A New Philosophy on Digital Health and Wellness with Rachael Rachau & Patty Sinkler
Rachael Rachau and Patty Sinkler of the Collegiate School join the podcast to discuss their innovative shift from digital citizenship to a broader digital health and wellness curriculum. They share how using anonymized student screen-time data sparks powerful conversations and how a new phone-free policy has delightfully increased student engagement.
- From Digital Citizenship to Digital Health and Wellness, slide deck from presentation at ATLIS Annual Conference 2025
- Example digital health and wellness curriculum for 9th grade, lessons and activities
- Center for Humane Technology, organization leveraging public messaging, policy, and tech expertise to enact change in the tech ecosystem and beyond
- The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt
- Screenwise: Helping Kids Thrive (and Survive) in Their Digital World by Devorah Heitner
- Stolen Focus: Why You Can't Pay Attention--and How to Think Deeply Again by Johann Hari
- Growing Up in Public: Coming of Age in a Digital World by Devorah Heitner
- Common Sense Media
- Google's Teachable Machine
- Photos of Christina's daughter's "teacher supplies haul" - Photo1 | Photo2
Transcript
Peter Frank:
Nick, welcome to Talking technology with Atlas,
Peter Frank:
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
Peter Frank:
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Peter Frank:
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
Peter Frank:
special guests from the Independent School community,
Peter Frank:
and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Peter Frank:
And now please welcome your host. Kristina llewellen,
Christina Lewellen:
hi everyone, and welcome back to talking
Christina Lewellen:
technology with Atlas. I'm Kristina llewellen, the
Christina Lewellen:
president and CEO of the Association of technology
Christina Lewellen:
leaders in independent schools.
Bill Stites:
And I am Bill Stites, the Director of
Bill Stites:
Technology at Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New
Bill Stites:
Jersey,
Hiram Cuevas:
and I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of
Hiram Cuevas:
Information Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher
Hiram Cuevas:
school in Richmond, Virginia.
Unknown:
Hello guys. How are you today? Doing? Well, good. Yeah,
Unknown:
it's temperatures a little lower today, indeed. Yeah,
Christina Lewellen:
it's a little bit more mild as we're
Christina Lewellen:
rounding out the summer. It's so good to see you guys, and it's
Christina Lewellen:
funny because as we're rounding out the summer, and things are
Christina Lewellen:
kind of chilling out, and we're sort of moving towards school.
Christina Lewellen:
We're just a few days away from seeing each other in person.
Christina Lewellen:
Indeed, we're going to be together in Columbus, Ohio.
Unknown:
That's kind of cool. I'm looking forward to that
Unknown:
absolutely. For
Christina Lewellen:
our listeners, we have an atlas
Christina Lewellen:
board retreat that we always do in the final weekend of July,
Christina Lewellen:
which is kind of a busy time of year for folks, but also
Christina Lewellen:
sometimes is the best time of year to be in a strategic
Christina Lewellen:
mindset. And so we get our board together, and Hiram, of course,
Christina Lewellen:
is an atlas board member, and Bill, you are an incoming Atlas
Christina Lewellen:
certification Council board member. So this is going to be
Christina Lewellen:
fun. We're going to get together, and we're going to
Christina Lewellen:
talk about governance and strategy and big picture things.
Bill Stites:
I'm very much looking forward to it. It's sad
Bill Stites:
to say this, but this will be probably the major point in my
Bill Stites:
summer vacation time, the only time I'm actually getting away,
Bill Stites:
just to give you an idea of how my summer is going, but to spend
Bill Stites:
time with Hiram and Kristina, and to be able to, in this new
Bill Stites:
role, tell Peter Frank what to do on a regular basis. Is just
Bill Stites:
going
Christina Lewellen:
to be bill, you're wrong, dude. That's not
Christina Lewellen:
how it works. Nope. Sorry,
Bill Stites:
that's not it. Please, please. I want it to be
Bill Stites:
that I need it to be that I need something. Just give me that at
Bill Stites:
least once.
Christina Lewellen:
No, I think it's a good thing Hiram, that
Christina Lewellen:
bill's coming to this training. We got some governance work to
Christina Lewellen:
do, sir. That is not how this works.
Hiram Cuevas:
But Bill, we do get to watch Christina throw
Hiram Cuevas:
axes. Yep.
Bill Stites:
Oh, I can't wait for that. It is a melee weapon,
Bill Stites:
as you know, Hiram, it is indeed,
Christina Lewellen:
that is a part of the mix this time. So
Christina Lewellen:
hey on a series. Now, I wanted to ask you guys a quick question
Christina Lewellen:
before we welcome our guests here, and that is, whenever
Christina Lewellen:
you're looking at strategy and what comes next for your school,
Christina Lewellen:
in our case, for the organization, there's always
Christina Lewellen:
these moments where you're doing a certain thing for a while, and
Christina Lewellen:
it made sense. It made all the sense in the world. And then as
Christina Lewellen:
you grow, or as you evolve, or as your school community's needs
Christina Lewellen:
evolve, there's a moment where you might have to pivot. And
Christina Lewellen:
I've been talking to some schools and some tech leaders
Christina Lewellen:
around the country this summer, and I'm hearing about a lot of
Christina Lewellen:
them having to pivot. And it makes sense, given that some of
Christina Lewellen:
that is around AI and the prevalence of it, and the
Christina Lewellen:
faculty using it and policies and all that fun stuff. But I'm
Christina Lewellen:
just curious, can you guys think of a time when you were walking
Christina Lewellen:
a certain path for your school and then suddenly you kind of
Christina Lewellen:
woke up one day and kind of went, you know what? Not sure
Christina Lewellen:
that's serving us anymore. It's time to shift a little
Bill Stites:
bit. So I will be right with our guests who are
Bill Stites:
with us today in terms of blaming collegiate for my pivot
Bill Stites:
moment, specifically Jamie Brito, back when he was here, in
Bill Stites:
that I can distinctly remember. And it wasn't one of those
Bill Stites:
moments where it was a big shift. Well, maybe it was a big
Bill Stites:
shift in terms of our approach to cybersecurity. You know, as
Bill Stites:
an all Mac shop back in the day, it was like, you know, you
Bill Stites:
didn't have to worry about much because Macs weren't that big of
Bill Stites:
a target of different things. And in talking to Jamie and
Bill Stites:
hearing about his story, and hearing about the work that he
Bill Stites:
did in that area, that was kind of like my aha moment. I think I
Bill Stites:
need to focus in here and really start thinking about that, and
Bill Stites:
I'll be frank ever since that conversation in that day,
Bill Stites:
cybersecurity, just privacy, dealing with all these issues
Bill Stites:
that come up with all these different services, these AI
Bill Stites:
services, where is our data going? How are we doing? All
Bill Stites:
this stuff really became front and center in the work that I'm
Bill Stites:
doing, if not on a daily basis, on a regular basis, with
Bill Stites:
everything that goes on with what we're trying to do at our
Bill Stites:
schools. I
Hiram Cuevas:
concur with you, Bill, because when Jamie gave
Hiram Cuevas:
that presentation, I took that work and kind of did the red,
Hiram Cuevas:
yellow, green format with some of the best practices and
Hiram Cuevas:
brought them back here to St Christopher. And then I really
Hiram Cuevas:
had this aha moment when the pivot was as a result of us
Hiram Cuevas:
moving from on prem software to cloud based software, and that
Hiram Cuevas:
move to cloud based software introduced a level of complexity
Hiram Cuevas:
that most schools were nowhere near ready for or prepared for.
Hiram Cuevas:
And when you start looking at the Terms of Service and the
Hiram Cuevas:
data privacy, people were signing up left and right for
Hiram Cuevas:
various services and calling, oh, this is freeware, and we
Hiram Cuevas:
would go ahead and use it in our labs, and had zero understanding
Hiram Cuevas:
of what that meant until the conversations, I think, really
Hiram Cuevas:
blossomed from Jamie's initial work and the article that he
Hiram Cuevas:
wrote about what he experienced. So this a good time to give an
Hiram Cuevas:
homage to the Collegiate School.
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, and that leads us right into
Christina Lewellen:
welcoming our guests. This is all on the brain for you guys,
Christina Lewellen:
because our guests are indeed from collegiate in Richmond,
Christina Lewellen:
Virginia, I would love to welcome to the pod patty.
Christina Lewellen:
Sinclair, you are the head of instructional technology. You're
Christina Lewellen:
a robotics mentor at the Collegiate School. And Rachel
Christina Lewellen:
Rakau, you are a technology coach and integrator, also a
Christina Lewellen:
robotics mentor at collegiate Welcome friends. How are you
Christina Lewellen:
today?
Patty Sinkler:
Great. Thank you for having us. I am channeling
Patty Sinkler:
Jamie Britto, thinking about when we actually switched from
Patty Sinkler:
servers on site at school and we made the switch to Google
Patty Sinkler:
products and changed our email from first class, and our
Patty Sinkler:
teachers revolted. Of course they did, because you couldn't,
Patty Sinkler:
well, first of all, it was change, right? And you couldn't
Patty Sinkler:
unsend a message in the early days of Google Mail, and our
Patty Sinkler:
teachers did not like that. They couldn't unsend something within
Patty Sinkler:
our first class system.
Christina Lewellen:
It's so crazy. I mean, it sounds like
Christina Lewellen:
Jamie on the brain. He is now, of course, out on the west
Christina Lewellen:
coast, but he was an East Coast technology leader in Richmond,
Christina Lewellen:
Virginia when I first started at Atlas. So it sounds like a lot
Christina Lewellen:
of change there. Let's start with you, Rachel, tell us a
Christina Lewellen:
little bit about your role at collegiate. Let's just start by
Christina Lewellen:
talking a little bit about what you guys do there. And also, if
Christina Lewellen:
you don't mind, give everybody a little sense of what the
Christina Lewellen:
collegiate school's population is like.
Rachel Rachau:
Yeah, as you mentioned, I am a technology
Rachel Rachau:
integrator. I am a tech coach. I work with the robotics team and
Rachel Rachau:
just stem in general here at collegiate, a big shift I had
Rachel Rachau:
made was from being an English teacher into a graduate program
Rachel Rachau:
on cognitive development and got into screens. And the brain was
Rachel Rachau:
something I was very interested in, and then moved over to
Rachel Rachau:
collegiate as they needed a tech coach. But I brought with me
Rachel Rachau:
this real passion for digital health and wellness, digital
Rachel Rachau:
citizenship. At the time, the idea of like, how does our
Rachel Rachau:
relationship with our screens impact us cognitively and
Rachel Rachau:
physically? And luckily for me, collegiate was very open and
Rachel Rachau:
ready to embrace giving me a lot of freedom and developing
Rachel Rachau:
curriculum in that. And so I spend most of my day doing one
Rachel Rachau:
of those three things, tech coaching, robotics or digital
Rachel Rachau:
health and wellness. I think if we're talking about the
Rachel Rachau:
population of collegiate it's really cool we have such a large
Rachel Rachau:
school comparatively for independent schools, and that
Rachel Rachau:
was such a gift for me, because a big part of how I like to
Rachel Rachau:
approach digital health and wellness is also through this,
Rachel Rachau:
like collecting student screen data and student performance
Rachel Rachau:
data, and then using it to spark conversations about how our tech
Rachel Rachau:
use might be impacting our population. So it's one thing to
Rachel Rachau:
look at like large numbers and say national trends, and it's
Rachel Rachau:
another thing to look at your population and say what trends
Rachel Rachau:
you're seeing at your school. And a benefit to collegiate
Rachel Rachau:
being so large, we have a lot of students to work with, around
Rachel Rachau:
1700 Yeah, 1700 and so since we have such a large population, we
Rachel Rachau:
can work towards saying something that's statistically
Rachel Rachau:
significant in trends with our data. And so it just proves to
Rachel Rachau:
be a very interesting conversation that yields very
Rachel Rachau:
rich data and something to look at that I really think lands
Rachel Rachau:
with the kids.
Christina Lewellen:
Awesome, Patty, let's go to you now talk
Christina Lewellen:
to me a little bit about what your role is at collegiate and
Christina Lewellen:
also maybe how you interact and work with Rachel.
Patty Sinkler:
I am the Director of Instructional Technology for
Patty Sinkler:
the entire school, so my biggest role really is to try to support
Patty Sinkler:
teachers and what they're trying to do in the classroom, try to
Patty Sinkler:
make sure they have the tools that they need, whether that be
Patty Sinkler:
devices or software, apps, etc, and also try to respond to kind
Patty Sinkler:
of a decline in when we're using some technology, to make sure
Patty Sinkler:
that when we are using. Something, particularly with the
Patty Sinkler:
littles that it is really important to their academic
Patty Sinkler:
program and not gamey and just filling time, which is what I
Patty Sinkler:
think we've had to try really hard to move away from,
Patty Sinkler:
particularly with some of the uses that kids are doing and
Patty Sinkler:
using devices at home, so we have to combat with that a
Patty Sinkler:
little bit, I think, especially in the middle school well, and
Rachel Rachau:
that's what I appreciate, is Patty works
Rachel Rachau:
directly with me. She's my boss, and she does so much to help us
Rachel Rachau:
grapple with these big picture ideas. And I feel so valued in
Rachel Rachau:
getting to have these conversations about what types
Rachel Rachau:
of tech use and what frameworks we can use to make sure that
Rachel Rachau:
what we're doing is developmentally appropriate.
Rachel Rachau:
That is really challenging students, and that's pushing
Rachel Rachau:
student learning and that the level of intentionality we get
Rachel Rachau:
to apply. We don't have to be so reactive. We get to sit down and
Rachel Rachau:
think, Well, how much or how often should a first grader or
Rachel Rachau:
kindergartner interact with an iPad and what is active versus
Rachel Rachau:
passive tech use? Look here and how can we best develop a
Rachel Rachau:
curriculum and tools for teachers to use to encourage the
Rachel Rachau:
most growth and learning in students, instead of maybe just
Rachel Rachau:
taking time being the tech clown that comes in and keeps them
Rachel Rachau:
busy, so you can do some grading, and so like having
Rachel Rachau:
those shifts has been so natural here, and something that we've
Rachel Rachau:
been able to dedicate time and real energy toward. So we're
Rachel Rachau:
gonna
Christina Lewellen:
back up just a little bit before we dive
Christina Lewellen:
deeper into what you're talking about. Rachel and I have one
Christina Lewellen:
more kind of laying the groundwork conversation type
Christina Lewellen:
question. Hiram is also in Richmond, Virginia, and so I
Christina Lewellen:
would love to just help our listeners who are not familiar
Christina Lewellen:
with that area understand the types of families that would
Christina Lewellen:
choose collegiate What's your ideal student look like, and how
Christina Lewellen:
does a family choose for example, I know Hiram school is
Christina Lewellen:
an all boys school, but what kind of families are attracted
Christina Lewellen:
to the collegiate experience?
Patty Sinkler:
I would say that we have a lot of families that
Patty Sinkler:
are legacy, families that their parents or their grandparents
Patty Sinkler:
went to collegiate. We have a lot of siblings that are here,
Patty Sinkler:
sometimes, depending on our enrollment, that you might get
Patty Sinkler:
your third grader in and not your seventh grader at this
Patty Sinkler:
moment, it's a family school. A lot of people that work here
Patty Sinkler:
have worked here for a long time. People who graduated have
Patty Sinkler:
come back to work. I think it feels to me, even though it's a
Patty Sinkler:
large school, it feels like a family school, like I get to
Patty Sinkler:
work with the four kids in the Smith family, which is really
Patty Sinkler:
nice, because then you get to know their parents, and I think
Patty Sinkler:
we look for kids that are bright and athletic and have interests
Patty Sinkler:
in the theater. You know, we're a big enough school that we can
Patty Sinkler:
provide a lot of different opportunities for kids, and
Patty Sinkler:
hopefully by the time, especially, they're in the Upper
Patty Sinkler:
School, that they're kind of living their passions a little
Patty Sinkler:
bit as well.
Rachel Rachau:
The only thing I would add is what I've noticed,
Rachel Rachau:
especially as someone who is new ish to collegiate I do notice
Rachel Rachau:
that dedication families who have gone here tend to send
Rachel Rachau:
their kids here. So we do have that family feel. We also have
Rachel Rachau:
so many working professionals, academics, doctors, lawyers and
Rachel Rachau:
people who are looking for a challenging and rigorous
Rachel Rachau:
environment for their children. So we have a lot of families
Rachel Rachau:
like that as well. And I think that's something when I was
Rachel Rachau:
coming here, I already had my daughter, and a big part of it
Rachel Rachau:
for me is where would I want my child to go to school and be
Rachel Rachau:
challenged? And so I see a lot of those families that may not
Rachel Rachau:
have that long term legacy Tye, they're choosing it, I think,
Rachel Rachau:
for the diversity of what collegiate offers
Rachel Rachau:
programmatically, but also for what they see as a rigorous
Rachel Rachau:
challenge in their child's education.
Christina Lewellen:
That's very cool. So we invited you on the
Christina Lewellen:
podcast because you decided to present at the annual
Christina Lewellen:
conference, Atlas Conference in Atlanta, and the general topic
Christina Lewellen:
was how your school has sort of tackled this philosophical shift
Christina Lewellen:
from digital citizenship to digital health and wellness.
Christina Lewellen:
We're going to dive into that. We're going to pick that apart.
Christina Lewellen:
I know the guys have a bunch of questions for you on that, but
Christina Lewellen:
before we walk that path, I would love to know why that
Christina Lewellen:
topic? Why did you guys decide to throw your hat into the ring
Christina Lewellen:
and share this journey at the Atlas conference?
Patty Sinkler:
I feel like we're doing something different and
Patty Sinkler:
that it's working, and we wanted to share that with everyone at
Patty Sinkler:
Atlas. I mean, that's really why we did it.
Rachel Rachau:
You were spot on. We started something different
Rachel Rachau:
here. It's something I've been passionate about because I did
Rachel Rachau:
tech coaching in a county outside of Charlottesville for a
Rachel Rachau:
little while, and we taught digital citizenship lessons. And
Rachel Rachau:
I think anyone who's done this job for any amount of time has
Rachel Rachau:
done the dragging the kids through the pre packaged digital
Rachel Rachau:
citizenship lessons that are extremely hard. High quality and
Rachel Rachau:
extremely well cited, but sitting and teaching something
Rachel Rachau:
that was made on a large level always kind of missed. I think
Rachel Rachau:
one student who's being very kind to me said, I appreciate
Rachel Rachau:
you, Mrs. Rock out, but this stuff is just so narky. And I
Rachel Rachau:
had was like, What does narky mean? And it's like,
Rachel Rachau:
disconnected and like tattling, and we're in trouble and they're
Rachel Rachau:
just nagging us. And it's like, you know what? I feel that when
Rachel Rachau:
I'm teaching these lessons that I believe in, but the content is
Rachel Rachau:
so important as we move more and more into a world where our
Rachel Rachau:
digital lives become our lives, our ability to understand how
Rachel Rachau:
our interaction with the digital world, with digital tools, with
Rachel Rachau:
digital social spaces, not just impacts our health, but impacts
Rachel Rachau:
every aspect of the way we move through the world. And I think
Rachel Rachau:
that is the content kids really need to connect to and learn
Rachel Rachau:
from in order to be successful moving forward. And so the
Rachel Rachau:
importance of it just didn't match the way those lessons were
Rachel Rachau:
landing. And here at collegiate, they gave us a lot of latitude
Rachel Rachau:
to develop a curriculum and do something that connected with
Rachel Rachau:
kids, and when we started to get these exciting, positive
Rachel Rachau:
results, we just wanted to share it. So let's go
Christina Lewellen:
into that. Tell us a little bit about what
Christina Lewellen:
the program is like, and why is it different than what we would
Christina Lewellen:
think of as digital citizenship?
Rachel Rachau:
Well, first of all, we connect it to the health
Rachel Rachau:
and wellness curriculum, which gave us time. And I think when
Rachel Rachau:
it comes to digital citizenship curriculum, that was the first
Rachel Rachau:
big issue, is finding time in the regular curriculum to
Rachel Rachau:
deliver these lessons and to do things with the kids, because
Rachel Rachau:
time is at a premium at school, and no one seems to have enough
Rachel Rachau:
of it, and carving aside a chunk is really hard. So that started
Rachel Rachau:
us with this idea that digital citizenship and the concepts
Rachel Rachau:
that exist within digital citizenship completely exist
Rachel Rachau:
within the scope of health and wellness too, even the ones that
Rachel Rachau:
are like being a good friend online, being kind, being
Rachel Rachau:
cognizant of your digital footprint. Well, that impacts
Rachel Rachau:
your health, because your ability to be a citizen among
Rachel Rachau:
your peers, to be in social circles and to both nourish and
Rachel Rachau:
be nourished by your social spaces. That's health and so
Rachel Rachau:
reimagining it as how does this impact my health and the health
Rachel Rachau:
of the people I care about and the health of the people around
Rachel Rachau:
me gave us a more personal in with kids, especially kids who
Rachel Rachau:
are in their early adolescence or adolescence, when they are
Rachel Rachau:
naturally turned more inward, this is a moment in their
Rachel Rachau:
development where they're already thinking about
Rachel Rachau:
themselves, their space within society, and how things impact
Rachel Rachau:
them, how their choices will impact them, as opposed to,
Rachel Rachau:
like, am I a citizen? And that is a developmental place that's
Rachel Rachau:
normal and that we just acknowledge when developing our
Rachel Rachau:
curriculum.
Hiram Cuevas:
So I'm really interested in since it's
Hiram Cuevas:
incorporated into the health and wellness curriculum, how is that
Hiram Cuevas:
done across the three divisions? You're a large school like we
Hiram Cuevas:
are. You've got a lower school, you have a middle school and you
Hiram Cuevas:
have an upper school. You probably have a health and
Hiram Cuevas:
wellness curriculum requirement in the Upper School, you likely
Hiram Cuevas:
have one in the middle school, but it's interwoven in a variety
Hiram Cuevas:
of different places in the Lower School. And then a follow up to
Hiram Cuevas:
that is where does advisory fit into this? So
Bill Stites:
wait, I'm going to add a third piece of this, just
Bill Stites:
to add even more complexity to what we're looking for. How did
Bill Stites:
you actually sell this to the people that were already
Bill Stites:
teaching that health and wellness? Because you made a
Bill Stites:
very good point about finding time and connecting it with
Bill Stites:
things that already exist in the curriculum. What was that give
Bill Stites:
and take like within that context as well?
Patty Sinkler:
I'm gonna let Rachel speak a little bit more
Patty Sinkler:
about Upper School, and I'm just gonna back up a tiny bit and say
Patty Sinkler:
in the Lower School, we are still using, for the most part,
Patty Sinkler:
Common Sense Media and the lessons that are available to
Patty Sinkler:
the younger kids, I think they're fine. For those kids in
Patty Sinkler:
the middle school, we're struggling to get enough
Patty Sinkler:
advisory time. I just recently asked the PE department if we
Patty Sinkler:
could maybe squeeze a little stuff in with their curriculum,
Patty Sinkler:
and that's so full that I don't think we're going to be able to
Patty Sinkler:
do that, so we're going to go back we have worked in the past
Patty Sinkler:
with the librarians and the guidance counselors in the
Patty Sinkler:
middle school. I am across the hall from the eighth grade lead
Patty Sinkler:
advisor, and she and I are always talking about what we
Patty Sinkler:
could do with an advisory with the eighth graders, and which is
Patty Sinkler:
going to lead right into the ninth grade program that we
Patty Sinkler:
have. So we're working definitely in advisory, I would
Patty Sinkler:
say that we've had a little pushback from teachers that are
Patty Sinkler:
advisors that don't feel quite comfortable always delivering
Patty Sinkler:
some of that information that they don't feel knowledgeable
Patty Sinkler:
enough, or whatever. And so. Rachel and I have been working
Patty Sinkler:
on doing some videos and some teaser kind of lessons that they
Patty Sinkler:
could facilitate in their advisory and not have to feel
Patty Sinkler:
like they have to know everything about what they're
Patty Sinkler:
talking about with just engaging the kids.
Rachel Rachau:
And to that end, I mean, this did start as a
Rachel Rachau:
partnership between myself and Annie Richards, who originally
Rachel Rachau:
approached me she knew I was doing work in the realm of
Rachel Rachau:
digital health and wellness, and I will say in middle school and
Rachel Rachau:
eventually in the Lower School, because our goal is to push
Rachel Rachau:
downward. It's a philosophical shift. It's how we deliver it.
Rachel Rachau:
It's how we talk about it with students. It's how we develop
Rachel Rachau:
the lessons. So instead of having conversations around like
Rachel Rachau:
being a good citizen, we talk about, how does this impact our
Rachel Rachau:
health and the health of those around us? So for there, it's
Rachel Rachau:
philosophical shift in the Upper School, Annie approached me and
Rachel Rachau:
said, we'd love to try and make some space for you. And it was
Rachel Rachau:
really a gift of time. We shifted around CPR in that they
Rachel Rachau:
still take CPR, but they don't get official certification. And
Rachel Rachau:
then that made space for this content. That was the ninth
Rachel Rachau:
grade curriculum. And so the other touch points in the health
Rachel Rachau:
curriculum is there's a health retreat day in eighth grade and
Rachel Rachau:
in 10th grade. And so on those retreat days, I have time with
Rachel Rachau:
the entire grade. On those days, we get touch points, we have
Rachel Rachau:
conversations, we do things tailored specifically to the
Rachel Rachau:
grades, and it's done mostly through the counseling
Rachel Rachau:
department, so that side of the health world, and that helps us
Rachel Rachau:
get more time. And so what we've have is a number of big touch
Rachel Rachau:
points in the grades surrounding ninth grade, and then a full
Rachel Rachau:
module in ninth grade. And so our big goal moving forward is
Rachel Rachau:
going to be to start moving the formal lessons down and up so
Rachel Rachau:
that we have more continuity, more opportunities to have those
Rachel Rachau:
conversations and build those conversations. Another good part
Rachel Rachau:
of that is a big part of this curriculum is that we ask
Rachel Rachau:
students to fill out screen surveys. It's a core piece of
Rachel Rachau:
this curriculum here at Colegio that we got really excited
Rachel Rachau:
about. So while they're with us, or leading up to a session, they
Rachel Rachau:
tell us their screen use on their phone for a set amount of
Rachel Rachau:
time, and they fill out a survey. They send a screenshot
Rachel Rachau:
of their screen time so that we can do data validation, and then
Rachel Rachau:
we anonymize the data so that we can look at trends, but then
Rachel Rachau:
what we do is we show it back to the kids. So I've had these
Rachel Rachau:
conversations with students where I've shown them now over
Rachel Rachau:
the last three years, where the average age you get your phone
Rachel Rachau:
can be a predictor for when you get a varsity letter, or if you
Rachel Rachau:
get a varsity letter before 11th or 12th grade. And now this
Rachel Rachau:
isn't statistically significant, but it's starting to show
Rachel Rachau:
trends. And so what we're able to do with this anonymized data,
Rachel Rachau:
and we can have big conversations like that, or we
Rachel Rachau:
can have small conversations where we've noticed that there's
Rachel Rachau:
a trend in the last three years that students primarily got
Rachel Rachau:
their phones between sixth and seventh grade, so right before
Rachel Rachau:
travel, sports begin, and then that age has actually been going
Rachel Rachau:
up, so parents are waiting longer to give their students
Rachel Rachau:
smartphones at collegiate not only is it informing policy at
Rachel Rachau:
the school, but I show data to the kids without their names
Rachel Rachau:
attached, and We have conversations. One of my
Rachel Rachau:
favorite stories was I was teaching a two week long module
Rachel Rachau:
where, in the first week, their screen use had this giant spike,
Rachel Rachau:
and I showed it back to them, and we were talking about it,
Rachel Rachau:
and we realized this was a boys class, and more than half the
Rachel Rachau:
class was on the boys lacrosse team, and they had traveled that
Rachel Rachau:
week over an hour to an event, and they said, Oh, we traveled
Rachel Rachau:
that day, so we're all on our phones. In that conversation,
Rachel Rachau:
all the boys decided that they had a game the next week and
Rachel Rachau:
they weren't going to be on their phones. They brought games
Rachel Rachau:
and they did things on the bus other than being on their
Rachel Rachau:
phones. And when I showed them their data the next week and
Rachel Rachau:
they saw that that drop had dipped, they all yelled in
Rachel Rachau:
class. I went, Yeah, and it was just something fun that they had
Rachel Rachau:
thought to do, but that conversation was just
Rachel Rachau:
springboarded by saying, this is authentically us. This is what
Rachel Rachau:
we're seeing. And then they were like, well, let's challenge
Rachel Rachau:
ourselves. And so I have all of these conversations all the
Rachel Rachau:
time, just based on showing the kids what they do. And it's
Rachel Rachau:
really powerful.
Bill Stites:
But I think is really powerful is when you can
Bill Stites:
take data and actually use it and show students, you can show
Bill Stites:
people what they're actually doing and how it's actually
Bill Stites:
impacting their lives, and that brings real meaning to it. I
Bill Stites:
think that's one of the things. I'll go back to my comment about
Bill Stites:
Jamie earlier, in terms of the way in which we drove home. A
Bill Stites:
lot of the stuff around cyber was to make it more personal,
Bill Stites:
not about what you need to do at a school, but how this impacts
Bill Stites:
you outside of school, in your daily life. And I think this
Bill Stites:
work that you're doing by showing it to them, how it's
Bill Stites:
impacting their day to day, and the amount of time that they're
Bill Stites:
spending on these devices can. Really help inform the decisions
Bill Stites:
that they make. And with that, the question that I have,
Bill Stites:
because this is where we often get a lot of questions, a lot of
Bill Stites:
requests for help, is from our parent body. So how are you
Bill Stites:
sharing this information with parents? How are you talking to
Bill Stites:
them about what you're doing and how you're trying to really
Bill Stites:
improve this digital health and wellness of their students. So
Patty Sinkler:
one of the things that we've done this year is we
Patty Sinkler:
had parent book clubs, mostly targeted at the lower school,
Patty Sinkler:
but also we invited Middle School and upper school parents
Patty Sinkler:
as well. We read three books. We made it as accessible as
Patty Sinkler:
possible. The books were anxious, generation screen wise
Patty Sinkler:
and stolen focus. And so parents chose books based on where their
Patty Sinkler:
kids were at and where they were at. So we had a lot of people
Patty Sinkler:
that chose stolen focus because they were concerned about their
Patty Sinkler:
own personal use of technology, etc. We met in person, in small
Patty Sinkler:
groups. We did zoom, whatever worked for parents. Rachel and
Patty Sinkler:
I. We met monthly, but there were a week and a half period
Patty Sinkler:
where all we did was parent book talks. It was great
Patty Sinkler:
conversations. We learned a lot from our parents, actually,
Patty Sinkler:
about how they're managing their family and their devices. We did
Patty Sinkler:
have a speaker come in in January, after we had all
Patty Sinkler:
finished all the books we were reading, Devorah Heitner wrote
Patty Sinkler:
screen wise and growing up in public, we had a good turnout
Patty Sinkler:
for her, she zoomed in with us. We were not able to actually
Patty Sinkler:
bring her on campus, and we had a lot of people online and a lot
Patty Sinkler:
of people on campus with us for that. So we're working on that.
Rachel Rachau:
The cool thing about the data is that we can
Rachel Rachau:
use it to have very targeted conversations with our parents,
Rachel Rachau:
and that is what started off this idea of book clubs, was
Rachel Rachau:
that we had gotten a lot of questions from our parents
Rachel Rachau:
about, what should we do, how should we do it? And we wanted
Rachel Rachau:
to start natural conversations. And Patty's right, we had
Rachel Rachau:
hundreds of our parents participating. I don't think we
Rachel Rachau:
had had turnout like this from our parent population, not since
Rachel Rachau:
I had been here for any school based PD opportunity, and we had
Rachel Rachau:
so many different ways they could meet and discuss. But what
Rachel Rachau:
was generated from that was we got to have conversations using
Rachel Rachau:
the data we had collected about what outcomes we were noticing,
Rachel Rachau:
what was normal for a collegiate student, what was typical, what
Rachel Rachau:
was atypical. The parents were so interested in learning if
Rachel Rachau:
what they were doing seemed to match the norm, or if it seemed
Rachel Rachau:
to, you know, like they were invested in a way that I don't
Rachel Rachau:
think we would have gotten them otherwise. While we have these
Rachel Rachau:
conversations that, using a book, targeted what we're all
Rachel Rachau:
grappling with, my daughter's going into second grade, and so
Rachel Rachau:
I had a lot of empathy and connection to what was
Rachel Rachau:
happening, because we're all just trying to figure it out.
Rachel Rachau:
We're all trying to figure out, what does parenting look like
Rachel Rachau:
when my child can access anything on the internet or has
Rachel Rachau:
these tools that can be so incredible but can also be so
Rachel Rachau:
incredibly distracting, what does good parenting look like?
Rachel Rachau:
And so I showed one group data about like, average age that a
Rachel Rachau:
student gets a smartphone. So parents were thinking, well, a
Rachel Rachau:
lot of kids get it, you know, in middle school or as they
Rachel Rachau:
approach middle school, but we want to bring that down. And
Rachel Rachau:
obviously the parents that opt into a parenting in the Digital
Rachel Rachau:
Age book club are really aware of parenting around smartphones.
Rachel Rachau:
And so the conversation shifted, and one parent brought up Voice
Rachel Rachau:
over IP phones. So like, it looks like a typical house phone
Rachel Rachau:
lives in your house, but just uses the internet. And was
Rachel Rachau:
talking about, well, I use this as a tool so that my child can
Rachel Rachau:
call other children without having to go through me. I don't
Rachel Rachau:
have to coordinate play dates. They can use this device, but I
Rachel Rachau:
don't have to worry about them having a smartphone and all the
Rachel Rachau:
things that come with that. Well, then suddenly, you know,
Rachel Rachau:
dozens and dozens of parents picked up on it, and now we have
Rachel Rachau:
a grade that has, like a quarter of them have these Voice over IP
Rachel Rachau:
phones, and it was an idea generated by a parent using our
Rachel Rachau:
data as a springboard for the conversation. It was just so
Rachel Rachau:
powerful and fun.
Patty Sinkler:
One of the things that we're also we didn't
Patty Sinkler:
actually implement this last year, but we're going to try and
Patty Sinkler:
work on that for this year, is we have a weekly newsletter that
Patty Sinkler:
goes out to all of our families. It comes out from the
Patty Sinkler:
Development Office Communications, etc. But then
Patty Sinkler:
there's also letters from each of the division heads that go
Patty Sinkler:
out, and we are going to try to insert ourselves a little bit in
Patty Sinkler:
that weekly message. And either that goes to the entire
Patty Sinkler:
population, or if we want to just say something to the middle
Patty Sinkler:
school parents, we can ask the middle school head to add some
Patty Sinkler:
bits and pieces in there. And. That letter that goes home
Patty Sinkler:
weekly. So it's an opportunity. I think the newsletters are well
Patty Sinkler:
read by the parent population, which is nice, because they're
Patty Sinkler:
trying to find out what's going on with their kids at their
Patty Sinkler:
school.
Hiram Cuevas:
I'm curious about how you're keeping this content
Hiram Cuevas:
current and relevant in order to satisfy what I would call the
Hiram Cuevas:
snicker test for the kids. And then, as you guys are growing
Hiram Cuevas:
this program, there's only one Rachel, there's only one patty.
Hiram Cuevas:
How are you looking at the overall expansion from an FTE
Hiram Cuevas:
perspective, given the positive impact it seems to be having
Hiram Cuevas:
already,
Rachel Rachau:
I love that question. I love the snicker
Rachel Rachau:
test as a question or something to consider, because it's almost
Rachel Rachau:
certainly what started this whole thing. Because when I'm
Rachel Rachau:
losing my audience, I feel it viscerally. And there's nothing
Rachel Rachau:
worse than standing up in front of a bunch of 13 year olds and
Rachel Rachau:
knowing that they are cringing at you like I can feel it coming
Rachel Rachau:
off them. And so I think that was actually an enormously
Rachel Rachau:
driving factor in why this curriculum exists this way.
Rachel Rachau:
Because what I noticed was the curriculums we were using, so
Rachel Rachau:
many of them, were incredible, research based, so high quality,
Rachel Rachau:
but the kids just didn't connect with it. They just didn't see
Rachel Rachau:
themselves in it. And so without that buy in was difficult to
Rachel Rachau:
teach and feel like we were getting through this curriculum
Rachel Rachau:
focuses on brain development and psychology, and we talk about
Rachel Rachau:
how tech interplays with something in our brains. So the
Rachel Rachau:
lesson is more focused on your brain looks like this right now.
Rachel Rachau:
Here's how technology is kind of interacting with that. And then
Rachel Rachau:
we do an activity that illustrates the point. And so
Rachel Rachau:
I'll give you an example. One thing we talk about is focus and
Rachel Rachau:
flow. So the idea that our brains learn better when we're
Rachel Rachau:
dialed in. And we talk about top down focus and bottom up focus.
Rachel Rachau:
So top down focus. I need to sit here and research and study for
Rachel Rachau:
this science test coming up, and I'm going to sit down and read
Rachel Rachau:
my notes. I am telling myself to focus and then stimulus driven
Rachel Rachau:
focus. So I'm out taking a walk in the woods and a bear jumps
Rachel Rachau:
out of a bush, I have to immediately react to that sudden
Rachel Rachau:
emergency, and bottom up focus is designed to shut down top
Rachel Rachau:
down focus. So we talk about that as an example, and what
Rachel Rachau:
that means, and how one system was designed to take over the
Rachel Rachau:
other system, and that our phones and our technology were
Rachel Rachau:
also designed to interact with us like a bear. So our phone was
Rachel Rachau:
meant to tap into that bottom up stimulus driven focus. It's
Rachel Rachau:
meant to be something we treat as an emergency, and we talk
Rachel Rachau:
about examples of that and what we see, but it's really grounded
Rachel Rachau:
in that cognitive science, and then we go off and do something.
Rachel Rachau:
So one of the things I like to do as an activity. I think the
Rachel Rachau:
activity that's currently paired with the lesson is we do a focus
Rachel Rachau:
test. There are a couple online tests that you can find that are
Rachel Rachau:
pretty high quality, that'll test your capacity for focus and
Rachel Rachau:
deep focus. And so I take half the kids, and I make them go sit
Rachel Rachau:
mindfully by themselves, out in the field, right outside the
Rachel Rachau:
classroom, for 10 minutes. And then the others, I have them get
Rachel Rachau:
on their devices and play their favorite game for 10 minutes.
Rachel Rachau:
And then we come back and we all take the focus test, and then we
Rachel Rachau:
put the results on the board in the two groups, and we see how
Rachel Rachau:
far off the deviation is for the group that was being mindful for
Rachel Rachau:
10 minutes from the ones that were playing their games. And
Rachel Rachau:
usually the separation is so stark. There have been a couple
Rachel Rachau:
classes where it was just like, womp, womp, because it wasn't
Rachel Rachau:
that far off. But then we go, look, we just did this to
Rachel Rachau:
illustrate the point. And for a group of students who are really
Rachel Rachau:
concerned about doing well on their next test that really hits
Rachel Rachau:
home, they go, Oh, okay, so starting with cognitive science
Rachel Rachau:
and something very concrete they can latch on to and then doing
Rachel Rachau:
an example or an activity that proves the point. It's hard to
Rachel Rachau:
cringe at that, because they go, Hmm, I get so many more HMMs
Rachel Rachau:
now.
Hiram Cuevas:
I love that description, because you're just
Hiram Cuevas:
hitting a biology lesson in the fight or flight response, and
Hiram Cuevas:
then the impact of dopamine as well, and your description of
Hiram Cuevas:
the bear jumping out of the bush and how it distracts you
Hiram Cuevas:
intentionally, that made a connection for me almost
Hiram Cuevas:
immediately. And I was like, What a great way to describe
Hiram Cuevas:
that, as opposed to just saying, everybody's heard fight or
Hiram Cuevas:
flight, but they didn't really connect how it impacts the other
Hiram Cuevas:
focus that is required of you for deep focus. I love
Christina Lewellen:
it. Thank you. So one of the questions
Christina Lewellen:
that I have, Rachel is that you mentioned a couple times that
Christina Lewellen:
you guys have a large enough student body that you're
Christina Lewellen:
leveraging some data. Can you give us some examples of that?
Rachel Rachau:
Yeah, absolutely. It originally started out as
Rachel Rachau:
just a springboard for conversation we would see what.
Rachel Rachau:
Know how much time they spent on their devices, and talk about it
Rachel Rachau:
up against national averages or other outcomes as the data. I
Rachel Rachau:
mean, because now it's a four year long data set, with every
Rachel Rachau:
ninth grader taking it for a two week period. So like giving us
Rachel Rachau:
daily data for two weeks, and then once in every grade after
Rachel Rachau:
that, and then three times in eighth grade, and then so on. It
Rachel Rachau:
just ends up having this enormous amount of data where we
Rachel Rachau:
can talk about like when kids are using their phones more when
Rachel Rachau:
they're using it less when they receive phones. We also have a
Rachel Rachau:
lot of qualitative data where I ask questions. One of the most
Rachel Rachau:
powerful questions I asked was, What would you tell your parents
Rachel Rachau:
or an adult in your life about kids and their phones? And I got
Rachel Rachau:
a lot of typical responses, or I tend to get them that's like,
Rachel Rachau:
oh, it's not that bad. But we can also see trends in how it's
Rachel Rachau:
changing, like they're not trying to defend it as much as
Rachel Rachau:
they are being reflective about their own screen use, their own
Rachel Rachau:
phone use. But the best answer I got was a student said, I wish
Rachel Rachau:
my parents knew that it's not really a choice for us. This
Rachel Rachau:
person said, my friend whose parents take their phone at
Rachel Rachau:
night when they're not in the chat group at 3am it's because
Rachel Rachau:
their parents have their phone if I'm not in the chat group at
Rachel Rachau:
3am it's because I'm being rude, and it's something I put up
Rachel Rachau:
every time I speak to parents about the protective factor of
Rachel Rachau:
parenting of the adults in our children's lives, because it
Rachel Rachau:
shows how much they do crave our structure and our support. And I
Rachel Rachau:
know that child would look their parents in the eye and say,
Rachel Rachau:
don't take my phone. I need it, but we'll be vulnerable in that
Rachel Rachau:
moment. So we use that to have these conversations and talk
Rachel Rachau:
about what we're seeing in that qualitative sense. But then we
Rachel Rachau:
have started dabbling into connecting it to things like GPA
Rachel Rachau:
anonymously, always like even from me, the researcher. I
Rachel Rachau:
couldn't tell you any of those who's who in the data set, but I
Rachel Rachau:
can see that I had this student three times over the course of
Rachel Rachau:
three different years for longer chunks, and I can see their
Rachel Rachau:
screen use, and then we can connect it to things like their
Rachel Rachau:
GPA or their sports or their demerit data, like behavioral
Rachel Rachau:
instances, and see if we see trends between time on screen
Rachel Rachau:
and any of those other factors, we can also use the data to have
Rachel Rachau:
conversations about quality of screen use, because I ask them
Rachel Rachau:
what apps they use the most, so I get their most used app in
Rachel Rachau:
addition to their overall screen use. So are they on Facebook, or
Rachel Rachau:
are they on Tiktok? We have a lot of really interesting
Rachel Rachau:
conversations about like, what your average Tiktok user is like
Rachel Rachau:
in our data sets. Like, for example, if Tiktok is your most
Rachel Rachau:
used app, you are almost always in the top quarter of screen
Rachel Rachau:
time among the data. So like, if you're a Tiktok user and that's
Rachel Rachau:
your most used app, you use your screen significantly more than
Rachel Rachau:
your peers overall. And that's an interesting thing. So we've
Rachel Rachau:
had so many cool conversations just based on those trends that
Rachel Rachau:
we're seeing.
Christina Lewellen:
You talked about the Tiktok element, but
Christina Lewellen:
there's also, of course, the AI element that is putting a lot of
Christina Lewellen:
pressure in to our digital wellness. As I wander the
Christina Lewellen:
country and talk to different academic leadership teams, a
Christina Lewellen:
part of what we're talking about is the idea that we need to
Christina Lewellen:
create discerning consumers of AI, which will get harder and
Christina Lewellen:
harder, because just blocking it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Christina Lewellen:
You're sending these kids out into the workforce to work for
Christina Lewellen:
people like me, and we use it. And so digital literacy has been
Christina Lewellen:
a thing for a while, right? We want to talk about how Tiktok is
Christina Lewellen:
affecting our outcomes, and that data is certainly pretty cool.
Christina Lewellen:
But what about AI? What does that conversation look like
Christina Lewellen:
right now at collegiate
Rachel Rachau:
it's really interesting because just this
Rachel Rachau:
last year, I updated the digital literacy lesson in the ninth
Rachel Rachau:
grade series specifically to refocus on AI. There's two
Rachel Rachau:
lessons that take on AI. One is just a general understanding of
Rachel Rachau:
what is AI. A big part of the curriculum involves
Rachel Rachau:
understanding social media algorithms and internet
Rachel Rachau:
algorithms. I see it as a little bit of a gift that generative AI
Rachel Rachau:
now exists because kids are seeing what these systems have
Rachel Rachau:
been able to do for a long time, because they get to interact
Rachel Rachau:
with it directly. And I know these are different, like a
Rachel Rachau:
social media algorithm is very different from generative AI,
Rachel Rachau:
but the power that goes into making those things happen at
Rachel Rachau:
that scale is the overlap. A big part of our lessons connect back
Rachel Rachau:
to the center for humane technologies, resources on
Rachel Rachau:
humane technology use and like what algorithms are doing to
Rachel Rachau:
collect data on us and understand us. And so for me, AI
Rachel Rachau:
has been this great springboard into understanding the sheer
Rachel Rachau:
amount of data it takes to know me well enough. To know if I can
Rachel Rachau:
be nudged into buying a Starbucks coffee mid afternoon
Rachel Rachau:
on a Tuesday. And we have a lot of lessons that have students
Rachel Rachau:
exploring that, that nudging, that happens, additionally, when
Rachel Rachau:
it comes to these AI tools, that we're seeing our literacy lesson
Rachel Rachau:
shifted, and now what I have them do is, after learning about
Rachel Rachau:
AI, and what is AI, we get onto Google's teachable machine to
Rachel Rachau:
just show it them how much data is necessary in order for AI to
Rachel Rachau:
make a good guess or prediction at a task. And then I have them
Rachel Rachau:
try, I actually have a hat. There's a bunch of wild things
Rachel Rachau:
in there, like prove Santa's real. And then they have the
Rachel Rachau:
entire internet's disposal in any AI tool to prove their case.
Rachel Rachau:
So I have them create disinformation or misinformation
Rachel Rachau:
and then present it to the class to see how compelling of a case
Rachel Rachau:
they made, and the things they're coming up with and the
Rachel Rachau:
way they're using AI to prove their points is great because
Rachel Rachau:
they're really seeing the power of it to spread lies or to move
Rachel Rachau:
misinformation, but also the power of it to create and to
Rachel Rachau:
build and to assist, but also showing that they really need to
Rachel Rachau:
pay attention to what they read online. I think this is the
Rachel Rachau:
number one skill that kids need to have, is the ability to tell
Rachel Rachau:
what's real and what's not?
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's
Christina Lewellen:
obviously going to get harder. So now you guys have found a
Christina Lewellen:
place, a unique place, to plunk what is traditionally digital
Christina Lewellen:
citizenship into a broader health and wellness program. How
Christina Lewellen:
is it going? So taking a step back? Is it what you were hoping
Christina Lewellen:
for? Is it optimized for your school? Do you think you'll
Christina Lewellen:
leave it where you've put it, because you're seeing some good
Christina Lewellen:
results
Patty Sinkler:
with your kids? I think we're happy with it being
Patty Sinkler:
in ninth grade. Health and wellness. Not every class year
Patty Sinkler:
has a course other than, like, English that everybody has to
Patty Sinkler:
take, so they take health and wellness too in the 10th grade,
Patty Sinkler:
but it's mostly focused on driver's ed and that kind of
Patty Sinkler:
thing. So I don't know that we can always build on health and
Patty Sinkler:
wellness classes. And again, as I said before, we're having
Patty Sinkler:
trouble getting into PE and some of that. So we're gonna stick
Patty Sinkler:
with ninth grade health and wellness and focus on advisory
Patty Sinkler:
lessons. We have a significant amount of time, particularly in
Patty Sinkler:
the middle school during advisory. There's not gobs of
Patty Sinkler:
time, but much more time in the middle school during advisory
Patty Sinkler:
than we have in the Upper School during advisory. They have much
Patty Sinkler:
less time, because the advisors see their kids every single day
Patty Sinkler:
in the middle school. So it's where our probably the greatest
Patty Sinkler:
opportunity is going to be to expand this program
Hiram Cuevas:
in light of the anxious generation. Has
Hiram Cuevas:
collegiate removed phones from the school day, and also, did
Hiram Cuevas:
you request your faculty to use their phones less to be models.
Patty Sinkler:
Absolutely, this year we went completely phone
Patty Sinkler:
free in the Upper School and the middle school, and that is
Patty Sinkler:
device free as well. So you, if you have internet on your watch,
Patty Sinkler:
you have to put your watch in a pocket by advisory. And when you
Patty Sinkler:
come in in the morning and you remove your devices when you
Patty Sinkler:
leave whatever time you might leave school, if you leave for
Patty Sinkler:
an appointment or whatever, or for sports or just the end of
Patty Sinkler:
the day. And we thought that it might be a struggle, and it has
Patty Sinkler:
not been at all. I honestly am very happy with the way that it
Patty Sinkler:
has gone and delighted. We are going to change it a little bit.
Patty Sinkler:
In the middle school, it's harder to know who has devices
Patty Sinkler:
where. In Upper School, pretty much every kid, with a couple
Patty Sinkler:
exceptions, has a device. We're going to survey our middle
Patty Sinkler:
school parents at the beginning of the school year and have them
Patty Sinkler:
tell us who is bringing a phone to school on a regular basis,
Patty Sinkler:
and we will put a card in their pockets to know that there's
Patty Sinkler:
supposed to be a phone in
Christina Lewellen:
there. That's cool, and that's an
Christina Lewellen:
interesting aspect of change management.
Hiram Cuevas:
So I'm also curious. I mean, we're
Hiram Cuevas:
experiencing the success of a phone free environment as well,
Hiram Cuevas:
but it has introduced an interesting challenge for us as
Hiram Cuevas:
well. With physical security, if you were to have a lockdown or
Hiram Cuevas:
whatever, we've lost the capacity, potentially, to reach
Hiram Cuevas:
out to our upper school students who may be on campus or out and
Hiram Cuevas:
about. Now, there are all sorts of other tools that we have
Hiram Cuevas:
available from a risk mitigation perspective, I know you all have
Hiram Cuevas:
those towers. We have towers as well, but there was some solace
Hiram Cuevas:
in being able to reach out with an app and say, Are you okay, or
Hiram Cuevas:
can you check in, or what have you we've lost that capacity
Hiram Cuevas:
now, and I don't know if you all have had similar conversations.
Hiram Cuevas:
Yeah.
Patty Sinkler:
I think that what we are assuming is that if,
Patty Sinkler:
particularly in the Upper School, if the kids have their
Patty Sinkler:
computers, we can message them. And I don't know that we've had
Patty Sinkler:
a lot of conversations about that, Hiram, maybe we should be.
Patty Sinkler:
We don't have kids off campus very much, though, and if they
Patty Sinkler:
are, they're with an adult. So I'm not sure what how much of a
Patty Sinkler:
issue that is for us, but certainly when you're on a huge
Patty Sinkler:
campus style school like this, you've got kids transitioning
Patty Sinkler:
from one building to the next
Hiram Cuevas:
that we have the additional challenge of going up
Hiram Cuevas:
to st Catherine's Yes, which is part of the sister school, so
Hiram Cuevas:
that coordinate nature of that program and your large campus,
Hiram Cuevas:
along with some of your satellite areas as well, make
Hiram Cuevas:
that physical security piece a challenge. Bill is also in a
Hiram Cuevas:
similar situation.
Bill Stites:
I think one of the things that's really
Bill Stites:
interesting, and we've done it to some extent, we don't take
Bill Stites:
them from them at the beginning of the day and return them at
Bill Stites:
the end. We have kind of like the you walk into the classroom
Bill Stites:
and you put your device in the pocket at that point, but I
Bill Stites:
think it's interesting just listening to the conversation,
Bill Stites:
because by putting that away, I think what are the choices that
Bill Stites:
you're making about what you're separating them from? Because
Bill Stites:
it's a matter of what you allow on the device that they're
Bill Stites:
keeping. You mentioned Patty being able to message the kids
Bill Stites:
if they've got the laptop, well, that's one thing that you're
Bill Stites:
then not taking away when they put it in the pouch or they put
Bill Stites:
it away for the day. Because if they can do that, can you do
Bill Stites:
that? And it's about the choices and the decisions that you make,
Bill Stites:
not criticizing either way that you go with it. Because I think
Bill Stites:
that there are definite benefits from just disengaging with
Bill Stites:
screens in general. That is really the overarching piece of
Bill Stites:
it, but it was one of the conversations we had about, what
Bill Stites:
do we block at school, and are we blocking things like Tiktok?
Bill Stites:
Are we blocking some of these other things which I'm blocking
Bill Stites:
them on the network, if you're accessing it from your school
Bill Stites:
issued device, but if you're not taking the phone away from the
Bill Stites:
kid, I'm not blocking anything because I'm not touching
Bill Stites:
anything on that device. So I think it comes down to the
Bill Stites:
conversations that you're having about what your goals are from
Bill Stites:
removing the student from that particular piece of technology
Bill Stites:
or that particular screen, and then how you manage that, how
Bill Stites:
you communicate that to parents, because I think those are really
Bill Stites:
the important things in terms of the expectations that you're
Bill Stites:
setting for the actions that you're taking.
Patty Sinkler:
I think that we did a good job of messaging
Patty Sinkler:
parents, and we got very little feedback when we made this
Patty Sinkler:
announcement. We did have people concerned about being able to
Patty Sinkler:
get to their child, to be able to communicate with them
Patty Sinkler:
instantly. And you know, they can always email them, because
Patty Sinkler:
they do have their computers. We heard from the kids in the upper
Patty Sinkler:
school that they were happy that we did this on the whole and the
Patty Sinkler:
thing that I noticed is that in our gathering places, like in
Patty Sinkler:
the library and in the cafe, which is a lovely gathering
Patty Sinkler:
place, it's so loud in there the kids are talking to each other.
Patty Sinkler:
It is lovely. The person in charge of Student Life got all
Patty Sinkler:
these games for kids. They're playing cards. Hopefully they're
Patty Sinkler:
not paying poker and gambling, but you just saw how much more
Patty Sinkler:
social they were at lunch during a free period. It was
Patty Sinkler:
delightful.
Rachel Rachau:
Well, it's interesting, because that
Rachel Rachau:
actually came up in our conversations too. The kids
Rachel Rachau:
really took it well, especially after a few weeks of living it.
Rachel Rachau:
They were like, yeah, it's okay. I like it better. But when we
Rachel Rachau:
were discussing this idea of, do we let them keep it in their
Rachel Rachau:
backpacks? Do we put them in each room? Part of that
Rachel Rachau:
conversation was, if there was a bear in the corner of the room
Rachel Rachau:
while you were learning math, would you pay attention to math?
Rachel Rachau:
And the kids and those conversations got really good,
Rachel Rachau:
because within the context of a stimulus that can pull your
Rachel Rachau:
focus, we talked about phantom vibrations, and I asked the
Rachel Rachau:
kids, have you ever felt your phone buzz and then reach down
Rachel Rachau:
you don't have your phone on your person? And everybody's
Rachel Rachau:
like, Oh, yeah, absolutely. I was like, that's that connection
Rachel Rachau:
your brain has to that device. It's treating it like a
Rachel Rachau:
dangerous bear or something of high importance that your brain
Rachel Rachau:
has to focus on. And so part of putting them fully away in a
Rachel Rachau:
place that's far from them had to do with giving them that
Rachel Rachau:
psychological break from that stimulus, that idea that as the
Rachel Rachau:
adults were cutting this thing off and giving you that time and
Rachel Rachau:
freedom away from it. And there was again, some early pushback,
Rachel Rachau:
but then it became something where I think that most of the
Rachel Rachau:
kids could recognize the feeling they had after a while. That
Rachel Rachau:
part, for me, was really powerful. I was not fully. On
Rachel Rachau:
board with the idea. I spent a lot of time in the what if we
Rachel Rachau:
need to teach them to manage it better. Camp, not the whole
Rachel Rachau:
time, but a lot of my brain spent time questioning that
Rachel Rachau:
piece just to make sure that it was coming up. But then, after
Rachel Rachau:
deciding it and living it for a while, I was like, Nope, it's
Rachel Rachau:
great. We can learn how to deal with it later.
Christina Lewellen:
That's awesome. Before we go, I do want
Christina Lewellen:
to just ask a quick question of you, and that is about the
Christina Lewellen:
teacher piece of this. So if we have listeners who are
Christina Lewellen:
interested in evolving their programming to have some of
Christina Lewellen:
these conversations and lessons with kids, there's obviously the
Christina Lewellen:
teacher component and changing things, adding more, putting
Christina Lewellen:
more on them. Is there any advice that you have on the
Christina Lewellen:
change management piece for the faculty as you try to roll out
Christina Lewellen:
these programs?
Rachel Rachau:
Yeah, here at collegiate a big piece of it is
Rachel Rachau:
just helping teachers understand that they absolutely have
Rachel Rachau:
everything they need to teach these lessons. So the cognitive
Rachel Rachau:
piece, the mini lesson is packaged, and anyone can pick it
Rachel Rachau:
up and grab it. It's heavily cited, and that piece can be
Rachel Rachau:
delivered. But the powerful piece of this is in the
Rachel Rachau:
exercises, and is in connecting with the kids and having those
Rachel Rachau:
conversations and being your most authentic self. I found
Rachel Rachau:
that this curriculum does the best as in digital health and
Rachel Rachau:
wellness, broadly speaking, when I am sharing my experiences,
Rachel Rachau:
because I think we all go through this struggle in some
Rachel Rachau:
way or another, and even if you're not the expert in the
Rachel Rachau:
field on your phone or how it interacts with you, you still
Rachel Rachau:
use a phone. You still know how it impacts your day to day life
Rachel Rachau:
in good ways and in bad ways, and then joining in those
Rachel Rachau:
conversations as a learner. So like, when we talk about skills
Rachel Rachau:
we may or may not be developing. So there's like, this
Rachel Rachau:
conversation about, did our spatial skills take a hit
Rachel Rachau:
because of maps? And that's a fun conversation we have. But
Rachel Rachau:
like, I had to come at that originally from a place of like,
Rachel Rachau:
well, how does it impact me? Like, I can't get to, you know,
Rachel Rachau:
Pittsburgh right now by myself, without help or without my
Rachel Rachau:
phone, and that is a change. And so bringing your experiences to
Rachel Rachau:
the conversation is enough. That's where the power is to me,
Rachel Rachau:
is we model. I don't need teachers, or our teachers to be
Rachel Rachau:
experts at this, but their experiences with the tech and
Rachel Rachau:
how they've seen it impact kids, themselves and others. That's
Rachel Rachau:
the valuable
Christina Lewellen:
piece. I really appreciate that. Thank
Christina Lewellen:
you for sharing that piece of it. Rachel and Patty, this has
Christina Lewellen:
been such a pleasure to chat with you. It's been such a great
Christina Lewellen:
hour of our time getting to know more about collegiate but in
Christina Lewellen:
particular, to kind of pick apart the presentation that you
Christina Lewellen:
gave at the Atlas conference. Thanks for doing the remix for
Christina Lewellen:
us here and bringing it to our broader audience. I think it's
Christina Lewellen:
fantastic, and certainly I could see where our audience, both in
Christina Lewellen:
person and on the pod, would love to hear how this is going
Christina Lewellen:
over some time. So I hope that you will be open to coming back
Christina Lewellen:
and joining us and giving an update in due time.
Rachel Rachau:
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having us. We
Rachel Rachau:
really appreciate it something we're super excited about, and
Rachel Rachau:
we'd love to hear from anyone or to connect to anybody who's
Rachel Rachau:
interested in doing this kind of work as
Patty Sinkler:
well. I would echo what Rachel just said. I
Patty Sinkler:
appreciate the opportunity to be here, but also, if our members
Patty Sinkler:
in Atlas want to reach out and find out more about the program.
Patty Sinkler:
We're happy to talk to them. I love
Christina Lewellen:
that. That's the Atlas way. That's the
Christina Lewellen:
community right there. Thank you guys so much for that offer.
Christina Lewellen:
This has been such a pleasure, and thank you again for joining
Hiram Cuevas:
us. Could you imagine a saint saying, Go
Hiram Cuevas:
cougars, there you go. Nice
Christina Lewellen:
playing friendly in the city of
Christina Lewellen:
Richmond, Virginia?
Peter Frank:
You This has been talking technology with Atlas,
Peter Frank:
produced by the Association of technology leaders in
Peter Frank:
independent schools. For more information about Atlas and
Peter Frank:
Atlas membership, please visit theatlas.org if you enjoyed this
Peter Frank:
discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and share this
Peter Frank:
podcast with your colleagues in the independent school
Peter Frank:
community. Thank you for listening. You.
