Leading Tech Change in School Communities: Lessons from a Canvas Implementation

Hey everybody.

Good afternoon.

Glad that you could join us today.

Deborah was just telling me he's close to spring break, so I'd love for you to open up the chat and let me know how many weeks till your spring break do you have some repri and sight? Could also feel free to open up that chat and say hello.

Let us know who you are, where you're from, what you do.

Feel free to say hi to your other attendees.

We're gonna wait like one more minute and then we'll kick off the official recording.

I can tell you guys for my kids and my family, we just had Mardi Gras break, so we had a week off in February, but it's gonna be several more weeks till actual spring break.

Marty brought Brave.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah, yeah, it is.

Uh, we had, uh, 1.3 million people in town over the course of the Mardi Gras weeks.

So Ashley, are you in New Orleans? So I'm actually in Mobile, Alabama.

Okay.

Well, in fact, mobile started Mardi Gras Oh, ing So it started here in 1703.

So a lot of people think of New Orleans 'cause it's more famous for it, but we actually have quite a big celebration here.

My favorite one is a fire breathing dragon parade.

So, uh, we like to do it up big here in, in mobile as well.

Nice.

I'm actually from New Orleans, so Oh, nice.

Very good.

Yeah, miss Mardi Gras.

Miss miss It a lot.

We, we went over there some too.

Uh, we went to, uh, Iris and Night Parade right after that, and I'm blanking out on it.

Um, a couple of them.

So we took the kids over there as well.

Did a little bit of both this year.

Yay.

Throw me something.

Yeah, I got to go to New Orleans on a school trip last year, and we got to see the h like the warehouses they create the floats at.

Yes.

And that was really cool.

Like, they're working on those things from January, well, from a year in advance.

It's a year round.

Yeah.

Put it all Together.

Yeah.

Yep, yep.

It's like Santa Claus, you know, you, you finish up one year and then like the next day.

Right, right back now in central Louisiana, uh, central Virginia.

So I don't get to see a lot of Mardi Gras stuff anymore, but I did make my own king cake, so Nice.

Do you put the baby on the inside too, in the, your king cake? Yes, definitely.

And then I shared it with some students and they were like, oh, if you get the baby, do we get like a free dress down day? I am like, no, you get to bring the next king cake.

Nice.

Y'all, I apologize, my internet has been spotty for like the last 15 minutes.

Not quite sure what's going on there.

Um, we'll quickly get you kicked off and started though.

We've got an webinar.

We've got DeVere and Mike, and I'm gonna let them introduce themselves in just a second.

But they've got a fantastic content for us today.

They're gonna be talking about a phased student-centered canvas implementation.

So Mike Dere, we're so excited to have you with us.

Thanks for being here today.

No, thank you for having us.

Um, well I'll, I'll I'll get kicked off and then, and Mike and I can introduce ourselves.

But, um, for those, um, of you who are joining us today, thank you for, uh, spending some time with us as we, as we talk about this topic.

Um, I was, it's good to reconnect again with Ashley as I went through the Atlas Leadership Institute and, uh, which Ashley runs.

I got to know her pretty well.

And so this is great for me to be able to come back after going through that and, and share something that I was part of, um, with, with our Atlas, uh, can meet greater community.

Uh, so today the thought that, uh, we want to talk about is or Canvas implementation.

Um, and then, uh, Mike and I, uh, got the ability to, uh, work on that together, uh, for our school.

So my role at the school is I'm the Chief Technology Officer.

I've been at Noble Greeno School now for about Wow.

15 years, um, in, and I often partner with Mike on EdTech initiatives, and Canvas was one of them.

So I'll let Mike introduce himself.

Uh, hi everybody, including those that are joining us through the archive eventually.

Uh, my name is Mike Kalin, the director of Teaching and Learning here at Nobles.

Also work on professional development and growth and intersecting with our educational technology initiatives.

So, as we'll talk about during the origin of the Canvas implementation process, dev and I worked very closely with each other and Dev and his team really handled a lot of the technical piece of this, and I was responsible for some of the educational implementation of our strategy.

So, um, I can start out with kind of giving us the lay of the land, um, and talk about where our journey began.

And I'll let Mike jump in and as like, he was more of our content expert as we work, work through this.

Um, a little about our school.

Uh, noble Greeno School is located in Deta, Massachusetts, and we have about six on any given year, between 620 to 640 students, uh, between our middle school and upper school.

And where this journey really began was like, like a lot of great things during COVID.

Um, but during, um, during COVID we ended up, um, having to make a big decision.

And that big, big decision was, um, I'm not sure if any of you used Haiku, which was the PowerSchool LMS at the time.

And we got this notice from PowerSchool that, um, they were gonna be sunset this product.

And so here we are, um, we're moving into what was gonna be our, our hybrid year, um, or PowerSchool legacy LMS, um, was gonna be Sunset, um, which is what, but we didn't really have a requirement for LMS for our school.

Um, we were using some power school, which was, uh, a chunk of our teachers.

Uh, Google Classroom was another, uh, large one of our teachers.

And then I called the wild West.

We had some teachers who had their own classroom websites.

We had some teachers who had their own ad hoc ways of doing of, um, organizing materials for class.

And then some were just emailing things, um, to their students on a, on a nightly basis.

But we realized for us to, uh, run the school, uh, during, uh, a hybrid hybrid environment, we were going to need to make, um, a big decision that we said, all right, an LMS was going to be necessary for us to, uh, go through this time, um, as a school.

And so for, or a lot of our teachers really relied on Google Docs, and that was our, our feedback loop.

Uh, we really thought like we needed a, uh, a unified calendar.

We needed structure, we needed the student experience to be, um, similar from class to class, um, as opposed to being wildly varied.

And so with all those thoughts in mind, you know, we're like, Hey, we need to make a decision about what was gonna be next for our LMS.

And so, Mike, if you wanna jump in here to talk about why this implementation stood out.

Yeah, so I I would say, Deb, you already alluded, you said students several times, and I think from the get go, you know, we titled this like a student centered implementation.

Both our rhetoric and our strategy was always geared around sort of the what's best for students.

And I know we talk about that a lot in schools, but I think for us, that was just incredibly critical to collect student data.

And as we made decisions throughout the whole process, it was constantly thinking about what was gonna be best for the students that we serve.

Um, we wanted it also to be something that would be fully integrated into the life of the school.

And our, one of our biggest, if not biggest priority, was around the use of a calendar system.

So LMSs, as everybody in the call knows our use for a variety of different things, collect student work, post resources, post presentations, games, whatever it may be.

For us, we were singularly focused on a platform that would collect due dates of assignments and place them in a really digestible, easy manner with both, uh, computers and, uh, mobile devices.

And that was our number one criteria, going back to what was best for students from our perspective, that's what they were asking for, and that's what they needed.

Anything on top of that was icing on the cake, but we really wanted to make sure that we were putting the focus on the, on the calendar.

Yeah.

And then, uh, I can remember it distinctly where, uh, Mike, you and I were talking through, like, how are we gonna do this? I mean, I, I, we had this analogy of like, you know, how do you eat an elephant? And it's like one bite at a time, and it's like, how are we gonna roll out this huge canvas, um, implementation? And we came up with this idea that like, all right, we wanted a multi-year rollout.

Uh, we, we didn't think that it would be successful to say, go from zero to a hundred all at once.

And that was one another big, um, piece to this implementation, why it stood out is that we thought about what would create stability, longevity, and kind of start to normalize this, uh, product into or into our school.

Um, so starting out with, you know, I said, mentioned we had, we did a, a fair bit of research and Mike, I don't remember you wanna talk about the research? We talked, we did, uh, going into the project, Yeah.

I mean, I think it was like very natural to many of you who are thinking about changing an LMS or have implemented an LMS.

It was trying to really get a sense of what was out there.

And again, we had a pretty singular focus from the get go that we wanted a really good calendar system.

The other thing that was important, because Google Classroom was something that was chosen by many of our faculty, sort of on the side.

Um, again, the wild west metaphor, we had all these different LMSs being used, but I would say the one that folks were most loyal to was Google Classroom, where a Google App school, a lot of Google Docs were integrated in that system, so people really liked it.

So in addition to the calendar piece, as we were doing research, a big question was what Google products will really integrate smoothly into the LMS.

And so we had, so we looked at Schoology, um, since we were a PowerSchool school before with Haiku, uh, Schoology was, was who Haiku, um, uh, PowerSchool acquired as their new LMS feature.

Um, we looked like, as Mike mentioned, Google Classroom was an option, and then Canvas, uh, was a third option.

So those are the three big options that were on the table.

Um, and so what was good about this, this particular implementation is that as I look back, is that, you know, we didn't necessarily, we weren't just trying to make a change because it was the thing what we wanted to do as a preference.

Like we had to make a decision, and that helped this implementation, that, like, as a, as we talked to people about this upcoming change, it was like, all right, we're gonna have to make a change no matter what.

And I think that, you know, as a, in my role as a, uh, techno chief technology officer here, we've invented lots of software and, and then, and some stick and some don't.

And it, and it, people get used to their workflows and what they're doing and, and the they're using.

So change can be hard.

Um, it was really helped us create legitimacy in this implementation to say, this is something that we have to do.

We have to make a change because, you know, our PowerSchool instance was being sunset and we had to move to something new no matter what.

Yeah.

And, and I would just add to, to what Deb's saying is that many of you will not probably have the luxury that we had of a very pragmatic change as Dev was, you know, articulated.

We had to make the change with the sunset of Haiku.

But I would recommend, you know, can you generate that impetus for change, uh, through articulating a reason, like either this is not working as an impetus of change, or this is such an enormous opportunity that we have to pursue it.

So really generating and articulating the need for change, I think is important.

And as we chose the tool, um, we already alluded to these things like student-centered goal was what was, was priority, was our priorities.

Um, making sure that, you know, uh, the, the Google assignments feature, um, was that worked well.

And I know we've, we, we used Google assignments quite a bit here.

Mike, you wanna talk a little bit about the Google assignments integration? Yeah, yeah.

So Google assignments for those that are unfamiliar in the context sense, is essentially trying to incorporate some of the best, most used features of Google Classroom into the Canvas platform.

So assignments are still collected through Canvas, but the collection process looks like a Google classroom platform.

And that was very important.

Um, a lot of our humanities faculty provide feedback through Google Docs, and they wanted to do that, and it would've probably been a deal breaker to tell them that they needed to use an LMS native platform to provide feedback.

So as we've articulated, we wanted to make sure that what's called Google assignments, which is canvas's version of the Google integration, was possible.

Now, just to be transparent, Google assignments or a version of it does work for some LMSs, other LMSs.

So it wasn't the case, it was only Canvas, but Canvas had a pretty smooth one that we were really confident would work, and that was important to us.

Yeah, and I, and I honestly, if we look back, I mean, we didn't just choose a tool that was the easiest to implement.

We chose a tool that we felt met all the goals that we had outlined.

So as we think about it was a strategic decision in that way, I think if we just said, Hey, we're gonna be a Google Classroom School because it would ruffle, uh, the least amount of feathers amongst our faculty, that would've been the easy decision.

But as we thought strategically, it's like, no.

Uh, when we did research, a high percentage up to 80% of, of colleges and universities use Canvas.

So we thought that was something worthwhile that we're, we're helping kids develop skills on the tool that they'd be using after, uh, they matriculate from our school, and that it had other features that we were, uh, more the Google classroom that we were really strategically wanting to have.

And then part of that process, as we, I remember being on Zoom calls like this, or being in front of our faculty was, you know, before we ever showed what Canvas looked like before we talked about the features of Canvas before we talked about, um, the, the plan moving ahead.

We, we began with, um, the why, why are we doing this? How do we, we tried to make be consistent Hammer home, the point we need to make a change.

Here's why we're making the change, the changes for the better of our students.

There were, we wanted to make sure people knew decision was coming.

They weren't surprised by it.

They were like, we did sections where people got to ask questions and made sure that, um, we thought about the change management in schools is hard.

I mean, I'm sure it's not different at many of your other schools that you making change, um, can often be slow and there's resistance, but, but leading with the why, we found that that was a very helpful and useful tool as we move through this particular change.

Yeah, I would just echo that a million times, and if I sound like a broken record today, it is the why is to me, by far the most important part of a process.

And if we, as you know, technology leaders can't articulate the why ourselves, we have no chance of convincing others.

So as you work through an implementation process, whether it be Canvas or otherwise, continuing to think, all right, what in a really concise way can we say that clearly explains to all of our constituents, both faculty and students, why we're doing this? And if that's not the case, I think it'll be a tough process.

And I think that helped us after the fact as well.

I mean, even after we implemented, we could still lean back on, you know, for, I mean, it wasn't an ease implementation.

I mean, there were still, um, issues that we had to roll out, but we could always lean back on, on the why.

And I think people were more willing to work with us to work through the, any, any bumps along the way because they understood the why first.

And I think we also got a gift, um, when we were implementing the, um, canvas, was that for a lot of other things I I've found in, in, in working at our school is that people want options.

And they, but in this particular case, I think people wanted us to have clear institutional direction.

And this was one of the few implementations where it was, uh, we had, we made a top-down decision.

We said, here is why we have to make a change and it's gonna be Canvas, and we're giving a long runway.

And, um, unlike many other implementations I've been a part of in this one was unique in that I think people were actually craving that.

Like, tell me what I need to do and, and then, and give me the, the tools to success, um, in order to do this.

And for our mplementation, that was something that, that was a, was a gift for us.

And so what that led into as, as we thought through this meditation was this, this three year rollout, as I mentioned, we have an upper school and a lower school, and, and we've, in year one or middle school is a much smaller group.

Um, we have, what is it, uh, about 50, a hundred kids in our middle school, and then, um, a little over 500 in our upper school.

So in our middle school, um, smaller group of kids, smaller group of faculty, we, it was easier for us to say, in year one, we're gonna ask our middle school to take on, uh, canvas.

It allowed us and middle school and in any an implementation that we, I learned there's 20% of people who are on the cutting edge, bleeding edge that want to jump in, um, at the, at the deep end of the pool and, and learn how to swim.

And there's gonna be 20% that are, do not want to move.

And, and the, and then there's gonna be this, this middle group that you, that you're working with.

And so for those early adopters, um, we said the middle school would be required to do it in year one and then alert, allow the early adopters to jump in.

And so for those people who were resistant and didn't want to change right up front, um, we actually gave 'em a little bit of a, a year's, uh, uh, a gap, a a little relief so that they could slowly see how this worked out.

And then that middle group that w was, were more malleable.

They could see what was going well, we could work out the bugs, we could see, we could figure out what worked, uh, things that we had to adjust along the way.

And then in year two, we moved to, um, our full school implementation.

And by then we had, uh, cleaner implementation in year two, better messaging.

We'd learned some lessons from year one.

And then finally in year three, we were stabilized and, and we had a strong working implementation.

And so that two year, two phase approach worked really well for us.

So by year three, it become a pretty normalized part of our, our culture.

Um, anything else to add to that, Mike? No, I would just say, you know, maybe you don't have a middle school and a lower school, or maybe it's all lower school, maybe it's all upper school, but, you know, still figuring out a way, so maybe it's a certain grade or maybe it's a certain subject or discipline.

I, I, I feel pretty strongly that this was important to, to the success that we had.

The two year phase was very helpful.

And so figuring out a way that that might work, always welcoming the early adopters.

So we didn't tell anybody they couldn't adopt it if they didn't want to, but having folks built in, doing it earlier was helpful.

And those folks who did it their first year could then assist some of the folks that were more reluctant.

So it's also building a more expertise into the community, so that doesn't just all fall on the technology leaders to do the training.

And then, uh, Mike, and this is where Mike really shown, um, templates and training, uh, those were, uh, things that we spent a heavy amount of time on.

So Mike, I'll least share a bit more about the templates that you built in a training that we did.

Yeah.

So Canvas allows templates to be built for a course, and I design one that was, I would say fairly simple, but in the spirit of creating some continuity and some ability to talk about similar process of change, it was really helpful that everybody adopted, you know, it would say Noble and Greeno School, which is the full name of our school, and it would have four different options, one for a syllabus, one for modules, one for helpful resources, and an About Me.

And that was designed, and then every course that was created looked the same.

And in those first early years, we asked folks to keep the template for the most part, untouched so that there would be consistency and alignment across courses.

Since then, there's more flexibility that folks can use.

Um, but I think that was really important.

And again, in terms of training, we were all talking the same language as we were talking about what a homepage looks like in terms of training.

You know, C Canvas, like many LMSs has a whole series of training videos that folks can use and look at, but I felt it was really important to tailor our training to the specific features that we felt like were more important.

So I designed a training course through Canvas, so it gave people experience using the platform itself, but it was really focused on the things that we cared the most about, and then gave how to videos.

And that was, I think, helpful, a little bit more personal touch than just asking everybody to go look at videos on Canvas.

And again, it also helped us to talk about, for example, why we thought the Canvas calendar was so important, and I could do a, you know, several, two or three videos explaining how that Canvas calendar worked and why, again, we thought it was important.

Same thing with Google assignments, what we talked about earlier.

I could create a series of videos and explain in detail how faculty could use Google assignments, sort of getting a pulse of what we thought was most important for our faculty and our students, and then designing a tailored course to that.

And then lastly, and I think we mentioned this in another slide, had what called the five Minute Rule, which was basically telling our faculty, look, if you're trying to do something for five minutes and you're stuck either email or help department, or, we actually had a Canvas support opportunity there as well.

And that was to try and lower the temperature and say, look, we get it.

We don't want anybody sitting there for a half an hour, especially folks that are not debt to technology and mean, so Ed and angry, like immediately reach out and we'll get back to you.

And yeah, that required a lot of support, and it also required some financial investment to get the can support tier that we needed.

But I think that made a big difference.

And just the messaging of that alleviated some anxiety.

Yeah, I mean, I think well-meaning people, they, they don't wanna bother you and they want to try on their own to figure it out.

But I think, um, telling, I think giving people the, the liberty to say, Hey, spend five minutes and then if you're, if you're stuck to five minutes, we have, we have tools, resources, and support, use them to, to move ahead so you're not frustrated, um, as we move through its implementation.

And so, um, a little summarizing a bit of, of what we've talked about before was, uh, here are some things that as we, as we reflect on this implementation, that worked really well.

Um, Mike's talked a few times about the calendar, uh, the calendar adoption from day one.

Um, that was, that was a win for us, clear, consistent messaging.

We, we were clear, we said it was student centered.

We framed that, uh, that was a drumbeat, you know, anyone who was part of our tech department or part of implementation had had the same messaging about.

And, and it was clear why we were doing this, and the timeline and how we were doing this.

The failed roll rolled out allowed us to build some internal champions.

So we had some people who were, some of those early adopters end up becoming, you know, uh, leaders in their department, so that sometimes we found that que some questions wouldn't come directly to us because some of these, these champions rose up in departments and became and would and solve problems for their peers.

And, and so that, and that was a win.

And then on the long-term stability, once we got to year three, we, you know, this became normalized, uh, tool that was part of our, our workflow at our school.

Yeah, and I would just jump in really quickly.

This gets a little bit in the weeds of an LMS, but when we say calendar adoption, what we've required all of our faculty to do is when they post an assignment, they have to post the due date and the time, including for an individual section.

So like many schools, we have teachers who teach the same course, but multiple times during the day, but our schedule doesn't all meet at the same time all week.

So that was somewhat labor intensive, and I don't think that we would've gotten there.

If we would've added that requirement a year or two after we rolled out Canvas, I think we would've really got a lot of pushback.

But because the first date said, no, no, no, it's really important for every single assignment, it needs to be the due date for your appropriate section, that all then filtered into the calendar and made it very, very easy for students to understand when due dates occurred.

So it wasn't just that people posted like a test or, you know, a midterm on the calendar.

It was every single assignment that was due at the time that it was due with the appropriate section.

And I mean, if, can I, to add one more thing, and I think that worked particularly well, is that our students really, uh, embraced and, and, and, and wanted this, uh, when we, when we talked to students or we did some survey work, students really appreciated having all their assignments in one platform, uh, all their work.

They, rather than going to, if I had five different classes, I could theoretically have been going to five different places to find out what I need to do, um, for my five different classes and centralizing it.

So I, I would talk to whether it was my advise, well, I sat with my advisees, I could sit with an advisee and everything that need to do, I could look at their to-do list, I could look at their calendar, I could go through, I could look at their classes and sit with them.

And so what worked especially well was it, it was a win for the students.

That was our framing from the start.

And then when we talked to students after, um, they, this is something that they found was extremely useful for them, Are you excited for chat? And so Mike, let's, let's think about if we, if we reflect critically, what do we do different, if we could go back, um, to our, or to year one or when we first started this process, if we wanna be critical of ourselves.

So I think I was anxious about the calendar requirements themselves and the pushback that we were gonna get.

And so because I was anxious about that, we made decisions to not mandate other aspects of an LMS, including a grade book.

And for those that are familiar with Canvas, there's something called modules which organizes content and assignments for students.

And we made the decision when we rolled it out and said, uh, we're gonna focus on the calendar.

That's what we're gonna focus on.

Hopefully some people might use the modules and hopefully some people will use the electronic grade book.

And sure enough, I would say most of our faculty got there, but there are a decent chunk, maybe I'd estimate between 20 and 30% who, for example, don't use the Canvas grade book or may not even use modules.

And I do wish we would've been even more ambitious very early on in mandating it.

I think it, it becomes increasingly difficult as the use of an LMS occurs.

It feels much more like a added request.

And we still may do this, but the module or the grade book, but I wish we would've said, Nope, we're doing this from day one.

Everybody's gonna use this.

We're gonna provide professional development to learn how to do it.

Uh, and and being more ambitious, I think could have helped us Mean and, uh, a follow up thought about modules, you know, the, the modules really support the, the organization executive function of, of, of our students.

And as Mike said, when we were thinking about this, uh, modest or modest or timid might have been the, the better analogy is where we're thinking, all right, we're making a big ask of our faculty.

Like, let's not push too hard and, and, and maybe not ask them for too much.

Um, but in retrospect, I think that, you know, that particularly the modules is, is is something that we could have done, um, during the original implementation as it just creates far more consistency navigation amongst our classes.

Uh, so this is kinda what we just talked about, talked about.

And so, um, here are some of our key takeaways.

Um, as we mentioned, you know, change is hard, but it's, it's definitely easier with, um, a clear institutional reason.

You know, from day one, I said we were, that I, I I, I remember getting that email from, from PowerSchool initially and be like, oh, um, there are sun setting haiku and haikus going away, and what does that mean? And being nervous and, uh, about what, what that's gonna mean for our school.

But in retrospect, I mean, that was a force forcing function for us that because it change had to happen, it allowed us to have a clear direction as an institutions like, we change needs to happen.

We need to be aligned amongst our classes.

And this was something that we, that allowed us to create momentum in our change because we were clear about or reason and the why from the beginning.

Mike, you wanna speak to number two? Sure.

So we alluded to soliciting feedback, uh, both I think through a few focus groups and through surveys themselves.

You know, what do you want in a platform to a student? What is your greatest need? And it's helpful just to know that in itself.

But it also, going back to the legitimacy piece, you're able to then go, okay, we have a lot of this data faculty, our students are pleading for more consistent organization of a calendar.

Like we have the data to show you that.

And going back to impetus for change, that added some legitimacy to that.

I think that was very important.

Yeah, we've talked about the why, uh, and if I move now, number four, and I've, I've tried to do this with some other roll offs that we've tried is, is create time for people to learn.

Um, I mean, technology doesn't come easily to, to everyone.

And, and for some of our colleagues, um, they, they, they struggled not just with the technology, but with the change, but giving them the, the gift of time to, uh, us time, who are the implementers to iterate and to work through the problems, but giving them time, um, to learn and not necessarily put it all on them on on one time, that's been, uh, a helpful, uh, thing to do and other implementations.

And that was a key takeaway from this one as well.

And then, uh, number five, uh, is thinking about the process, not not just the tool.

You know, I, I like to think about our, our technology that we use at our school.

Um, as I, as I'm in charge of the technology department, my job and my team's job is to support the functions of the school.

So we don't, we try not to choose a tool for a tool just for, uh, the tool's sake, but think about how does this support, uh, learning at our school, how does it support the work that our educators are doing? And as part of this, a success implementation of this product was really thinking about the process, not just the tool.

Yeah.

And I think that piece of it is really exciting.

Not the technology itself isn't exciting.

Certainly I was interested in what Canvas could do and provide for our students, but this notion of change management is such a big challenge, but so fulfilling.

It's hard.

It can be demoralizing.

It can be reinvigorating, but that to me is the story of a Canvas implementation.

It's, it's really a story of change management and changing culture over time, which is, you know, unfortunately much trickier than just choosing the platform.

Um, so that is our, our reflection on, on our time as we wanted to leave some time.

Um, after we spoke to, uh, open it up for any questions you can have, um, general questions or about, or anything specific about Canvas or about or or implementation, um, as we shared with you or experience.

Dave, I saw Michelle's question about in the three year plan, when did the original LMS become available? Do you remember? Was it the fall of the year we rolled out Canvas? Yes.

So we were able to, uh, we made the decision with Canvas in, in the spring, used the summer, uh, Mike created all the documentation, created, um, all the training courses and member and Mike and you built, uh, we built a Canvas learning, uh, a webpage where people would go for all documentation.

And then I believe we had, um, a week before the start of that fall, we had training sessions for all our faculty and then start of school that fall, the, the, uh, started using the platform.

Uh, what did upper school use for year one? Um, it was sort of the Wild West.

Some people didn't use anything for those that really wanted to use an LMS Google Class.

Google Classroom was sort of the default.

Um, but it wa it was optional.

I'm trying to remember what our num numbers were.

Dev in terms of how many upper school folks adopted it, I would say it was at least 20.

Yeah, it was a little over 20.

It was about 21 or 22.

Um, like I said, we did have some Canvas people who were Canvas users before.

Um, and then so we were able to roll them into our instance, and then we had some people who got really excited about it and they wanted to be, they're like, Hey, if this is what we're gonna do moving forward, I'd rather learn it now than wait a year and learn it.

So we had a little, about 21 or 22 people from our upper school join in as early adopters.

And as an aside, this was a generous, uh, support of our up our head of school.

But I think we gave everybody like a hundred bucks to do the training program during that summer, which is not much, but at least it was a nod to one, we think this is important, this is important work, and two, we're gonna recognize your time for it.

I think that was received decently well by faculty, even though it's not a huge amount of money, it was like we acknowledged that you're gonna need to do a little bit more over the summer.

So That's, yeah.

Yeah.

I, I think people really, I, I, they appreciated the, the gesture.

There was a thought, like there was a commitment to this, this wasn't gonna be, I think sometimes I get this feedback, alright, so how long are we really gonna use this for? How long is this gonna stick around for? Is it worth my time? And I, between the training and the gesture of a stipend, uh, and all and all the communication people realized this was gonna be something that had legs to it.

And so that made a difference.

So we have not mandated modules.

It's, it's part of the conversation.

So not only have we not mandated modules, but the other thing that happened is that if you're familiar, unfamiliar with modules, there's a lot of different ways to organize them.

And that's also what's happened.

So even for our folks who use modules, they're using them in different ways.

Some of them will post assignments from most recent to oldest, some will go from oldest to most recent.

They're sort of all over the place.

And these are the kinds of things that I wish we just would've thought through and set a standard for from day one.

Um, I'm sort of hoping to, or I, I've sort of tried to organically support the use of modules and with our new faculty who we onboard during the summer before they start, I've pushed that pretty hard to say, Hey, I think this is a really good idea, but we have not yet mandated that across the school.

And I, I think, I mean, Mike's approach there, I think is the one, so we're a little more Quest, we're sneakily saying that by anybody new to the school, they, we tell them this is how to do it.

We're not telling the entire, like our faculty how to do it.

But if we get enough of a, if all the new people coming in over the years start doing it this way that people who are already doing it, then the, then it becomes a smaller and smaller population who have to switch over.

Is he a sophomore? Yeah.

So one other thing.

You know, if more questions come in, so the question of ai, um, if I was evaluating LMSs right now, I would wanna make sure that a company is adopting some AI tools for those that are familiar with Google Classroom.

I think Google has gems and has other forms of Gemini products baked into their Google classroom.

Canvas has a partnership, either their partnership or an agreement with Open ai.

So they're slowly adopting some different AI features.

But there's no doubt that I think probably in three or four years how we view an LMS will probably significantly change.

As, you know, chat bots and tools become much better and more integrated in LMS is.

So I think that's important thing to consider and, and research.

I have a question about the context or a comment to make.

Right now at our school, we're evaluating LMS as we currently use, use Schoology, and we're taking a look at Google Classroom and also at tottle.

Um, nobody seems to like Schoology and we have some, we've done some surveying and things like that.

But my concern is, is that, uh, we've done other changes in the past, there's been just a nominal improvement and it's a huge lift as you guys are showing us, you know, to get the thing off the ground and get everybody, um, on board.

What would you say to me as far as thinking about how to weigh the input of people on, on the campus? Um, you, you've got on here, what's driving the pressure to change? So I don't know any thoughts? I I, I'd love to ask you like, what are, are you, are you the person or are there folks who are itching to get rid of Schoology? Or, or like, is is that a widespread criticism or is it just people don't like LMSs? It's a widespread criticism of Schoology from parents, um, teachers and then also students.

And what particularly are people frustrated about? Um, the Google assignments, like not working.

So, you know how you were talking about being able to give feedback on writing and things like that, that not working? Um, our administration doesn't like it.

You can't see like all the classes at one time.

You know, if you wanna go through and make sure people are using the template, you have to, there's so many clicks involved, they, they don't do updates and things like that.

Um, so yeah, there's multiple reasons, but that, I like how you guys said that you stuck to like a main reason why you were making a change.

You had to make a change, but you stuck to one message.

Yeah, I think that's important.

So I don't know as much about Schoology, but if it was the case that Google assignments were consistently not working on Schoology, I can imagine that having a huge impact on the rest of the school.

Mm-hmm.

And a lot, especially humanities teachers.

So that in itself, um, I can't say there's never been a hiccup with Google assignments and Canvas.

Um, but certainly if you're gonna think about going to Google Classroom, you're guaranteed to have a very seamless, you know, integration with Google Docs, with Google Classroom.

Um, but yeah, that idea of being, you know, I just wonder, listen, hearing you speak, I think there's gonna be always grumblings about LMSs and trying to figure out like what's beneath the noise? Are people are fa are your faculty just picking on this because they don't like having to use an LMS or will they truly be happy if a change was made? And I don't know the answer to that, but my guess is that some of those complainers just don't like the expectation that they need to use an LMS and they will not be satisfied with any change that you make.

So I'd be a little cautious about, you know, moving based on them.

Now if there are people acting more in good faith, then there's be a conversation about what might make them more satisfied.

That's a good point to try to figure out what's behind the noise.

Yeah.

And then just to add on to that, um, one of the things, the feedback we got even after we implemented Canvas was like, it's a lot of clicks and I would hear people say, it's a lot of clicks to do, to do everything.

Um, but at the same time, they would all, they can also say, my students feel like they're being better served by, by this platform.

So because our messaging from the top was this is student centered, the, the, the faculty and the adults could concede, yes, this might be more clicks than I want to, yes, this might not be perfect, but because it's benefiting my, the students and that's, and that's who we are here to serve.

That was the messaging that resonated.

I think that's an important message about just giving more, we have gotten feedback from teachers and students, much more feedback from teachers.

But it sounds like feedback from students would be the most valuable thing if you are having a student centered process like you guys did.

Yeah.

The higher ed piece, you know, uh, Nobles is in the Boston area, so we're most familiar with some of the New England schools, but so many of our schools, so many of our students end up going into higher ed places where Canvas is being used.

And it's not to say students are so savvy.

So I wouldn't say that that was the number one reason why we chose it, but it certainly didn't hurt that in your area, depending upon where you are geographically and depending upon where most of your students go to school, it could be curious to check out and see what's being utilized.

I think Canvas has a big share of the market in higher ed.

Um, but I'm sure there are other tools out there as well.

And a anecdotally, to piggyback on that, it wasn't a a, like I said, Mike said a a driving factor, but it was, uh, interesting to note.

I remember hearing from some parents that like, oh, after soon after implementation where kids got exposed to Canvas at, at our school, that when they matriculate to their college, oh wow, this fall when my, when my my child got to their, their college, they were actually using the same system.

And so on the parent end, just seeing that, being, really being familiar, that that helped our process as well.

One other thing that we didn't touch upon is the intersection between pedagogy and technology and an LMS.

And so for things like project-based learning canvas, and I'm sure other LMSs, you can create groups, um, if if schools do standards-based grading, canvas supports that.

So as you're talking with your teams, if you're a technology leader and you're talking with other folks in the school trying to understand the intersection between like pedagogically what is important to our school and how might the LMS support that I think is an interesting conversation 'cause there is some variability among LMSs about what they'll support depending upon what you use.

Any other final questions as we Dr to wrap this up today? Everybody? I don't know if I have a question.

I think it's more of a comment.

I just wanted to share some feedback and thank you for your thoughtful approach in sharing, um, how you went through this implementation and the change management.

Uh, we are currently, uh, B12, uh, pre-K 12 Canvas school trying to figure out if Canvas really makes sense in the elementary school grades, um, because of the consistency for students and consistency for parents versus what might be what might be more developmentally appropriate for our, our our littles.

And so it's, it's helpful to hear some of the questions that you asked along the way and how you shared it with your faculty.

And I know it's a somewhat different lens because of the age group you're working with, but, um, just giving me a little food for thought.

Yeah, that's an interesting, that's really an interesting question 'cause we, we don't confront it 'cause we don't have a lower school, but I have a seven and 9-year-old, they use Google assignments or Google, excuse me, Google Classroom.

Um, so yeah, it, that tension between the argument for consistency versus what might be specifically tailored to student age is an interesting question.

I I definitely don't feel qualified to answer that for the lower school piece, but that's a tough one.

And I know that, I know that Canvas has a tool for younger students that we're not using.

So right now we're, it's kind of a glorified landing page, so it's something we could do with a Google Doc or Google sites.

Um, so yeah, those are some of the things we're grappling with right now.

Trying to figure out what's, what's the best approach for our institution.

Yeah, I just wanna introduce myself.

I'm Erin Shifflett, I'm the membership coordinator for Atlas.

Um, Ashley is doing everything she can to get on, but I think it we're, um, starting to get towards the end.

So if there's any more questions that, um, 'cause this was an amazing webinar and I'm so grateful for you guys for the information that you gave today.

So if there's any more questions, Well thank you guys for all, for attending and spending some time with us this afternoon.

Yeah, I really appreciate, as Dev mentioned, I know everybody's a busy schedule, especially those that are getting closer to break or even are not closer to break.

So we really appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

Very educational.

Thanks for sharing.

I learned a lot.

You're welcome.

Thank you.

And I'll stay on if anybody has any more questions, but thank you so much.

All right.

Have a good afternoon.

Have A good afternoon.

Thank you guys.

I'm sorry about Ashley's internet, but it went well.

You guys did an amazing job.

Well, thank you.

So, um, is there anything, um, let me see, let me stop the recording..