The Art of AI: Fostering Creativity and Agency with Dr. Kylie Peppler
Presented by:
Dr. Kylie Peppler of UC Irvine joins the podcast to discuss the deep connections between art, technology, and learning. She explores how playful learning—from toys to AI—can foster creativity and student agency. Dr. Peppler also offers educators a framework for embracing AI as a creative tool rather than something to fear.
- Connected Arts Learning: Peppler, K., Dahn, M., & Ito, M. (2023). The Connected Arts Learning Framework: An expanded view of the purposes and possibilities for arts 99learning. The Wallace Foundation.
- Recrafting Computer Science: Speer, S., Huang, J., Yankova, N., Rose, C., Peppler, K., Orta-Martinez, M. (2023) RoboLoom: An Open-Source Loom Kit for Interdisciplinary Engagement in Math, Engineering, and Textiles. The ACM Symposium on User Interface Software and Technology (UIST) 2023. San Francisco, CA.
- StoryAI: Han, A., Zhou, X., Cai, Z., Han, S., Ko, R., Corrigan, S., & Peppler, K. 2024. Teachers, Parents, and Students’ Perspectives on Integrating Generative AI into Elementary Literacy Education.
- STEAM: Peppler, K., & Thompson, N. (2024). Tools and materials as non-neutral actors in STEAM education. Journal of the Learning Sciences, 1-38
- E-textiles: Peppler, K. & Bender, S. (2013). Maker movement spreads innovation one project at a time. Phi Delta Kappan, 95(3), pp. 22-27.
- Scratch (scratch.mit.edu): Peppler, K. (2010). Media arts: Arts education for a digital age. Teachers College Record, 112(8), 2118–2153.
- Connected Learning Lab - UC Irvine, research institute bringing together researchers across social, cultural, and technical fields, currently focused on: Digital Wellbeing, Research-Practice Partnerships, Neurodiversity and Learning, and Growing Up with AI.
- Build Lab, program at St Christopher’s School combining the best of STEM/STEAM approaches with a broad, skills-based, project-centered focus
- ATLIS AI resources
- Christina’s husband Richard’s grandfather, Verne Lewellen, Green Bay Packer | Photo of Richard with cousins
Transcript
Narrator:
Dan, welcome to Talking technology with ATLIS,
Narrator:
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
Narrator:
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Narrator:
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
Narrator:
special guests from the Independent School community,
Narrator:
and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Narrator:
And now please welcome your host. Christina Lewellen,
Christina Lewellen:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to
Christina Lewellen:
talking technology with ATLIS. I'm Christina Lewellen. I'm the
Christina Lewellen:
president and CEO of the Association of technology
Christina Lewellen:
leaders in independent
Bill Stites:
schools. And I am Bill Stites, the Director of
Bill Stites:
Technology at Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New
Bill Stites:
Jersey,
Hiram Cuevas:
and I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of
Hiram Cuevas:
Information Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher
Hiram Cuevas:
school in Richmond, Virginia. Hello.
Christina Lewellen:
Good afternoon. Welcome back, guys.
Christina Lewellen:
How are you today? Doing well. Doing better today. Good. I'm so
Christina Lewellen:
glad we are recording on a Monday afternoon. I know many
Christina Lewellen:
people listen to this in the morning when we drop so if
Christina Lewellen:
you're listening in the morning, good morning, but it's a Monday,
Christina Lewellen:
and you guys certainly look a little more smiley than the last
Christina Lewellen:
time I saw you. Did you have a good weekend?
Bill Stites:
Yes, I had my youngest. Craig. Just turned 21
Bill Stites:
happy birthday, Craig. Happy birthday. Craig, and we brought
Bill Stites:
him home and celebrate it in appropriate Stites fashion. So
Bill Stites:
it went quite well, which meant whiskey. Well, maybe, maybe not.
Bill Stites:
You know, he is 21 so I can probably say definitively, yes,
Bill Stites:
there was some whiskey involved. There was some time at the Irish
Bill Stites:
Pub, and there were three days of celebrating, because no
Bill Stites:
birthday should be celebrated on just one day. It should be
Bill Stites:
celebrated across multiple days. The other thing that's got me
Bill Stites:
smiling is this is weekend two of the smoked meat Palooza that
Bill Stites:
has been going on at my house, I've been throwing down ribs and
Bill Stites:
pork butts and making all sorts of pulled pork and other things
Bill Stites:
where my oldest doesn't let it kind of leave any portion of the
Bill Stites:
house. I can't bring any to anyone, because he devours it
Bill Stites:
all within the course of a day or two. And that's a lot of pork
Bill Stites:
to be ingested by any one human. But he seems to be doing okay.
Hiram Cuevas:
That's hard to top.
Christina Lewellen:
I mean, that sounds really exciting. What do
Christina Lewellen:
you got, Hiram, we
Hiram Cuevas:
actually spent a pleasant weekend at Parents
Hiram Cuevas:
Weekend up at Virginia Tech, where you got to visit our
Hiram Cuevas:
daughter, who is in the architecture school up there.
Hiram Cuevas:
And while she is not an avid football fan, we did this, got
Hiram Cuevas:
had a chance to spend a good deal of time in her studio, to
Hiram Cuevas:
see a lot of the work that she's doing. And it's true to form,
Hiram Cuevas:
engineers and architects students are working all the
Hiram Cuevas:
time, regardless if there's a game going on. That studio was
Hiram Cuevas:
packed with students. We were thrilled to see her, and it was
Hiram Cuevas:
nice to get out of Richard for a few days.
Christina Lewellen:
That's awesome. Well, I also just want
Christina Lewellen:
to quickly mention kind of a highlight of my weekend. I don't
Christina Lewellen:
know if I've mentioned it on this podcast before, but did you
Christina Lewellen:
guys know that Richard's grandfather played for the Green
Christina Lewellen:
Bay Packers. Have I told you all that? Yes. Okay, so what was
Christina Lewellen:
kind of cool is that a couple of his cousins were rolling through
Christina Lewellen:
the area on the way back toward Green Bay, and so three of Vern
Christina Lewellen:
lewellen's grandchildren were together this weekend, my
Christina Lewellen:
husband and two of his cousins. There was a lot of talk about
Christina Lewellen:
Green Bay Packers and how the team is doing real hard loss
Christina Lewellen:
this weekend, tough weekend, tough weekend, to be a Green Bay
Christina Lewellen:
fan, but it was really exciting to get them together and to
Christina Lewellen:
think about that legacy. They have not seen each other. In
Christina Lewellen:
particular, Richard has not seen one of his cousins for about 50
Christina Lewellen:
years. And so they got together and had a blast like it was
Christina Lewellen:
nothing. My god, yeah, it was really cool. They look a lot
Christina Lewellen:
alike, too. I'm wondering if we should drop a pic on the show
Christina Lewellen:
notes, because
Hiram Cuevas:
definitely, especially if you got a picture
Hiram Cuevas:
of your grandfather in his uniform.
Christina Lewellen:
Ooh, that's a good idea, too. I'll have to
Christina Lewellen:
dig one out. Okay, cool guys. So hey, look, it is time for us to
Christina Lewellen:
dig into our episode today. I'm really excited we have another
Christina Lewellen:
really cool guest. This was a neat one you guys, because over
Christina Lewellen:
the summer, we did ATLIS AI workshop. And I know we talk a
Christina Lewellen:
lot about that, but this is kind of an interesting angle to think
Christina Lewellen:
about things from the technology vantage point, also some arts
Christina Lewellen:
vantage points, which I know is something bill, that you have a
Christina Lewellen:
background in. So today we welcome to the pod. Dr Kylie
Christina Lewellen:
pepler, she is a professor of informatics and education at the
Christina Lewellen:
University of California Irvine. Dr pepler, thank you for joining
Christina Lewellen:
us today. Thank you, Christina, it's so awesome to have you
Christina Lewellen:
here. You direct the creativity labs. You're the co director of
Christina Lewellen:
the connected learning lab. You research in the space of the
Christina Lewellen:
intersection of arts, as I mentioned, and new technology
Christina Lewellen:
learning ecosystems. You have this focus on creative aspects
Christina Lewellen:
of maker center practices, and so our members. Touch a lot of
Christina Lewellen:
that stuff. So can you start by just telling us a little bit
Christina Lewellen:
about what your area of focus and research is? I'm also
Christina Lewellen:
curious about what the connected learning lab is.
Kylie Peppler:
Ah, well, my area of research really brings
Kylie Peppler:
together my interest in the arts and new technologies together.
Kylie Peppler:
And so we we actually have a black box theater, that when you
Kylie Peppler:
walk in, you actually get to see a lot of our projects in action.
Kylie Peppler:
And so you'll see Jaccard looms that many of our undergraduates
Kylie Peppler:
have put together, and then they're printing textiles as
Kylie Peppler:
part of their undergraduate coursework and engineering and
Kylie Peppler:
computer science and learning about color theory of textiles
Kylie Peppler:
and so forth. In another quarter, you're going to see a
Kylie Peppler:
lot of the electronic textiles work that we do where you're
Kylie Peppler:
embedded wearable computers and where dancers can actually
Kylie Peppler:
control the composition of the music. Other collaborations that
Kylie Peppler:
we've had with industry partners, like Merlin mind,
Kylie Peppler:
where we've helped them to develop an AI assistive device
Kylie Peppler:
that's in classrooms and so forth. And so we really sort of
Kylie Peppler:
bring creativity, and I think a need in today's classrooms that
Kylie Peppler:
we try to solve to make learning more fun but also higher quality
Kylie Peppler:
throughout
Christina Lewellen:
that's really cool. So how did you walk
Christina Lewellen:
this path? We can definitely come back to the creativity labs
Christina Lewellen:
and the connected learning lab. I'm curious about like, where
Christina Lewellen:
did this come from in you?
Kylie Peppler:
Well, one of my earliest memories, I knew I
Kylie Peppler:
wanted to be a toy designer. I just loved the way, you know,
Kylie Peppler:
toys operated, you know. And, you know, I think the inner
Kylie Peppler:
educator in me was like, wait, you can learn a lot from these
Kylie Peppler:
toys, you know, you can learn a lot from all of these things
Kylie Peppler:
that are sitting in your toy cabinet. And so my friends would
Kylie Peppler:
always remember that I'd have this, like, Museum of Toys when
Kylie Peppler:
they came over. And a lot of that I was just really
Kylie Peppler:
interested in creating and making things that led me into
Kylie Peppler:
the arts, and particularly in sculpture. And so my undergrad
Kylie Peppler:
degree is in fine arts. And so how do I think about designing
Kylie Peppler:
the world around us? And how do we think about designing
Kylie Peppler:
educational experience? So a lot of my work was installation
Kylie Peppler:
based, at our performative as a way and, you know, an invitation
Kylie Peppler:
to play and to learn. And so when I was applying to graduate
Kylie Peppler:
school, I was kind of thinking about, how can I take that
Kylie Peppler:
passion around the arts? You know, unlike a lot of my peers,
Kylie Peppler:
I wasn't drawn to like producing art for museums, but really
Kylie Peppler:
these experiences. And so how can I think about an applied
Kylie Peppler:
version of that. And so I sort of brought my interest in
Kylie Peppler:
education and the learning together with the arts. And I
Kylie Peppler:
was at UCLA, studying with Dr James Catterall for folks that
Kylie Peppler:
are in the arts education landscape. And it just really
Kylie Peppler:
fell in love with the work that we were doing. But throughout
Kylie Peppler:
all of that, I kept trying to invent the tools, materials that
Kylie Peppler:
I would have loved to have had at my fingertips, you know. So
Kylie Peppler:
as an educator, you're always looking for that new thing that
Kylie Peppler:
would help you devise the thing you always wanted to create. And
Kylie Peppler:
so now I get to do exactly that.
Christina Lewellen:
That is really cool. What an interesting
Christina Lewellen:
kind of a unique approach to art and being involved in fine arts.
Christina Lewellen:
Okay, so now let's go back to the connected learning lab, tell
Christina Lewellen:
us a little bit about that. The connected learning lab
Kylie Peppler:
is a larger group of about 40 faculty here at the
Kylie Peppler:
University of California Irvine. We're called an organizational
Kylie Peppler:
Research Unit, and so it's like a research institute here on the
Kylie Peppler:
campus, and it's meant to sort of bring cross sector
Kylie Peppler:
collaborations amongst faculty, but also cross sector outside of
Kylie Peppler:
the university together as well. And so we have several strands
Kylie Peppler:
of work. The creativity Labs is one of those 40 labs within
Kylie Peppler:
that. And we start to work. How can we get schools working with
Kylie Peppler:
out of school sectors, with museums, with industry partners,
Kylie Peppler:
with future workforce, with artists, you know, all of those
Kylie Peppler:
things. There's a lot of barriers from the way we've set
Kylie Peppler:
things up traditionally to that type of collaboration. And so a
Kylie Peppler:
while back, the MacArthur Foundation did a $250 million
Kylie Peppler:
investment in this new area of digital media learning, and
Kylie Peppler:
connected learning was both the theory and the practice that
Kylie Peppler:
grew out of that portfolio over time, and many of us that have
Kylie Peppler:
been part of that connected learning research network, it's
Kylie Peppler:
an international network. Have actually relocated here to UCI,
Kylie Peppler:
to really be in residence and to work together towards a sort of
Kylie Peppler:
global mission of change.
Christina Lewellen:
That's really cool. I know Bill has a
Christina Lewellen:
background in art, and he is also a teacher and then later
Christina Lewellen:
became a technology director. And so I can imagine that
Christina Lewellen:
there's some connections there. But can you help draw a line for
Christina Lewellen:
me between work in stem the a of steam, I guess, as some schools
Christina Lewellen:
are approaching it. So in other words, what does art have to do
Christina Lewellen:
with technology?
Kylie Peppler:
It's always been really entwined with technology.
Kylie Peppler:
I think any true inventor is really an artist, in a sense. I
Kylie Peppler:
think about Leonardo da Vinnie. You think about all of these
Kylie Peppler:
folks that have been artists, but see things in a new light.
Kylie Peppler:
And so, you know, almost all of the new technology has presented
Kylie Peppler:
us with sort of an artful engagement of. Of how we
Kylie Peppler:
interact with the world, right? And so, you know, the pieces
Kylie Peppler:
that I think Captivate us the most. I mean, I remember the
Kylie Peppler:
iPhone came out and just being able to use touch on that
Kylie Peppler:
screen, you know, it was just so exciting, and this new way of
Kylie Peppler:
interacting. But I think almost all of our technologies are kind
Kylie Peppler:
of that way, right? They're sort of born of an artist envisioning
Kylie Peppler:
a new way, a new relationship between us and the screen. You
Kylie Peppler:
know, sometimes you see artists playing around instead of having
Kylie Peppler:
the cursor follow your viewpoint, maybe the whole
Kylie Peppler:
screen follows. So there's lots of different ways of rethinking
Kylie Peppler:
our everyday experiences in artful ways. I think, for us, as
Kylie Peppler:
we look at Steam, it's not just an extra. It's not just like the
Kylie Peppler:
cherry on top of why we engage in STEM work. It's actually what
Kylie Peppler:
pushes the deeper engagement in all of the technology, but
Kylie Peppler:
science and engineering and mathematics as well. And I can
Kylie Peppler:
give you a lot of examples of that.
Bill Stites:
I've always appreciated just the creativity
Bill Stites:
aspect of it, when you bring that into your work, having that
Bill Stites:
mindset, that artist mindset, that creative mindset, bringing
Bill Stites:
that into work in technology, I think, helps in the
Kylie Peppler:
arts, but also in sciences, we learn a lot about
Kylie Peppler:
the creative mindset, right? And so like in engineering classes,
Kylie Peppler:
we'll push for these divergent moments of creativity, right?
Kylie Peppler:
Where you're just brainstorming as many possibilities, and, you
Kylie Peppler:
know, in design thinking or these other places, we want to
Kylie Peppler:
withhold judgment, but that's because we're encouraging wide
Kylie Peppler:
creative solutions, and so often, I mean, when you look at
Kylie Peppler:
our creative process, we jump in and we snag the first thing. And
Kylie Peppler:
you can notice this in your everyday you can notice this in
Kylie Peppler:
the classroom, but oftentimes we try to be expedient with our
Kylie Peppler:
time, so it seems like we're going to lead to a better
Kylie Peppler:
solution if we just get started right away. Started right away,
Kylie Peppler:
and kind of ignoring that impulse, letting ourselves kind
Kylie Peppler:
of brainstorm and go through that divergent process is really
Kylie Peppler:
important. And then I think the arts also teaches us to really
Kylie Peppler:
look at and evaluate those things, and not just come in
Kylie Peppler:
with our preconceptions, but really see how the worst idea
Kylie Peppler:
out there could actually be really good. And so this moment
Kylie Peppler:
of like critique or exploration, where you stay with this
Kylie Peppler:
divergence and you explore that this idea could be really good.
Kylie Peppler:
And that's one of the things I learned in my background in the
Kylie Peppler:
arts and in visual arts, we call this critique, right, you know?
Kylie Peppler:
And so this moments of crit at the end of the course is that
Kylie Peppler:
the projects I thought were completely unsuccessful, but the
Kylie Peppler:
more we unpack them and we talked about the possibility
Kylie Peppler:
space, the more I saw, Oh, actually, I just missed that. I
Kylie Peppler:
didn't see how this could become really amazing, because think
Kylie Peppler:
about the culture of that is really great, then we have to
Kylie Peppler:
converge. We've got to pick something and dive into it. We
Kylie Peppler:
can't stay with the million possibilities we need to
Kylie Peppler:
actually start to build so that convergent process can be
Kylie Peppler:
really, really important too.
Hiram Cuevas:
What's interesting here at St Christopher is we
Hiram Cuevas:
have a program that's not called steam or stem. It's actually
Hiram Cuevas:
called build, and it's boys using innovation to learn and
Hiram Cuevas:
design. It's essentially branded that way, because we are an old
Hiram Cuevas:
boy school. And what's been really nice about this
Hiram Cuevas:
particular course, which has a strand that goes across all
Hiram Cuevas:
three of our divisions, the lower middle and the Upper
Hiram Cuevas:
School. Its home is in the arts, and it's designed that way
Hiram Cuevas:
intentionally because we have found that that particular
Hiram Cuevas:
course and that strand allows our boys to experience a lack of
Hiram Cuevas:
fear of failure, because they are trying all these different
Hiram Cuevas:
ways as they go through the design thinking process in
Hiram Cuevas:
particular, and you may fail several times, but it's joyful
Hiram Cuevas:
to see that they're not so much worried about the grade at that
Hiram Cuevas:
point, Because that's not where the emphasis is, and that
Hiram Cuevas:
creative process is so invaluable in other areas that
Hiram Cuevas:
they don't see it until a little bit later, as they mature and
Hiram Cuevas:
they realize how important the arts are.
Kylie Peppler:
Yeah, I see that all the time, even in higher
Kylie Peppler:
education, you know, because we get the students that have just
Kylie Peppler:
been stressed out trying to get the right answer, you know, all
Kylie Peppler:
of the standardized tests and the other portion, and you know,
Kylie Peppler:
the pressures that the kids have right now to get into college
Kylie Peppler:
and all of these things right, the grades and the other
Kylie Peppler:
portions are just so important. But just learning how to fail
Kylie Peppler:
and how to recover, you know, to be that boomerang that kind of
Kylie Peppler:
comes back is so important because we we all will fail, you
Kylie Peppler:
know, and we want to fail quickly, actually, so we can
Kylie Peppler:
stand up and get to the right answer. But the amount of tears
Kylie Peppler:
I even see in my undergraduate courses is just really hard. But
Kylie Peppler:
part of that emotional development is just actually
Kylie Peppler:
it's okay, let's try it again, you know? And part of what we've
Kylie Peppler:
been doing in grading in my courses is just really doing
Kylie Peppler:
competency based education. And so if you get it right the first
Kylie Peppler:
time, great, but if it takes you 100 times, that's great. 100
Kylie Peppler:
times, that's great. And can both get an A right and so
Kylie Peppler:
really allotting those points in a way that pushes towards that
Kylie Peppler:
solution space and extra credit comes from thinking outside the
Kylie Peppler:
box and coming up with something that nobody else has ever come
Kylie Peppler:
up with.
Christina Lewellen:
So ever since you observed the Learn.
Christina Lewellen:
Playing that comes from toys, which is interesting, because
Christina Lewellen:
obviously that is very apparent when kids are little, but maybe
Christina Lewellen:
we get away from that as we get a little older.
Hiram Cuevas:
Who are you kidding? Who are you kidding on
Hiram Cuevas:
that? Oh, are you still
Christina Lewellen:
playing with toys? I love my toys. Okay, I
Christina Lewellen:
got a whole shelf. Okay.
Christina Lewellen:
Hiram is a big fan of you and your work, then here we go. So
Christina Lewellen:
you're blending arts computation and this idea of informal
Christina Lewellen:
learning in your research, and it obviously is an interest of
Christina Lewellen:
yours. But then can you help us understand how that shows up in
Christina Lewellen:
practice?
Kylie Peppler:
You mean how learning shows up in just
Kylie Peppler:
playful learning?
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, I think so. I think it's one thing
Christina Lewellen:
to research it. But then where do we actually see that? And
Christina Lewellen:
where would you like to see more of that? Yeah, so we see it
Kylie Peppler:
all the time, and actually, early childhood
Kylie Peppler:
research is really great, you know? So when you look at kids
Kylie Peppler:
at play shoots the ladders, for example, have a lot better sense
Kylie Peppler:
of number sense and timeline development. Kids that play with
Kylie Peppler:
toy cars, for example, have a better sense of physics because
Kylie Peppler:
they're rolling down, and they have a sense that, you know, the
Kylie Peppler:
heavier weighted car is going to go further down the ramp, and
Kylie Peppler:
kind of all of the aerodynamics that are involved and so forth,
Kylie Peppler:
right? So almost all of our toys teach something, and that's
Kylie Peppler:
where I think, as a learning scientist, I think about
Kylie Peppler:
anything we do teaches us something. Everything we
Kylie Peppler:
interact teaches us something, but it may not be well aligned
Kylie Peppler:
with what we hope the kids will learn. And so there could be a
Kylie Peppler:
lot of distractions out there. There could be things that we
Kylie Peppler:
don't want to see happen. So I want to give you an example of
Kylie Peppler:
like, we were playing with squishy circuits, and we were in
Kylie Peppler:
an early childhood classroom. And so, you know, there were
Kylie Peppler:
some kids that were there, and they would come over to the
Kylie Peppler:
table and they would play with these squishy circuits. And for
Kylie Peppler:
folks that don't know squishy circuits, this is a circuitry,
Kylie Peppler:
you know, so it's basically like a nine volt battery, kind of
Kylie Peppler:
it's all enclosed, so the kids can't hurt themselves regular
Kylie Peppler:
Play Doh, because you can make your Play Doh, or you could find
Kylie Peppler:
it off the shelf, and then there's wires, but there's a
Kylie Peppler:
motor and other kinds of things as well. But you know, most of
Kylie Peppler:
you probably had an experience with a nine volt battery, and
Kylie Peppler:
like, a little like, and like a little light bulb that would
Kylie Peppler:
light up, and then you put your alligator clips in between. But
Kylie Peppler:
instead of having alligator clips, you actually use the salt
Kylie Peppler:
based dough to conduct electricity down to turn on the
Kylie Peppler:
light bulbs of this case, little LEDs. And then you can do all
Kylie Peppler:
sorts of really creative things with this. And you know, it was
Kylie Peppler:
really fun seeing this in early childhood class, because it's
Kylie Peppler:
the kids that come to the table first. So let me set up a system
Kylie Peppler:
kids that are like, Yes, I'll be there, right? And then, you
Kylie Peppler:
know, as we added more colors of dough and other things, we got
Kylie Peppler:
the arts kids that just wanted to squeeze the dough and to make
Kylie Peppler:
different things and play with different things. And then we
Kylie Peppler:
added little figurines, so like from Dora, or other types of
Kylie Peppler:
narratives. And then it was almost everybody came to the
Kylie Peppler:
table, and it was because we added narrative, and then the
Kylie Peppler:
motor became a helicopter for Dora and Boots to escape, right?
Kylie Peppler:
So all of these ways of playing, as we added Dora, they were
Kylie Peppler:
learning about how to construct a narrative and how to tell a
Kylie Peppler:
story, right? As the arts kids were playing with the dough,
Kylie Peppler:
they were learning about color theory and what that meant to
Kylie Peppler:
interchange right. As the kids were playing with circuits, they
Kylie Peppler:
started understanding the big ideas of circuits that actually
Kylie Peppler:
evade college students and adults alike, you know. So if I
Kylie Peppler:
asked you what the big ideas of circuitry were, almost everybody
Kylie Peppler:
would draw a blank, right, unless you're an electrical
Kylie Peppler:
engineer by trade. But these kids, in three to five years
Kylie Peppler:
old, were able to nail it and really give the college students
Kylie Peppler:
a run for their money.
Christina Lewellen:
That's really neat.
Christina Lewellen:
As we're moving into this era. You know, the guys jokingly say
Christina Lewellen:
to me, sometimes, Christina, if we've got to talk about AI one
Christina Lewellen:
more time, because they just live it. They're swimming in
Christina Lewellen:
this pool all day, every day at their schools, as are many of
Christina Lewellen:
our technology leaders. So that you understand Kylie, I think
Christina Lewellen:
part of where our technology leaders are struggling is that
Christina Lewellen:
they're not just coming to the table being asked to define AI
Christina Lewellen:
from a safety and technological standpoint, but a lot of times,
Christina Lewellen:
whether they have the experience and background or not, our tech
Christina Lewellen:
directors are also being asked to guide some pedagogy decisions
Christina Lewellen:
and some academic integrity decisions and things like that.
Christina Lewellen:
And so from your vantage point in the work that you do, can you
Christina Lewellen:
tell me about what you're observing when it comes to this
Christina Lewellen:
advanced acceleration of AI in the classroom and for teachers,
Christina Lewellen:
but in particular for the classroom,
Kylie Peppler:
yeah, it's tricky, and I think we're all in
Kylie Peppler:
this together in terms of that landscape is quickly changing.
Kylie Peppler:
So there's not a stagnancy where we can say AI is plateaued. And
Kylie Peppler:
this is what you can expect. You know, take creative music
Kylie Peppler:
writing software. You know, I'm married to composer, and
Kylie Peppler:
probably a month ago, we would have said, AI is not very good
Kylie Peppler:
at composing music, you know. Can kind of pick out different
Kylie Peppler:
melodies and put things together and so forth. And then a new
Kylie Peppler:
platform was released, and it was really frighteningly good
Kylie Peppler:
songs with, like, really terrible prompt programming can,
Kylie Peppler:
like, you know, we just put in just the worst prompt and see
Kylie Peppler:
what kind of music could actually come out of. Something
Kylie Peppler:
about, you know, a dog on the beach and Afro beats, you know,
Kylie Peppler:
for example, and it was a completely coherent song that
Kylie Peppler:
has even a catchy refrain. So this is going to be a challenge
Kylie Peppler:
for all of us, right? So my philosophy is really, instead of
Kylie Peppler:
hiding from it, right? Is really trying to embrace it as an
Kylie Peppler:
educator and trying to make it part of the creative process, so
Kylie Peppler:
exploring those tools. So for the first time this year, I do a
Kylie Peppler:
ubiquitous computing course, and so the students create about 40
Kylie Peppler:
different IoT devices, and they have to design their own
Kylie Peppler:
Internet of Things device at the end. But this year, we actually
Kylie Peppler:
worked with AI to produce different things, or to imagine
Kylie Peppler:
or envision different projects, the same with some of the other
Kylie Peppler:
courses on Digital Media and Learning with kids, right? And
Kylie Peppler:
so just using it as an opportunity to explore the
Kylie Peppler:
platform. What can you create with this music software? What
Kylie Peppler:
can you create with the other platforms? And again, ATLIS, you
Kylie Peppler:
guys have been doing a great job of just encouraging that. And so
Kylie Peppler:
I encourage all of your educators to say yes to this,
Kylie Peppler:
because it can be really scary, but this is like a really safe
Kylie Peppler:
community to just try one of the challenges out, right that come
Kylie Peppler:
across your inbox, and even if you hate it. You know, my son is
Kylie Peppler:
a writer, and he's in theater, he just is rejecting AI, but to
Kylie Peppler:
kind of know what it does and when you have a deep knowledge
Kylie Peppler:
of your craft, right? And this is where, as educators, you're
Kylie Peppler:
teaching students a very deep knowledge of the craft. It
Kylie Peppler:
becomes another tool that they're going to be able to use
Kylie Peppler:
and to refine. But my son, being a good writer, he can tell when
Kylie Peppler:
a text is created with AI, right? Like, he could just tell
Kylie Peppler:
that that's not the voice. Like, even if I create something in AI
Kylie Peppler:
and I send it to him like a template for something or
Kylie Peppler:
something else, he'll like you created that AI, and he's always
Kylie Peppler:
right. He can just see right through it. So as you're working
Kylie Peppler:
with students, know that you're preparing them to enter into
Kylie Peppler:
this world and to make those decisions. But I think it's
Kylie Peppler:
important to stay present to the extent that you know what it's
Kylie Peppler:
capable of and you're able to shepherd the kids through this
Kylie Peppler:
because it is yet another large stressor for them in that high
Kylie Peppler:
school experience, especially
Bill Stites:
hearing you talk about this, jumping in, giving
Bill Stites:
the shot, playing with it, just experimenting with it. We're in
Bill Stites:
a position where we're fortunate enough to be able to do that.
Bill Stites:
There's not a lot of risk. I'm not standing in front of a
Bill Stites:
classroom of students on a day to day basis doing this. And I
Bill Stites:
think about those teachers. My wife is a teacher. Hiram's wife
Bill Stites:
is a teacher. My wife teaches Spanish, and she is a very good
Bill Stites:
Spanish teacher, and she knows her content, and she spent years
Bill Stites:
studying that content to be confident enough to go in there.
Bill Stites:
How do you talk to educators about finding the time, finding
Bill Stites:
the wellness, finding the courage to take on AI? Because,
Bill Stites:
you know, I think about the things I'm trying to be mindful
Bill Stites:
of, and trying to figure out here in terms of, like, what are
Bill Stites:
our guidelines for use? What are we allowing? What are we not
Bill Stites:
allowing? Because teachers are looking for some guardrails
Bill Stites:
because they don't have that confidence to go into it in an
Bill Stites:
open ended sense. So how do you talk to those that you're
Bill Stites:
working with, those educators that you get a chance to speak
Bill Stites:
to? How are you talking about this with them and just opening
Bill Stites:
themselves up to it? And
Kylie Peppler:
it's not just AI, right? It's almost any new
Kylie Peppler:
technology we've seen the same. You know, it was not too long
Kylie Peppler:
ago we were talking about coding for all, or we're talking about
Kylie Peppler:
engineering practices. I think anything that we haven't
Kylie Peppler:
experienced as a learner can be really, really difficult. So one
Kylie Peppler:
of the things that I like to do, I try to target teachers that
Kylie Peppler:
during like professional development, just to create a
Kylie Peppler:
safe space and so forth, so that we're exploring. Sometimes I
Kylie Peppler:
don't even have enough time to explore something, so I assign
Kylie Peppler:
it as an assignment to my students, and then we sit and
Kylie Peppler:
debrief it and what happened. So for example, like, why not have
Kylie Peppler:
the students work on, like, an AI policy, right? Like they can
Kylie Peppler:
look at policies that exist, policies that they'd like to see
Kylie Peppler:
what should happen. There could be students exploring AI for
Kylie Peppler:
music and composition, or AI for writing stories or for creating
Kylie Peppler:
comic strips or things like that. And so part of the safety
Kylie Peppler:
is setting it up. Like, I just make it really clear what I know
Kylie Peppler:
and what I don't know. As an educator, like, I don't know
Kylie Peppler:
anything about this. I haven't even tried these platforms,
Kylie Peppler:
guys, but I think it's really important we do this and why,
Kylie Peppler:
and just sending them out there and then kind of coming back
Kylie Peppler:
with this result. Or, if you're in charge of the technology
Kylie Peppler:
training at the school, you know, kind of setting that up,
Kylie Peppler:
but with all adults, you know, if you're really worried about
Kylie Peppler:
what the kids might come up with on some of these platforms, you
Kylie Peppler:
know, sitting in the room and just kind of having the grace
Kylie Peppler:
that we're just going to treat ourselves like a child, right,
Kylie Peppler:
that we're just going to see and sometimes, if you make it the
Kylie Peppler:
worst thing right, like, who can come up with the worst plot, or
Kylie Peppler:
who can come up with the worst possible, you know, rather than
Kylie Peppler:
always the best, right, we always kind of have this
Kylie Peppler:
pressure to come up with something good. Small groups can
Kylie Peppler:
also be helpful. So I think there's a lot of ways to take.
Kylie Peppler:
Take that pressure. I think the solution depends on your group.
Kylie Peppler:
You know, if you've got a very social group, the collaboration
Kylie Peppler:
can be really good. I've done like aI script writing in small
Kylie Peppler:
groups, you know, just adults. And these were just adults from
Kylie Peppler:
the community that had no idea what AI was and were really
Kylie Peppler:
scared. They barely use Google search, you know. But they were
Kylie Peppler:
interested. They wanted to know what this thing was about. And
Kylie Peppler:
then, kind of, the safety of having a group of three or four
Kylie Peppler:
or five people working together towards an end could be really
Kylie Peppler:
useful. You know, the folks that are just limited on time finding
Kylie Peppler:
a block where you're going to have them anyway to explore,
Kylie Peppler:
it'll depend. There's never one size solution for all. But I
Kylie Peppler:
think, think about what's the chief barrier and what would be
Kylie Peppler:
the chief motivator, and going after those two things,
Hiram Cuevas:
I'm so glad you brought up creating the worst
Hiram Cuevas:
possible whatever it happens to be. It reminds me of an activity
Hiram Cuevas:
we did called the lousy PowerPoint and talk about
Hiram Cuevas:
behavior modification. After watching 10 lousy PowerPoint
Hiram Cuevas:
presentations, our boys knew exactly what to avoid, with all
Hiram Cuevas:
sorts of things bouncing around all over the place, contrasting
Hiram Cuevas:
colors and whatnot that were inappropriate, etc. But in terms
Hiram Cuevas:
of many of these creative approaches and Creative
Hiram Cuevas:
Technologies, can you talk a little bit more about how this
Hiram Cuevas:
has the capacity to foster youth, Agency for our students,
Kylie Peppler:
Agency for me, always comes when somebody has
Kylie Peppler:
an opportunity to create something, you know, back in the
Kylie Peppler: