Mission-Driven Insights for Modular School Technology Leadership, with Barbara Cohen, TLIS
Presented by:
Barbara Cohen, Chief Information and Innovation Officer at Brandeis Marin, joins the podcast to discuss independent school technology department staffing and leadership. Cohen shares strategies for modular job design, aligning technology initiatives directly with school mission, and facilitating constructive parent dialogues regarding student device usage and social health.
Brandeis Marin — An independent K–8 Jewish day school in San Rafael, California, where Barbara Cohen serves as Chief Information and Innovation Officer.
The Anxious Generation — Book by Jonathan Haidt utilized by Brandeis Marin for community-wide reading and dialogue on youth technology use and supervision.
The Six Types of Working Genius — Team assessment framework by Patrick Lencioni referenced for identifying individual natural talents and balancing organizational team dynamics.
DISC Profile — Workplace behavior assessment tool used by technology leaders to analyze team communication preferences and working styles.
Prizmah: Center for Jewish Day Schools — Network supporting Jewish day schools through peer cohorts, leadership development, and educational technology collaboration.
Transcript
Peter Frank:
Welcome to Talk Technology with Atlas, the show
Peter Frank:
that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
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technology leaders, all through a unique independent school
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lens. We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
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special guests from the independent school community,
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and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Peter Frank:
Welcome, everyone, to Talk Technology with Atlas. I am
Peter Frank:
Peter Frank, the Senior Director of Operations and Certification
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at the Association of Technology Leaders in Independent Schools,
Hiram Cuevas:
and I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of
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Information Systems and Academic Technology at St. Christopher
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School in Richmond, Virginia,
Hiram Cuevas:
Kevin Warenda, TLIS: and I'm Kevin Warenda, director of
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information technology services at the Hotchkiss School in
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Lakeville, Connecticut.
Peter Frank:
All right. Well, we got another new combination
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today for Talking Technology with ATLIS. A new combination of
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hosts. How are you guys doing?
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Kevin Warenda, TLIS: Doing well.
Hiram Cuevas:
I'm in Boston right now, not in Richmond.
Peter Frank:
Oh, that's right. What are you doing in Boston,
Peter Frank:
Hiram?
Hiram Cuevas:
I'm actually attending the Blackbaud Users
Hiram Cuevas:
Conference. It's the first time it's been back in a number of
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years, and we've got a huge attendance here over 500
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educators from around the country.
Peter Frank:
Nice. Coincidentally, I was just told
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that my kids' school supply list hit, and so my 11-year-old
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daughter, she's of course jazzed because she's still at that age
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where kids get jazzed about things like the back to school
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supply list and going shopping,
Hiram Cuevas:
the trapper keeper,
Peter Frank:
right? I'm curious. Do you both feel like, yep,
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we've started next year already? Like the next year is here
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already? Do you feel that way, mid July?
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Kevin Warenda, TLIS: I definitely feel like I'm in it.
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We have a new head of school and a new CFO that just started, so
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like the onboarding process is off and running. My wife just
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reminded me we're already halfway through July, so I
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haven't quite gotten the school supply list yet, but I know it's
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coming.
Hiram Cuevas:
Yeah, we're already assembling the luggage
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and whatnot that needs to go back to college in the
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downstairs living room so that can get ready to bring our
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daughter back for her junior year at Virginia Tech, but it
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feels like when Fourth of July hits, summer's pretty much over.
Peter Frank:
Oh wow! Well, listen. Speaking of new
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configurations of hosts and fresh voices and people on the
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Talking Technology with Atlas podcast, we do have another
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guest host as we've been introducing here over the
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summer, it is a pleasure for me to introduce to you all a
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familiar face and familiar voice to the Atlas podcast. We have
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tell us for us today, Denise Musselwhite. Hi, Denise.
Denise Musselwhite:
Hi, everybody. I'm so excited to be
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here. I've been practicing my radio voice. I'm the founder of
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Tech and Thrive, the moderator and facilitator of the Women in
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Tech Meetup Group for Atlas, and a former Atlas board chair and
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former director of technology CIO of independent schools for
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more than 25 years.
Peter Frank:
It's a pleasure for us to have you here. With that,
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let me hand over the reins to you, Denise.
Denise Musselwhite:
Yeah, I'm so thrilled to host us here, and I
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want to make sure that I'm not left out of the school supply
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conversation. I love school supplies, even though I'm not in
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middle school anymore. So that it's not just for middle
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schoolers because I just went to Staples this week and picked up
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some new school supplies, office supplies for myself, and it was
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really fun. In all seriousness, I am thrilled to host our
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special guest, Barbara Cohen. She is a veteran in our industry
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and someone who I deeply admire, and I cannot wait to learn more
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about her journey and to hear what she can share with the
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audience. We have some ideas about what that might be, but
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first, let's hear from Barbara so that she can introduce
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herself.
Denise Musselwhite:
Barbara Cohen, TLIS: Hi, everybody. I'm Barbara Cohen,
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also a deep lover of office and school supplies. Staples is
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terrific. I kind of miss having my kids are a little older, so I
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don't get to take them on that annual summer trip for color
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coordinated folders and things. So anyway, I'm Barbara. I am
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currently the chief information and innovation officer at
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Brandeis Marin in San Rafael, California, which is just north
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of the Golden Gate Bridge in Marin County, I'm just starting
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my 11th year here, but I have been in the independent school
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technology world for just around 30 years. At this point, this is
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my fourth independent school. I've been at small schools, big
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schools, an Episcopal school, two Jewish day schools, and a
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progressive school. So I've kind of seen a lot of things come and
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go over the years, and I am a early charter member of the
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Atlas community, having gone to the first conference and become
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a member the first year. I participated during COVID in the
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ALI cohort during that year, and was in the second cohort of TLIS
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awardees and. And have multiple networks that I love and depend
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on a lot, and hopefully we can talk about that later. But
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that's a little bit about me.
Denise Musselwhite:
Thanks, Barbara. Again, totally humbled
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to be here hosting you. There's a lot of experience in this
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space right now. But before we get to asking you some questions
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about your career, I wanted to make sure that we gave a nod to
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our missing co-host. We have Kevin here, who is a fantastic
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co-host as well, but he's filling in for Bill, who
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couldn't be here. And Bill wanted to make sure that he
Denise Musselwhite:
prepped me for this experience, and he wanted me to make sure
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that Kevin, that I knew that you were an Eagles fan.
Denise Musselwhite:
Kevin Warenda, TLIS: I didn't say I wasn't a fan. I just said
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I wasn't a fan of hearing it in every single podcast episode.
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So he wanted me to mention that you are a
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huge Eagles fan while we're on this episode because he just
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needed that to happen.
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Kevin Warenda, TLIS: All right, go Birds, go birds!
Hiram Cuevas:
Oh, look at that! Look at that! Now, of note,
Hiram Cuevas:
because I'm at this conference, and Bill's school is a Veracross
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school, the number of people that have come up to me and
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said, "Where is Bill? You guys are not together.
Denise Musselwhite:
Well, speaking of being together, we,
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the four of us, have been alongside Atlas for its entire
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existence, and we've been alongside each other for almost
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about the same amount of time. We've been on this journey
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alongside one another for more than two decades, which is so
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cool about this space. I came thinking about a topic that I
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think Barbara, you could help us with in my work as a
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professional certified coach because that's what I'm doing
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full time now. One of the most persistent topics that come up
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is this new multi generational workplace, and my understanding
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is you happen to be on the hiring team at your school and
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have quite a bit of experience in hiring new people to
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independent schools. So I wonder what your thoughts are about
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what someone would need to possess in order to join an
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independent school to lead technology. Who are coming up
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behind those of us that are going to be moving out of the
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space.
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Barbara Cohen, TLIS: It's a great question, Denise. I am the
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hiring manager here at Brandeis Marin, which means I help
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formulate the job descriptions. I post jobs in a variety of
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places and then do that first round of Zoom screening
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interviews before presenting them to our hiring committees
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and then deciding who we want to bring to campus. I have a couple
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thoughts on this. One is thinking back a couple of
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positions ago, where I was going into a job that was less ed tech
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and more IT, and I was feeling very insecure about the parts I
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didn't know how to do going into that job. And a colleague of
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mine from another school said to me, "Listen, Barbara, you are a
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basically smart person, and what you don't know, you're gonna
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figure it out. So just don't be held back. I think there's some
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gender stuff that plays out with that. I've read where women tend
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to look at a job description, and if there are things they
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don't know how to do, they tend not to apply or not feel
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comfortable. And this is very much with a broad paintbrush. So
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I would just say, if you look at a job description with 50 bullet
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points, like so many of our job descriptions have, focus on the
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overall vibe of the job and can you do most of it? So don't cut
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yourself off from opportunity. Would be one thing. The other
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thing I would say is that fit is everything. So even if you have
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years of experience in the classroom or with IT, you're
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still wanting to look for an organization that you connect
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with. It's not just the job you're connecting with. You're
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connecting with an entire organization, so fit is
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everything. Look to who are the leaders. Look and see what tech
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is already in place. Find out a little bit about who you'd be
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replacing, and get curious. Don't go into interviews and a
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job search as a job beggar. Go into it as a curious job seeker
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who's looking for that right fit. That's my first thought,
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and there is a generational shift as well. So I think
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organizations, schools, tech departments have to be thinking
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a little bit differently when they make a hire about is this a
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we're going to find our forever person because I don't think
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we're hiring forever people anymore. I think we're hiring
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people for the school year, and we're going to see, and then a
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three-year commitment, perhaps, and then the conversation comes
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up again, especially in the IT and help desk positions I've
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hired and let go and had to rehire. A lot of people in those
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roles over the years, because so much about fit and chemistry and
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understanding the school environment. Another thing I
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often wonder about is when we were looking for a makerspace
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coordinator a couple of different times over my time
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here. Is it better to mostly know how to be a teacher, and
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you can learn the makerspace stuff later. Or is it mostly
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important to come with the technical and makerspace
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background, and you'll learn the school stuff later? I'm not
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convinced which formula works. Again, it's chemistry, but I
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think it's a lot harder to teach a non-school person how to be a
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part of a school culture than it is to teach a school person the
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skills they need to do the technical work. Again, big
caveat:
everybody's different. Every position is different.
caveat:
Every school community is different.
Hiram Cuevas:
So, Barbara, I found it interesting that you
Hiram Cuevas:
were talking about people perhaps shying away from certain
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positions, and I think what tech leaders in general tend to
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forget is we're like ER doctors. We can do a lot of different
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things. It may not be our specialty, but we can do a lot
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of things well, and we can also learn a lot along the way.
Hiram Cuevas:
Which, to your other point about the makerspace question versus
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the teacher, I think it's fair to say, and I'd be curious to
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see how you opine on this. When you interview somebody, you
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could tell almost immediately that they are a teacher at
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heart, even if they're coming from a non-teaching role. You
Hiram Cuevas:
can tell right away a good teacher, a solid teacher. They
Hiram Cuevas:
just command a presence. They understand the content. They can
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pivot really well, and I think you're spot on in wonder, you
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know, which is which. But one of the things that's a blessing is
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finding the right person, and all of a sudden you realize,
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wow, they just have it; they have it all.
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Kevin Warenda, TLIS: I think what's so interesting about your
Hiram Cuevas:
story, Barbara, now that you're the hiring manager, that just
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seems to highlight for me just what this job of technology
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leader, especially in independent schools, has become
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the number of hats that we are asked to wear. I know all of us
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on this call we have long enough careers that we've seen this
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just grow and grow and grow. What I'm curious about here is
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what you're seeing or how you feel about has this job become
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almost undoable? Like, can you find candidates that are up to
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the challenge because so much has been added on. This was a
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lot easier to do in the early 2000s. We added these things on,
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and looking back over two decades or three decades, it's
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almost easy to see how we grew into it. How are you approaching
Hiram Cuevas:
people today, knowing that that is the job? I mean, you're even
Hiram Cuevas:
being asked to be a hiring manager. You only see that in
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independent schools, based on my experience, has this job become
Hiram Cuevas:
too much, too many hats, and how do we find people to fill those
Hiram Cuevas:
roles? Well, I'm going to split them into three or four people.
Hiram Cuevas:
Barbara Cohen, TLIS: It's a great question, Kevin. And my
Hiram Cuevas:
niche, my favorite kind of school, is a small school where
Hiram Cuevas:
you do wear many hats. So that's partly by choice. I have worked
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at schools where there's been a medium to large size department
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of tech staff, and I came back to a small school partly because
Hiram Cuevas:
of my love of having my hands in a lot of pies. But I do think
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there is a lot of slippage into too many hats. I know there was
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a time there where a lot of technology directors, for
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example, became in charge of security and school safety, or
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anything that plugs in, like copiers and office equipment or
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phones, suddenly they were part of our purview where they used
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to be more of the front office. As things all started to have a
Hiram Cuevas:
web portal, they all became ours. So I think constantly
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going back to those job descriptions and making sure
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that it's really delineated. Oh, another area that's really grown
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is who is in charge of the AV and, for example, recording all
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of the events for the school. Is that the tech department or is
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that marketing? So I think one of the things I like to think
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about is how can we make all of our jobs. I'm going to use the
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word modular so that there are distinct buckets that, when the
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person changes the job or the parts of the job are still
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tenable. So there's like the IT piece running the network and
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the wires and the server and all if there is one and all of that
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stuff. There's the database and registrar and probably
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integration piece. That's probably another bucket. There's
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the whole ed tech piece, of course. That's a bucket, and
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then some of these other pieces I've mentioned, and then of
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course the big vision piece. But I think a lot of times
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independent schools design job descriptions based to the person
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who's currently sitting in the position, and that's partly why
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I'm the hiring manager. Is because with my years of
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experience, I happen to have a skill and passion for playing
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chess with who's in what role and who has potential, or who we
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could grow, or who we could switch, or this person would
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fit, even though their resume is not typical, or this person.
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Doesn't fit. I just love the chess game, so they gave it to
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me because someone needed to do it, and there was a not it hot
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potato piece. But it's a part of my job that could easily be
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handed over to the CFO, or we could outsource to an HR
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consultant. So I think all the parts of our jobs we should be
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thinking about as modules that could be mixed and matched. It's
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also helpful if you want to think about: Do I want to work
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remotely or do I want to work part time? What parts could you
Hiram Cuevas:
spin off? How much of it could you spin off? How big does my
Hiram Cuevas:
department need to be?
Denise Musselwhite:
Such a terrific insight! I love where
Denise Musselwhite:
this conversation has led to us. So my observation here, based on
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what you just said is that for directors, long-time employed
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individuals in schools, you can adapt in a smaller school
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environment into different roles based on your specific strengths
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and talents that you develop over time. Because we understand
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that at most schools, when you become the head of tech, you're
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not going to get promoted into the second head of tech. There's
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not like another place to go. You have to expand based on what
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the school needs. And I hear you saying that the school
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recognized that you had a true talent and ability to hire, so
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they provided you the opportunity to add that strength
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to your toolkit, and you're describing it as a modular way,
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which totally makes me think about the Atlas 360 and how it
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is modular, and how it divides up technology leadership into
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different areas of responsibility. I want to take
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us back to something that you said earlier. You said the term
Denise Musselwhite:
"school person" as though it's some kind of persona or avatar,
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and Hiram was doing a little bit of like what a school person is.
Denise Musselwhite:
So my question here is: You've worked in a variety of sizes of
Denise Musselwhite:
school. Is the school person different depending on the size
Denise Musselwhite:
of the school,
Hiram Cuevas:
that's a really interesting question. I do think
Hiram Cuevas:
smaller schools tend to have to have folks that do more things,
Hiram Cuevas:
mainly because they don't have the same level of resources as
Hiram Cuevas:
some of the larger school. I mean, one of the questions I
Hiram Cuevas:
have for you, Barbara, you know, it's sort of tangentially is, as
Hiram Cuevas:
the HR director, did they backfill some of your other
Hiram Cuevas:
responsibilities or modules as you coined them, so that you
Hiram Cuevas:
could do that and also keep the majority of your other modules
Hiram Cuevas:
in the IT area? You're a perfect example of it right here.
Hiram Cuevas:
Barbara Cohen, TLIS: Yeah, and I've been really strategic about
Hiram Cuevas:
how to get what I needed so that I could expand into some of
Hiram Cuevas:
these more administrative roles, and I'm by the way not the HR
Hiram Cuevas:
person. I have nothing to do with grievances or benefits or
Hiram Cuevas:
payroll or any of that. It's really just when we have an
Hiram Cuevas:
opening, I help find talent and bring them in, which is such a
Hiram Cuevas:
privileged thing to be able to be the first relationship
Hiram Cuevas:
builder with any of our incoming teachers, I love that. Yes, so
Hiram Cuevas:
it's a complicated answer because I set up a way to
Hiram Cuevas:
backfill while other things were happening, and all of this comes
Hiram Cuevas:
back to the mission of your school, which I think I'd love
Hiram Cuevas:
to get to as well. I think we're headed there, but a few years
Hiram Cuevas:
ago we needed to make some big budget cuts, and it was post
Hiram Cuevas:
pandemic. Our population had kind of ballooned and then right
Hiram Cuevas:
sized back down to small again. And we were going to need to do
Hiram Cuevas:
some stuff around staffing. And we made the difficult decision
Hiram Cuevas:
of where are we going to cut? Are we going to have to cut some
Hiram Cuevas:
positions? And as a school at Brandeis, we made this very
Hiram Cuevas:
intentional decision not to cut any teaching positions, maybe
Hiram Cuevas:
one part-time TA position, but we did not cut anything that had
Hiram Cuevas:
to do with program. Rather, we shrunk and right-sized our
Hiram Cuevas:
administrative team. So, where we had a middle school dean, a
Hiram Cuevas:
lower school dean, and a dean of Jewish studies and Hebrew as a
Hiram Cuevas:
Jewish day school, we combined all of those into a single
Hiram Cuevas:
position. Our head of school took over advancement and
Hiram Cuevas:
development. Our admissions person took on more
Hiram Cuevas:
communications pieces, and I was still doing what I do. But the
Hiram Cuevas:
way that we were able to shrink some of that programmatic
Hiram Cuevas:
leadership was that we hired for my first time in my career the
Hiram Cuevas:
now assistant head of school who did those three jobs together
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and I now share a full time administrative assistant a
Hiram Cuevas:
program assistant so I have I wouldn't call her a secretary
Hiram Cuevas:
she does all the purchasing and she's right now in the library,
Hiram Cuevas:
right there setting up iPads, and she does all the substitute
Hiram Cuevas:
teacher stuff. But so I share her with our assistant head of
Hiram Cuevas:
school, so I got a lot of that administrivia stuff covered. The
Hiram Cuevas:
other thing is this all was happening simultaneously to
Hiram Cuevas:
moving to BlackBod and having a more. Integrated and complex
Hiram Cuevas:
database system that had been run by an operations person, but
Hiram Cuevas:
I convinced the school to hire a three-quarter time database
Hiram Cuevas:
person who runs all things Blackbaud for us. Be very across
Hiram Cuevas:
at other schools and other systems, and he also does all of
Hiram Cuevas:
our integrations and a lot of the IT and help desk thing, so I
Hiram Cuevas:
have a staff of put them together, and it's like a person
Hiram Cuevas:
and a quarter. So I kind of staffed up, even though we
Hiram Cuevas:
shrank a little bit. So that was helpful, and I use an outsourced
Hiram Cuevas:
IT outfit for when we have network related issues or are
Hiram Cuevas:
doing a big installation or network related things.
Hiram Cuevas:
Kevin Warenda, TLIS: What's striking to me is that talking
Hiram Cuevas:
back to what Denise has said about like who's a school
Hiram Cuevas:
person, it sounds like your whole school gets it that you
Hiram Cuevas:
made the courageous decision to shrink administrative bloat
Hiram Cuevas:
rather than you know people on the ground working with
Hiram Cuevas:
students, being a problem solver, not a problem creator. I
Hiram Cuevas:
think is something that you put in around show notes and like
Hiram Cuevas:
everything you're talking about to me, that's what that is.
Hiram Cuevas:
Administrative person that helps you programmatically in the
Hiram Cuevas:
library, setting up iPads. That's a school person, right?
Hiram Cuevas:
Because there's a job to be done. It doesn't matter whether
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they're a tech person or an administrative assistant or
Hiram Cuevas:
executive assistant. Like everyone's pitching in, and in a
Hiram Cuevas:
small school, kind of as Hiram said, it's maybe not necessarily
Hiram Cuevas:
about the size. It's about the resources you have, and that
Hiram Cuevas:
sometimes that is correlated. The smaller schools have fewer
Hiram Cuevas:
resources, but sometimes that's not the case. Comes down to how
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much money do you have? What kind of endowment do you have?
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What kind of people do you have? I'd say what you've just
Hiram Cuevas:
described is the perfect answer to Denise's question of what
Hiram Cuevas:
makes a school person, and that's been my experience too.
Hiram Cuevas:
School people are people that want to be problem solvers, not
Hiram Cuevas:
problem creators, and just roll up their sleeves and get things
Hiram Cuevas:
done, but also part of that, I think, I know you want to get to
Hiram Cuevas:
like the mission and culture of your school. I think this is a
Hiram Cuevas:
good opportunity for that too, because we all do that in line
Hiram Cuevas:
with or try to align with what is our school mission and
Hiram Cuevas:
values. So maybe you could talk a little bit about you know your
Hiram Cuevas:
current school. What are the mission and values, and so what
Hiram Cuevas:
are all those school people aligning to to realize that
Hiram Cuevas:
vision?
Hiram Cuevas:
Barbara Cohen, TLIS: If I were to be redoing my resume today
Hiram Cuevas:
and had to write my educational philosophy, I already know what
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the opening tagline would be, and it's been that for close to
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the 30 years I've been doing this. And it would be, "Know who
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you and your school are, and the technology will follow, and
Hiram Cuevas:
that's very, very deeply embedded in my philosophy. And
Hiram Cuevas:
it came from a specific place. Well, it came from a couple
Hiram Cuevas:
places. First of all, I've done my entire career backwards. I
Hiram Cuevas:
started as a consultant to schools with a business partner.
Hiram Cuevas:
We would get hired by school districts and individual schools
Hiram Cuevas:
to show them how to use technology and set up computer
Hiram Cuevas:
labs and all of that, and I spoke at a lot of conferences,
Hiram Cuevas:
and then I realized I wanted more stability and income, and
Hiram Cuevas:
just to go deep with a set of people rather than a broad come
Hiram Cuevas:
in and out of their lives situation. So I come to this
Hiram Cuevas:
work with a consultant's mindset, which is I think partly
Hiram Cuevas:
how I problem solve, but when I worked for Marine Country Day
Hiram Cuevas:
School two jobs ago, we were tasked. My tech department was
Hiram Cuevas:
tasked with a wonderful opportunity. I don't know if
Hiram Cuevas:
this is even an opportunity schools would get anymore. Our
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head of school, who was new at the time, said to us, "I want
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the three of you to go find schools where the best
Hiram Cuevas:
technology in the country is happening, and I will pay for
Hiram Cuevas:
you to take a trip to go observe those schools, and you come back
Hiram Cuevas:
and tell us what you found. I mean, who gets an opportunity
Hiram Cuevas:
like that? It was dreamy. We did a 10 day trip to Kevin, your
Hiram Cuevas:
neck of the woods. We started in New York City, and we went to
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Connecticut and Rhode Island, and ended up in Boston, where
Hiram Cuevas:
you are, Hiram, and we visited a variety of schools, and what we
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found was it really depended on the mission of the school what
Hiram Cuevas:
technology looked like. So, for example, we went to a very small
Hiram Cuevas:
k8 school in New Haven, Connecticut, that was physically
Hiram Cuevas:
located right along the river in New Haven, and I'm gonna really
Hiram Cuevas:
date myself here, but the technology they had adopted was
Hiram Cuevas:
they were all using Palm Pilots with the students with probes to
Hiram Cuevas:
go measure salinity and different things about the water
Hiram Cuevas:
right there. So they spent their technology budget on this device
Hiram Cuevas:
that grounded them in the fact that they were focused on the
Hiram Cuevas:
environment and the river. We visited in Connecticut, in
Hiram Cuevas:
Stamford, Connecticut, a very small Montessori school, very
Hiram Cuevas:
cool school. And I didn't at the time know a lot about
Hiram Cuevas:
Montessori. Their technology was largely spent on video because
Hiram Cuevas:
they spent an enormous amount of time filming individual students
Hiram Cuevas:
for weeks on end, so that they could edit it all down and
Hiram Cuevas:
present to the parent. We want to show you what kind of a
Hiram Cuevas:
learner your student is, which I guess is a very Montessori
Hiram Cuevas:
thing. So, video was the right technology for them. I worked at
Hiram Cuevas:
a school before Marine Country Day School, Phillips Brook
Hiram Cuevas:
School in. In Menlo Park, California, lovely school, and
Hiram Cuevas:
they had a very grounded in Reggio Emilia philosophy
Hiram Cuevas:
preschool, and their number one thing is I am kind. And Reggio,
Hiram Cuevas:
as you may know, a big part of Reggio is documenting students'
Hiram Cuevas:
work and learning and the process of learning, and then
Hiram Cuevas:
communicating about that. So they had a whole rotating system
Hiram Cuevas:
with their staff, where one person in the preschool was
Hiram Cuevas:
always cycled out to be photographing students' work,
Hiram Cuevas:
interviewing them, writing down documentation, creating
Hiram Cuevas:
beautiful wall displays, and really weekly emailing parents
Hiram Cuevas:
the documentation of their students' learning and what it
Hiram Cuevas:
meant, so that technology and the money it cost for that
Hiram Cuevas:
staffing model fit them. So those are all early experiences
Hiram Cuevas:
I had about technology can look really different from school to
Hiram Cuevas:
school, but each of those schools knew who they were, and
Hiram Cuevas:
they spent their technology dollars accordingly.
Hiram Cuevas:
Couple examples from my own school experience is that at
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Marine Country Day School, which is a very progressive school, it
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has I don't know how many students it has now, but it had
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over 100 faculty, large K through eight school, very
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prominent in the Bay Area, and the spring that iPads were first
Hiram Cuevas:
released, brand new to the world, our head of middle school
Hiram Cuevas:
said, "Okay, before summer, I want you to buy an iPad for
Hiram Cuevas:
every single member of our faculty, so we can send them off
Hiram Cuevas:
for the summer with an iPad. Go, and they were impossible to
Hiram Cuevas:
source, so we ran around to all the Apple stores, buying up all
Hiram Cuevas:
the iPads, sent them home with them for the summer, and then
Hiram Cuevas:
came back in August and did this training that was like the
Hiram Cuevas:
amazing race, but it was with iPads, where teachers in teams
Hiram Cuevas:
had to go around to different parts of the school and try a
Hiram Cuevas:
different app, or take a camera and photo and upload it, or
Hiram Cuevas:
record their voice, or do all these things, because that's the
Hiram Cuevas:
kind of school it was. They wanted to be the first, and they
Hiram Cuevas:
wanted to go deep, and they wanted it to be hands on. So
Hiram Cuevas:
that fit there. Here at Brandeis Jewish Day School, very
Hiram Cuevas:
intentional. We use ancient Jewish values to inform modern
Hiram Cuevas:
ethical problems. We're very much a school that grapples with
Hiram Cuevas:
difficult topics. When we built our makerspace a few years ago,
Hiram Cuevas:
we didn't bring in an architect and do latest and greatest, and
Hiram Cuevas:
hire big consultants. We took an existing classroom and iterated.
Hiram Cuevas:
We built our own tables and tore some things out and put some
Hiram Cuevas:
things in. It was very homespun. And as things have evolved,
Hiram Cuevas:
we've added because we wanted to be intentional and thoughtful.
Hiram Cuevas:
And our former head of school used to always say, "With making
Hiram Cuevas:
3d printer, for example, just because you can print something
Hiram Cuevas:
up, should you? What's the cost? So grappling with the technology
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as embedded into what we do. One more example from Brandeis is we
Hiram Cuevas:
have a Jewish holiday called Purim. It's a spring holiday
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that happens every year in the Jewish culture. It's a little
Hiram Cuevas:
bit Halloween, a little bit crazy carnival, a lot of
Hiram Cuevas:
storytelling and history meaning making. But most Purim
Hiram Cuevas:
celebrations at Jewish organizations involve a
Hiram Cuevas:
carnival, and for years our school hired booths. We'd bring
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in those like pre-made booths, and you know, pop a balloon or
Hiram Cuevas:
fish. When our makerspace opened, we thought this was the
Hiram Cuevas:
perfect time to hack our carnival by making it a
Hiram Cuevas:
cardboard arcade where everybody both created a booth and
Hiram Cuevas:
participated in each other's booths, and it became a
Hiram Cuevas:
school-wide celebration. So that's an example of where our
Hiram Cuevas:
technology thinking aligned with our mission. There's a lot of
Hiram Cuevas:
examples, but know who your school is, and the technology
Hiram Cuevas:
will follow. I just want to add something that I think goes back
Hiram Cuevas:
to the hiring piece, Denise, which is when you're looking for
Hiram Cuevas:
your position, know who you are, and this is the whole "Are you a
Hiram Cuevas:
school person? thing Hiram was talking about. Know who you are,
Hiram Cuevas:
and the right technology position will appear. So I've
Hiram Cuevas:
tried high school. I don't like working at high schools. I know
Hiram Cuevas:
people love it and love the higher level thinking you can do
Hiram Cuevas:
with kids and the teachers in a high school setting. I tried it
Hiram Cuevas:
for two years. Not my thing. I also have been in jobs that were
Hiram Cuevas:
more IT focused. I liked it, but I like the projects and the
Hiram Cuevas:
hands-on stuff. I've tried big. I like small, and my two best
Hiram Cuevas:
fits have been small religious schools at the very beginning
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and very end, maybe of my career, which was a small
Hiram Cuevas:
Episcopal school and a small Jewish day school. So the
Hiram Cuevas:
religion didn't matter, but the values focus and the identity
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and community feel of the two schools fit for me. So know who
Hiram Cuevas:
you are, and the technology role will follow. That's what I.
Hiram Cuevas:
Think I mean when I say a school person is a school person Hiram
Hiram Cuevas:
at your school is going to look very different than a school
Hiram Cuevas:
person at my school, but that's why it's so much fun to be in
Hiram Cuevas:
the hiring piece because I can do the matchmaking piece.
Hiram Cuevas:
Yeah, and when you're at your respective
Hiram Cuevas:
schools, you know it when you see it.
Hiram Cuevas:
Barbara Cohen, TLIS: Yeah, and you know it when you don't see
Hiram Cuevas:
it.
Hiram Cuevas:
Absolutely,
Denise Musselwhite:
that might actually be even more impactful
Denise Musselwhite:
is knowing when you don't see it. So much of what you just
Denise Musselwhite:
said about knowing what your school is, who you are, is so
Denise Musselwhite:
much of the work that I'm doing every day with professionals who
Denise Musselwhite:
are really grappling with finding that intersection
Denise Musselwhite:
between who they are and where they work, because all of us are
Denise Musselwhite:
looking for that sweet spot, and it's not going to be sweet all
Denise Musselwhite:
the time, but you want it to be a lot of the time. And I also
Denise Musselwhite:
want to say that while you were talking, I wrote down what is
Denise Musselwhite:
your uniqueness in your school because you were talking about
Denise Musselwhite:
going on that school journey and how all of those schools had
Denise Musselwhite:
such a unique approach to teaching and learning, and it
Denise Musselwhite:
became what they were known for. So I wonder for people who are
Denise Musselwhite:
listening here, if you are someone who is looking to work
Denise Musselwhite:
in a school or are working in a school right now and you're
Denise Musselwhite:
struggling with finding your footing, what is your uniqueness
Denise Musselwhite:
that you're bringing to the role that you might not be sharing
Denise Musselwhite:
with the community in a way that is making it obvious who you are
Denise Musselwhite:
in the school? And like Barbara said, depending on the size of
Denise Musselwhite:
your school, it matters. I promised myself that I would
Denise Musselwhite:
delay mentioning this topic for as long as possible, but so much
Denise Musselwhite:
of what you said about the complexity in schools in your
Denise Musselwhite:
last stories is really bringing up for me the present challenge
Denise Musselwhite:
in schools that exists, and especially in your part of the
Denise Musselwhite:
country, Barbara, where parents are pushing back against some of
Denise Musselwhite:
what we've worked so hard to build for the last 2025 years,
Denise Musselwhite:
so tell me what you're thinking about this really interesting
Denise Musselwhite:
time in schools and how the community we serve is starting
Denise Musselwhite:
to be increasingly discerning about the exposure to technology
Denise Musselwhite:
for their students, especially in smaller schools.
Denise Musselwhite:
Barbara Cohen, TLIS: Yeah, and I was interested to hear about the
Denise Musselwhite:
LA Unified announcement in the late spring about how there's
Denise Musselwhite:
going to be no screen time for K through two and three through
Denise Musselwhite:
five, very limited. I'm not sure about the specifics of what's
Denise Musselwhite:
going on, but I think that's a flashpoint or a fractal to the
Denise Musselwhite:
larger environment right now. It's so interesting having come
Denise Musselwhite:
into this work when we were first building labs and bringing
Denise Musselwhite:
in internet, the whole goal was whether to use technology and
Denise Musselwhite:
how to get everyone excited about it and adopting it. And
Denise Musselwhite:
then there was a whole middle part of okay, we're using it.
Denise Musselwhite:
Are we using it well and intentionally and safely? And
Denise Musselwhite:
now it's like just because you can ought you, and what are the
Denise Musselwhite:
risks? And anxious generation has been a real part of the
Denise Musselwhite:
zeitgeist. So we chose that book to read as a all faculty read
Denise Musselwhite:
last summer. Our board of trustees read it. Then we
Denise Musselwhite:
invited parents to read it as well. We actually had one parent
Denise Musselwhite:
who bought a whole bunch of copies and gave them out to
Denise Musselwhite:
parents who didn't have it. So really, our whole community dug
Denise Musselwhite:
into that whole book's premise about we're not doing enough
Denise Musselwhite:
supervision of the ways in which kids are using technology.
Denise Musselwhite:
They're kind of in the wild west online and with phones and with
Denise Musselwhite:
apps. And then on the flip side, we are over supervising them
Denise Musselwhite:
when they're off technology and they are living in these
Denise Musselwhite:
protected little shells. So that sort of last year became the
Denise Musselwhite:
piece of this conversation and topic that you're mentioning
Denise Musselwhite:
that we spent a lot of time on. So after we did the parent
Denise Musselwhite:
community read, we had a all parent session from K through
Denise Musselwhite:
eight, who came, and what was very interesting, it was the
Denise Musselwhite:
head of school, the school counselor, and I. And by the
Denise Musselwhite:
way, I think that's something that makes a school person is
Denise Musselwhite:
someone who finds all kinds of partners throughout the school
Denise Musselwhite:
community. So the three of us led a conversation about anxious
Denise Musselwhite:
generation, and what we heard loud and clear from these
Denise Musselwhite:
parents was they wanted rules and standards and to maybe adopt
Denise Musselwhite:
wait until eight for phones and maybe cut down on the screen
Denise Musselwhite:
time or maybe give their kids more freedom to walk to the
Denise Musselwhite:
store, but they had no idea how to talk to the other parents
Denise Musselwhite:
about it. They really were afraid to talk to each other. We
Denise Musselwhite:
heard that, and it was surprising. But what they asked
Denise Musselwhite:
for is, can we reconvene in smaller grade level groups where
Denise Musselwhite:
you give us opportunities to talk about the specific
Denise Musselwhite:
technology related issues in our grade levels, and maybe a
Denise Musselwhite:
template or opportunities to practice talking to each other
Denise Musselwhite:
and building community by grade level. Again, small school. We
Denise Musselwhite:
combined some grades in a bigger school. I would probably do it
Denise Musselwhite:
by one grade at a time. The school counselor and I came away
Denise Musselwhite:
from that meeting thinking, really, they want a bunch of
Denise Musselwhite:
meetings so we can get them to learn how to talk to each other.
Denise Musselwhite:
And the head of school said, absolutely, this completely
Denise Musselwhite:
aligns with what I'm hearing parents struggle with in a more
Denise Musselwhite:
general way with this generation of parents, so that we did, and
Denise Musselwhite:
we had four individual grade level sessions. Some were
Denise Musselwhite:
readier to dig into this. Our sixth grade parents had a whole
Denise Musselwhite:
separate meeting at a cafe and did a survey and decided what
Denise Musselwhite:
everybody was already doing and came to us with a list of what
Denise Musselwhite:
they want the school to do. So they were very squared away, and
Denise Musselwhite:
like our middle elementary grades were like, we don't know,
Denise Musselwhite:
we just it's too late. The kids already have devices, and we
Denise Musselwhite:
don't know how to roll it back. And a lot of conversations about
Denise Musselwhite:
playdates, but there was so much commonality. They all wanted
Denise Musselwhite:
their kids to be happy, but they also wanted their kids to be
Denise Musselwhite:
safe, and they didn't want their kids left out. So, like the
Denise Musselwhite:
families who aren't allowing the kids to join the group chat were
Denise Musselwhite:
clear, but the school counselor had to say yes. And you're one
Denise Musselwhite:
of two kids in the grade who isn't allowing that, and there's
Denise Musselwhite:
a social cost to not doing that.
Denise Musselwhite:
So, how can you all talk to each other about what that actually
Denise Musselwhite:
means. So I think that's the approach because we're such a
Denise Musselwhite:
community-based school, and parents choose Brandeis because
Denise Musselwhite:
of not just what the kids are going to get, but what the
Denise Musselwhite:
parents are going to get in terms of community. It's
Denise Musselwhite:
incumbent upon us to provide them with structured ways to
Denise Musselwhite:
come together as a community to talk about technology. Well, I
Denise Musselwhite:
think it's interesting in the chat. Denise had talked about
Denise Musselwhite:
this idea of a trust relationship between the
Denise Musselwhite:
technology leading a broader school community. And I don't
Denise Musselwhite:
know about you, Denise or Kevin, but I know certainly at St.
Denise Musselwhite:
Christopher's. I've been asked to present to parents about the
Denise Musselwhite:
use of technology and how we tech leaders
Hiram Cuevas:
can be a resource for our families because it
Hiram Cuevas:
changes so much. And then on top of that, well, you happen to
Hiram Cuevas:
have an Apple product, you happen to have an Android
Hiram Cuevas:
product, you happen to have an Apple TV, you happen to have you
Hiram Cuevas:
pick it, pick the flavor, and then on top of that, you've got
Hiram Cuevas:
all the different variations within those different families,
Hiram Cuevas:
and they're lost, and there's this thirst for support by our
Hiram Cuevas:
families. What's the best way to support their children? I
Hiram Cuevas:
usually start off by at least reminding them that this is the
Hiram Cuevas:
first of many encounters you're going to have with at-risk
Hiram Cuevas:
behaviors in the journey of your child. It starts with the tech.
Hiram Cuevas:
This is a simple problem, you know. The lower grades, it
Hiram Cuevas:
really, really is. Now, what do you do when you have to
Hiram Cuevas:
introduce driving, staying up beyond curfew, alcohol, drugs,
Hiram Cuevas:
etc. And it really is a great opportunity to include the tech
Hiram Cuevas:
with the whole life skills and life coaching that schools can
Hiram Cuevas:
provide throughout the years of a child's tenure,
Hiram Cuevas:
Kevin Warenda, TLIS: Barbara, I think what's so important about
Hiram Cuevas:
what you're highlighting here is kind of hearkens back to what
Hiram Cuevas:
you said about the school should know what it's about, and the
Hiram Cuevas:
employees, the staff, the faculty should know what they're
Hiram Cuevas:
about. I hope that families are choosing schools based on that
Hiram Cuevas:
identity and aligning themselves, because if the
Hiram Cuevas:
school is now the place where we're all coming together as
Hiram Cuevas:
community to try to solve these challenges, or to have the place
Hiram Cuevas:
where we can lean, you know, I'm a parent, and if I'm not
Hiram Cuevas:
courageous enough to say, "Well, I'm taking that phone away, it's
Hiram Cuevas:
like I need to connect with other parents to talk about that
Hiram Cuevas:
fear or what we're trying to accomplish. Let's do it
Hiram Cuevas:
together. I just think that's such an important message that
Hiram Cuevas:
you're sharing that if a school knows what its identity is and
Hiram Cuevas:
what it's about, the people working in it know what it's
Hiram Cuevas:
about, and we treat the families as a part of that community,
Hiram Cuevas:
that's the best version of a school can be. And so it's a
Hiram Cuevas:
refreshing perspective, and I'm glad you found a place where
Hiram Cuevas:
that is true. And I hope others can take that message to their
Hiram Cuevas:
schools. And as you said, technology leaders in particular
Hiram Cuevas:
maybe are more inclined to want to seek out partners throughout
Hiram Cuevas:
the school. Maybe that's just in our DNA. You know, we're always
Hiram Cuevas:
looking for the connections. We're trying to wire things,
Hiram Cuevas:
wire people, wire solutions. I think that's where you're
Hiram Cuevas:
highlighting. IT directors can maybe uniquely solve that
Hiram Cuevas:
challenge to help bring more stakeholders together
Hiram Cuevas:
internally, but as Hiram said, then if you're also the person
Hiram Cuevas:
being asked to connect with families and embrace that, bring
Hiram Cuevas:
them into that community, tell them what the school is about,
Hiram Cuevas:
and ask for them to really become a part of that. So thank
Hiram Cuevas:
you for highlighting that important aspect of school
Hiram Cuevas:
keeping and community building.
Denise Musselwhite:
I totally echo what Hiram and Kevin said
Denise Musselwhite:
here. Your embodiment of a relation first leader is coming
Denise Musselwhite:
through in so much of what you've shared with us up to this
Denise Musselwhite:
point, and I am just eating it up because I understand from so
Denise Musselwhite:
many of the conversations that I'm privileged to have in
Denise Musselwhite:
confidence that. That relationship part is the part
Denise Musselwhite:
that really, really derails us sometimes, and everything that
Denise Musselwhite:
you said talks about that relationship building part. And
Denise Musselwhite:
one of the notes I made when you were talking about how you
Denise Musselwhite:
addressed this really complicated time, and then Hiram
Denise Musselwhite:
talked about like as leaders in technology, as school people,
Denise Musselwhite:
we're being asked to present to the community. So when I think
Denise Musselwhite:
about the persona of a school person, it also needs to be
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someone who's comfortable leaning in to conflict in a
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healthy and diplomatic way, and that untangling the complexity
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of young people is the through line for everything that we're
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doing, even if our job is technology, and that is so rich,
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and that is difficult to put into a job description.
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Barbara Cohen, TLIS: Yeah, like what I would like to put into a
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tech director's job description are two personality traits. One
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would be the ability to say I don't know, but I'm willing to
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find out, and then the other one is being comfortable being
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surrounded by people smarter than them, or another way of
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saying that is to feel comfortable hiring your
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weakness, and that's a lot about self knowledge. I mean, I was
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not self aware earlier in my career to the extent I am. So
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some of that is just time and service, but I think we've got a
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lot of old souls out there who are new to the career who could
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certainly embody that or be coached around that. But I wish
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those two bullet points could be in there because the guy who
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sits on the other side of my cubicle right here, he actually
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comes from a project management background, so he's very much
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like empty inbox end of every day. He puts dates in whenever
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we have a conversation, whenever we meet, everything I said
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becomes an action item, and I'm like out there, vision, idea
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person, and he grounds me, and I need that person on my team. And
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a lot of people hire people just like them, and then there's a
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whole missing piece. So I think that's in there too.
Denise Musselwhite:
Yeah, that's such a rich share.
Hiram Cuevas:
I'm still struck by the feel comfortable hiring
Hiram Cuevas:
their weakness. I think that's an amazing philosophy.
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If you're building a team and it's a
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school of players, we can't have everybody playing the same
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position, right? So it makes perfect sense.
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Kevin Warenda, TLIS: Absolutely.
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Barbara Cohen, TLIS: We have a new head of school starting this
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week. She's wonderful, and we're very excited. I miss my prior
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head of school terribly, but I'm really excited about our new
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one. And one of the things she's going to do with our team right
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off the bat is we're going to do that self assessment about
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locating your genius. And we did this a few years ago with a
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different configuration of the team, and we found out we had
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too many vision people and not enough detail people. I think
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things have shifted around, but you can't. I mean, we all have
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to do everything, but if you have no detail people or no
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pragmatic people or no vision people, it's going to be out of
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balance.
Denise Musselwhite:
I love this assessment that you're talking
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about because I'm a data informed coach. I use
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assessments as the first step. Are you talking about the
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Griffin Genius assessment by Pat Leezioni. Yep. Okay, I want to
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mention that so that we can put it in the show notes. It's a
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great assessment for those of you who are listening, who are
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looking for some self-awareness tools, because it does help to
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figure out where people and players should be in your
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community. Powerful. Anything coming up for you, Kevin, on
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some bullet that you would put into a job description.
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Kevin Warenda, TLIS: I think Barbara already captured the two
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that probably are most important today. Again, thinking back to
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how we all started our careers, the IT director was expected to
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be an expert in a very narrow field, and so maybe the benefit
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of all that time now is that it's perhaps commonly understood
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now that it's impossible for one person to know all that. You
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have to assemble a team, but you also have to understand that
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team. So I love that you've gone to diagnostic tools. With my
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team, we've used the DISC assessment, which is a work
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style assessment, and that's been incredibly informative for
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me as a leader to see what are we missing, what are our
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strengths, what are the approaches, and been encouraged
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to use that tool within the school. If enough people at the
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school have done it, you can go to a portal and actually put in
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like, what are you working on, and and see what is the right
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approach with that person to leverage their strengths and
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yours. So like, using these tools is necessary now because
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it's impossible for any of us to know how to do everything. It's
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just too complex, and so I wouldn't add anything to what
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Barbara already said. I think that the modern technology
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leader needs to understand that they are not going to be the
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smartest person in the room to be okay with that. To surround
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yourself with people that know a diverse area of expertise, and
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to highlight that, to celebrate that, and to connect with those
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people, whether they're within your department or within your
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school, being kind of connector in chief. I think that is the
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job. So I would not add anything to what she's saying. And I know
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Denise, as you said, like I love being a data informed leader in
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some respect too, because it makes it easier. It doesn't
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matter which one you use, probably, but find one. Find one
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that works for you and your team or your organization. Align it
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with your values. I think we did one as part of the ALI, the
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Atlas Leader. Institute. I think we did a version of that too,
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which really helped with the team dynamics.
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Barbara Cohen, TLIS: We did.
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Kevin Warenda, TLIS: This is a common thing for leadership
practice:
is to assess your team or yourself. You need to know
practice:
where you're starting and where you're coming from. So, everyone
practice:
on this podcast should take that to heart.
Denise Musselwhite:
Yeah, that is really powerful. Thank you so
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much, Barbara. Is there some question that we didn't ask you,
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that you were wishing we would ask you. The one
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Barbara Cohen, TLIS: thing I didn't give a proper shout out
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to is it's not just within your team making sure that you're
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well resourced and balanced, but I think it's so important for
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those of us in this role, and especially newcomers. This maybe
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goes back to your earlier point about advice when we pass the
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torch on to the next generation: is do not be shy to build a
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network with folks at other schools. Now, again, when I got
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here, there was no Atlas. We were not pro. We were making
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this up, and in the Bay Area, we had an amazing group that I'm
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going to shout out called BaseNet. We are a list serve
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with over 100 Bay Area tech folks, and every few years,
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we're like, "Oh, should we move this to Discord? Should we move
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this to Slack? And every time it comes back to no email works,
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and we used to have like one or two meetups a year that were
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basically meeting in San Francisco for a beer and burgers
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and just fetching about our schools, but now we have
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speakers and vendors come in, and topics, and it's a lot more
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formalized. But I could not do this job without my BaseNet
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people, some of whom I've known for decades now. One of our
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beloved people who started BaseNet passed away last year,
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and we had a whole memorial gathering at a bar for beer
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because I think he started that. And there were so many of us
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there; we hadn't seen each other in person in years, and it's
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like having this extended department or family. So that's
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the real like homespun thing. And I actually think a lot of
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the early Atlas founders came out of BaseNet. Yep, come to
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think of it, so very powerful to have that local network. We've
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been in and out of each other's schools. We know who the person
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who is an expert in Meraki is, or who knows about Veracross
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versus Blackbaud, and I don't make any decisions without
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running it by my basement people. And then, as a Jewish
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day school person, there is a network called Prisma. It's the
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umbrella organization of Jewish day schools, and we have a sub
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group of ed tech folks in that. So during the pandemic, in
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particular, we had weekly Zoom meetings where coming together
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and saying, "How are you doing it? or "How are you dealing with
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this? was hugely popular. One thing that drove me crazy in the
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early days was none of them were members of Atlas. So I think I
Denise Musselwhite:
helped make a connection between Atlas and Prisma. I know
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Christina did a presentation to their heads thing on AI a few
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months back, and it blew all their minds. And now we have a
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more of a pipeline between the two, so that's great. And then
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to watch Atlas grow and to become so pro-I mean, again, we
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were making this stuff up, and now we have position papers and
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salary surveys and certification and a leadership training
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pipeline-it's so pro. I'm so proud of us that we now have our
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Isboa and our national real organization with employees.
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It's just thrilling. I want to say one more thing, just because
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Denise, you are hosting this, and I know a word that you like
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a lot is vulnerability, and we probably both like Brett Brown a
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lot. Not every tech job is the right fit for you, and don't
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take it personally. It's just a thing, and careers are long, and
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you're gonna go through different parts of your life. I
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came from a job where I was really demoralized. I had a
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supervisor who every time anything didn't work. A
Denise Musselwhite:
projector didn't turn on, or a microphone, or whatever. He'd
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yell at me and tell me I was incompetent, and I'd go home and
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cry. And it was terrible. I actually became incompetent
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because I knew I was seen as incompetent. And then I moved to
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a job where the head of school valued the work that we do.
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And early in my tenure, and that was here at Brandeis, we had a
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day where our network went down. I think there was an electrical
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outage, and the email was down, and I was scrambling to try to
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figure out what was going on. And I got a text thread from my
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head of school who said, "I'm so sorry the network is down. I'm
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so sorry this is happening to you. It must be really hard and
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stressful. I'm here. What can I do?
Denise Musselwhite:
Wow!
Hiram Cuevas:
But that's leadership. Yeah,
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that story right there reminds me of a book
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called Multipliers by Liz Wiseman, and it talks about
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leaders who multiply versus leaders who do the opposite of
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multiplying. They detract. They demoralize. So that last story
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is a leader who multiplies, and I must say, Barbara, that you
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are a leader that is multiplying, and you've given us
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a master class on what it is to serve in an independent school
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community. I think part of my assignment here is to wrap us up
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in some fun. Silly way, and I'm so fangirling over Barbara right
Denise Musselwhite:
now that I'm having difficulty coming up with that. Hiram, help
Denise Musselwhite:
me.
Hiram Cuevas:
There is always in the zombie apocalypse. What is
Hiram Cuevas:
your melee weapon of choice? Bill's about here, so I've got
Hiram Cuevas:
to do it. In the case of you know the zombies coming across
Hiram Cuevas:
the Golden Gay Bridge.
Denise Musselwhite:
Okay, I know what my weapon is going to be.
Hiram Cuevas:
Okay, go ahead.
Denise Musselwhite:
I'm going to give them empanadas. That's my
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weapon.
Denise Musselwhite:
Kevin Warenda, TLIS: That's classic, Denise. Kill them with
Denise Musselwhite:
food or kindness. I love it
Denise Musselwhite:
because then they won't get me. So I'm going
Denise Musselwhite:
to give them empanadas. So I'm going to come up with a weapon
Denise Musselwhite:
that can make empanadas because we're abandoning reality here.
Denise Musselwhite:
So if my weapon can be an empanada,
Hiram Cuevas:
there you go, Mick Barber, you're up.
Hiram Cuevas:
Kevin Warenda, TLIS: What's your melee weapon of choice?
Hiram Cuevas:
Barbara Cohen, TLIS: Oh, what a fun question! I'm actually
Hiram Cuevas:
wearing a bracelet that I think has it, and I wore it as a
Hiram Cuevas:
costume to one of our, as I described, Purim days. We had to
Hiram Cuevas:
all be superheroes, and I created a superhero with a big
Hiram Cuevas:
hat, I could probably send you a picture, Captain Restart. So
Hiram Cuevas:
right here, my bracelet says restart. So I'm coming up with a
Hiram Cuevas:
melee weapon that is a restart button. It always works. That
Hiram Cuevas:
works. There you have it.
Denise Musselwhite:
Thank you, Barbara. This was so much fun.
Denise Musselwhite:
I'm fangirling here. Thanks for the master class. Thank you,
Denise Musselwhite:
Hiram. Thank you, Kevin, for joining me here and for bringing
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this content to our Atlas community. I am humbled and
Denise Musselwhite:
honored. This has been really a highlight. It's been a great
Denise Musselwhite:
conversation.
Peter Frank:
This has been Talk Technology with Atlas, produced
Peter Frank:
by the Association of Technology Leaders in Independent Schools.
Peter Frank:
For more information about Atlas and Atlas membership, please
Peter Frank:
visit theatlas.org. If you enjoyed this discussion, please
Peter Frank:
subscribe, leave a review, and share this podcast with your
Peter Frank:
colleagues in the independent school community. Thank you for
Peter Frank:
listening.
