Driving Deeper Learning with Ray Shay
Join us as Ray Shay, Director of Technology at Brooklyn Friends School, shares his unique journey from webmaster to overseeing auxiliary programs. Discover his insights on AI's impact on independent schools, the crucial role of data systems, and why human connection and critical thinking are more vital than ever in a tech-driven world.
- La Salle College High School Tech Experiential Learning
- Princeton Academy of the Sacred Heart - student-led creation of the local chapter of the eNable network and 3 years of “Build-a-Thons”: Video | Article
- Student-led PPE project during pandemic: Article
- Brooklyn Friends School
- Team Engagement Tools: StandOut (now powered by ADP) | 15Five
- Ray’s LinkedIn profile
- Bill’s photo of trip home from ATLIS Annual Conference
- Vendor management platform, 9ine
- ‘We Have to Really Rethink the Purpose of Education’, podcast episode from The Ezra Klein Show - education policy expert Rebecca Winthrop explores the big questions emerging for educators and parents
- The Disengaged Teen: Helping Kids Learn Better, Feel Better, and Live Better, book by Jenny Anderson and Rebecca Winthrop
- In Search of Deeper Learning: The Quest to Remake the American High School, book by Jal Mehta and Sarah Fine
Transcript
Peter Frank:
Ed, welcome to Talking technology with Atlas,
Peter Frank:
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
Peter Frank:
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Peter Frank:
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
Peter Frank:
special guests from the Independent School community,
Peter Frank:
and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Peter Frank:
And now please welcome your host. Kristina llewellen,
Christina Lewellen:
hello everyone, and welcome back to
Christina Lewellen:
talking technology with Atlas. I'm Kristina Lewellen, the
Christina Lewellen:
President and CEO of the Association of Technology
Christina Lewellen:
Leaders in Independent Schools.
Bill Stites:
And I am Bill Stites, the Director of
Bill Stites:
Technology at Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New
Bill Stites:
Jersey,
Hiram Cuevas:
and I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of
Hiram Cuevas:
Information Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher
Hiram Cuevas:
school in Richmond, Virginia.
Christina Lewellen:
Hello, gentlemen. It is so good to see
Christina Lewellen:
you guys. It's been a while. This is our first gathering and
Christina Lewellen:
our first recording after the Atlas conference. And I have to
Christina Lewellen:
tell you, I think that it's been not quite a month. It's been
Christina Lewellen:
several weeks since the conference, and I have only
Christina Lewellen:
slept in my own bed a couple of nights. I have been on the road
Christina Lewellen:
since the Atlas conference. So I don't know if I'm still just
Christina Lewellen:
riding the Atlas high or what it is, but I'm still smiling. How
Christina Lewellen:
are you guys doing? Have you recovered?
Bill Stites:
Recovered? Maybe not. I was explaining the
Bill Stites:
misadventure we had coming home, which had us leaving nine hours
Bill Stites:
delayed, and then, you know, reroute it from Newark to
Bill Stites:
Dulles, and then driving from Dulles to Newark and blowing out
Bill Stites:
tires and vans and having tons of people, so that literally
Bill Stites:
killed me. For an entire weekend, I was like, done,
Bill Stites:
caught a cold, was in bed over the weekend after that, and then
Bill Stites:
got right back into school. And school has been running full
Bill Stites:
bore because it is May, and it feels like every minute of May
Bill Stites:
is ticking by faster and faster. So yeah, definitely not getting
Bill Stites:
any rest since I got back, definitely busy and looking
Bill Stites:
forward to things, but still feeling rejuvenated from the
Bill Stites:
conversations that we had and everything that went on at the
Bill Stites:
conference. I say it time and time again, it's one of those
Bill Stites:
must attend things for me each and every year, and I'm still
Bill Stites:
riding the high from that, regardless of how tired I am
Bill Stites:
from it as well. I'm
Christina Lewellen:
so sorry that you had travel woes. I know
Christina Lewellen:
that some people did, and there was a lot of nonsense happening
Christina Lewellen:
with in particular air traffic stuff. So I'm so sorry to hear
Christina Lewellen:
you had that, and equally sorry that you're now slogging through
Christina Lewellen:
the 100 days of May. I know that's always a really busy
Christina Lewellen:
time. How about you? Hiram, are you crazy busy right now?
Hiram Cuevas:
Yeah, we're crazy busy as well. Fortunately,
Hiram Cuevas:
though my travels, because I didn't have to go up to Newark,
Hiram Cuevas:
New Jersey, we were on time and managed to get home fairly
Hiram Cuevas:
easily. But I tell you the amount of energy that was put
Hiram Cuevas:
forth during the 10 year anniversary of the Atlas
Hiram Cuevas:
conference. I think I'm still tired from it, along with the
Hiram Cuevas:
100 days of May, because there was so much activity and so many
Hiram Cuevas:
conversations, and as a result, more phone calls to people from
Hiram Cuevas:
the conference and more emails, etc, that I feel like I'm a bit
Hiram Cuevas:
on a treadmill, but I have APS winding down, so I'm glad for
Hiram Cuevas:
that. And as soon as this is over, I'm driving to Blacksburg
Hiram Cuevas:
to pick up my baby girl, to bring her home. Year one is
Hiram Cuevas:
done. Lots going on.
Christina Lewellen:
Congratulations. We
Bill Stites:
have graduation this weekend. Tomorrow, we leave
Bill Stites:
for Gettysburg because Sean is graduating from Gettysburg.
Bill Stites:
Congratulations,
Hiram Cuevas:
Sean from the pod.
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah. And I just did that last weekend
Christina Lewellen:
myself. That's one of the many, many trips that I had, is that I
Christina Lewellen:
watched my daughter Morgan graduate from the University of
Christina Lewellen:
Mary Washington, and that was super cool. She's our first
Christina Lewellen:
college graduate among the four. So it's been crazy and fun. I
Christina Lewellen:
also, Bill almost got hung up in that New Jersey nonsense, but I
Christina Lewellen:
flew to Dallas and drove to my next event, which was in
Christina Lewellen:
Syracuse, New York. So it's been crazy, but I'm really glad to
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see you guys, and I'm sure we will talk a bit about the annual
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conference, because we are being joined today by someone who,
Christina Lewellen:
shockingly, was a first time attendee to the Atlas
Christina Lewellen:
conference. Because Mr. Ray Shea, I feel like you've been
Christina Lewellen:
around forever, sir. I can't believe you've never been to an
Christina Lewellen:
atlas conference. How did we let that happen? I
Ray Shay:
know it never worked in the schedule, but this year,
Ray Shay:
even with some scheduling mishaps and some Newark
Ray Shay:
craziness, I'm so glad it happened that I'm definitely
Ray Shay:
still on the high and yearning for more. I can't wait till next
Ray Shay:
year. It was such a great first year experience, and Bill's been
Ray Shay:
telling me all 10 years that I needed to be there. There, and
Ray Shay:
I'm so glad to have finally made it and meet Hiram in person and
Ray Shay:
so many other awesome members of the Atlas community.
Christina Lewellen:
Well, Ray, you were in your first year at
Christina Lewellen:
Brooklyn Friends School. You're the director of technology
Christina Lewellen:
there, and your role is expanding here in a couple of
Christina Lewellen:
months, where you're also going to take on auxiliary programs.
Christina Lewellen:
So why don't you take a moment and introduce yourself to our
Christina Lewellen:
listeners, sure.
Ray Shay:
So this is my 21st year in independent school
Ray Shay:
education. Prior to being the Director of Technology at
Ray Shay:
Brooklyn friends, I was the director of technology at
Ray Shay:
Princeton Academy, the Sacred Heart for the last eight years,
Ray Shay:
where I wore a number of additional hats as well,
Ray Shay:
Director of summer programs for a time, Interim Director of the
Ray Shay:
business office and assistant head of school for operations
Ray Shay:
and strategy. And like I often say, my favorite role, head
Ray Shay:
coach of the middle school speech and debate team. And
Ray Shay:
prior to being at Princeton Academy for 12 years, I was at
Ray Shay:
my alma mater, LaSalle college high school in Philadelphia. Go
Ray Shay:
birds, Bill Stites Gilbert there, I was director of web
Ray Shay:
technology, and also was the head coach of the high school
Ray Shay:
speech and debate team, and worked with a number of student
Ray Shay:
tech groups and excited in this first year. It's been fantastic,
Ray Shay:
and I'm looking forward to the extension of the role next year.
Christina Lewellen:
You've spent 21 years in independent schools,
Christina Lewellen:
and you've covered a lot of ground with the roles, but what
Christina Lewellen:
was your entree to this esteemed space?
Ray Shay:
Like so many other members of the plot, I love
Ray Shay:
hearing everyone's origin stories, but I never intended to
Ray Shay:
be a school tech director. I started designing websites in
Ray Shay:
middle school. My dad was actually a network consultant
Ray Shay:
for a lot of small businesses, and so the computers at home
Ray Shay:
were really locked down, like I wasn't the typical model of the
Ray Shay:
kids toying around and figuring it out for their parents, like
Ray Shay:
my dad had everything locked down, but he did not have a
Ray Shay:
design eye, and when his clients started to ask me for websites,
Ray Shay:
he had no interest in it, so I taught myself HTML. Started
Ray Shay:
working in Claris Homepage, never Microsoft front page, and
Ray Shay:
eventually working my way into Adobe Photoshop, Adobe
Ray Shay:
Dreamweaver, and went to college for that as a digital arts
Ray Shay:
major. Actually double major with communications, and I
Ray Shay:
minored in marketing. And I really thought my career was
Ray Shay:
going to be in Marcom and joined my alma mater, came back, what
Ray Shay:
really had to justify my role as the new webmaster? They couldn't
Ray Shay:
believe that they were hiring for a webmaster. Many people
Ray Shay:
didn't our principal at the time, he was very visionary, and
Ray Shay:
he said, No, no, we're definitely going to need this.
Ray Shay:
This is really important, and it was great. I taught a number of
Ray Shay:
different preps on top of redesigning the website, but in
Ray Shay:
that first year, there were some board members that were in the
Ray Shay:
Marcom space and really uplifted the role and elevated it to a
Ray Shay:
director of web technology, included it in part of our new
Ray Shay:
advancement model at that time, where we were pulling together
Ray Shay:
development and Mark com, and that's where I started. That
Ray Shay:
like straddling multiple offices where I was, I was in tech, but
Ray Shay:
I was coming to the advancement meeting. And, you know, over
Ray Shay:
those next 12 years, sometimes my direct report was in
Ray Shay:
advancement, sometimes my direct report was in it, but I always
Ray Shay:
had my feet in both parts of the school there. And
Christina Lewellen:
so I have to jump right to the thing that my
Christina Lewellen:
brain is most interested in. It sounds like you were kind of
Christina Lewellen:
there at the beginning of everybody needing the website,
Christina Lewellen:
everybody at least caring about the design of a website. And now
Christina Lewellen:
here we are again, at this moment of kind of technological
Christina Lewellen:
change. And I often equate what's going on in AI in
Christina Lewellen:
education to the same kind of wrestling that we were doing
Christina Lewellen:
with internet in education. How do you feel about that? What are
Christina Lewellen:
your options? Observations?
Ray Shay:
Yeah, I think it's a strong comparison, right?
Ray Shay:
Because the internet was so impactful, and yet, how much
Ray Shay:
have we really changed education? You know, have we
Ray Shay:
just taken things and put them online? We had the advent of the
Ray Shay:
Internet, we had a pandemic where we really had to rely on
Ray Shay:
the internet to stay connected, and this was supposed to be the
Ray Shay:
thing that made us shake up education, but we really kind of
Ray Shay:
returned back to doing things the way we have, and maybe
Ray Shay:
hanging onto a tool here or there, or maybe expanding some
Ray Shay:
of our online offerings, but the full model of education hasn't
Ray Shay:
really changed, and now you have people talking about artificial
Ray Shay:
intelligence, specifically generative AI, and what impact
Ray Shay:
that's going to have, not just on schools, but on the workplace
Ray Shay:
and on our entire fabric of society. And. But I think
Ray Shay:
there's camps that are, you know, saying this is going to
Ray Shay:
change everything, and education, the whole model, is
Ray Shay:
going to be turned on its head. And then you have others who, I
Ray Shay:
think are sitting back and saying, you know, I don't know
Ray Shay:
about this, you know, we still need teachers. We still need
Ray Shay:
this math lesson and this unit, and I think it's somewhere,
Ray Shay:
probably in the middle that it is going to change things. And I
Ray Shay:
think education needs to look past just the ed tech tools that
Ray Shay:
are being sold to us, and just look at how can we change what
Ray Shay:
we fundamentally know about students and what we know isn't
Ray Shay:
working in our schools? And can we take this opportunity to
Ray Shay:
actually engage students better. And I think there's a concern
Ray Shay:
that generative AI will reduce engagement, right and reduce a
Ray Shay:
lot of critical thinking and cognitive functions. But if we
Ray Shay:
plan things correctly, if we really are collaborative, the
Ray Shay:
way I love our IT community always is, I think there's a
Ray Shay:
path where this is beneficial and transformative for not just
Ray Shay:
schooling, but the whole idea of education and being lifelong
Ray Shay:
learners. So I'm hopeful. I'm always optimistic, but I'm
Ray Shay:
hopeful that maybe this time around, things are gonna shift
Ray Shay:
and change. And
Christina Lewellen:
I mean, all three of you guys were at the
Christina Lewellen:
conference, and I'm sure you're in those rooms more so than I
Christina Lewellen:
am, right because I am running in a million directions. What
Christina Lewellen:
was the vibe of AI at Atlas, annual conference? Where do you
Christina Lewellen:
think we are in this journey? Ray is outlining, you know,
Christina Lewellen:
where it could go. Where are we right now? Just listening to
Christina Lewellen:
your peers and your observations in terms of what the speakers
Christina Lewellen:
were saying. What are your thoughts about AI coming off of
Christina Lewellen:
the conference? Specifically,
Hiram Cuevas:
it's interesting because the year before, it was
Hiram Cuevas:
really the first iteration of AI conversations for our community,
Hiram Cuevas:
and this year, it's interesting watching that needle move
Hiram Cuevas:
substantially in terms of the overall offerings at the
Hiram Cuevas:
conference compared to last year. It seemed like everybody
Hiram Cuevas:
was incorporating AI into their work in some capacity. I mean,
Hiram Cuevas:
even in the tracks that I spent a lot of time in with CIRIS,
Hiram Cuevas:
they were talking about leveraging ai blackbauds track
Hiram Cuevas:
was talking about leveraging AI Toddle was talking about how
Hiram Cuevas:
it's involved with AI and their learning management systems. I
Hiram Cuevas:
mean, it is certainly becoming omnipresent. And I think to
Hiram Cuevas:
Ray's point, we really need to be mindful of how we're using
Hiram Cuevas:
it, and develop the guardrails so that the pedagogy that's
Hiram Cuevas:
developed for our teachers can be the most fruitful for our
Hiram Cuevas:
students, because we want them to develop good habits. We
Hiram Cuevas:
certainly do not want them to develop poor habits, and it's
Hiram Cuevas:
going to be really easy to develop poor habits if you just
Hiram Cuevas:
look at how our students are responding to cell phone use and
Hiram Cuevas:
smartphone use. So this is an opportunity that can't be
Hiram Cuevas:
missed. And I certainly think that if our schools are not
Hiram Cuevas:
making an effort to embrace AI in the curriculum, they're doing
Hiram Cuevas:
their students a disservice
Bill Stites:
to hiram's point. I mean, I think you couldn't
Bill Stites:
escape AI at the conference. I mean, I think it was like in
Bill Stites:
every if it wasn't in the session title, it was definitely
Bill Stites:
in the conversations that were ongoing in those sessions. And
Bill Stites:
it's interesting. I mean, I think for as much as we're
Bill Stites:
talking about the possibilities of what we can do with it, I
Bill Stites:
think we're still also talking about the questions that come up
Bill Stites:
with it, and I think we're still walking that line. I mean, I
Bill Stites:
think back, it was now two years ago that we were out in Grand
Bill Stites:
Rapids, and we were sitting in one of the pre con workshops,
Bill Stites:
and what we were talking about and discussing there, and you
Bill Stites:
can definitely see the line arcing up, you know, in terms of
Bill Stites:
how we're doing these things. But I still think that there is
Bill Stites:
this questioning nature about how we're using it, how secure
Bill Stites:
it is. I mean, I think those things are still definitely
Bill Stites:
there, but I think it's opening up a lot more. Hiram, you
Bill Stites:
mentioned the pieces in the Cirrus track, and I think that's
Bill Stites:
a really interesting place that you and I are spending a good
Bill Stites:
deal of time. My question, actually, for you with this is
Bill Stites:
having spent time, not only on the educational side of things,
Bill Stites:
and this is one of the things, I mean, I would really love to dig
Bill Stites:
in deeply with you, because I'm curious about your experiences.
Bill Stites:
But when you were spending time working in the business office,
Bill Stites:
you've got a very interesting perspective there, and what you
Bill Stites:
talked about in terms of the way in which you worked with
Bill Stites:
advancement in those other areas. Where do you see those
Bill Stites:
conversations going in the operational areas of school
Bill Stites:
around AI, given your experiences that you've had in
Bill Stites:
both of those worlds?
Ray Shay:
Yeah, before I jump into that, I just want to add on
Ray Shay:
to the. Both of you, I agree, feels omnipresent in not just
Ray Shay:
the Atlas conference, but every TV offering that's out there.
Ray Shay:
And I think in addition to those practical questions that you're
Ray Shay:
bringing up, Bill I valued being at a quicker school this year
Ray Shay:
and the questioning and querying of environmental impact and
Ray Shay:
resource allocation and and fair labor and copyright, there's a
Ray Shay:
lot of still existential questions we need to grapple
Ray Shay:
with. And as educators, we owe it to our students to kind of
Ray Shay:
model the type of critical thinking and questioning that we
Ray Shay:
want them to do when they're faced with problems or
Ray Shay:
opportunities and then jumping back into the practical, yeah,
Ray Shay:
Bill, I think there's so much potential in streamlining
Ray Shay:
operations and helping with these synergies between offices.
Ray Shay:
So when I was interim director of the business office, a lot of
Ray Shay:
my aha moments were around like how tech has felt about capital
Ray Shay:
expenditures and how the finance office really needs to think
Ray Shay:
about capital expenditures and depreciation tables and whatnot.
Ray Shay:
And in talking with other tech directors, some people have that
Ray Shay:
good dialog with their finance office, but I think it's a space
Ray Shay:
that needs more of that I also saw into accounting and how the
Ray Shay:
way that our accounting systems are set up, I think our business
Ray Shay:
offices could use some good jam sessions with their tech
Ray Shay:
directors to really make sure that they're set up in a way
Ray Shay:
that it's providing more visibility and serving the
Ray Shay:
institution. And I saw a lot of ways that I think I grew an
Ray Shay:
appreciation for accounting that I absolutely did not have when I
Ray Shay:
took accounting 101, in college and living through two audits,
Ray Shay:
seeing just how we can streamline those processes, I
Ray Shay:
moved us to two audits that were completely virtual. The audit
Ray Shay:
team never stepped foot on campus, and having to do that
Ray Shay:
besides just the ways that we would go paperless, it opened up
Ray Shay:
for a lot of things where my mind is now turning and thinking
Ray Shay:
about like, wow, with AI, how much can we help this process
Ray Shay:
and gain insights earlier in the year, and compile things earlier
Ray Shay:
in the year so that the audit doesn't feel like such a lift
Ray Shay:
for the finance offices at that one time of year. I also think
Ray Shay:
long range planning security, there were so many synergies
Ray Shay:
where tech directors are thinking about these topics and
Ray Shay:
finance officers are thinking about those topics, whether it's
Ray Shay:
from the insurance perspective or the purchasing perspective
Ray Shay:
and Facilities Planning, but there's a lot of great
Ray Shay:
opportunity for deep partnership there between the business
Ray Shay:
office and tech office. And I think no matter what office you
Ray Shay:
look at, like I said before, I had my foot in the advancement
Ray Shay:
office for a long time, auxiliary programs, I think
Ray Shay:
there's always ways where the tech directors can bring a
Ray Shay:
certain perspective, a certain energy, a certain problem
Ray Shay:
solving and critical thinking to problems, issues and
Ray Shay:
opportunities, like across the school landscape,
Bill Stites:
right in those areas, where do you think we
Bill Stites:
need to have conversations with them around data security and
Bill Stites:
like, What are they putting in there? Because most of our
Bill Stites:
conversations are around, what student information are you
Bill Stites:
putting in there? I mean, when you start talking about
Bill Stites:
advancement, when you start talking about fundraising, when
Bill Stites:
you start talking about the audit, when you start talking
Bill Stites:
about all these pieces, that's a lot of financial information
Bill Stites:
that is going in there. There's a lot of dollar signs associated
Bill Stites:
with those things. How do you see having the conversations
Bill Stites:
with them about using AI in these areas and even what tools
Bill Stites:
they're choosing to use, not understanding what's even
Bill Stites:
available in those areas? Personally,
Ray Shay:
you know, Bill, I've heard you talk a lot about the
Ray Shay:
vetting process of software, and I think it is more important
Ray Shay:
than ever that we have well established systems in our
Ray Shay:
schools for vetting software and programs and even taking a look
Ray Shay:
back at the ones that we're already using that are now
Ray Shay:
flavoring in AI components. I certainly don't think I have all
Ray Shay:
the answers, but I think I have been trying to really gain an
Ray Shay:
understanding of, okay, how are you using that? And, okay, hey,
Ray Shay:
I know you're using this software platform. Let me look
Ray Shay:
into these new features that are coming into it. You know, even
Ray Shay:
zoom. We had a nice conversation at the leadership level about,
Ray Shay:
hey, when you're recording your zoom meetings, keep these things
Ray Shay:
in mind, right? Is it automatically sending the
Ray Shay:
transcript, the transcript, and these AI generated transcripts,
Ray Shay:
incredible, especially for helping people process
Ray Shay:
information differently or have any type of disability that the
Ray Shay:
Zoom can assist with. But I've heard so many situations of
Ray Shay:
like, oh, we held this inner. You on Zoom, and we stuck around
Ray Shay:
to talk about it afterwards, and we didn't realize that the
Ray Shay:
transcript went out to everybody who was a part of it, and now
Ray Shay:
the transcript went to the interviewee, and it's like, Wow,
Ray Shay:
I love sharing those stories, because I don't want that to be
Ray Shay:
my school that happened that. And I think Bill to the crux of
Ray Shay:
your question, like the data security, looking at and really
Ray Shay:
reframing ourselves in the generative AI into like small
Ray Shay:
language models, and not just grabbing for the large language
Ray Shay:
models that everybody knows, but looking at what small language
Ray Shay:
model can I utilize and feel better that my data is saying
Ray Shay:
within that area, and what kind of guarantees is that company
Ray Shay:
giving me, and even from the guarantees that companies are
Ray Shay:
giving us, I'm also just not always confident that it's not
Ray Shay:
going to someday end up in a leak that, yeah, they guaranteed
Ray Shay:
us that they're keeping it secure, but What are the ways
Ray Shay:
that their system could get compromised, and that's really
Ray Shay:
hard, I think, to dig down into bill, and I've looked up to you
Ray Shay:
a lot over the years of asking those hard questions of vendors.
Ray Shay:
So
Hiram Cuevas:
Ray, you bring up a great point, Bill and I both
Hiram Cuevas:
use nine to help with that vetting process. I actually
Hiram Cuevas:
asked nine to do a review of zoom for us, because I was most
Hiram Cuevas:
interested in the use of the AI companion, and it is a
Hiram Cuevas:
tremendous tool that can be used for a variety of different
Hiram Cuevas:
reasons, and it satisfied NAIS vetting process. But what was
Hiram Cuevas:
interesting, they said, here's our recommendation, and this is
Hiram Cuevas:
to pass your own sniff test as a school, because each of us may
Hiram Cuevas:
have a different threshold for risk in terms of our schools,
Hiram Cuevas:
they recommend discussing before you use it emphasizing PII.
Hiram Cuevas:
Watch what you're saying in these meetings if you're talking
Hiram Cuevas:
about students. You never talk about student by name in there,
Hiram Cuevas:
and you actually get accustomed to bringing up these extra
Hiram Cuevas:
safeguards and guardrails prior to initiating the AI companion.
Hiram Cuevas:
And it has been a godsend for many of our subcommittee board
Hiram Cuevas:
meetings, because you can actually be attentive, as
Hiram Cuevas:
opposed to trying to scribble down notes. And then you go
Hiram Cuevas:
back, and you can refresh yourself with what the
Hiram Cuevas:
conversation was. But then you remind them, please pay specific
Hiram Cuevas:
attention to all of those hallucinations going to occur in
Hiram Cuevas:
these transcripts. And I'm convinced zoom has a sense of
Hiram Cuevas:
humor.
Ray Shay:
And Hiram, I love that the answer from nine, nine
Ray Shay:
included something that's so human, right, that interaction
Ray Shay:
of conversation, I think everything that we were talking
Ray Shay:
about before, with the synergy between departments tech can
Ray Shay:
solve a lot, but conversation is so important. And I know I'm
Ray Shay:
probably biased in wearing my speech and debate at here, but I
Ray Shay:
really do think that it's going to become even more important in
Ray Shay:
the AI age that those interpersonal connections, those
Ray Shay:
conversations before using a tool, those conversations and
Ray Shay:
connections with leaders at other schools that are trying to
Ray Shay:
solve the same problems that these human interactions are
Ray Shay:
going to become even more important, and that those are
Ray Shay:
really skills that we're going to need to continue to elevate
Ray Shay:
in the education system, kind of going way back to what Christina
Ray Shay:
was asking earlier, like, I think we need to double down,
Ray Shay:
and our emphasis needs to be more on Okay, the five paragraph
Ray Shay:
essay was great, but If that's not a thing anymore, can you get
Ray Shay:
up and defend this? Do you understand this to the point
Ray Shay:
where you can debate it, where you can withstand questioning
Ray Shay:
about it? And I think that's always been where deeper
Ray Shay:
learning was, and maybe this is going to push us to expanding
Ray Shay:
that for more students to get that deeper level of engagement
Ray Shay:
with material when they don't have to do that kind of surface
Ray Shay:
level of just reading, processing and creating an
Ray Shay:
output. Now that we're using the computer a little bit more for
Ray Shay:
that input and output, what are the human elements that we can
Ray Shay:
add on to that that show me deeply, actually understand this
Ray Shay:
topic and can speak to it right?
Christina Lewellen:
Seems like you have a really strong
Christina Lewellen:
interest in this student engagement and driving things a
Christina Lewellen:
little deeper. And in particular, you've shared with
Christina Lewellen:
us that you get excited about the idea of the elements of
Christina Lewellen:
learning that happen on the edges of school, things like
Christina Lewellen:
after school programs, summer programs, especially for those
Christina Lewellen:
students who are interested in pushing the boundaries of
Christina Lewellen:
technology. So tell us a little bit about that and where that
Christina Lewellen:
passion comes from. And I know you've been out and active on
Christina Lewellen:
this front so share with us a little bit about that.
Ray Shay:
Yeah, so I've never been a traditional classroom.
Ray Shay:
Teacher. So I know bills come from that background, and I know
Ray Shay:
plenty of tech directors have but I always was teaching
Ray Shay:
electives. I always was working in after school student
Ray Shay:
programs. I always was working in summer programs. Always these
Ray Shay:
things on the periphery of school. And a few years back, I
Ray Shay:
did an action research project with the International Boys
Ray Shay:
School Coalition on how to get deeper engagement, how to
Ray Shay:
elevate student voice and choice. And I ended up talking
Ray Shay:
about these lessons from the periphery, and how our schools
Ray Shay:
could really learn from the clubs and activities or the
Ray Shay:
elective classes, the drama, The Tech student groups, and how
Ray Shay:
there was such deep learning happening there, and so much
Ray Shay:
student agency and voice and choice and all these words that
Ray Shay:
we keep talking about in education. But how much are we
Ray Shay:
actually creating the spaces and opportunities for students to
Ray Shay:
deep dive, other than on the periphery, and in part of doing
Ray Shay:
that research with IBS C, which was such a valuable experience,
Ray Shay:
we looked at student engagement, and the numbers are chilling
Ray Shay:
when you talk to students about, do they love coming to school,
Ray Shay:
right? You go through the elementary years, and it's
Ray Shay:
really, really high, and then you get to those middle school
Ray Shay:
years, and we all talk about like, oh, Middle School is
Ray Shay:
terrible, and numbers just fall off. And they get even worse as
Ray Shay:
you go through high school, and students are self identifying
Ray Shay:
that they're disengaged from school. And I was specifically
Ray Shay:
looking at boys in my research for the International Boys
Ray Shay:
School coalition. But the numbers are true for girls as
Ray Shay:
well. It's not just a single gender that this is an issue
Ray Shay:
for. It's all learners. They happen to be a steadily epidemic
Ray Shay:
for boys, as we're seeing rates really change of boys graduating
Ray Shay:
and boys going on to college. And interestingly, just
Ray Shay:
yesterday, one of my colleagues sent me a new podcast from Ezra
Ray Shay:
Klein on the disengaged teen, which I haven't listened to the
Ray Shay:
podcast, but I did check out that book recently by Jenny
Ray Shay:
Anderson and Rebecca Winthrop, because I was updating my IBS C
Ray Shay:
research. I never got to present in front of a live audience. I
Ray Shay:
was supposed to be in Barcelona and 2020, pandemic hit, and I
Ray Shay:
did it alone in a zoom like system with no live audience,
Ray Shay:
and it felt incomplete, like I never finished this two years of
Ray Shay:
work, and I never got to do it. So this year, I got to go to the
Ray Shay:
nice IBS C conference in April in Manhattan. And it was great
Ray Shay:
to update the research a little bit, but to see that we're still
Ray Shay:
asking those same questions. John Mehta and Sarah fine, they
Ray Shay:
have this great book in search of deeper learning, the quest to
Ray Shay:
remake the American high school. And I took so much from that,
Ray Shay:
and they looked at all different types of schools, schools that
Ray Shay:
are supposed to be progressive, schools, that are traditional
Ray Shay:
schools that are supposed to be the next big thing. And they
Ray Shay:
came up with, it wasn't me. They came up with the idea that, like
Ray Shay:
the deep learning was happening there on the periphery. There
Ray Shay:
was this program here, that program there that maybe was
Ray Shay:
incorporated in the day, where they saw the speech and debate
Ray Shay:
teams, the student tech interns, gaining these really valuable
Ray Shay:
lifelong learning lessons and engagement was all on the
Ray Shay:
periphery. And that got me heading down the road and
Ray Shay:
wondering why we you know, Sir Ken Robinson, how many years ago
Ray Shay:
was his TED talk on us needing to rethink schools? And we keep
Ray Shay:
hearing people, and there's still people publishing on it,
Ray Shay:
because we're not changing the way schools are. So I'm excited
Ray Shay:
to continue to expand my role and get back into the auxiliary
Ray Shay:
program space, because I see so much continuity. There so much
Ray Shay:
opportunity for engagement to extend the school day into those
Ray Shay:
after school activities, to extend into the summer, some of
Ray Shay:
the students that I had the deepest connections with when we
Ray Shay:
talk about relational learning, it's because of what happened
Ray Shay:
outside of the classroom, either as a coach or as overseeing a
Ray Shay:
tech service project, or any of these non classroom places where
Ray Shay:
they get to see you in a different light, and you get to
Ray Shay:
see them in a different light, and it expands that student
Ray Shay:
teacher relationship. So that gets me super excited to
Ray Shay:
continue to do that and hopeful that we'll continue to learn
Ray Shay:
from that and make that more part of our everyday education
Ray Shay:
experience. So
Hiram Cuevas:
Ray It's funny how similar our backgrounds are. So
Hiram Cuevas:
I was a summer programs director for four years. We're members of
Hiram Cuevas:
the ibsc. Tye Campbell is also a member of the ibsc with at the
Hiram Cuevas:
Gilman school.
Ray Shay:
I went to that conference. Love Ty. It really
Ray Shay:
is
Hiram Cuevas:
an amazing organization and some of the
Hiram Cuevas:
relational teaching work that they are doing, but I completely
Hiram Cuevas:
agree with you that these courses that are on the
Hiram Cuevas:
peripheries really do target those affective objectives. In
Hiram Cuevas:
student learning that get them fired up for something. One
Hiram Cuevas:
class that we taught here for many, many years was build your
Hiram Cuevas:
own computer, and we built desktops, and then at the end,
Hiram Cuevas:
the goal of the class was to a be your own tech support. So as
Hiram Cuevas:
instructors, we would damage their machines in some way that
Hiram Cuevas:
they had to then fix and figure out what was wrong with it and
Hiram Cuevas:
create their own documentation, and then they would have a LAN
Hiram Cuevas:
party at the end, and they would have a great time. I mean, it's
Hiram Cuevas:
amazing, because we just had our alumni weekend, and the number
Hiram Cuevas:
of former students that came up and talked about that particular
Hiram Cuevas:
class is outstanding, so you're spot on. These peripheral
Hiram Cuevas:
courses are indeed a way to a child's heart
Ray Shay:
and lots of time. That's the way the tech director
Ray Shay:
can have more student engagement right during the day. We might
Ray Shay:
not have a class, but having that group of student tech
Ray Shay:
interns, or a group that you know is really interested in 3d
Ray Shay:
printing and comes to you with an idea like, those are the
Ray Shay:
times that sometimes the tech director has that student
Ray Shay:
relationship building is only there on the periphery. Bill
Ray Shay:
you're going to start a zombie class.
Bill Stites:
I already have one. Hiram. It's already running. You
Bill Stites:
can just stop them. I know Kristina wants us to stop
Bill Stites:
talking about this topic immediately.
Christina Lewellen:
I find if you ignore it, it goes away
Christina Lewellen:
faster.
Bill Stites:
One of the things I'm interested in is your
Bill Stites:
background with speech and debate, and what you were kind
Bill Stites:
of saying about the idea of having to debate your point, and
Bill Stites:
I think particularly in the area of AI where you can get the
Bill Stites:
answers, you can put in the prompt, you can get the answers,
Bill Stites:
you can present the answers. And in a traditional sense, that
Bill Stites:
might have been the end of it, but I think this ability, either
Bill Stites:
to ask deeper questions or enter into debate about it, really
Bill Stites:
gets to a way of assessing students understanding of
Bill Stites:
topics, because you're making them defend that. And I want you
Bill Stites:
to put on your master class of speech and debate right now and
Bill Stites:
tell all of us, what can we learn from someone with your
Bill Stites:
experience and expertise in this area? What can we learn from
Bill Stites:
that, from this perspective of using Speech and Debate tools to
Bill Stites:
gage student understanding for learning,
Ray Shay:
I love that question, Bill. What I'll say to start is
Ray Shay:
there's so much overlap between what we do as tech directors and
Ray Shay:
what I would teach as a speech and debate coach, we're teaching
Ray Shay:
critical thinking, whether we're working with our team or whether
Ray Shay:
we're working with our students. There's a problem that's
Ray Shay:
presented to the Help Desk, or there's something that they're
Ray Shay:
working on in their comp sci class, and we're trying to solve
Ray Shay:
that problem and apply critical thinking skills, and even before
Ray Shay:
generative AI, even at the level of search, you would put in
Ray Shay:
questions often, I would say, I'm the tech director, because
Ray Shay:
I'm better at googling things than you. I would say that to
Ray Shay:
people all the time because I didn't have the answer. But I
Ray Shay:
would go to Google, I'd get lots of responses, and I would try to
Ray Shay:
figure out what made the most sense. Are any of these working?
Ray Shay:
How do I reframe this question? Because what I got from Google
Ray Shay:
doesn't make any sense to me. It's not helping me get any
Ray Shay:
closer to the solution. So I think a lot of the things that
Ray Shay:
our librarians have taught us over the years are going to be
Ray Shay:
even more important today in the AI space, and what we can learn
Ray Shay:
from the speech and debate coaches is to make sure we don't
Ray Shay:
jump quickly to conclusions to sometimes maybe even argue the
Ray Shay:
other side of it. I am loved, and I think it's important for
Ray Shay:
tech directors to know you're already doing this. I love the
Ray Shay:
is Ed listserv, and sometimes people will come at it from two
Ray Shay:
very different perspectives. And I love that about it. I love
Ray Shay:
when a conversation as well. At our school, we do it this way,
Ray Shay:
and someone else is like at our school, we do it this way, and
Ray Shay:
whether that's the structure of the IT team, whether that's what
Ray Shay:
software platforms we're willing to deal with the risk on, like
Ray Shay:
Hiram was talking about, any of those things, there's always
Ray Shay:
room for that debate and that clash of ideas and then
Ray Shay:
ultimately rebuttals and synthesis and coming to some
Ray Shay:
truth at the end. So Ray, you've
Christina Lewellen:
now wrapped up, or you're about to wrap up
Christina Lewellen:
your first year at your school. You've had all these different
Christina Lewellen:
roles. What's on your mind for this summer? I know summer is
Christina Lewellen:
always a little bit of a reset. Sounds like you're taking on a
Christina Lewellen:
new role, but what's going to keep you busy this summer and
Christina Lewellen:
what are you looking ahead to in the fall?
Ray Shay:
So this summer, there's a number of projects, so
Ray Shay:
we're hiring for a new associate director of technology for data
Ray Shay:
systems. So we're really trying to elevate that position and
Ray Shay:
that data analysis, data visualization across. Our
Ray Shay:
campus. So that's going to be a big summer lift is onboarding a
Ray Shay:
new team member and working out what are the new
Ray Shay:
responsibilities for that role. And in doing so, we don't want
Ray Shay:
them to get bottomed down by some of the traditional
Ray Shay:
registrar roles, so we have a part time registrar, and how are
Ray Shay:
we going to move some of those things there so that some low
Ray Shay:
level data things can be taken care of and give space. Give
Ray Shay:
true space for someone to partner with every area of the
Ray Shay:
school to push further their data analysis, data
Ray Shay:
visualization, and I always say data informed decision making,
Ray Shay:
not data driven decision making, so that we give some space for
Ray Shay:
that debate about what the data actually means and what it means
Ray Shay:
we should do going forward. So that's one I think, as a tech
Ray Shay:
team last summer was really about learning what processes
Ray Shay:
were in place here, onboarding a couple other new members, myself
Ray Shay:
getting onboarded this summer. We already have started down the
Ray Shay:
route of, okay, we now know where some of our holes are.
Ray Shay:
We're using like the Atlas, 360 self survey. We already have
Ray Shay:
that as a guide for how many things we need to do this
Ray Shay:
summer. And sometimes that gets daunting, but it's like such a
Ray Shay:
great resource. When you jump into a new space, be able to
Ray Shay:
say, Okay, let's see how many things we can check off, and
Ray Shay:
then let's see what months and what plan we can have to get all
Ray Shay:
of this completed, and then reviewing the things that maybe
Ray Shay:
already are in place. But now that I seen this in action for
Ray Shay:
nine months, maybe I think we might want to tweak this, or we
Ray Shay:
might want to consider how I did that at the previous school. So
Ray Shay:
that's the summer, but I'll also say this is the first time where
Ray Shay:
I've been in a school where I'm taking more time to breathe, and
Ray Shay:
I think the Quaker tradition has been good for me, and so I hope
Ray Shay:
to take some time this summer and not have too many big
Ray Shay:
projects, and give myself some time to rest and recharge for
Ray Shay:
The next year, because I know Hiram and Bill probably feel
Ray Shay:
this way. Many, many, many, many times over the last 21 years, my
Ray Shay:
summers were much harder than the school year, and I needed a
Ray Shay:
break from my summer. 100%
Christina Lewellen:
we definitely hear a lot of that
Christina Lewellen:
from our tech folks. I'm going to never hear the end of it if I
Christina Lewellen:
don't dig a little deeper on this role that you're creating,
Christina Lewellen:
because I think so many schools are really struggling in the
Christina Lewellen:
data and data analysis space. So I gotta back you up there. I
Christina Lewellen:
mean, like, how in the world did you get this where'd this idea
Christina Lewellen:
come from? Did you have to, like, sacrifice a goat and
Christina Lewellen:
convince somebody to do it, where was the energy around
Christina Lewellen:
this? And then, in particular, to keep it separated from the
Christina Lewellen:
roles that data people traditionally fill in schools.
Christina Lewellen:
So can you walk us through a little bit of that? If you don't
Christina Lewellen:
mind? I mean,
Ray Shay:
one of the biggest reasons I came to Brooklyn
Ray Shay:
friends is we have an amazing Head of School, and Chrissy is
Ray Shay:
never afraid to create a new position or a different position
Ray Shay:
than other schools are creating, right so we have on our
Ray Shay:
leadership team many roles that you won't see on other
Ray Shay:
leadership teams, and this position in partnership with
Ray Shay:
her, it just became very apparent that We needed this
Ray Shay:
institutionally. We needed someone who was going to have a
Ray Shay:
little bit more of an elevated role and could partner with me
Ray Shay:
to make sure that we were able to reach all the different data
Ray Shay:
points within the school and work on those, data integrity,
Ray Shay:
data security, integration, automation, lead scheduling, but
Ray Shay:
not be the person that has to do scheduling all by themselves, as
Ray Shay:
oftentimes that happens lead a registrar, but not have to do
Ray Shay:
all of the transcript requests and parent access requests that
Ray Shay:
typically make it that reporting and analytics and forward
Ray Shay:
thinking and visioning of data lakes and building our own
Ray Shay:
dashboards, and that gets put to the side always right, because
Ray Shay:
there's operational things, and so having someone else who can
Ray Shay:
partner with me at that intersection of vision and
Ray Shay:
strategy and operationalized experience and push us and serve
Ray Shay:
the entire school, right? And be someone who's a thought partner
Ray Shay:
in all of the different offices, it became quickly a priority.
Ray Shay:
And I have to thank Chrissy for believing, you know, this was
Ray Shay:
something I thought we needed, and she's someone already wound
Ray Shay:
for that. And by the way, also a former Speech and Debate
Ray Shay:
competitor, a debater out of Newark, New Jersey, and so I
Ray Shay:
think she can see very quickly the importance of this role
Ray Shay:
that's
Christina Lewellen:
really impressive. I know that schools
Christina Lewellen:
are starting to get interested in this and try to figure out
Christina Lewellen:
how to actually get it done, but to create that kind of space,
Christina Lewellen:
whatever you call it, to do some of this high. Level, data,
Christina Lewellen:
informed decision making. My last question on this is, what's
Christina Lewellen:
at the top of your wish list? Like, okay, you get this person
Christina Lewellen:
in, you get someone who's super brilliant. What is the first
Christina Lewellen:
path or journey you send them on? So
Ray Shay:
one thing that's been really interesting in seeing the
Ray Shay:
different resumes that come in. Or, like, what kind of like,
Ray Shay:
micro credentials do people have? Some people have degrees
Ray Shay:
in data systems, but a lot of it you're coming in with, oh, I
Ray Shay:
have this recent certification in artificial intelligence and
Ray Shay:
data systems, or I have this recent data visualization and
Ray Shay:
business systems micro credentials. So it's really
Ray Shay:
interesting to see different people coming in with different
Ray Shay:
perspectives, but also different credentialing. And some of it
Ray Shay:
has me in the back of my mind, going, Okay, if it's not this
Ray Shay:
person, I do want them to go down the path of whoever's in
Ray Shay:
this role of getting that credential, or going down the
Ray Shay:
path of doing that type of training or that type of PD to
Ray Shay:
get us to where we are. So the first step, I think, is getting
Ray Shay:
this person on board with not just our vision here at school,
Ray Shay:
but also with what's going on in industry, and not just in
Ray Shay:
education, but what else is being done where places are
Ray Shay:
putting maybe more money into data analysis and data
Ray Shay:
visualization, and kind of learn from those spaces and help craft
Ray Shay:
together what that next year plan is going to be. I want to
Ray Shay:
give space for this person to also co author with me, what are
Ray Shay:
the next things that we should be doing as a school to really
Ray Shay:
push our institution forward and have tech be serving that
Ray Shay:
mission and vision. I
Christina Lewellen:
mean, guys like, if you got this dropped in
Christina Lewellen:
your lap, Bill and Hiram, if you suddenly found yourself with a
Christina Lewellen:
part time Assistant Director for Data wizardry, what would be the
Christina Lewellen:
first thing you would ask them to do?
Bill Stites:
I think that's the other piece of this, in terms of
Bill Stites:
identifying the questions that need to be asked. Because I
Bill Stites:
think what ends up happening a lot of times is everyone's got
Bill Stites:
like, oh, I would love to see the data around this or this or
Bill Stites:
this. But is that question mission aligned? Is that
Bill Stites:
question going to answer a bigger question related to
Bill Stites:
either your strategic plan or your underlying missions or an
Bill Stites:
underlying project that's going on. So understanding how those
Bill Stites:
approvals happen in terms of where you're going to direct
Bill Stites:
that person, I think, is very interesting. But first and
Bill Stites:
foremost, the thing I'd be interested in is what is your
Bill Stites:
number one priority at the school, and get them focused on
Bill Stites:
how data can inform and help guide work in that area. So it's
Bill Stites:
not any one thing, because I think with every school it's
Bill Stites:
going to be different, but you have to really line all of those
Bill Stites:
pieces up, look at what's the one main thing and get them
Bill Stites:
going there. Otherwise they're going to get caught on all these
Bill Stites:
little side projects that are going to answer these little
Bill Stites:
questions that may help someone with this one thing, but aren't
Bill Stites:
really advancing the overall mission. And that's what I
Bill Stites:
think, is where I would focus that work and try to help define
Bill Stites:
that with them.
Unknown:
The only thing
Hiram Cuevas:
I would add. And it really struck me, Ray, when
Hiram Cuevas:
you said you wanted to give this position space, I was really
Hiram Cuevas:
captivated by your use of that term, because all too often we
Hiram Cuevas:
layer upon these new positions, lots and lots of scut, the stuff
Hiram Cuevas:
that nobody wants to do. And we all know the phrase, it all
Hiram Cuevas:
rolls downhill. And I think what I would do in my particular
Hiram Cuevas:
case, if this was my baby, it would be to protect this person
Hiram Cuevas:
to the point where I have the governance in place so that we
Hiram Cuevas:
have the capacity to talk about survey design, to talk about
Hiram Cuevas:
data privacy, to talk about what's the retention of the data
Hiram Cuevas:
that we are collecting. I had a really interesting experience
Hiram Cuevas:
last week. I had a student who's doing a capstone project who is
Hiram Cuevas:
giving out these surveys, and he asked another IB SC school out
Hiram Cuevas:
in Australia, and the head pushed back because he asked all
Hiram Cuevas:
of these different questions about data. And so the faculty
Hiram Cuevas:
sponsor reached out to me and said, Can you help with this?
Hiram Cuevas:
And we started talking about the Australian Privacy Principles,
Hiram Cuevas:
which are different than GDP are, which are different than
Hiram Cuevas:
here in the States, because it's by state as opposed to a
Hiram Cuevas:
national system. And so it's so big, what Ray's position is
Hiram Cuevas:
essentially going to incorporate into the school that to go fast,
Hiram Cuevas:
you got to go slow, and you really. Really need to protect
Hiram Cuevas:
this person such that you can truly stick to what Bill would
Hiram Cuevas:
say, What's mission critical? Does it fulfill the mission but
Hiram Cuevas:
also satisfy all the other things that we're trying to do
Hiram Cuevas:
with data governance, privacy, the incorporation of AI, all of
Hiram Cuevas:
those different things, because schools are sloppy with this
Hiram Cuevas:
stuff when you're hearing people talk about data lakes and data
Hiram Cuevas:
warehouses, you start to realize we have these addicts that
Hiram Cuevas:
aren't very structured and very organized, and we're having to
Hiram Cuevas:
do a lot of cleanup, and that is going to take a tremendous
Hiram Cuevas:
amount of time, because then you've got to deal with school
Hiram Cuevas:
culture, because people are used to doing things a certain way,
Hiram Cuevas:
and so I would say, go slow to go fast and focus on the data
Hiram Cuevas:
governance and the cultural shifts that are undoubtedly
Hiram Cuevas:
going to happen at your school.
Ray Shay:
That's so true. Hiram, thank you so much for that. You
Ray Shay:
know, one thing in like building a team I took from my previous
Ray Shay:
head is these little weekly digital check ins that can
Ray Shay:
inform our one on ones, and the platform that I used at my
Ray Shay:
previous school stand out that EDP now bought. So not sure if
Ray Shay:
small teams can use it very much anymore. But in addition to it
Ray Shay:
giving a strength of assessment so that you know everybody on
Ray Shay:
your team what their two biggest strengths are, and get kind of
Ray Shay:
like individual coaching tips on how to work with this person or
Ray Shay:
who go to for what I love, that it had a quick, you know, the
Ray Shay:
same way we'd have our students maybe do a fist to five, get a
Ray Shay:
quick pulse, you know. How are you doing today? Is it a
Ray Shay:
terrible day? Is a great day, these little two minute check
Ray Shay:
ins, what did you love this week? What did you load this
Ray Shay:
week? What are your priorities? And how can I help? And those
Ray Shay:
four things are so helpful, and I hope that with this new
Ray Shay:
position, that I'll quickly hear those things that they load and
Ray Shay:
can figure out, how do we solve those things so that we can
Ray Shay:
protect those things that they love, and that the things that
Ray Shay:
are the priorities for our school. And that's what I think
Ray Shay:
an evolution of our tech role is doing exactly that is making
Ray Shay:
sure that our team is not just structured in the best way, but
Ray Shay:
as you put it, Hiram, that they're all protected and
Ray Shay:
empowered to do the great job that we're actually hiring them
Ray Shay:
to do.
Christina Lewellen:
Absolutely so as we draw to a close and
Christina Lewellen:
we're kind of running out of time with you, Ray, I have to
Christina Lewellen:
bring up the fact that in 2022 you were the New Jersey Speech
Christina Lewellen:
and Debate lead Coach of the Year. Pretty cool. So clearly,
Christina Lewellen:
you're pretty awesome at that, but I read deeper into your bio,
Christina Lewellen:
and I recognize something that I see in myself, and that is that
Christina Lewellen:
you have a ton of kids, and so I would love to think that you're
Christina Lewellen:
just very, very skilled with the whole speech and debate, and I'm
Christina Lewellen:
sure you are, but I think that my speech and debate skills are
Christina Lewellen:
honed by the fact that I have four daughters between the ages
Christina Lewellen:
of 19 and 23 you have five kids and four pets. So that's a lot
Christina Lewellen:
of chaos. Is that why you're so good at Speech and Debate?
Ray Shay:
That might be. How old are your kids? I have 520, 1812,
Ray Shay:
10 and eight, two girls, three boys. But I would say, probably
Ray Shay:
more importantly than that, my wife is a Pennsylvania High
Ray Shay:
School Speech and Debate League Hall of Famer, so I don't have
Ray Shay:
that on my resume.
Christina Lewellen:
Okay, we need to get your wife on the
Christina Lewellen:
pod. So Ray, you lose every argument, exactly.
Bill Stites:
Debating, having another kid you've lost multiple
Bill Stites:
times.
Christina Lewellen:
I feel like we need to get Ray and his wife
Christina Lewellen:
and maybe a couple of their kids on a pod and just like, launch
Christina Lewellen:
them and just see what happens. Is this what your dinners are
Christina Lewellen:
like every night?
Ray Shay:
Oh yes, they are eventful.
Christina Lewellen:
Do they have a favorite category of debate?
Ray Shay:
Definitely tech time, usage
Christina Lewellen:
free time. That's awesome. That's very
Christina Lewellen:
cool. Well, Ray, I'm so glad that you were able to join us
Christina Lewellen:
and spend this much time with us. It's been such a pleasure to
Christina Lewellen:
get to know you, and I am so glad that you finally got to an
Christina Lewellen:
atlas conference. I hope we continue to see you every year
Christina Lewellen:
Absolutely. Obviously, it's a very special gathering of our
Christina Lewellen:
friends, and you are one of them. So I hope that you get to
Christina Lewellen:
join us next year we're going to be in Columbus, Ohio, so
Christina Lewellen:
hopefully no massive trips in and out of New York for that
Christina Lewellen:
one. I can't wait. Awesome. Thanks so much.
Peter Frank:
This has been talking technology with Atlas,
Peter Frank:
produced by the Association of Technology Leaders in
Peter Frank:
Independent Schools. For more information about Atlas and
Peter Frank:
Atlas membership, please visit theatlas.org if you enjoyed this
Peter Frank:
discussion, please subscribe. I. Leave a review and share this
Peter Frank:
podcast with your colleagues in the independent school
Peter Frank:
community. Thank you for listening. You.
