Cultivating AI Literacy and Future-Ready Skills with Jenn Zanoria
Jenn Zanoria, Director of Educational Technology at Windward School, joins the podcast to discuss her journey and the importance of mentorship in educational technology leadership. She shares insights on fostering digital citizenship and AI literacy, detailing how her school thoughtfully integrates technology to prepare students for a rapidly changing future.
- Windward School: https://www.windwardschool.org/
- The AI Infused Classroom by Holly Clark: https://www.hollyclark.org/infusedclassroom
- Claude: https://claude.ai/
- Tinkercad: https://www.tinkercad.com/
- Instructables: https://www.instructables.com/
- Yondr: https://www.overyondr.com/
- The Pyramid Approach: Navigating Collaboration Across Independent School Departments, episode of TTWA with Jim Bologna: https://theatlis.org/page/episode-2
Transcript
Peter Frank:
Ed, welcome to Talking technology with Atlas,
Peter Frank:
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
Peter Frank:
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Peter Frank:
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
Peter Frank:
special guests from the Independent School community,
Peter Frank:
and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Peter Frank:
And now please welcome your host. Kristina llewellen,
Christina Lewellen:
hello everyone, and welcome back to
Christina Lewellen:
talking technology with Atlas. I am Kristina llewellen, the
Christina Lewellen:
president and CEO of the Association of technology
Christina Lewellen:
leaders in independent schools.
Bill Stites:
And I am Bill Stites, the Director of
Bill Stites:
Technology at Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New
Bill Stites:
Jersey,
Hiram Cuevas:
and I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of
Hiram Cuevas:
Information Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher
Hiram Cuevas:
school in Richmond, Virginia.
Christina Lewellen:
Hello, gentlemen. I am so glad to see
Christina Lewellen:
you today, as always for our weekly recording. Sesh, but I
Christina Lewellen:
gotta say, Bill, I'm kind of concerned about you. You came in
Christina Lewellen:
looking a little rough. You got some wounds. You can't breathe.
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, please tell our audience what happened.
Bill Stites:
Yeah. So I put this in the category of my first old
Bill Stites:
man fall. You know, as I'm aging, as I'm getting older,
Bill Stites:
you're not quite as nimble as you once were, and dog walking
Bill Stites:
takes on a whole new set of challenges. For those of you on
Bill Stites:
the pod that don't know I have two dogs. I have 140 pound
Bill Stites:
William burger named Luna, and Luna is great. She is a gentle
Bill Stites:
giant. She's six years old. For as big as she is, she is super
Bill Stites:
chill, easy, relaxed. She is the center of attention when we go
Bill Stites:
for walks, because people wonder whether it's a bear or a dog or
Bill Stites:
what it actually is. But then we've just recently adopted
Bill Stites:
probably about a 1314, months old cockapoo, 35 pounds, just
Bill Stites:
all puppy.
Christina Lewellen:
Now, when we came into this story, I just
Christina Lewellen:
want to start by prefacing you outline the sizes of your dog,
Christina Lewellen:
what you're about to describe. Hiram's first response was Luna.
Christina Lewellen:
But as it turns out,
Bill Stites:
yeah, so this was not Luna related. This was Brody
Bill Stites:
related. Brody is the cockapoo down the shore with my wife
Bill Stites:
going for a walk. We're trying to teach the dog how to do a
Bill Stites:
walk properly. My wife is handling the cockapoo on a
Bill Stites:
shorter leash. I have Luna on this long Flexi leash. My wife
Bill Stites:
is getting pulled all over the place by the smaller dog. And
Bill Stites:
I'm just like, give me the dog. This is not easy for anyone.
Bill Stites:
This is difficult to watch. Give me the smaller dog. I'm walking
Bill Stites:
the smaller dog, and he proceeds to do the same type of pulling.
Bill Stites:
I shorten up the leash, and I kind of pull it up a little bit,
Bill Stites:
just to kind of stop him from what he is doing as he's trying
Bill Stites:
to pull me all over the place. And I realized that the leash is
Bill Stites:
not connected to his collar around his neck. It is connected
Bill Stites:
to the harness that my wife put him in, and the dog proceeds to
Bill Stites:
slip out of the harness as I lift it up, at which point the
Bill Stites:
dog is a runner. We're on a busy street down the shore. It wasn't
Bill Stites:
too busy, but busy enough, the dog starts to slip out. I kind
Bill Stites:
of reached to grab the dog while I'm still holding the dog up, I
Bill Stites:
reach over and I stumble like a drunkard and fall over, hit the
Bill Stites:
street, the curb and the sidewalk proceed to bruise my
Bill Stites:
arm, my thigh. And I believe, though I will deny saying this
Bill Stites:
if my wife listens to it, because I swear to her that this
Bill Stites:
wasn't the case. I've either bruised or broken a rib or two,
Bill Stites:
so it's been a fun start to the week, as I try to move about and
Bill Stites:
not cause myself a great
Hiram Cuevas:
deal of pain. So Bill, did you press your life
Hiram Cuevas:
alert button? No.
Bill Stites:
But what was interesting and hilarious at the
Bill Stites:
same point, and this, if you remember all of those
Bill Stites:
commercials from back in the day, help I've fallen and I
Bill Stites:
can't get up. You know the Life Alert thing, my Apple Watch
Bill Stites:
started going off in an alarm saying, it looks like you've
Bill Stites:
taken a significant fall. Are you okay? And I'm like, What is
Bill Stites:
this noise? And then I looked down, and it was like, Oh, my
Bill Stites:
God, you are wearing a Life Alert. I am wearing a Life
Bill Stites:
Alert. Yep,
Hiram Cuevas:
it alerted. John, Craig, your dad is falling
Christina Lewellen:
Exactly. And they're like, What are you
Christina Lewellen:
doing? I thought for sure you were gonna say that that dog got
Christina Lewellen:
out of the harness and you got hit by a car, because this
Christina Lewellen:
conversation started with broken ribs with us. Thank goodness,
Bill Stites:
Kristina, I will say much to Hiram and Peter's
Bill Stites:
chagrin. It was blue bubble to the rescue when this went off. I
Bill Stites:
don't know whether their green bubble watches would do this for
Bill Stites:
him, but our blue bubbles would
Christina Lewellen:
no I think Hiram green bubble watch would
Christina Lewellen:
just let him die on the side of the road.
Hiram Cuevas:
Well, remember Christina now that bill is
Hiram Cuevas:
ailing. It's up to me to save you in the zombie apocalypse.
Christina Lewellen:
Well, if a zombie gets me, I have a Apple
Christina Lewellen:
Watch. So. At least my blue bubble will come to my rescue,
Christina Lewellen:
because Bill has tried it out exactly. Well, I'm really sorry
Christina Lewellen:
to hear that you got hurt last week. I was out, and I
Christina Lewellen:
appreciate that you guys were recording some pods without me.
Christina Lewellen:
I know that your hearts were broken, but I did some PTO and
Christina Lewellen:
one of the places I've never been in my life, just because
Christina Lewellen:
I'm a New York girl, and I haven't been out there. I've
Christina Lewellen:
never been to Yellowstone. And so I went out to Yellowstone. I
Christina Lewellen:
stayed in Big Sky, Montana. It was so gorgeous. And you know,
Christina Lewellen:
right, as the hiking season and the summer season is kind of
Christina Lewellen:
getting rolling, and I really enjoyed just checking out
Christina Lewellen:
trails. I'm not a huge hiker, so I stayed where I knew I was
Christina Lewellen:
safe, and I was on my own. So I also didn't want to go too far
Christina Lewellen:
afield. But I will say I thought of you guys, because while I was
Christina Lewellen:
there, it was recommended that I buy a big old canister of bear
Christina Lewellen:
spray, which I was not allowed to bring back with me, because
Christina Lewellen:
you can't carry that stuff on a plane. From now on, when you ask
Christina Lewellen:
me about my weapon for zombies, I think I'm going to go with
Christina Lewellen:
bear spray. I don't know if it'll work or not, but it was I
Christina Lewellen:
felt pretty cool carrying it around in a little pouch if
Christina Lewellen:
anybody got near me. It's like a little mini fire extinguisher
Christina Lewellen:
that shoots mace about 30 feet. So that's a fun weapon, right?
Christina Lewellen:
Oh, you guys, God, I tried. Where? We're done. I tried to
Christina Lewellen:
have a zombie conversation with you. Fail.
Bill Stites:
I will tell you I'm very jealous because going to
Bill Stites:
the National Parks is something that I very much want to do, so
Bill Stites:
I was very jealous of your trip. Yeah,
Christina Lewellen:
it was a great time. I highly recommend
Christina Lewellen:
and if you go, I have some great recommendations for you. Love
Christina Lewellen:
those national parks, all right, so let's get down to business.
Christina Lewellen:
Because we are already far afield today. We're really
Christina Lewellen:
excited. We have, thank goodness, a little bit of a
Christina Lewellen:
balance of all the testosterone in the room at the moment I'm
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bringing to the pod jenoria. Jen is the Director of Educational
Christina Lewellen:
Technology and Associate Director of the Center for
Christina Lewellen:
Teaching and Learning at Windward school out in Los
Christina Lewellen:
Angeles. Jen, welcome to the pod. How are you today?
Jenn Zanoria:
I am doing really well. Thank you. I'm excited to
Jenn Zanoria:
be here. Well,
Christina Lewellen:
I mean, you'll be excited for a while,
Christina Lewellen:
until these guys get going, but I'll try my best to protect you.
Christina Lewellen:
I don't have bear spray anymore, but maybe I have virtual bear
Christina Lewellen:
spray because I can always mute them if they get a little crazy.
Christina Lewellen:
But thank you for being brave and coming on the pod with us. I
Christina Lewellen:
know that you have been in the space for about two decades. So
Christina Lewellen:
the last 10 years, you've been in these leadership roles at
Christina Lewellen:
Windward school. And I would love to talk a little bit about
Christina Lewellen:
how you got there, like, did you start as a teacher? Tell me a
Christina Lewellen:
little bit about your journey.
Jenn Zanoria:
Yeah, not to go too far back, but I always
Jenn Zanoria:
wanted to be a teacher. I always had that calling like I was the
Jenn Zanoria:
kid that was set up my little stuffies and then play school
Jenn Zanoria:
and have my mom make copies of all the worksheets I would take
Jenn Zanoria:
home. So always been a big nerd like that, but when I was trying
Jenn Zanoria:
to figure out what I wanted to do, I did start studying to
Jenn Zanoria:
become a teacher. I went down that road and found that I had a
Jenn Zanoria:
skill for explaining technical concepts and the ways of doing
Jenn Zanoria:
things around technology to people in a way that felt
Jenn Zanoria:
accessible to them. And so I started as an aid in a lot of
Jenn Zanoria:
classrooms, specifically in public schools, and then moved
Jenn Zanoria:
into the district offices, and was like a data processing clerk
Jenn Zanoria:
for a while. So I got my hands into that data side, and that's
Jenn Zanoria:
really where that skill set started to become apparent. And
Jenn Zanoria:
at that point, I was finishing my bachelor's in education and
Jenn Zanoria:
looking at doing a credential program, and wasn't quite sure
Jenn Zanoria:
if the classroom was for me at that point. And then I found
Jenn Zanoria:
educational technology, and so I started doing a master's in
Jenn Zanoria:
educational technology leadership, and then found
Jenn Zanoria:
myself back in the data world. I was working at a charter school
Jenn Zanoria:
as a data coordinator and also tutoring on the side. And so it
Jenn Zanoria:
was like this beautiful place where these two loves of mine
Jenn Zanoria:
connected, and then through a friend, was told about the
Jenn Zanoria:
Windward opportunity for a student technology
Jenn Zanoria:
integrationist. And the rest of my career is kind of like
Jenn Zanoria:
written for me in that way to this point, you know, and I've
Jenn Zanoria:
been so fortunate to grow and be able to really hone those skills
Jenn Zanoria:
of in the classroom, teaching and teaching students, teaching
Jenn Zanoria:
adults, and guiding what teaching and learning, what
Jenn Zanoria:
technology looks like at Windward, it's really
Christina Lewellen:
cool that you had a Really early focus
Christina Lewellen:
when you are still working on your own education, to focus on
Christina Lewellen:
technology. That's somewhat unusual. We hear a lot about,
Christina Lewellen:
you know, I was a teacher for X number of years, and then maybe
Christina Lewellen:
did a master's with some kind of tech angle, or learned on the
Christina Lewellen:
job, right? And so it's so rare to see someone kind of coming
Christina Lewellen:
through. And saying, Well, I like teaching, but I'm really
Christina Lewellen:
good at explaining technology, so maybe that combination. Do
Christina Lewellen:
you think that's more common among folks that are coming
Christina Lewellen:
through the pipeline right now? Do you think that people are
Christina Lewellen:
finding the special combination of education Plus technology
Christina Lewellen:
earlier, or you just struck it? You struck gold. You're kind of
Christina Lewellen:
an unusual situation.
Jenn Zanoria:
Yeah, honestly, I didn't even know that
Jenn Zanoria:
educational technology was, like a thing when I was younger and
Jenn Zanoria:
in college. Like, I had no idea I was exploring master's
Jenn Zanoria:
programs. So I was gonna go into curriculum design. And then
Jenn Zanoria:
there was this one little listing at Cal State Long Beach.
Jenn Zanoria:
And I was like, You know what? Let's look into that. And asked
Jenn Zanoria:
a mentor of mine about it, in terms of, like, younger people
Jenn Zanoria:
and figuring out the place where those two worlds meet. Like, I'm
Jenn Zanoria:
not sure. I kind of think that at this point, the young people
Jenn Zanoria:
that I work with, it just fades into the background. And that's
Jenn Zanoria:
kind of the goal, right? Is that technology fades into the
Jenn Zanoria:
background and becomes a tool for them to further or to
Jenn Zanoria:
progress their learning, to be able to make things happen for
Jenn Zanoria:
them. So I'm not sure. Maybe I am a unique case. Yeah, we can
Jenn Zanoria:
go with that, but I don't know, because, like, now there's like,
Jenn Zanoria:
a huge field with that, yeah, but I was also like the kid that
Jenn Zanoria:
there's always one person in the family, right? That is like, the
Jenn Zanoria:
person to call when the remotes not working, or the cell phones
Jenn Zanoria:
not working, or the printer is not working, and I'm the tech
Jenn Zanoria:
support for So
Christina Lewellen:
now tell us a little bit about when you came
Christina Lewellen:
to windward. You started in as a tech integrationist. You were
Christina Lewellen:
working with teachers. What has that decade of your life looked
Christina Lewellen:
like? It seems like you've changed roles a few times,
Jenn Zanoria:
it was amazing. So when I first started, my focus
Jenn Zanoria:
was really on building technology literacy and fluency
Jenn Zanoria:
with students. So I was collaborating, or part of a team
Jenn Zanoria:
that would collaborate with faculty and thinking about and
Jenn Zanoria:
this is like back in like 2014 2015 and we were a couple of
Jenn Zanoria:
years into one to one iPads, so really focusing and working with
Jenn Zanoria:
faculty and thinking about, where are the natural ways that
Jenn Zanoria:
you can bring technology into the learning space, so that it
Jenn Zanoria:
didn't feel like you were using technology for technology's
Jenn Zanoria:
sake, that it didn't feel like you were just trying to do
Jenn Zanoria:
something that was like new and shiny just because, but it
Jenn Zanoria:
really was going to lead to students having a deeper
Jenn Zanoria:
understanding of communication. How is it going to serve the
Jenn Zanoria:
learning goals? So really trying to bridge those two worlds. So I
Jenn Zanoria:
was in the classroom quite a bit, supporting students, doing
Jenn Zanoria:
troubleshooting, helping them think about like, what's the
Jenn Zanoria:
best method to communicate their understanding or demonstrate
Jenn Zanoria:
their knowledge, and so that was a really cool place to be, and I
Jenn Zanoria:
was in that realm for quite a few years, and still serve in
Jenn Zanoria:
that capacity today, especially as technology has evolved and
Jenn Zanoria:
changed, and my LinkedIn, I have like the tools are for today,
Jenn Zanoria:
but the skills last forever, and that was something that came out
Jenn Zanoria:
of this, right? Because the tools that you have available to
Jenn Zanoria:
you, and like Google Docs, is gonna it transcends Google Docs,
Jenn Zanoria:
right? Like, how do you do word processing? So, yeah, I was
Jenn Zanoria:
working with faculty in classrooms, with students and
Jenn Zanoria:
helping them, and that, like, then translated into teaching a
Jenn Zanoria:
making class. I lead seminars where we talk about digital
Jenn Zanoria:
citizenship and digital fluency, and initially working really
Jenn Zanoria:
closely with the middle school and have parlayed that across
Jenn Zanoria:
all six of our grade levels were seven through 12 at Windward.
Jenn Zanoria:
That's really
Christina Lewellen:
cool. And I know the guys will be wanting to
Christina Lewellen:
jump in here in a second, but given that you have some
Christina Lewellen:
flexibility in terms of how you help. Like you say, find these
Christina Lewellen:
natural ways to integrate technology. What's a good day?
Christina Lewellen:
Look like for you. Walk us through it. What do you do? Oh,
Christina Lewellen:
my God.
Jenn Zanoria:
Now thinking about like, you know, that was like so
Jenn Zanoria:
far ago, and like between then and now, like taking over
Jenn Zanoria:
different morsels of the program, of the Educational
Jenn Zanoria:
Technology program at Windward, and helping to further the
Jenn Zanoria:
development. Now it's, there's so many plates, you know, it's
Jenn Zanoria:
like the learning management system. There's the one to one
Jenn Zanoria:
device program thinking about constantly doing evaluations on
Jenn Zanoria:
like so well, is this program doing? What tools should we be
Jenn Zanoria:
adopting? How do we assess those tools? How do we assess the
Jenn Zanoria:
success of our programs and whatever it is that we might be
Jenn Zanoria:
doing? So day to day, two days are never really alike. The team
Jenn Zanoria:
that I'm on, we really focus with collaboration across the
Jenn Zanoria:
constituencies. So with teachers and staff, we're running a lot
Jenn Zanoria:
of workshops right now around AI and thinking about, how does
Jenn Zanoria:
that show up in this space, bouncing around in our day to
Jenn Zanoria:
teach classes, teach different kinds of classes, trying to
Jenn Zanoria:
research things. Find the time to read through emails, read
Jenn Zanoria:
through all the newsletters, as well as. Just like I'm in the
Jenn Zanoria:
library, our team's in the library, so also being a part of
Jenn Zanoria:
the community and how to support students like those are all like
Jenn Zanoria:
the various things throughout the day that like we find
Jenn Zanoria:
ourselves in having conversation with kids about what books
Jenn Zanoria:
they're reading, what books are we reading for pleasure, for
Jenn Zanoria:
work, the learning management system piece disappears into the
Jenn Zanoria:
background, but comes back at the beginning and the end of the
Jenn Zanoria:
year, which is where we are right now. And AI, those are
Jenn Zanoria:
really like the primary things right now.
Hiram Cuevas:
So Jen, your enthusiasm is obviously
Hiram Cuevas:
infectious. And I'm curious this past year, what was your
Hiram Cuevas:
favorite lesson to see come from an idea and then developed into
Hiram Cuevas:
something truly transformative for your students.
Jenn Zanoria:
That is such a great question. Thinking about
Jenn Zanoria:
my students, I'm going to zoom in a little bit more, rather
Jenn Zanoria:
than thinking about the student body as a whole, and think about
Jenn Zanoria:
like my own class. So I teach a making and learning class, and
Jenn Zanoria:
we're always struggling with, how do we we have 70 minute
Jenn Zanoria:
blocks like, how do we like, keep them moving, keep them
Jenn Zanoria:
engaged and on task. And it's seventh graders, and they're so
Jenn Zanoria:
excited to just be with each other, you know. And even though
Jenn Zanoria:
they all have, like, a desk and a seat, they still want to,
Jenn Zanoria:
like, sit on top of each other, relatively speaking. So thinking
Jenn Zanoria:
about the whole year teaching them these skills that they are.
Jenn Zanoria:
We want to move faster. We want to move faster. And getting to a
Jenn Zanoria:
place where the last like, seven weeks of school, we were
Jenn Zanoria:
building lanterns, actually, and so like, having them decide,
Jenn Zanoria:
like, how are they going to build these lanterns? And one
Jenn Zanoria:
thing really quick to go back, we had asked them at the end of
Jenn Zanoria:
the previous project, what do you need? Like, what kind of
Jenn Zanoria:
support did they need? And they needed time management support
Jenn Zanoria:
and scaffolding support. So we took this bigger project and
Jenn Zanoria:
totally broke it apart into benchmarking and really, like,
Jenn Zanoria:
smaller bite size assignments with the help of AI. Totally
Jenn Zanoria:
love Claude, and Claude helped me so much figuring out how to
Jenn Zanoria:
break that down. But watching them, like, put together all the
Jenn Zanoria:
skills that they had been, like, almost begrudgingly at certain
Jenn Zanoria:
points, been practicing and learning, but like, really
Jenn Zanoria:
utilizing right like, how did they design a mock up and tinker
Jenn Zanoria:
cad to give them the visual that they were going to need even
Jenn Zanoria:
before that, researching and looking at different lantern
Jenn Zanoria:
styles of DIY and Instructables and Pinterest and things like I
Jenn Zanoria:
said, Tinkercad mock ups, and then translating that into
Jenn Zanoria:
Illustrator, and all on the iPad too, right then building it out
Jenn Zanoria:
and like, what is their file going to look like? And then
Jenn Zanoria:
getting to the laser cutter and prototyping and cardboard and
Jenn Zanoria:
assembling it. And then some of them got to even wood, and how
Jenn Zanoria:
are they going to make that work? Where is light going to
Jenn Zanoria:
fit? Like, what kind of lights are they choosing? And so
Jenn Zanoria:
really, like, watching their growth over the year was just so
Jenn Zanoria:
amazing. And at the end, like, we just had our last class last
Jenn Zanoria:
week, and we have, like, a 10 Minute catch up on Friday, they
Jenn Zanoria:
actually had something tangible that they're really proud of to
Jenn Zanoria:
take home and show off. So that was really like an idea that we
Jenn Zanoria:
were trying to think my co teacher and I like what is like
Jenn Zanoria:
a final product that will span all of their skills. And we were
Jenn Zanoria:
really excited with what they were able to produce. I
Bill Stites:
love how you said that they almost begrudgingly
Bill Stites:
like with doing this, because it's just one of those things
Bill Stites:
where it's like, you know, you're teaching something,
Bill Stites:
you're instructing on something, and you see sometimes the looks
Bill Stites:
and they might not seem like they're engaged, or it's like,
Bill Stites:
lackluster just, you know, having off days, or whatever it
Bill Stites:
may be, and then seeing them actually be able to do all of
Bill Stites:
those things, I think is great, because it shows how much they
Bill Stites:
actually were able to take in, how much you were actually able
Bill Stites:
to impart upon them, and the fact that they were able to put
Bill Stites:
it all together in that way. I thought it was great how you
Bill Stites:
talked a lot about the process steps that ended up with the
Bill Stites:
product that I think that's so impactful, being able to
Bill Stites:
identify those process steps and how they played off. Yeah, thank
Bill Stites:
you. One of the things I was very curious about, and I'm very
Bill Stites:
jealous of, I will be honest, is you get to work with one of my
Bill Stites:
favorite people in the world, our good friend, Jim bologna.
Christina Lewellen:
Wait, I thought you were gonna say me.
Hiram Cuevas:
I thought he was gonna say me. Okay, I tell you.
Hiram Cuevas:
No, no,
Christina Lewellen:
fine. I mean, if there's gonna be a
Christina Lewellen:
ranking and someone's above Christina Lewellen and maybe
Christina Lewellen:
your wife, I will allow for Jim. Jim Bologna,
Hiram Cuevas:
wow. She totally threw me under the bus there.
Hiram Cuevas:
Well, exactly. Yeah,
Christina Lewellen:
it's Jim, then Brooke stop, then me, then
Christina Lewellen:
Hiram, wow. That's how it goes. Peters at the bottom.
Bill Stites:
This is not about the two of you, and it's not
Bill Stites:
about me, which I know it normally is. This is about Jim
Bill Stites:
and Jen. And what I'm really curious about is when you think
Bill Stites:
about thought leadership, when you think about people that are
Bill Stites:
really helping empower schools grow and develop. The two of
Bill Stites:
you, being in one place is a win win for the school. And I just
Bill Stites:
want to be someone who reiterates that. Fact, for
Bill Stites:
anyone from your school who may be listening, oh, thank you. But
Bill Stites:
what is that like? What is that working relationship like, where
Bill Stites:
you've got two really high flyers? What does that look
Bill Stites:
like, from a collaborative sense,
Jenn Zanoria:
I am who I am today, much in part to his
Jenn Zanoria:
leadership and mentorship, like I am so grateful to Jim for
Jenn Zanoria:
having, like, the trust and believing in me, and he's been
Jenn Zanoria:
at Windward for quite a long time, and a lot of the
Jenn Zanoria:
innovation and a lot of the forward movement, I think, is a
Jenn Zanoria:
lot in part to him, and being able to work with him and throw
Jenn Zanoria:
ideas around for several years, right? Like he's been my
Jenn Zanoria:
supervisor and mentor the entire time that I've been there, and
Jenn Zanoria:
really, like early on, be able to demonstrate my interest and
Jenn Zanoria:
my dedication to the field, I think was really helpful along
Jenn Zanoria:
the way. He was really instrumental in finding ways to
Jenn Zanoria:
bring me into projects and even still, and so when he moved into
Jenn Zanoria:
his more leadership role, I think passing on the program as
Jenn Zanoria:
a whole, like, to me, was like, such an honor. You know, I still
Jenn Zanoria:
go to him for a lot of questions. I'm always like,
Jenn Zanoria:
chasing after him, like, no, let me just ask you one more
Jenn Zanoria:
question. Like, I just want to run this off by you. He's having
Jenn Zanoria:
the validation too is really helpful, because he just knows
Jenn Zanoria:
what he's doing all the time, you know. And I feel like
Jenn Zanoria:
there's a lot of points where I'm still trying to figure that
Jenn Zanoria:
out, but we've made some huge strides at Windward over the
Jenn Zanoria:
last several years, and just kind of where we're at right
Jenn Zanoria:
now, with adopting AI and thinking about how that's going
Jenn Zanoria:
to impact us as a school is a huge Collaboration for the both
Jenn Zanoria:
of us and how we have thought about and being intentional and
Jenn Zanoria:
how to go about it, and in part that is Jim's leadership. That's
Jenn Zanoria:
also the school's culture and the leadership and being really
Jenn Zanoria:
thoughtful and kind of, like, slow at certain points to adopt
Jenn Zanoria:
things. Jim is somebody who's, like, constantly slowing you
Jenn Zanoria:
down. Like, hold on, let's think about this and reminding me to
Jenn Zanoria:
think about, like, all of the angles before we dive into
Jenn Zanoria:
something. So with AI, it's like, let's read about it. How?
Jenn Zanoria:
What are other schools doing? Always using the community too,
Jenn Zanoria:
especially the Atlas community. It's been so
Christina Lewellen:
instrumental. What's really great about that
Christina Lewellen:
Jen is that having Jim with this natural inclination to be a
Christina Lewellen:
mentor, you know, we talk a lot about succession planning and
Christina Lewellen:
the next generation of tech leaders, and it sounds like you
Christina Lewellen:
struck gold, and we all know that Jim is incredible to have
Christina Lewellen:
somebody there who's shepherding you and making sure that you
Christina Lewellen:
have somebody to go To. You know, I think that sometimes
Christina Lewellen:
it's hard if a tech leader is either a lone ranger or doesn't
Christina Lewellen:
have support around and above them, that can be really hard.
Christina Lewellen:
So it's really great that you have that experience of somebody
Christina Lewellen:
who is supporting you as you go and not feeling threatened or
Christina Lewellen:
siloing you into a bucket. It sounds like it's a real team
Christina Lewellen:
effort.
Jenn Zanoria:
Yeah, definitely a team effort. And it's
Jenn Zanoria:
interesting too, because the way that things are structured at
Jenn Zanoria:
Windward, it's like we have, like, our ed tech team, and we
Jenn Zanoria:
are pushing a lot of that stuff forward. We have an ed tech
Jenn Zanoria:
specialist as well, Norman God has shout out. She's amazing.
Jenn Zanoria:
And so the three of us like being able to really push a lot
Jenn Zanoria:
of these ideas forward. Get in there and, like, lead workshops,
Jenn Zanoria:
have conversations, lead professional development, get
Jenn Zanoria:
into the classrooms. And like, really support teachers in their
Jenn Zanoria:
integration of technology and digital literacy is really
Jenn Zanoria:
instrumental. And then there's also the Center for Teaching and
Jenn Zanoria:
Learning aspect of it, which Jim is also a part of where that
Jenn Zanoria:
really focuses on student support, the library as a part
Jenn Zanoria:
of that reading and research. We work really closely with our
Jenn Zanoria:
librarians, and so he helped start that the Center for
Jenn Zanoria:
Teaching and Learning with David boxer, also, who is also a
Jenn Zanoria:
member of Atlas at the Blake school, and the culture that
Jenn Zanoria:
they set up is what really like created the structures to allow
Jenn Zanoria:
our programs to flourish and the teamwork to flourish as well.
Jenn Zanoria:
One of the tenets of Windward is a dynamic education and
Jenn Zanoria:
nurturing environment, and not only do we embody that with our
Jenn Zanoria:
students, but I think, also with the adults on campus as well.
Jenn Zanoria:
And so the support that comes to communication and collaboration
Jenn Zanoria:
is what really makes things happen.
Christina Lewellen:
Now, Jen, one of the major reasons that I
Christina Lewellen:
wanted to have you on the pod, and one of the main topics we
Christina Lewellen:
wanted to talk to you about, is in this realm of digital
Christina Lewellen:
citizenship right now. So I think that for a while we had
Christina Lewellen:
all kind of as an industry, come to a place where we understood
Christina Lewellen:
what digital citizenship meant and what that investment would
Christina Lewellen:
be if we trained our kids to help them be discerning
Christina Lewellen:
consumers, or consider how they are projecting themselves on
Christina Lewellen:
social media, et cetera. So for a while we had kind of been in
Christina Lewellen:
the status quo of like, yeah. Here's our digital citizenship
Christina Lewellen:
program. This is how we think about these things, and this is
Christina Lewellen:
how we view our school's obligation to provide students
Christina Lewellen:
with this education. Now, in this age of AI, things have been
Christina Lewellen:
kind of turned on their head, I guess so I would love to hear
Christina Lewellen:
given that you are at Windward your team, there is such a model
Christina Lewellen:
that a lot of schools emulate. Can you take us down the path of
Christina Lewellen:
understanding a little bit about how you all view digital
Christina Lewellen:
citizenship, now that things have been disrupted, it
Jenn Zanoria:
is such a big topic, and we're still wrapping
Jenn Zanoria:
our minds around it, and like also thinking about, like, where
Jenn Zanoria:
could these lessons live within our schedule? Schedules are
Jenn Zanoria:
always a thing at schools that are constantly being discussed
Jenn Zanoria:
and how to make it better. So we've had to, we, meaning ed
Jenn Zanoria:
tech, has had to, like, really fight for whatever time that we
Jenn Zanoria:
get to discuss digital citizenship. I feel like early
Jenn Zanoria:
on around the status quo era that you were talking about
Jenn Zanoria:
Kristina like, we were able to, like push into classes and bring
Jenn Zanoria:
it in naturally through our project collaborations with
Jenn Zanoria:
faculty, but we have dedicated time with seventh and eighth
Jenn Zanoria:
grade that we discuss digital citizenship. What does that look
Jenn Zanoria:
like currently? But also like to bring in conversations around
Jenn Zanoria:
like, what is AI? What does it look like? How is it trained?
Jenn Zanoria:
We're starting to have those conversations even in 11th and
Jenn Zanoria:
12th. Also, we don't have it like I mentioned. We don't have
Jenn Zanoria:
a dedicated place for all that lives outside of seminar, which
Jenn Zanoria:
is where we see in middle school. We see the kids once
Jenn Zanoria:
every six weeks because they're on a rotation schedule. So that
Jenn Zanoria:
hurdle makes it kind of hard to get any sort of momentum going
Jenn Zanoria:
around any kinds of conversations. But this year,
Jenn Zanoria:
we've been really intentional about having conversations with
Jenn Zanoria:
students, specifically about what is AI, how is it trained?
Jenn Zanoria:
What is bias in AI talking about hallucinations. We also
Jenn Zanoria:
partnered with psychology this year and last year, I think, to
Jenn Zanoria:
talk about algorithms. And it was really interesting to talk
Jenn Zanoria:
to them about how algorithms in AI will show up in research. And
Jenn Zanoria:
the conversations that came out of that were really, really eye
Jenn Zanoria:
opening. Like the students, they've heard about algorithms,
Jenn Zanoria:
they've heard about AI, they've used chat GPT, but to have them
Jenn Zanoria:
think about like, how might it impact their research in the
Jenn Zanoria:
digital realm outside of books and things, was really
Jenn Zanoria:
interesting. In fact, at the end of those conversations, they
Jenn Zanoria:
asked if we were going to be having those conversations with
Jenn Zanoria:
the younger students, even. And so now we've started that
Jenn Zanoria:
conversation, but thinking about like so do you talk to these
Jenn Zanoria:
teenagers who spend so much time on social media and online and
Jenn Zanoria:
about deep fakes and about mis and disinformation. One of my
Jenn Zanoria:
goals for next year is to really partner with our history
Jenn Zanoria:
classes, to really talk about like, how do you discern what is
Jenn Zanoria:
real that you see online? How do you know that whatever post
Jenn Zanoria:
you're looking at is real? So trying to really think about
Jenn Zanoria:
like, what are these big topics. So there's like, mis and
Jenn Zanoria:
disinformation, there's like, deep fakes, which I have so many
Jenn Zanoria:
concerns about, and how do we talk to kids about it? Where is
Jenn Zanoria:
the right place to have these conversations? So for us, I've
Jenn Zanoria:
been looking at who are the teachers that are currently
Jenn Zanoria:
using AI to support different projects and like, what are the
Jenn Zanoria:
AI literacy, digital literacy? Because it's tied together at
Jenn Zanoria:
this point too, right, where it's like a natural partnership
Jenn Zanoria:
to have those conversations in class that then also relates to
Jenn Zanoria:
whatever project or whatever curriculum they're exploring at
Jenn Zanoria:
that moment, with the hopes, right, that they transfer those
Jenn Zanoria:
skills and those thoughts to their personal lives also. And
Jenn Zanoria:
so when I have the chance to talk to the young folks at our
Jenn Zanoria:
school, especially the 11th and 12th graders, I try to talk to
Jenn Zanoria:
them about thinking of like themselves in the future. And so
Jenn Zanoria:
like, Who do you want to be known as? What are you curating?
Jenn Zanoria:
How are you curating yourself, especially as they think about
Jenn Zanoria:
going into the workforce, having internships, knowledge, all of
Jenn Zanoria:
that stuff. And so it's a really, really big topic, and
Jenn Zanoria:
it's having, like, real world impacts, and so do we navigate
Jenn Zanoria:
that as a society, as individuals, as a community. So
Jenn Zanoria:
it's something that I'm seriously grappling with and
Jenn Zanoria:
trying to figure out myself, and just trying to read everything
Jenn Zanoria:
that I can possibly get my hands on. So if you've got resources,
Jenn Zanoria:
send them on over. John,
Bill Stites:
I've got a question. I want to dig in on a
Bill Stites:
little bit of that I loved hearing about, how you involve
Bill Stites:
the librarians? You were talking about how you were able to hit
Bill Stites:
specific grade levels. You know, our middle school ed tech
Bill Stites:
person, Jackie Chung, she does a great job with our fourth and
Bill Stites:
fifth grade. We have a program called Tech Bytes that they go
Bill Stites:
through and they do all of this work. But, you know, one of the
Bill Stites:
things we keep circling back to is, as you're outlining all of
Bill Stites:
these things that are, like, really, really important, you
Bill Stites:
know, I think back to when in the early years of my career,
Bill Stites:
you would have a tech class, and that class was, you know, a
Bill Stites:
scheduled class. And there were some pros to that, in that there
Bill Stites:
was a dedicated time where you were going to go in and you were
Bill Stites:
going to focus on this, but it was often out of context, and it
Bill Stites:
wasn't within what was actually happening. And you didn't have
Bill Stites:
all of the buy in that you have, and it happening from within,
Bill Stites:
what's actually going on in the classroom. So given these issues
Bill Stites:
that we now have, and the number of these types of issues, would
Bill Stites:
you ever want to see, and I don't know how it would be
Bill Stites:
structured, I'm curious as to what you might see it looking
Bill Stites:
like. Would you ever want to go back to a more formalized tech
Bill Stites:
class that is either required for part of the year in every
Bill Stites:
grade. Or, you know, how would you want to do that? If you had
Bill Stites:
the ability to control the schedule, if you had the ability
Bill Stites:
to use everything at your disposal to kind of build that
Bill Stites:
out, would you want to go to that? And what would it look
Bill Stites:
like, and if not, how might it look if you had a blank
Jenn Zanoria:
canvas? Well, it's like you're looking into my
Jenn Zanoria:
crystal ball and my dreams, honestly. Because, like, I love
Jenn Zanoria:
that. It is something that I talked about. I loved tech class
Jenn Zanoria:
too in high school, like, I think that's also where I, like,
Jenn Zanoria:
fell in love with what I do. And I'm like, I was the kid that
Jenn Zanoria:
finished early, and was like, let me show you how to do this,
Jenn Zanoria:
right? I would love to have some sort of, maybe not a full year,
Jenn Zanoria:
but like a boot camp situation, where every kid goes through a
Jenn Zanoria:
week of and it's like age appropriate, skill appropriate,
Jenn Zanoria:
where you get to get the skills, have conversations, discussions
Jenn Zanoria:
around some of the concerns, and especially around ethics of
Jenn Zanoria:
things and best habits, best practices, around social media
Jenn Zanoria:
and digital citizenship and cybersecurity and AI and all of
Jenn Zanoria:
these topics that otherwise we have trouble finding homes for
Jenn Zanoria:
in orientation at the beginning of the year or just before
Jenn Zanoria:
school starts. Bill, we also have these sessions where, like,
Jenn Zanoria:
you said, they're out of context, you know, like, how do
Jenn Zanoria:
you use Canvas? How do you turn in an assignment? Like, there's
Jenn Zanoria:
no real world context for that, for a seventh grader who has
Jenn Zanoria:
never used it before and hasn't even been in a class before. So
Jenn Zanoria:
that is something that we truly struggle with, to the point that
Jenn Zanoria:
with seminar, I started coupling digital citizenship and fluency
Jenn Zanoria:
lessons with Google Docs or Canva or something like that,
Jenn Zanoria:
like create, like a troubleshooting poster that
Jenn Zanoria:
walks people through, like a hard restart, or something like
Jenn Zanoria:
that. I've also been kicking around the idea, I know other
Jenn Zanoria:
schools have done this too, having a class dedicated to
Jenn Zanoria:
exploring and researching, like aI ethics and concerns, where
Jenn Zanoria:
you can just dive in and you have the time and the space to
Jenn Zanoria:
have the conversations. How wonderful would that be,
Jenn Zanoria:
especially for our older students. I think that would be
Jenn Zanoria:
really helpful, maybe even for the ninth and 10th graders too,
Jenn Zanoria:
because I feel like they really could use a lot of that. Maybe
Jenn Zanoria:
theirs is more about, like, social media and like, how do
Jenn Zanoria:
you navigate this new world where so much of your social
Jenn Zanoria:
life exists in a digital space?
Hiram Cuevas:
So Jen, we started this by you actually referencing
Hiram Cuevas:
a crystal ball. It's funny, you mentioned that because I
Hiram Cuevas:
actually had something in the chat that says a crystal ball
Hiram Cuevas:
about concerns with AI. So my question to you, when you're
Hiram Cuevas:
talking about that tech class per se is, what do you see as
Hiram Cuevas:
perhaps one of the and this could be for nines and 10s and
Hiram Cuevas:
then elevens and 12, since you seem to have broken it up, what
Hiram Cuevas:
do you think are the primary or the most important skills for a
Hiram Cuevas:
student today to have as AI is becoming so sophisticated,
Hiram Cuevas:
that's a really
Jenn Zanoria:
big question. The thing that comes to mind first
Jenn Zanoria:
and foremost is, like, the ability to discern accuracy of
Jenn Zanoria:
information. Be able to, like, verify information, right? Like,
Jenn Zanoria:
how do you know that what you're reading, whether it's put out by
Jenn Zanoria:
a chat bot or that you're seeing it online? How do you know that
Jenn Zanoria:
that is accurate? Do you have the pathways to think about
Jenn Zanoria:
where should you go and verify that information, like, how many
Jenn Zanoria:
sources do you need to go check that? You know, I also like one
Jenn Zanoria:
thing that I'm noticing a lot with students today is the grit
Jenn Zanoria:
and resilience that has to do with troubleshooting, like, can
Jenn Zanoria:
they figure out how to solve a problem? Like, can they sit in
Jenn Zanoria:
the discomfort of, like, their device not working? And how do
Jenn Zanoria:
you navigate that when it comes to AI, yeah, also, like, the
Jenn Zanoria:
skill of not just critical thinking, which we. Hear a lot
Jenn Zanoria:
about but knowing when you might reach out, like, when and during
Jenn Zanoria:
your process, will you utilize a tool like AI? How would you
Jenn Zanoria:
utilize a tool like AI? Why? Why would you use that the skills of
Jenn Zanoria:
like, realizing like, when you should step in and take
Jenn Zanoria:
ownership versus like, when you should offload something to a
Jenn Zanoria:
machine or to a software. I think those are a lot of things
Jenn Zanoria:
that a we're grappling with as educators. But two, I think the
Jenn Zanoria:
students, we need to figure out how to really impart those
Jenn Zanoria:
skills on them, and it's going to be tricky, especially as we
Jenn Zanoria:
hear about a lot of students in universities and colleges that
Jenn Zanoria:
are taking the easy way out and just using AI and chat GPT to
Jenn Zanoria:
like, write their papers, and it seems like there's no real back
Jenn Zanoria:
and forth. There's no like, thumb print on their work. And
Jenn Zanoria:
so I think the skills of knowing when to utilize support systems,
Jenn Zanoria:
when to ask for help, when to reach out to another person
Jenn Zanoria:
versus an emerging technology, and then also knowing like when
Jenn Zanoria:
to disengage from tech, when should you step away from your
Jenn Zanoria:
device, setting up structures that will help you navigate tech
Jenn Zanoria:
addiction. You know, I know that I get sucked into my social
Jenn Zanoria:
media feeds and end up Doom scrolling, and I struggle, as a
Jenn Zanoria:
middle aged woman, like I struggle with Doom scrolling. So
Jenn Zanoria:
like, I can't imagine, like, there's some of our young folks,
Jenn Zanoria:
especially like that live so much of their lives online, sort
Jenn Zanoria:
of dope hobbies that might be analog, I don't know.
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, no, 100% I was just having a
Christina Lewellen:
conversation with our producer, Peter about this, and I spent
Christina Lewellen:
this time out in Yellowstone with my bear spray. And what was
Christina Lewellen:
actually kind of peaceful about it is that there are huge chunks
Christina Lewellen:
of the national park that have zero reception like SOS you are
Christina Lewellen:
not getting a signal. You're just hoping that your Google
Christina Lewellen:
Maps Hang in there, they hand you an old school map, and here
Christina Lewellen:
are the little wooden signs that you can barely see on the side
Christina Lewellen:
of the road. And, you know, you just kind of figure it out. And
Christina Lewellen:
it was a peaceful experience because I noticed that. I
Christina Lewellen:
noticed more, yeah, like, I just was like, aware of the color of
Christina Lewellen:
the trees and the miles didn't just kind of blur by not that
Christina Lewellen:
I'd be sitting there on my phone, but it puts you in a
Christina Lewellen:
different state of mind when you are looking for a sign or you
Christina Lewellen:
are following a map, versus having your head in the phone
Christina Lewellen:
all the time. Yeah,
Jenn Zanoria:
the idea of, like, get off your screen. I go to a
Jenn Zanoria:
lot of concerts and, like, one of the things that I truly miss
Jenn Zanoria:
about my youth is being able to watch the show with my eyeballs
Jenn Zanoria:
and not through other people's screens from the audience.
Jenn Zanoria:
You're not going to go back and watch that video of the band
Jenn Zanoria:
playing on your little phone. You want them to
Hiram Cuevas:
hold your cigarette lighter up. Yeah. I
Jenn Zanoria:
miss that. I miss that just being aware. And I
Jenn Zanoria:
think too, you know, like the last two years, we've done this,
Jenn Zanoria:
begin with belonging, two week period where we put phones away.
Jenn Zanoria:
And this year we instituted a cell phone the yonder bags for
Jenn Zanoria:
grades seven through nine. Next year will be seven through 10.
Jenn Zanoria:
And with the period of beginning with belonging, students and
Jenn Zanoria:
faculty were encouraged to have their devices away, particularly
Jenn Zanoria:
during the common period. So like, nutrition and lunch and
Jenn Zanoria:
things. And can I tell you that the kids were nicer. People were
Jenn Zanoria:
nicer. They were just talking to each other. And so, Hiram, you
Jenn Zanoria:
were asking about, like, the skills, like, honestly, like
Jenn Zanoria:
being able to connect face to face, I think is like a huge
Jenn Zanoria:
thing that we kind of need to find again as a society, because
Jenn Zanoria:
it just helps us be more empathetic and feel more
Jenn Zanoria:
connected. Because the idea of, like, alone together, it makes
Jenn Zanoria:
me so sad. There's a time and a place for that, I guess is the
Jenn Zanoria:
thing that I'm trying to say. I
Bill Stites:
was just thinking that Christina, I want to give
Bill Stites:
her a practical suggestion for the next time she's out like
Bill Stites:
that. Offline Maps. That way you don't get lost. You don't need
Bill Stites:
the signal.
Christina Lewellen:
Oh yes, I definitely, because I had
Christina Lewellen:
anxiety about it. I was offline mapping for the first day or
Christina Lewellen:
two, and then I was like, Okay, I got this. There are signs. I
Christina Lewellen:
know how to read a map. One of the funniest videos I ever took
Christina Lewellen:
of my now 23 year old daughter was she was probably around 21
Christina Lewellen:
or 22 we were in line at the Starbucks, and she was in the
Christina Lewellen:
back seat of my mom's car, and she pulled from the pocket of
Christina Lewellen:
the back seat a map. And I said, open that up. And I asked her to
Christina Lewellen:
start reading the map. And it was a map of upstate New York
Christina Lewellen:
where we grew up. And she was like, What are these blue
Christina Lewellen:
things? I'm like, those are the Finger Lakes. Like, I don't she
Christina Lewellen:
had no idea how to read a map. I'm like, okay, somewhere we
Christina Lewellen:
have failed you. It was the funniest video I have ever
Christina Lewellen:
taken. It's kind of like, also when you have a kid pick up a
Christina Lewellen:
phone and know how to dial, kind of an old school phone at a
Christina Lewellen:
hotel or whatever, and they're like, where's the send button?
Christina Lewellen:
In no Send button.
Bill Stites:
Well, just think of that statement. There is no dial
Bill Stites:
on the phone anymore. You know, it's all buttons. So just that
Bill Stites:
phrase alone, dial the number. I mean, no one. Where does that
Bill Stites:
come from?
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, I mean, and here's the thing, we
Christina Lewellen:
can lament for the way it was with us. But at the end of the
Christina Lewellen:
day, the kids are in this environment. This is their
Christina Lewellen:
world. So whether you're they're going to be designing custom
Christina Lewellen:
gpts For everyday things that they do, or if it evolves far,
Christina Lewellen:
far beyond what we can even begin to imagine. Now with
Christina Lewellen:
agentic AI, I think that rather than longing for the past, what
Christina Lewellen:
I love about the work that you guys do is we can make our jokes
Christina Lewellen:
about being the 90s babies or whatever going through our
Christina Lewellen:
heyday, that we're definitely helping these kids define what
Christina Lewellen:
their generation looks like and what this all means to them. And
Christina Lewellen:
that's a tough thing to wrestle when it's something that we
Christina Lewellen:
didn't come up
Jenn Zanoria:
with. Yeah, one of the things that I've been
Jenn Zanoria:
grappling with it was a thought that came up in the AI infused
Jenn Zanoria:
classroom by Holly Clark, was thinking about the year that our
Jenn Zanoria:
students will retire. It's 2070, 2080, that these students will
Jenn Zanoria:
retire, what's the world gonna look like then I have no idea.
Jenn Zanoria:
Like I have wishes for crystal ball, but like I don't, it
Jenn Zanoria:
doesn't go that far into the future, right? And so trying to
Jenn Zanoria:
grapple with what are the skills that we need to impart on our
Jenn Zanoria:
students that will serve them past the university level, past
Jenn Zanoria:
their entry to working and far into their future, but being
Jenn Zanoria:
flexible and nimble and having a love of learning is, I think,
Jenn Zanoria:
some of those skills that they're going to need to have
Jenn Zanoria:
too.
Christina Lewellen:
So that's all very heady to think about
Christina Lewellen:
where this is all going. And I know that none of us really have
Christina Lewellen:
that crystal ball, but one of the things, Jen, that we should
Christina Lewellen:
talk about before we run out of time is that you have been
Christina Lewellen:
recently elected to the Atlas board of directors. Yes, yes.
Christina Lewellen:
And while I certainly don't think we're going to be
Christina Lewellen:
unpacking what happens in 2080 we are certainly kind of looking
Christina Lewellen:
ahead to what this all means for our industry, for the
Christina Lewellen:
professionals that affiliate and associate with us, and so it's
Christina Lewellen:
such a pleasure to have you onboarding. You're in great
Christina Lewellen:
company, including my co host here, Hiram. So welcome to the
Christina Lewellen:
Atlas board. And while I'm on that topic, we have an
Christina Lewellen:
interesting little governance evolution, and that is that
Christina Lewellen:
because of some complex IRS rules that is not worth going
Christina Lewellen:
into. Now, when we established a certification program, the T
Christina Lewellen:
list program, we also stood up a 501, c6, that is a affiliate
Christina Lewellen:
organization, a very deeply connected organization, with
Christina Lewellen:
Atlas, and that's called the Atlas certification council. So
Christina Lewellen:
not only on this podcast, am I speaking today with a current
Christina Lewellen:
board member, that's Hiram, but I'm also welcoming as new board
Christina Lewellen:
members, Jen, you are going to be sitting on the Atlas board.
Christina Lewellen:
The kind of Og board and Bill is the first non Atlas board member
Christina Lewellen:
that we have elected to the Atlas certification Council
Christina Lewellen:
board. So these two organizations are obviously
Christina Lewellen:
deeply entwined, you know, like this is the Atlas umbrella. We
Christina Lewellen:
just happen to have a c3 and a c6 and each of you is now
Christina Lewellen:
joining the board. So it's cool that I have all of you on this
Christina Lewellen:
call. I promise I'm not going to go into board orientation right
Christina Lewellen:
now. That's for next week, but congratulations and welcome, I
Christina Lewellen:
guess, for both Bill and Jen, I would love to hear, why did you
Christina Lewellen:
decide to do this? Why did you decide to run for the Atlas
Christina Lewellen:
board? And are you excited or scared, or yes,
Jenn Zanoria:
I'm really excited. I was always curious
Jenn Zanoria:
about the board, and, like, what boards do, and being a member of
Jenn Zanoria:
Atlas for so long, and going to the conferences, being a part
Jenn Zanoria:
of, like, the organization on so many different levels. Like, I
Jenn Zanoria:
was a part of ECat. I've been a mentor. I was part of the AI
Jenn Zanoria:
task force when it opened and you were able to self nominate.
Jenn Zanoria:
Yep, that's new. That was like, the huge turning point, because
Jenn Zanoria:
I was always, like, secretly hoping somebody would nominate
Jenn Zanoria:
me. The self application was really a game changer for me,
Jenn Zanoria:
and I was looking to have more of an impact and be able to give
Jenn Zanoria:
back to not just the organization, but the community,
Jenn Zanoria:
in a way. And so I threw my hat in the ring. I really didn't
Jenn Zanoria:
think that I would be elected. I have a huge case of imposter
Jenn Zanoria:
syndrome, and so it is really exciting. I'm just really,
Jenn Zanoria:
really excited to not only be here having this conversation
Jenn Zanoria:
with you all, but also to be a part of the bigger conversation
Jenn Zanoria:
with Atlas, especially as we think about what the future
Jenn Zanoria:
looks like in this huge moment where things are changing and
Jenn Zanoria:
changing rapidly, like, how do we grapple with some of these
Jenn Zanoria:
big questions, and how can we help support educators and tech
Jenn Zanoria:
leaders in this work?
Bill Stites:
So there were two main reasons. One was to hang
Bill Stites:
out more with Hiram, and two. So was because I knew somebody
Bill Stites:
needed to keep Peter Frank in line in the work that he was
Bill Stites:
doing on T list, and that was something that was going to
Bill Stites:
require a lot of work and a really strong hand, and I think
Bill Stites:
that's where I decided to come in. But honestly, I think the
Bill Stites:
main reason for me was karma. I've taken so much from Atlas
Bill Stites:
over the years, I think that I've leaned on the organization.
Bill Stites:
I've beg, borrowed and stolen different things over the years,
Bill Stites:
and really feel like I've gotten so much from it that I wanted an
Bill Stites:
opportunity to give back and give back at a level that the
Bill Stites:
board would provide, and in a way that hopefully volunteering
Bill Stites:
for that work, volunteering time, giving that up and giving
Bill Stites:
that to the organization I thought was the least I could
Bill Stites:
do, given everything I've taken from it over the years. I'm
Bill Stites:
excited. I'm excited to work with everyone, to spend time
Bill Stites:
with everyone, to learn more, to steal more, but to give back as
Bill Stites:
much as I can to the organization that's given so
Bill Stites:
much.
Hiram Cuevas:
And Jen, you're not alone in terms of that
Hiram Cuevas:
imposter syndrome. 100% everybody that I've spoken to
Hiram Cuevas:
who's been on the board has said, I feel like I am not the
Hiram Cuevas:
smartest person in the room. There's a lot of humility on the
Hiram Cuevas:
board. But when we are together as an aggregate, we truly are
Hiram Cuevas:
representing one of Atlas main edicts, which is that we are the
Hiram Cuevas:
expert. Collectively, we are the expert and we do what's best for
Hiram Cuevas:
all of our members.
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, what's really incredible about any
Christina Lewellen:
board service? Because I've definitely done many stints
Christina Lewellen:
where I walked into a board service leadership role and felt
Christina Lewellen:
that kind of feeling of, oh, man, how did I get picked? I'm
Christina Lewellen:
the youngest, or I'm the newest, or whatever, right? I think that
Christina Lewellen:
what's incredible about the Atlas board is that you guys
Christina Lewellen:
will both learn and now the Atlas certification Council
Christina Lewellen:
board is that there's a lot of collegiality and support, but
Christina Lewellen:
also you have an incredible staff that does the stuff. So
Christina Lewellen:
what's really awesome is it's this big shift for technology
Christina Lewellen:
leaders. You guys come into the room and you think you need to
Christina Lewellen:
fix stuff, but that's actually my job and my team's job. So
Christina Lewellen:
what's crazy is that you'll come into the room and you give us
Christina Lewellen:
good ideas, you give us directions. So I always use the
Christina Lewellen:
analogy Hiram hears it so many times, is that you guys tell us,
Christina Lewellen:
hey, we want to go to California, and then we figure
Christina Lewellen:
out whether we should take a train, plane or automobile, and
Christina Lewellen:
when to stop and get snacks. It's a mental shift. But I'm so
Christina Lewellen:
glad that you mentioned the self nomination process, because that
Christina Lewellen:
was very intentional to be more representative across our
Christina Lewellen:
community. We got some incredible applications this
Christina Lewellen:
year. Our NomCom had a very difficult process to go through,
Christina Lewellen:
and so I'm just really glad to be able to welcome both of you,
Christina Lewellen:
and I'll take you through all the details at your upcoming
Christina Lewellen:
board orientation.
Jenn Zanoria:
I'm really excited. I can't wait. Actually,
Hiram Cuevas:
you'll get to see Kristina staff do her, as she
Hiram Cuevas:
likes to say, chugga, chugga. The Chugga, chugga. They really
Hiram Cuevas:
get going.
Christina Lewellen:
They're pretty good at it. Well, look
Christina Lewellen:
before we wrap up, Jen, I just want to thank you, of course,
Christina Lewellen:
for your time and for coming in. These conversations are always a
Christina Lewellen:
little bit well. They're certainly unscripted, and we
Christina Lewellen:
don't provide a lot of background and questions ahead
Christina Lewellen:
of time, because we love these conversations as they unfold,
Christina Lewellen:
and I am thrilled with how this one went. So I do want to thank
Christina Lewellen:
you for joining us. And since I am trying to bring some non
Christina Lewellen:
zombie energy into the space, we sometimes kind of wrap up with
Christina Lewellen:
things like, what coffee do you drink? Or, you know, the guys
Christina Lewellen:
always want to know what weapon you'd use to kill a zombie. So
Christina Lewellen:
instead of that, we started where Bill took us thanks to the
Christina Lewellen:
tiny dog, not the big dog. Do you happen to be a pet owner?
Christina Lewellen:
I'm not okay, so if you had to do like the dog or cat thing,
Christina Lewellen:
and then my second question is whether you would go small
Christina Lewellen:
animal or large animal?
Jenn Zanoria:
Oh, I'm a cat person, through and through.
Jenn Zanoria:
Yeah, I don't think you're gonna break any ribs if you have a
Jenn Zanoria:
cat. I If you have a cat. I identify with cats. It's like, I
Jenn Zanoria:
need my alone time. Don't bother me. And it's like, when I want
Jenn Zanoria:
to hang out, I'll hang out and
Christina Lewellen:
I get you so Bill, I think maybe the moral of
Christina Lewellen:
the story is, in time, a cat won't break your
Bill Stites:
ribs. I have one cat now. I've had up to three at
Bill Stites:
any one point. So yes, they are by far, a lot easier and
Bill Stites:
definitely less stressful, and you're less likely to injure
Bill Stites:
yourself with them. For sure,
Jenn Zanoria:
I have a rule where it's like you can't have
Jenn Zanoria:
more pets than people in the house either.
Christina Lewellen:
That's pretty good
Jenn Zanoria:
rule. It's good rule. You don't want to be
Jenn Zanoria:
overrun. You know
Christina Lewellen:
that's true. Well, Bill, we wish you Happy
Christina Lewellen:
healing. And Jen, I hope that you have a fantastic and
Christina Lewellen:
productive summer. I know summers are always busy. I've
Christina Lewellen:
actually visited windward during the summer, and it was a massive
Christina Lewellen:
construction zone A couple years back, so I know you probably
Christina Lewellen:
have a very full summer ahead, but we wish you a productive and
Christina Lewellen:
happy and healthy summer. And thank you again for joining. Us.
Christina Lewellen:
Thank you for having
Peter Frank:
me. This has been talking technology with Atlas,
Peter Frank:
produced by the Association of technology leaders in
Peter Frank:
independent schools. For more information about Atlas and
Peter Frank:
Atlas membership, please visit theatlas.org if you enjoyed this
Peter Frank:
discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and share this
Peter Frank:
podcast with your colleagues in the independent school
Peter Frank:
community. Thank you for listening. You.
