the
Ashley Cross:
work that you do in the class, about innovating experimentally
Ashley Cross:
with these AI technologies each week,
Maggie:
yes. So it almost felt shocking that we were being
Maggie:
directed to use something that is kind of correlating with like
Maggie:
cheating and everything like that. So it felt kind of
Maggie:
interesting that we were supposed to experiment with
Maggie:
that, and it ended up being super beneficial the times where
Maggie:
we got to explore on our own and come up with our own ideas on
Maggie:
AI, for example, we were prompted to co create something
Maggie:
with Chat GPT, and I chose something very simple, and it
Maggie:
was just coming up with a movie script. And this is where I
Maggie:
learned about ethics of AI. And when Chat GPT gave me a movie
Maggie:
that had already been made, I was a little concerned, but
Maggie:
that's the point that I could come up with that on my own, and
Maggie:
that will help me in the future and be more cautious. And I know
Maggie:
that now that AI is just telling me what I want to hear, but it
Maggie:
took me having like mistakes and doing that on my own to
Maggie:
understand that, and I think that's like the whole point of
Maggie:
the class
Jalen:
piggybacking off of Maggie for the first week. I
Jalen:
also chose the movie script idea. And the way that that
Jalen:
specific assignment was given to us was we would have like a
Jalen:
choice board, and so we would choose any like prompt that we
Jalen:
want to do, and then we would go about and do it. But the thing
Jalen:
that he had honed in on is that at the end, we will always get
Jalen:
the same four questions, and they are basically coming from
Jalen:
and a resource that we use at the school called four corners.
Jalen:
So it's like things I like, things I didn't like, things I
Jalen:
don't understand, and then things to consider. And so for
Jalen:
him to like, Hone like in on those four questions. I was
Jalen:
like, um, how does that connect with me making a movie script
Jalen:
with, like, AI, but piggybacking off of Miss Vritti, I think that
Jalen:
the making meaning part, it's exactly why he chose for us to
Jalen:
answer those four questions every time we did a prompt.
Jalen:
Because, had I not answered those four questions and, like,
Jalen:
actually, consider, hey, AI is kind of like, currently, at
Jalen:
least Chat GPT is like, our Yes, man, if that makes sense. Like,
Jalen:
as I was, like, going about creating the script. I was like,
Jalen:
how about we have this in it? And they were like, it's
Jalen:
amazing. Like, that's so good. Like, that's an awesome idea.
Jalen:
And I was like, Okay, I don't have a big ego, but you're
Jalen:
raising me right now. And so it was like getting to understand
Jalen:
that even though AI is a wonderful and a helpful source.
Jalen:
It's still a matter of, what about creating AI or having AI
Jalen:
that's like, not seen as like a servant or a yes man that's
Jalen:
like, able to openly give feedback. I don't have to
Jalen:
physically say, hey, I want feedback for the like language
Jalen:
model to give me the feedback.
Ashley Cross:
Thank you. I did mention this when I was
Ashley Cross:
introducing them, but their class actually nominated these
Ashley Cross:
two to be here with us today. So you were chosen by your peers.
Ashley Cross:
So we're really excited to have your voices on the panel. So my
Ashley Cross:
next question, I'm just opening it up to anybody. Okay, so we're
Ashley Cross:
going to talk about what shift in pedagogy or curriculum design
Ashley Cross:
will schools need to consider in the next five to 10 years?
Jalen:
So a big thing that we learned about within philosophy
Jalen:
in the age of emerging technology is this concept of a
Jalen:
central relationship between us and AI, which is essentially AI
Jalen:
serving as an extension of us. So when I think of like a
Jalen:
possible shift, I would definitely think about we
Jalen:
learned in that class how to create bots that could from
Jalen:
tutoring assistants to helping us with like diets and meals
Jalen:
depending on what part of the choice board that you chose, we
Jalen:
basically learned that there are ais that we can create
Jalen:
specifically for a category of life that we need help on, and
Jalen:
they will taking all the information that you gave them,
Jalen:
will try their very best to assist you. I think that the
Jalen:
shift that needs to happen is, I feel like teachers, or just like
Jalen:
schools in general, should promote that more. Because, for
Jalen:
example, tutoring that changes the whole aspect of tutoring
Jalen:
completely. Because now, instead of wholly relying on a person
Jalen:
who we know, we all get sick. Sometimes. We all are like, Oh,
Jalen:
I might not be able to do this, but you have an AI assistant
Jalen:
that is your extension. So it's like you might not be able to
Jalen:
come to me directly, but how about you work with this Flint
Jalen:
bot assistant or this Chat GPT assistant, and so learning how
Jalen:
to create your own bots, not only that, but especially in the
Jalen:
age of adolescent. Since we all like to be independent, so
Jalen:
knowing that we can create bots that can help us learn on our
Jalen:
own time, I feel like that will definitely promote the
Jalen:
independence and the I guess working outside of like the
Jalen:
classroom,
Vriti Saraf:
I don't think we need to be here. I think John
Vriti Saraf:
and I think this entire panel that was amazing. I'll add a
Vriti Saraf:
little bit of flair to that. AI agents right now. They're not
Vriti Saraf:
super usable at this very moment, but they are going to
Vriti Saraf:
become super usable. Can I
Ashley Cross:
interrupt here for people in the audience who may
Ashley Cross:
have heard this AI agent buzz word but they don't quite
Ashley Cross:
understand Can you unpack it just a little bit
Vriti Saraf:
for us? Yeah, an AI agent is basically an autonomous
Vriti Saraf:
bot that will take data and make decisions on your behalf and
Vriti Saraf:
execute it. So, for example, if you want to create a website and
Vriti Saraf:
set up an entire marketplace, you don't actually have to,
Vriti Saraf:
like, set up every portion of it. You can just say to an LM,
Vriti Saraf:
this is what I want to create. And it will create the website.
Vriti Saraf:
It will set up the marketplace. It'll start sourcing, you know,
Vriti Saraf:
products. It'll do the entire thing for you, from start to
Vriti Saraf:
finish, without you actually having to intervene. Now, if you
Vriti Saraf:
think about that from a education perspective, what
Vriti Saraf:
might you do there? Let's think about from start to finish,
Vriti Saraf:
lesson planning or start to finish, maybe creating an IP or
Vriti Saraf:
start to finish, generating materials for your classroom
Vriti Saraf:
even more advanced than that. You know, there's a lot of like,
Vriti Saraf:
autonomous functions that can happen in your classroom. Now,
Vriti Saraf:
what Jalen said is really relevant, because AI agents can
Vriti Saraf:
fill in the gaps for a human in ways that are much more dynamic
Vriti Saraf:
than we can do right now with, you know, sitting at a computer
Vriti Saraf:
and talking to an LLM, a large language model with AI agents.
Vriti Saraf:
The thing that we need to think about is, if every human teacher
Vriti Saraf:
and student alike has an agent, somebody who can act
Vriti Saraf:
autonomously on your behalf and has the skills and maybe even
Vriti Saraf:
some of the abilities that you don't necessarily have, but are
Vriti Saraf:
filling the gaps in with the agent, will you then, as let's
Vriti Saraf:
say, a professional start applying to jobs where you are
Vriti Saraf:
recognized, not only as yourself, but you plus agent,
Vriti Saraf:
right? So your abilities and your skills and your
Vriti Saraf:
capabilities are actually then amplified because you have this
Vriti Saraf:
agent. Same thing with students. If a student is coming into a
Vriti Saraf:
classroom, it's not just them, but it's them plus their agent,
Vriti Saraf:
could their learning and their ability to be able to comprehend
Vriti Saraf:
things and be able to learn autonomously, increase because
Vriti Saraf:
they have an agent. So that really changes the dialog for
Vriti Saraf:
how we actually engage with students in the classroom and
Vriti Saraf:
how we actually as educators, what we can do. One of the
Vriti Saraf:
things that is really incredible about Mount Vernon is they're
Vriti Saraf:
doing all of this project based learning and student centered
Vriti Saraf:
learning and inquiry based learning. Those things are
Vriti Saraf:
really hard to do and quite expensive. Oftentimes, most of
Vriti Saraf:
you guys are in independent schools, and so it's easier for
Vriti Saraf:
you guys to access those opportunities. But for public
Vriti Saraf:
schools, it's quite hard to access things like that, because
Vriti Saraf:
PD is harder. Getting access to materials are harder. Usually
Vriti Saraf:
need smaller classroom sizes, but if you bring AI into the
Vriti Saraf:
equation, especially agents, can we actually enable these student
Vriti Saraf:
centered pedagogies to proliferate much faster? Because
Vriti Saraf:
we're not going to need as many materials and it won't be as
Vriti Saraf:
expensive. So that's something to think about, and then I'll
Vriti Saraf:
pass it to you, but I do want to put the idea of portfolio based
Vriti Saraf:
assessment and performance based assessments into the ether as
Vriti Saraf:
well. But we could talk about that next time.
Vriti Saraf:
Dr. Patrick Schuermann: There we go. Love it. You know, as I
Vriti Saraf:
think about the future and continuing to adapt and what
Vriti Saraf:
does it look pedagogically and curricularly in the next few
Vriti Saraf:
years? Maybe it's the former professor in me. I think back
Vriti Saraf:
actually 100 years. I think Dewey right, as we launched the
Vriti Saraf:
Progressive Era of education, right? That was about moving
Vriti Saraf:
from this teacher as the sage on the stage, kind of the
Vriti Saraf:
authoritarian model, to really democratize classrooms. And I
Vriti Saraf:
think some of these emergent technologies have the capacity
Vriti Saraf:
to further catalyze that. If we fast forward to the 80s, right?
Vriti Saraf:
We came up with this kind of wave of experiential learning
Vriti Saraf:
theory, right? So Cole Rogers, right? These guys said, we don't
Vriti Saraf:
learn really by listening. We don't even learn so much just by
Vriti Saraf:
thinking. We learn by doing, right? And so then again, we
Vriti Saraf:
think about how these emerging technologies can help us create
Vriti Saraf:
experiences for our students to actively engage. And then, most
Vriti Saraf:
recently, the National Academy of Sciences came up with the how
Vriti Saraf:
people learn framework, a distillation of all of the
Vriti Saraf:
cognitive science literature and research to date. And it says we
Vriti Saraf:
know now how to construct learning environments to most
Vriti Saraf:
efficiently and effectively move students from novice to expert
Vriti Saraf:
learners, which is defined as taking knowledge and skills and
Vriti Saraf:
applying them in new situations. So as we then think about
Vriti Saraf:
pedagogically, curricularly, where. We need to go right then
Vriti Saraf:
it is really moving away from kind of these content, siloed
Vriti Saraf:
conversations around a domain expertise, to these
Vriti Saraf:
interdisciplinary, active experiments where you embody
Vriti Saraf:
things, you do the sense making right, and you think about how
Vriti Saraf:
we can apply what we're learning to real world solutions.
Ashley Cross:
I love that so much. All right, so we've talked
Ashley Cross:
a little bit about the skills. Now I want to think about the
Ashley Cross:
tools just a little bit, and let's make some predictions. So
Ashley Cross:
go with me here, and what developments in some of these
Ashley Cross:
emerging technologies could change how we are learning in
Ashley Cross:
schools, and what should schools start think about like their
Ashley Cross:
path to get there, exploring them the next 510, years. What
Ashley Cross:
are your predictions there?
Ashley Cross:
Dr. Jacob Farinholt: I'll start, yeah. So we don't really know
Ashley Cross:
when quantum computers will be available. What we do know now
Ashley Cross:
is that me and folks like me are very focused on building the
Ashley Cross:
hardware, but it's these students who are going to be the
Ashley Cross:
first to use it. And for me, I think it's fascinating to be
Ashley Cross:
thinking about now, we don't quite know the art of the
Ashley Cross:
possible with these computers when they're available. We know
Ashley Cross:
a handful of things that they'll be good at, we know a lot of
Ashley Cross:
things that they'll be bad at, but we don't really understand
Ashley Cross:
the full scope of what it will enable. I think that it's an
Ashley Cross:
awesome opportunity now to give students that opportunity to
Ashley Cross:
discover, along with everyone else, it's a huge white space.
Ashley Cross:
You know, never discount the innovation that comes from these
Ashley Cross:
students. There are countless examples in history of, you
Ashley Cross:
know, famous mathematicians or physicists that did something
Ashley Cross:
impossible. They discovered some new result that no one thought
Ashley Cross:
could be done. And when they asked them, they were some no
Ashley Cross:
name person beforehand. When they asked them and said, How
Ashley Cross:
did you succeed when so many others failed, their answers
Ashley Cross:
were no one was there to tell me I couldn't do it. And I see
Ashley Cross:
quantum computing and applications of quantum
Ashley Cross:
computing as that beautiful white space to start doing the
Ashley Cross:
same thing. And I think enabling students opportunities to start
Ashley Cross:
exploring what you can do with these devices today, and what
Ashley Cross:
you might be able to do if you have larger systems, more robust
Ashley Cross:
systems, and as they mature, and coupling that with other
Ashley Cross:
technologies and other use cases that I would never think of to
Ashley Cross:
start seeing what the art of the possible could be. For me,
Ashley Cross:
enabling that for students right now would just be incredible.
Vriti Saraf:
I think one of the biggest concerns that I'm sure
Vriti Saraf:
everybody in this room has is privacy and data protection. I
Vriti Saraf:
think with using these systems, whether it's AI or XR or
Vriti Saraf:
whatever we're talking about here, we don't often know where
Vriti Saraf:
the data goes, especially when we're having students use these
Vriti Saraf:
systems, it's essentially a black box. Also, you know, AI,
Vriti Saraf:
there's so much unknown about it. Even the CEOs of these, you
Vriti Saraf:
know, large organizations, anthropic, you know, open AI,
Vriti Saraf:
say they actually don't know what is happening to the data
Vriti Saraf:
sometimes, and they don't know what the AI algorithm is
Vriti Saraf:
actually doing with it, because the systems are becoming so
Vriti Saraf:
advanced and so potentially autonomous. And so, I think one
Vriti Saraf:
of the biggest things that we have to figure out, and I do
Vriti Saraf:
think this is something we will be able to figure out, is how do
Vriti Saraf:
we create more reliability in terms of where the data is going
Vriti Saraf:
and how we can further protect our students and anybody that's
Vriti Saraf:
using it. And then I think another thing that will have to
Vriti Saraf:
change with the technology is accessibility. We as a
Vriti Saraf:
nonprofit, really do believe that AI should be a public
Vriti Saraf:
utility, much like the internet, not that the internet is a
Vriti Saraf:
public utility, yet it should be, but AI should also be. And
Vriti Saraf:
we know that innovation most often occurs when technology is
Vriti Saraf:
more available to more people, because there's brilliant people
Vriti Saraf:
all over the world, and if they're able to access an open
Vriti Saraf:
source model, they'll be able to innovate with it from many
Vriti Saraf:
different contexts. And so making AI a public utility,
Vriti Saraf:
which is what we're advocating for, could really change a lot
Vriti Saraf:
of things, but in terms of how you all can prepare for what's
Vriti Saraf:
coming, I think it's going back to what I said before, which is
Vriti Saraf:
really try to move past the app usage of AI and really try to
Vriti Saraf:
look into the fundamentals about how you can think with AI. Not
Vriti Saraf:
just have your students or teachers or whatever be users of
Vriti Saraf:
AI, but thinkers
Ashley Cross:
with AI. Can I jump in really fast for a super
Ashley Cross:
quick plug. Kristina mentioned our AI summer workshop. What
Ashley Cross:
Vritti just said there is pretty much the premise of what we're
Ashley Cross:
doing. It is not about let's generate a worksheet and let's
Ashley Cross:
do our email more efficiently. We are talking about how
Ashley Cross:
teachers and students can co create with AI, how to build
Ashley Cross:
models, simulations, interactive web apps with no coding
Ashley Cross:
experience. So I'm absolutely with you there. All right, sorry
Ashley Cross:
to interrupt, Patrick. Go ahead.
Ashley Cross:
Dr. Patrick Schuermann: No, that's awesome. And just one
Ashley Cross:
kind of, like specific way of thinking about this at the
Ashley Cross:
intersection of these language models, and then as we look at
Ashley Cross:
kind of this XR space, hang
Ashley Cross:
on, Patrick, jargon alert here, that term has
Ashley Cross:
been around for a little while, but tell us, what does extended
Ashley Cross:
reality? Can you unpack that for us, just really
Ashley Cross:
Dr. Patrick Schuermann: quickly? Sure, sure. So there's VR,
Ashley Cross:
right? Virtual reality, and this is kind of bringing students
Ashley Cross:
into these computer generated spaces. These that are kind of,
Ashley Cross:
they look like, but they're not actually right, the photo
Ashley Cross:
realistic, right? And then there's AR right, augmented
Ashley Cross:
reality, where you might have a device on, but you're seeing
Ashley Cross:
through it, interacting with people, kind of in the real
Ashley Cross:
space or holographic assets, right? And so kind of this mixed
Ashley Cross:
reality or extended reality is kind of the umbrella term that
Ashley Cross:
encompasses virtual and augmented reality, and again, at
Ashley Cross:
that intersection, what we're seeing some really exciting
Ashley Cross:
possibilities, right? I think about the work that Chris
Ashley Cross:
Swanson and his incredible team at Pine Crest is doing in AR and
Ashley Cross:
VR, and they're really kind of pushing the envelope there every
Ashley Cross:
day, from third, kind of through 12th grade, exploring that
Ashley Cross:
intersection, right? And then I think about Connie white and
Ashley Cross:
what she's doing at Woodward and her team, pushing things forward
Ashley Cross:
and getting students from both schools to create a small
Ashley Cross:
language model, making decisions right based on kind of a set of
Ashley Cross:
guidelines or insights or ethical standards for historical
Ashley Cross:
avatar. And at Pinecrest, and then at Woodward, they do the
Ashley Cross:
same thing, same historical character, but maybe a different
Ashley Cross:
set of decisions. Those two school groups interview each
Ashley Cross:
other's AI avatar, and they might get very different
Ashley Cross:
responses, right? And so that brings up all sorts of
Ashley Cross:
opportunities for understanding and learning, and gets us into
Ashley Cross:
those deeper thinking questions around ethical dilemmas that I
Ashley Cross:
think we want to expose our students to in this emerging
Ashley Cross:
tech space. Thank
Ashley Cross:
you. All right, so Jalen and Maggie, I want to go
Ashley Cross:
back to you guys for a minute. So if we think about our
Ashley Cross:
audience here, they're representing schools from all
Ashley Cross:
across the nation. What do you wish? What is a message that you
Ashley Cross:
would like to get out? What do you wish that teachers knew, not
Ashley Cross:
just your teachers, but all teachers. What do you wish that
Ashley Cross:
they knew when they're thinking about all of these emerging
Ashley Cross:
technologies and bringing in these new tools. I
Maggie:
just want to speak for. I think a vast majority when I
Maggie:
say that students not only want to know how to use AI, but like
Maggie:
they want to know when they don't need to use it. And I feel
Maggie:
like that there's like an unclear line there on what
Maggie:
skills that we can do by ourselves. And it gets kind of
Maggie:
confusing. I can say that I don't really use AI for busy
Maggie:
work. I use it for tackling big projects and problems and
Maggie:
breaking down things. And I also think that administrators at my
Maggie:
school, at least, are not on the same page all the time, and that
Maggie:
there's a gap there, and it can get really confusing when some
Maggie:
teachers are policing chat GP while others are implementing it
Maggie:
and using it. And I think that for some of my classes, teachers
Maggie:
use it, and they allow us to, like, use it as a prompt and use
Maggie:
a Chat GPT prompt to help us in our assignment. And this is
Maggie:
really helpful, because that's how I know the teacher knows I
Maggie:
can do the rest by myself. And I think that's just, like, where
Maggie:
it gets really confusing on what we should be doing by ourselves
Maggie:
and what we shouldn't and I don't want to lose those skills.
Maggie:
And I get worried about that.
Jalen:
One thing that you said that I'm gonna, like, hone in
Jalen:
on, is when you were talking about how there are certain
Jalen:
traits, or, like, certain things that teachers don't really know
Jalen:
that we don't really need Chat GPT for because I remember in
Jalen:
our class, in Mr. Cole's class, we were talking about how there
Jalen:
will be like, for top writing students, for example, like Chat
Jalen:
GPT or like other forms of like emergent technology, might
Jalen:
actually hinder them when it comes to writing. If they're
Jalen:
like, already strong by themselves, but if you're like,
Jalen:
less strong in that subject, and you're like, relying on Chat
Jalen:
GPT, that's how you get boosted. Just to add on to also, when
Jalen:
you're talking about like, how there's kind of, like, a lack of
Jalen:
a universal idea of like, this is what we want AI to mean for
Jalen:
students, and this is how we're going to implement AI to
Jalen:
students for all different classes, all different like
Jalen:
programs that you might be in. One thing that in particular I
Jalen:
was thinking about is I didn't know before, like, going to like
Jalen:
Mr. Cole his class, that even like the way that you seek Chat
Jalen:
GPT, like prompt wise, it's like you have to be, like, really
Jalen:
specific on it if you want the best of the best results. And
Jalen:
this is coming from I was tasked with, like, using Chat GPT for
Jalen:
most of the school year, for like, helping me with like
Jalen:
essays, or like, helping me with tackling big projects and
Jalen:
bringing them down to smaller levels. So for me to, like, only
Jalen:
have learned that just last quarter that was mean I was
Jalen:
missing, and I'm a sophomore, so I was missing all of like, the
Jalen:
full potential of Chat GPT in freshman year and all three
Jalen:
quarters of my sophomore year. So just going forward, one of
Jalen:
the things that I think teachers should know is that, first off,
Jalen:
make sure everyone knows the fullest capacity, or at least
Jalen:
most of like, what Chat GPT can do, and then working on
Jalen:
implementing it universally to like all students.
Ashley Cross:
Yeah. Thank you. So when we were talking about
Ashley Cross:
what all they're doing in this class, y'all, I found something
Ashley Cross:
really interesting. So they did one of the same assignments that
Ashley Cross:
I did in my course. This is working on my doctorate. They
Ashley Cross:
did that exact same assignment in high school, and that's
Ashley Cross:
looking at science fiction. And science fiction authors have
Ashley Cross:
been giving us warnings and also making predictions for many,
Ashley Cross:
many years. What are some of those lessons, or some of the
Ashley Cross:
things that you guys pulled out that you'd like to share with
Ashley Cross:
our audience today?
Jalen:
So one of the biggest things was actually from the
Jalen:
last science fiction story that we read, which is the best one,
Jalen:
in my opinion, and that is the perfect match by Ken Liu. The
Jalen:
story basically talks about how there is the main character, I
Jalen:
think his name was Psy, and the AI in this setting has evolved
Jalen:
into super intelligence. Basically means that it has a
Jalen:
mind of its own, or like it's able to think on its own. And so
Jalen:
Tilly is able to basically create the perfect life fore in
Jalen:
exchange for giving up all of his privacy to Tilly. And so
Jalen:
what I was seeing was that how AI throughout the whole entire
Jalen:
like, course, we were seeing in these science fiction novels,
Jalen:
how the AI, at first started with, like, the professional.
Jalen:
I'm going to help you with your work. I'm gonna help you with
Jalen:
job, just helping you execute so that you can have more time to
Jalen:
like, be at home, be with your family, chill out, whatever. But
Jalen:
then as you keep on going with these novels, it evolved to now
Jalen:
this AI is like focusing on your personal life. And so how I kind
Jalen:
of see that even now, is that just the other day, one of my
Jalen:
friends was like, joking around about, like, how there are
Jalen:
people who are teenagers who are seeking, like, Chat GPT for
Jalen:
like, venting, or like, telling them about, like, stuff that's
Jalen:
going on personally and so with that, it's like, because, as
Jalen:
Miss reedy was saying earlier, how it's like, the one thing
Jalen:
that, like aI cannot do as well as humans, is make meaning out
Jalen:
of things. So with that being said, teenagers are currently
Jalen:
feeling comfortable enough with AI rather than, let's say, a
Jalen:
school counselor, let's say with a mental health resource, to the
Jalen:
point that they are willing to let an AI make meaning out of
Jalen:
very, very, very emotionally like, very emotionally full,
Jalen:
like, situations. And so what that had me think is like, when
Jalen:
we think about AI, and we think about like, AI evolving and
Jalen:
being implemented into schools and just emergent technology
Jalen:
period, I still think that at the very forefront we should
Jalen:
prioritize mental health. Because if these Amen Right, can
Jalen:
we like, yes daily. Because at the baseline, it's like if we
Jalen:
are not as trustworthy of our mental health resources to the
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point that we see teenagers willing to share very
Jalen:
emotionally heavy subjects to AI, then that is something that
Jalen:
we need to call into question when it comes to just schools
Jalen:
across the country and the mental health resource across
Jalen:
the country.
Jalen:
Dr. Patrick Schuermann: Thank all
Ashley Cross:
right panel, so we are coming to our closing
Ashley Cross:
question here, and so in the past, we have gotten some things
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wrong. Do you have any insights on how we could learn from some
Ashley Cross:
of those mistakes with our technology in the past, as we
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think about our youth, even some of how this has been applied to
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schools, and what we might learn from those mistakes and do right
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this time,
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Dr. Patrick Schuermann: I would say not focusing on one
Ashley Cross:
particular thing right. But I think that the pattern where we
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get it wrong might be where we don't keep the focus always,
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kind of mission aligned, student focused always the tools, right
Ashley Cross:
are only as powerful as the learning and the experiences
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that they catalyze. And everything needs to be focused
Ashley Cross:
on helping to generate creative, compassionate leaders of the
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future, right, the jalens and the Maggies of the future. And
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whenever we take the eye off of that, and don't understand the
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tremendous capacity building that is a part of kind of
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leveraging any new technology. That's where we go wrong. But I
Ashley Cross:
know there are plenty of great examples of that
Vriti Saraf:
totally agree with that, and I would say, Let's
Vriti Saraf:
lean more heavily on the pedagogy we know works really
Vriti Saraf:
well. So project based learning, Universal Design for Learning,
Vriti Saraf:
inquiry based learning, design thinking, all of these things we
Vriti Saraf:
know are really effective strategies, and we've been using
Vriti Saraf:
them for decades, for very long time. Let's not move away from
Vriti Saraf:
those. Those actually work really, really well. Let's
Vriti Saraf:
integrate technology into those and not think of technology as
Vriti Saraf:
the next version of that. It's the version that will enhance
Vriti Saraf:
what we're already doing. Really, really well, of course,
Vriti Saraf:
with the caveat that you are doing those things well, right?
Vriti Saraf:
You do want to focus on the student centered pedagogies
Vriti Saraf:
rather than the didactic ones and the teacher centered ones.
Vriti Saraf:
So you know definitely what Patrick said. But also really
Vriti Saraf:
think about the. Pedagogies. And if you think about the teachers
Vriti Saraf:
that already know these pedagogies and are very reticent
Vriti Saraf:
to implement technology, you're going to find it a lot easier to
Vriti Saraf:
approach them and for them to be much more open to technology if
Vriti Saraf:
you're coming at the technology through the lens of pedagogy.
Vriti Saraf:
And that's really, I think, one of the biggest takeaways that I
Vriti Saraf:
have with the changing of technology over the last, you
Vriti Saraf:
know, 2030, years is we often look at technology as like the
Vriti Saraf:
next thing, rather than the thing that we can enhance what
Vriti Saraf:
we're doing really well now.
Vriti Saraf:
Dr. Jacob Farinholt: So AI is here now, and so we have the
Vriti Saraf:
technology available. And now that it's here, we're looking
Vriti Saraf:
at, okay, now, how do we use this responsibly? How do we
Vriti Saraf:
develop standardized pedagogy? How do we do all of these things
Vriti Saraf:
to enable accessibility and so forth? But we're doing that
Vriti Saraf:
after it's been built. We have an opportunity now with quantum
Vriti Saraf:
to start doing that ahead of the technology and so really, I
Vriti Saraf:
would just advocate for everything that we are trying to
Vriti Saraf:
address now with AI, do it for quantum two and do it now so
Vriti Saraf:
that when it is available and accessible and useful, we're
Vriti Saraf:
doing it right.
Ashley Cross:
Okay, so I want to thank our panel. Y'all did an
Ashley Cross:
amazing job. Jalen for president, like y'all are
Ashley Cross:
fantastic. Let's give them a round of applause. You.
Peter Frank:
You This has been talking technology with Atlas,
Peter Frank:
produced by the Association of Technology Leaders in
Peter Frank:
Independent Schools. For more information about Atlas and
Peter Frank:
Atlas membership, please visit theatlas.org if you enjoyed this
Peter Frank:
discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and share this
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