Strengthening the Business Office and Technology Partnership with James Palmieri
Presented by:
James Palmieri, CEO of NBOA Advisory Services, joins the podcast to discuss the evolving relationship between school business offices and technology departments. He shares insights on managing the "double gap" in independent school financial models and emphasizes the importance of early technology involvement in capital projects.
- NBOA, business leadership for independent schools
- NBOA Advisory Services, supporting independent schools with consulting and leadership solutions
- Top Risks for K-12 Charter and Independent Schools, self-reported top risks from members of United Educators, providing liability insurance and risk management solutions to K-12 schools, colleges, and universities
- ATLIS Leadership Institute, education and networking program designed to prepare and support technology leaders in independent schools
- Partner Talks: Jeff Shields from NBOA on AI, Governance, and the Power of Collaborative Leadership, episode of Talking Technology with ATLIS
Transcript
Peter Frank:
Matt, welcome to Talking technology with ATLIS,
Peter Frank:
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
Peter Frank:
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Peter Frank:
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
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special guests from the Independent School community,
Peter Frank:
and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Peter Frank:
And now please welcome your host, Christina Lewellen,
Christina Lewellen:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to
Christina Lewellen:
talking technology with ATLIS. I'm Christina Lewellen, the
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President and CEO of the Association of technology
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leaders in independent schools.
Bill Stites:
And I am Bill Stites, the Director of
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Technology at Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New
Bill Stites:
Jersey,
Hiram Cuevas:
and I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of
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Information Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher
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school in Richmond, Virginia.
Christina Lewellen:
Bill Hiram, hello. How are you guys doing?
Christina Lewellen:
Just grand, fabulous. So you guys probably know, and our
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listeners may remember, because I'm sure I mentioned this last
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year. I'm not the biggest fan of resolutions, and I think it's
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probably because I'm a pretty consistent go to the gym all
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year round person, and so, of course, there's lots of
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resolutions that happen where my normal gym times get very
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crowded in January. I'm not particularly a pessimistic
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person or particularly snarky about things most of the time,
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but I'm not the biggest fan of resolutions. I do like goal
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setting, though we'll be listening to this in 2026 Do
Christina Lewellen:
y'all have any goals for the year?
Bill Stites:
Well, I'm not going to use the goal that Christina
Bill Stites:
gave me before we went live, which is to be nicer to you,
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Hiram,
Christina Lewellen:
that was my recommendation,
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because that's not interesting. It's not fun. It
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doesn't lend for a good podcast. But from a goals perspective, on
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a personal note, I am going to be focused on the successful
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launch of my oldest into his first job in the beginning of
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his first career opportunity outside of school. You've heard
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me talk about baseball. My oldest just landed a job with
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the Atlanta Braves. He's going to be moving to Florida, so
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exciting and getting his life together. And really just want
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to put some effort into making sure that that is as successful
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as possible because he has got some serious career aspirations
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and hoping that it kicks off well and will be focused on
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getting him there and getting him settled.
Christina Lewellen:
That's pretty good goal. What a great
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dad, Hiram. What you got? Do you have any, dare I say,
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resolutions or goals for the year?
Hiram Cuevas:
I just want to share in the joy for Mr. Sean
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Stites. I mean, love that boy. He's a fantastic human being,
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and I'm thrilled for him. They actually called me when he got
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the news to let me know.
Christina Lewellen:
Oh no, so this is like an uncle Hiram sort
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of situation going on, like he wanted to tell you himself, that
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is awesome.
Hiram Cuevas:
Oh yeah, yeah. It's fun when I'm on the phone
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and all of a sudden, Bill will hand the phone to his son. He
Hiram Cuevas:
goes, Cuevas,
Christina Lewellen:
I love it. I love it so much. You know,
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there's always those goals that wrap around your kids. I may
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have mentioned on the pod that my family has little lake
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cottages up in Western New York, and my husband and I were able
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to purchase the one right next to my dad's. And I have a goal
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to try to not cancel the trips that I have scheduled to go up
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and spend some time with my big family, my extended family, very
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near my hometown. So I'm trying to get to the lake. Guys, you've
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got to hold me accountable this year. Like, I cannot cancel
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these trips. I can work up there. Like Richard made sure
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that the Wi Fi was very plugged in. So I have no excuse. I just
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need to go up there. I'll work during the day. I'll hang out
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with the ants at the bonfire at night. Like this needs to be my
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goal is
Bill Stites:
it full season? Like, can you go up there in the
Bill Stites:
winter?
Christina Lewellen:
Okay, yep, it's like a May through November
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thing. It's intense. We bought it right at the end of the
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season, and I had to go up there, and they, like, blow all
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the water out of the pipes and put any freeze in so that it
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doesn't freeze over the winter. And I even had to take the
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Keurig that I had in the lake house and take it in a tote,
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along with other anything that had liquid in it to my dad's
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basement. My dad lives about 12 miles away from the lake, and I
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stored some stuff up there so that it doesn't freeze in the
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cottage over the winter. So pretty intense with the winters
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up near Buffalo.
Hiram Cuevas:
I'll tell you what absolutely that sounds fabulous.
Christina Lewellen:
Should we do a pod from my lake property?
Christina Lewellen:
Yes, absolutely, okay. We got a field trip. My family would love
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you guys. They'd probably make some guest appearances. They're
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crazy, so I love it. Well, we have a really exciting guest
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with us today, a good friend of ours that we. Spend some time
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within the boardroom. Mr. James Palmieri, how are you, sir,
James Palmieri:
good Christina, thank you and Bill and Hiram for
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having me on your pod today.
Christina Lewellen:
Really glad to have you. We've been meaning
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to have you for a while, and now just seemed like the best time,
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because you guys have a lot going on over at NBOA. James,
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you are the chief executive officer of the NBOA advisory
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services, which is brand new, so we'll talk about that, but
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you're also the executive vice president at the bigger
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organization at NBOA. You are such a fantastic organization
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and partner with ATLIS. We look up to you guys, and we love
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working with all of your team at NBOA. We've had Jeff on the pod
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before, but this is going to be fun. We're really excited to
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talk excited to talk
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to you. I really enjoyed engaging with you three
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and the full Board and the ATLIS community over the last few
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years, and I really value the time I get to spend and learn
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with all of you in both in the boardroom and at some of your
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professional development events, and it relates two fold, one to
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my work at NBOA, for sure, and the fact that we're both serving
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this wonderful pre K through 12 independent school community.
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But it also kind of fills my bucket in that I'm a lifelong
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learner, and I don't consider myself a tech expert, and
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therefore I learn from you each time we gather.
Christina Lewellen:
I love that we will definitely talk more
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about NBOA. But let's start for those who may not know you
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because you're not part of the tech leader crowd, that was not
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your journey at all. So let's go into your background a little
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bit. How long have you been in the Independent School world,
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and how did that transition happen to work at NBOA.
James Palmieri:
Well, my life in education began young. I grew up
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in a large family of educators in public school districts
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throughout Long Island, New York, where I grew up, and so I
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always knew I wanted to work in schools. I initially pursued my
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teaching certifications, but I quickly found myself at my first
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independent school when I was in graduate school and I got my
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first role, actually coaching La Crosse at Kent place school and
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summit New Jersey, not far from Bill, really kind of fell in
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love with the environment, the old girls environment the
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Community. Was fortunate to be offered a position to stay and
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quickly moved into business operations such as safety and
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security and facilities management, food services,
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transportation, but always wanting to keep my foot on the
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academic side of the school, so I straddled as best as I could
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getting involved with our accreditation work, some
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strategic programs and global travel with our students. Just
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really had a full experience, in addition to my wife and I living
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on campus, which was a day school and not boarding, but was
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a great experience to really dive in after eight years there.
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I had recently finished up my Edd, my Doctor of Education, and
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my dissertation was on startup schools. I was really interested
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in the idea of new schools opening and serving unique
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purposes in their market, and through that, I was fortunate to
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be able to help a couple of founders who were funding the
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startup of an all girls high school on the Jersey Shore,
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where I live now. I worked for the founders for close to two
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years before we opened the doors of Trinity Hall in Monmouth
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County with 30 young women, all freshmen. It was like a club the
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first year, and then grew the school over five years before I
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departed to move to NBOA, which has been a great experience. Now
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I'm in year eight of this experience, loving every minute
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of the unique work we do to serve a very humble group of
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school leaders here our CFOs and their business office staff and
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HR, when we get to collaborate outside of the business office
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with ATLIS and tech leaders and e 3n and enrollment leaders and
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case and development leaders and NAIS and taps leaders for us,
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it's modeling the important partnerships that need to occur
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on campus. So thank you for your collaboration as always, and
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glad to be having this conversation with you all.
Christina Lewellen:
That's really cool. I agree. It's so
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interesting, how I think that we at the association level do have
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this, not only an opportunity, but almost an imperative, to
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cooperate and show what is possible and the value that can
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come of working together across kind of the traditional silos in
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schools. I would imagine that the business office has changed
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a lot since you first came into independent schools. What are
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some of your observations in that space you started? I mean,
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all those years ago as a teacher and La Crosse, but it sounds
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like you had your hand on. A lot of different aspects of the
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school pretty early in your career, so you've probably seen
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it kind of evolve quite a bit over that time, absolutely.
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And I don't think that's out without the
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support of our associations helping to professionalize and
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elevate the role within schools at NBOA, we like to talk about
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the years leading up to 2008 nine financial crisis being the
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golden age of independent schools. Enrollment was strong.
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Financials were strong. Things were looking up, and then we had
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this major challenge to overcome. A lot of families
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affected by the financial situation. The years to follow
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were a little bit rocky, and took some years for schools to
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regain their footing and build up, and then the pandemic
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happened, and new challenges, definitely, independent schools
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rose to the occasion and showed innovation to move instruction
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online more swiftly than our peers in the market, and again,
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we're in a position of sort of regaining footing through that
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pandemic. Enrollments of schools throughout the country. Change,
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there was a lot of mobility for families that benefited some
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markets and challenged others. The interesting thing too is the
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CFO role and responsibilities and importance and altitude
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within the school change, and actually their titles changed
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along with it. NBOA was founded as the National Business
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Officers Association, and that's because they're all all various
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titles, but almost none of them are business officer. At this
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point, there was a sort of a transition from Business
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Manager, sort of behind the scenes bookkeeping type, to
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Director of Finance in operations over time to Chief
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Financial Officer, and now more and more chief financial and
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operating officer, sort of that dual responsibility role, and
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even folks earning titles related to, you know, assistant
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or associate, head finance and operations. And I'd really just
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titles matter only so much at the same time, it shows the
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elevation of the role of importance in the admin team
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with the board and sort of impacting the long term future
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goals of the school,
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the CFO versus coo title, that's
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something that I understand from my business background, from the
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association background. Can you draw the line of distinction in
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schools? Do people use those sort of interchangeably? Do
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faculty understand the difference? Would tech people
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understand those nuances? And again, I'm certain that, just
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like tech directors, it probably varies from school to school.
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But what are your general observations there in terms of
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the distinction between CFO, Chief Financial Officer and COO
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Chief Operations Officer?
James Palmieri:
Yeah, CFO chief financial officer is way more
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common in our industry, because primarily the job's
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responsibility is to manage and elevate the school's financial
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position and the accounting and tax functions under it. However,
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the role at schools with significant size and scope is a
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really broad portfolio when you consider operations related to
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campus master planning, facilities management,
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enterprise risk management, the portfolio may include
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partnerships with the CIO and tech leader and may include
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partnerships with the Chief Human Resources Officer,
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director of HR. And so there's times when schools feel the
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portfolio has grown too large and therefore aims to make a
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divide. I think the jury is still out on what is the best
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model. And I wouldn't say there's one best model for every
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school. I think it really depends on the school's setup,
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its campus, its facilities, and really the skill sets of the
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folks in the role. Occasionally the portfolio grows too big and
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there's a divide. But for the most part, the CFO, whatever
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title that may be, is overseeing both finance and operations,
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including HR and so the opportunities for impact in a
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school community are large.
Bill Stites:
I think about our CFO COO and the work that she
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does, I'm in awe of what she is able to do, whether it's sitting
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through our construction meetings, and what she
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understands about we talked about master planning, just
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understanding what's involved with that, the conversations
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with architects, getting into the risk management, getting
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into all the other pieces, and having to understand each of
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those distinct areas, and then what everyone needs to know and
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to be doing in each of those areas. I think about that, and I
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think about the roles that Hiram and I sit in, and how that skill
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set develops. And. How you learn those things. And I can tell
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you, my degree is in early childhood education. So the
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number of business and finance courses I've taken over my
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career is a goose egg. Hiram comes from a science background.
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I don't want to suppose Hiram, maybe you have taken some
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finance courses that I'm just not aware of. But I think one of
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the questions that I have, particularly as I talk to people
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that are going through the ALI program at ATLIS that are
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looking to make that step into the tech director's role, is
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understanding what the CFOs that you support do. What do you
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think in your estimation, do tech directors need to know
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either from their CFOs in order to be successful, or what are
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the conversations that we should be having with our CFOs to allow
Bill Stites:
us to be successful, given the breadth of knowledge that they
Bill Stites:
contain?
James Palmieri:
Yeah, I want to attack the first part of that
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question, initially, Bill, which is, how did these folks develop
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this broad skill set? Right? And the reality is, Independent
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School Business Officers don't grow on trees, and they often
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don't come up through independent schools, meaning
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that, unlike many tech directors that have come up through
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education and maybe ed tech and over time, most of our folks
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have entered the business officer profession from other
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industries. It's typically a third or fourth career for these
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folks, and they come in from a variety of ways. It could be for
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profit industry jobs. It could be nonprofit, financial
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leadership jobs. A lot of times it's accounting and auditing,
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some of which then get exposed to independent schools and see
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the value in this profession. Oftentimes, we have folks that
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maybe come down from college and university roles. And so the
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backgrounds of our folks are very diverse, and I don't think
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anyone considers themselves an expert in every silo of their
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job. And so they lean into board members with specific areas of
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expertise. They lean into their network of colleagues in NBOA
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and elsewhere, and then they try to staff up accordingly as
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needed. To the second part of your question, assuming we'd be
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talking about this partnership and relationship, I actually
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looked back at a slide deck I used when presenting at the
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ATLIS Conference in Atlanta, where I gave among some general
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Independent School Business Content, five tips to sort of
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strengthen the partnership between the business officer and
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the tech director at a school. So maybe we could work through
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those a little bit. And I'd love your sort of feedback and banter
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regarding where you think schools are generally doing
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these things well, and maybe some areas of focus that you
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might agree on. I'll start with the first one. I say this from
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the lens of a business officer. Business Officers love to be in
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the know, like heads of school. They don't like surprises
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because they're managing finances, and thus the budget,
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but they're also managing a whole lot of risk, and so the
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first tip is to get on the same page and to take stock. A couple
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of the things I pointed out is what irritates faculty and staff
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the most about technology. You need to know what your people
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are frustrated with, satisfied by, and work together to try to
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create solutions, talking in advance about what were to
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happen if there's a targeted cyber attack. What are other
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independent schools doing with technology that your school
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isn't and sort of be on the same page about some short and long
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term goals?
Christina Lewellen:
I think that's really interesting,
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because obviously understanding so that there's no surprises. I
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would say that probably most tech directors feel that way
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too, right? Like every human feels that way, like surprises
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are problematic, especially in a school when there's so much
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going on on the day to day. So that makes a lot of sense.
Hiram Cuevas:
I would agree with you there, because there's
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nothing worse than all of a sudden realizing you now have a
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new software application that's been introduced by a department
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that you had no idea was now becoming part of your tech
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stack, and you're now supposed to support it and provide the
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financing for it as well, because it was a decision that
Hiram Cuevas:
was made in a vacuum. James, I'm fascinated by the realization of
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the similarities between the CFO COO and the tech director, and
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that no one technically goes to school for these positions, and
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that you are a bit of a unicorn as well. You're developing a
Hiram Cuevas:
great deal of varied skill sets that some of your classes may
Hiram Cuevas:
have touch base on, and others you really have to develop. Up
Hiram Cuevas:
that street cred more than anything else. Tell me about the
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benefit of relationships in the CFO COO role as it relates to
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school culture.
James Palmieri:
Yes, good question. We talk to our
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community of business officers often about the importance of
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getting out of the office, and that could mean different
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things. I think some business officers love to share their
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talents with schools and maybe teach a class or coach a team or
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advise a club, and that is wonderful. But simply walking
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the campus on a regular basis. You know, dining in the dining
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hall, having regular friendly communications with faculty and
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staff and other constituents groups really helps to build
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their trust and respect, because sort of everyone knows that the
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business officer is the primary manager of The schools operating
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budget, and even if there's budget responsibilities
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appropriately dispersed, the school, the CFO and those
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supporting them are relying on those numbers to come together
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in a way in which the school can end the year in a positive
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position. And so we encourage business officers not to be Dr
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No, they get a lot of requests throughout the year about things
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that were unbudgeted for new ideas, new programs. And the
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reality is, not everything can be supported. But try not to
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start from a place of no try to start from a place of learning
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more about the ask and having conversations, including others.
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Ultimately, not everything can happen at once, but I think by
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being out in the community and being clear on the CFOs,
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alignment with the school's mission and greater purpose is
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key to then being a partner to request for additional funding
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versus a yes or no answer, depending on what the bottom
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line looks like. And there's another aspect of that, Hiram it
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is we really encourage CFOs to skill up in regards to
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communicating financials effectively to non financial
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colleagues. We feel that when a faculty and staff have a better
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understanding of the very challenge business model in
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which many of our schools operate as tuition driven
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institutions, there's a little bit more of an understanding
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regarding what decisions are made and why they're made,
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because frankly, these are tough businesses to run, and they're
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not strictly businesses. They are school communities with
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greater purposes. But when we're employing a few 100 people and
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we're serving a few 100 or 1000 students and their families,
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there is a business element to the work that we all do to make
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sure that our schools aren't only thriving in real time, but
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that they are set up for financial sustainability in the
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long run.
Bill Stites:
So just before the podcast, I just came out of one
Bill Stites:
of our administrative council meetings, we get together weekly
Bill Stites:
as a group and discuss a variety of topics, and today was was our
Bill Stites:
CFO the entire time talking about the budget and where we're
Bill Stites:
going to be with that process, going forward, setting tuition
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increases, looking at enrollments, so on and so forth.
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And one of the things that she kind of clued us into during
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that process was a significant increase in the costs of health
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insurance that I think a lot of schools are going to be dealing
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with, I can see people shaking their heads Yes. You just talked
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about the level of transparency and the level of communication
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that needs to go on, and how that impacts the ability to say
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yes or to say no. What are the types of things that a CFO may
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be tracking with regard to items that impact what a school can
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and can't say yes or no to that the average faculty member may
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not necessarily be aware of as it impacts the overall ability
Bill Stites:
for the school to deliver on its mission.
James Palmieri:
Well, I'm going to quickly address the revenue
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side before I jump into the expense side. If we were looking
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at a pie chart, three quarters of that pie chart are typically
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revenues brought in by tuition and fees, right? So we're highly
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tuition dependent organizations. How schools round out
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alternative sources of revenue is key to managing tuition
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increases and the accessibility and affordability of our
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schools, which is a priority, especially in alignment with our
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inclusivity goals in terms of serving families at all
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socioeconomic levels. So the primary alternative sources of
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revenue. Our annual fund giving and annual fund special events
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is a significant contributor to the total revenue pie. When
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schools are fortunate to have an endowment and be able to utilize
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roughly 4% of the return on that endowment to support their
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operating budget that helps not every schools in that position,
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fortunate schools also may have other investments that can be
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used to support operating the last sort of major bucket is the
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auxiliary programs in totality, which may include summer
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programs, before and after school programs, campus
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bookstore, facility rentals, maybe revenue from campus
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housing, those types of things that kind of round out. So the
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more sort of alternative revenue sources the school has, the less
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piece of the pie that tuition and fees take up and really kind
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of helps the business model overall. On the expense side,
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almost everything that comes in from tuition and fees goes right
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out the door to the schools. People, right? We're people
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oriented businesses. We serve people through our people so
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compensating salaries and benefits for all of our full
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time staff, all of our part time staff, all of our coaches and
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other stipends is really our number one lever if a school
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needed to find savings, it's not going to be through field trips
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or basketballs or pencils. It's really going to either be about
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people management or facilities management, and I would loop
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technology into facilities management in the way that we
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are so concerned about our people as we should be right to
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attract and retain top talent, that so much of our expense goes
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in that direction that we don't hold on enough to care For our
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facilities and making sure these big investments we make in new
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facilities and renovated facilities have the dollars to
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support their ongoing maintenance. And so I think
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between people and then facilities, and then we trickle
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down to other expenses that are helpful to manage. You know,
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being fiscally prudent, but top of the list people
Hiram Cuevas:
and facilities. So James, what's interesting is you
Hiram Cuevas:
tickle the memory for me of Jeff shields when he spoke at ATLIS
Hiram Cuevas:
about the gap. And how often do you all discuss the gap within
Hiram Cuevas:
the association and the schools to drive the discussion so that
Hiram Cuevas:
they realize the gap keeps on getting bigger, and what is it
Hiram Cuevas:
that we have to do in order to prevent that gap? Most
Hiram Cuevas:
businesses don't run on a gap. This is just such an unusual
Hiram Cuevas:
environment that education seems to find itself in
James Palmieri:
Absolutely and you know, business officers know
James Palmieri:
the gap well, because they manage the gap, right? We
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actually, me and a few colleagues, we do more speaking
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with non Business Officer groups about the gap to try to educate
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more people on this business model challenge that we have. So
James Palmieri:
trustees, for example, we do a lot of trustee trainings. Heads
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of school. Those that have been in the role for a bit certainly
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understand. But sometimes new heads, this is new information,
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if they've risen up through academic leadership, tech
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leaders, enrollment leaders, etc. And what I would say is, I
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always refer to the double gap. For me, there's two aspects of
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this. The first one comes from the reality that we often don't
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charge what it costs to educate each of our students. And this
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is a pretty simple calculation. If you take your total operating
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budget for the year and divide it by your total enrollment,
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you'll have a cost to educate. What's embedded in that total
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operating may include depreciation. It may include
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debt service. How folks calculate that is dependent on
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what their financials look like. But oftentimes, let's just use
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round numbers. Let's say that's $40,000 oftentimes, a school
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will feel that that number is not palatable to go out to
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market with, and so their sticker price becomes 35,000 or
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38,000 whatever it might be. And it's not that they don't want to
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charge what it costs, but if they look left and right in
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their market, they're thinking, well, this school charges that,
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this school charges that I'm okay being above that one, we'd
James Palmieri:
like to be below that one. It's an unfun game to be playing. So
James Palmieri:
there you go. If you have a $40,000 cost to educate and a
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$35,000 sticker price, 5000 times your total enrollment is
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your gap. To begin with, that could be pretty significant. And
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then you move into mission aligned tuition discounting
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financial aid, primarily, about 85% of our discounting. Need
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based financial aid also is this benefit and therefore accounted
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as an expense, but tuition remission benefits for faculty
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and staff children, we would put in the tuition discounting
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bucket, and also this sort of nebulous merit based aid, you
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know, schools that are using dollars to attract mission
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aligned students and families or unique talents, where they have
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a little bit of a discretionary fund to provide some
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scholarships and merit based aid, which we would say would
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have been a bad word in our industry just 10 to 15 years
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ago, but is being seen more and more now as we compete for
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students and families against other institutions, families
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being more open to negotiate and play. Let's make a deal. You
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know, I got this package from this school, and also what's
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trickling down from colleges and universities with the move
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towards professionalizing college athletics. You know, in
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some schools, getting the right student or the right athlete or
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the right artist at the right time is really important as they
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round out their student body. And so between the two gaps, it
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becomes something rather large for the school to deal with, and
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only so many of them have the annual giving auxiliary
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programs, endowment returns to fill that gap. And so that's the
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real challenge we're facing.
Christina Lewellen:
It's really interesting. I would imagine
Christina Lewellen:
that if I were to ask you what some of the most pressing issues
Christina Lewellen:
or pressures independent schools are facing right now, I would
Christina Lewellen:
imagine that everything you just talked about is in that
Christina Lewellen:
category, because it is a pretty significant challenge. But are
Christina Lewellen:
there other things that in particular, either faculty or
Christina Lewellen:
just employees as a whole, might not be tracking that are issues
Christina Lewellen:
that the business office is thinking about.
James Palmieri:
Yeah, it's funny. We, of course, survey our
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members often to try to understand what's top of mind
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for them. Also, there's other groups out there, for example,
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United educators, which is a large education based insurance
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provider for a lot of our schools, they do a top risks
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report. Year after year, the number one risk to our schools
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is enrollment. If enrollment is where it needs to be, the school
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is generally doing well. When enrollment is low, schools are
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generally struggling. We're always working towards that
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enrollment number. Now, schools can adapt when enrollment is
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down, and that means right sizing their people and right
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sizing their operation to accommodate that lower number
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during a down period, with hopes of getting back on track and
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increasing it during the right period. Second is people. I
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think it's pretty known that the education profession is becoming
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less and less desirable to younger people, and so there's a
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real concern regarding a fight for talent both now and 10 years
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from now. So we're doing a lot of research, and schools are
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doing a lot of thinking about how we compensate our people.
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Historically independent schools, as you know, are
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slightly lower than public school peers in their market,
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which is one problem. The second is we don't utilize our
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independence freely, meaning that we don't have to use the
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same step and Lane compensation systems as those groups. It's
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good for equity purposes, for sure, but essentially it means
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that our workforce, our talent, is being compensated based on
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strictly years they've been a teacher, years they've been a
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teacher at the school and what their degrees attained were
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nothing in those three buckets tell you how well a teacher is
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performing. So I'm not encouraging folks to move to a
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performance based model, but I think those discussions need to
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be had additionally benefits, an inflexible benefit system is no
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longer serving the various generations that are working in
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our schools, and so a lot of our compensation research is about
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trying to build some flexibility in the benefit system so that
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it's working for people at all stages of life. So you know,
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biggest revenue, item enrollment, tuition and fees,
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the biggest expense, item people. But of course, data
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security and cyber risk is certainly on there. You
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mentioned health care premium increases, insurance premiums
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have been significant. Our fiscal year is typically July
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one through June, 30. With. But health care premium increases
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and insurance premium increases are often on a calendar year. So
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whereas we may be conservatively budgeting high for those
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increases, let's say we're plugging the budget 10%
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increase, you could easily get a 15 to 18% increase on the
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medical insurance or sort of business risks insurance, and
James Palmieri:
have to deal with that mid year, which can be a challenge.
Christina Lewellen:
It's always just so much to juggle. It's
Christina Lewellen:
really interesting. I want to pivot for just a minute, because
Christina Lewellen:
one of the things we really wanted to talk to you about is
Christina Lewellen:
this really creative and unique thing that NBOA did, and that is
Christina Lewellen:
that you launched recently this advisory services component of
Christina Lewellen:
the association walk people through that, especially people
Christina Lewellen:
who might not be tracking what that even means. But I'm curious
Christina Lewellen:
why you guys decided to do that, sort of where it came from. I'm
Christina Lewellen:
certain that it bubbled up into some strategy session along the
Christina Lewellen:
way. So tell us a little bit about that.
James Palmieri:
I'll say as things should it really stemmed
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from our current strategic framework in place set forth by
James Palmieri:
the board a few years ago. I will say that plan had elements
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that focused on our community, our programs and resources, the
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industry at large, and then internally, how to make NBOA
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thrive and sustain, and it calls for sort of a big idea. All of
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our ideas have to be mission oriented. It stemmed from the
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fact that over the years, Jeff myself, our colleagues, heads of
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school, would call NBOA during times of need, wanting us to be
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more helpful than we were in a position to be. NBOA, the
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national nonprofit association, is built to serve the many. Our
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memberships have a lot of value, even though folks use those
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elements of membership differently, but we weren't
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really in a position to help schools through individual
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matters, right? And so we would get calls they can't find a
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suitable CFO replacement, or their CFO is departing quickly
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and they want help finding an interim or they can't afford a
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strategic CFO. Is there anyone that's doing part time or
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fractional CFO work? A, B, you know, these tools that you put
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out are great, but we don't really have the time or
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expertise to implement them ourselves. Is there anyone that
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could help us? So what we did, after a lot of research,
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thought, consideration, discussions with the board, is
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launch a subsidiary NBOA advisory services that is wholly
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owned by NBOA, the nonprofit association, with hopes that as
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the business grows and becomes profitable, it will be an
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alternative source of revenue for the association. Having said
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that we recognize that this is built out of the association and
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so member schools who partner with us on searches and projects
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do receive a member discount very related to the project. So
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it's an exciting endeavor. Just to give a little bit more
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context, I've been fortunate to be asked to lead this endeavor,
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and we are not doing this on the backs of NBOA staff who are at
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capacity serving the membership. We have recruited a deep team of
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recently retired Independent School CFOs who are looking for
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this type of part time, fractional interim work. And
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among the group of about 15, they have about 300 years of
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experience in independent school, CFO roles, so trusted
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group on the project based side, I play the role of matchmaker,
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depending on the need of the school what the project is. I
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try to think the right person on our advisory team who might be
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interested in available to support that school. And then
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there's the search side, we are running some great CFO executive
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searches right now. The thought being that we have the unique
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knowledge of the role. We have the network of folks who are
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professionals in this industry and maybe looking for career
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advancement or geographic change, and we have the ability
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to vet CFO candidates for these roles in a way that schools
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aren't really equipped to do. Who's equipped to do that? Maybe
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board members, and then you have to manage sort of overreach,
James Palmieri:
right? So to be a partner to the head and the search committee
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and include the board with our support, is a process that we're
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conducting and really enjoying the work so far, is fun for me,
James Palmieri:
personally, to be back working more closely with schools on a
James Palmieri:
one
Christina Lewellen:
to one basis. You know, it's early days
Christina Lewellen:
yet, but how's everything going? Are schools picking up what
Christina Lewellen:
you're putting down?
James Palmieri:
There was certainly some concern about
James Palmieri:
that before we launched. We put in a lot of effort to entering
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this market, thoughtfully and thankfully, yes, it's resonating
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as we anticipated. Our CFO search work is at capacity at
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the moment. We are running as many we feel that we could do
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well with the infrastructure we have in place. We are working
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with schools all over the country, large and small, day
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and boarding on projects or part time work to support their
James Palmieri:
current needs. So the fun part about this is every engagement
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call that comes in is a little different, the ask is a little
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different, the need is a little different, the area is a little
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different, the school mission is a little different, and so being
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school people that we are, we try to be as custom with our
James Palmieri:
approach as possible. And thankfully, it's proving that
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the industry was looking for this type of help, even though,
James Palmieri:
let me say, there are some great folks out there in the industry
James Palmieri:
that have been doing this work, and those folks will continue to
James Palmieri:
be busy. The need is greater, right? And so by building an
James Palmieri:
advisory with a large team of folks who are natural school
James Palmieri:
financial leaders, it's to make sure that when our member
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schools have a need, or even non member schools, that they have
James Palmieri:
someone to call with an aim to be helpful.
Hiram Cuevas:
And James, what's interesting to me is, I imagine
Hiram Cuevas:
you see probably every color of the rainbow type of need in each
Hiram Cuevas:
of these schools. How often do you spend also educating many of
Hiram Cuevas:
these schools about the importance of the relationship
Hiram Cuevas:
between the business office and the technology department as it
Hiram Cuevas:
relates to the day to day functioning of the school. I
Hiram Cuevas:
think you've got a unique perspective now being on the
Hiram Cuevas:
board here at ATLIS, and what have you learned since you've
Hiram Cuevas:
come on board that you were unaware of that you've been able
Hiram Cuevas:
to bring back to NBOA?
James Palmieri:
Actually, Christina wrote an article in
James Palmieri:
net assets a few years ago called down to the wire, and the
James Palmieri:
crux of that article was about technology's involvement in
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capital projects. So one thing I'll jump into Hiram is the
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importance of including the tech director early on in campus
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master planning and capital projects. Why? Because your
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expertise is super important and needed, both in terms of what
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new technologies are available and needed to serve your
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community in these new facilities or renovated
James Palmieri:
facilities, but also, how are those new technologies going to
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interface with existing technologies on campus I
James Palmieri:
mentioned earlier, Business Officers love to be in the Know,
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while Business Officers love to save time and love to save
James Palmieri:
money. And that article that Christina wrote for us put some
James Palmieri:
data behind the reality that when the tech directors enter
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the picture too late, time could be lost as things need to be
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rethought, and money could be lost as things need to be
James Palmieri:
redone. So I think in terms of managing facilities, operations,
James Palmieri:
major projects. That is a huge one second one I'll call out, is
James Palmieri:
artificial intelligence in two ways. One is, I think if a
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school were to be putting together a small committee to be
James Palmieri:
thinking about AI adoption, AI policy, AI management within a
James Palmieri:
school for adults and for students, both of these
James Palmieri:
individuals should be should have a seat at that table. Tech
James Palmieri:
clearly may be better understanding the technology and
James Palmieri:
what's available to help adults do their work more efficiently
James Palmieri:
and students utilize its capabilities in an appropriate
James Palmieri:
way, whereas the CFO can certainly bring lenses towards
James Palmieri:
risk, inherent risk involved, and how it relates to insurance
James Palmieri:
policies, etc, also the financial investments needed to
James Palmieri:
adopt AI in the right manner for the school. The third piece, we
James Palmieri:
acknowledge that a lot of tech directors come up from within,
James Palmieri:
and so they're managing a lot on their plate. And so I think CFOs
James Palmieri:
bring a lens of long term vision. So partnering to create
James Palmieri:
a technology mission statement, needs, assessment, policies,
James Palmieri:
philosophies, and then sort of creating a long term budget for
James Palmieri:
the resources that are needed, and that's people, hardware,
James Palmieri:
software, replacement cycle, etc, so that we're sort of
James Palmieri:
always managing the tech needs versus managing the expenses as
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they come up.
Bill Stites:
So to your first point, I'm going to put in two
Bill Stites:
shameless plugs, one for your upcoming conference, and two for
Bill Stites:
the fact that Vinnie Vrotny, Jim bologna and I are presenting on
Bill Stites:
the first point that you mentioned, which was involving
Bill Stites:
it. Earl. On in these large scale projects. We did the
Bill Stites:
presentation at the ATLIS conference and submitted it
Bill Stites:
because we thought it would be a good match for NBOA, and we'll
Bill Stites:
be presenting that in about a month or two down in Orlando.
Bill Stites:
And looking forward to that, I remember, just to that very
Bill Stites:
point, we're closing out a large construction project and talking
Bill Stites:
to the GC about that, and hearing from him as much as the
Bill Stites:
benefit that it has for the school about involving tech
Bill Stites:
early, and what he was able to share about schools and what it
Bill Stites:
cost them to involve them later on in the game is not
Bill Stites:
insignificant.
Hiram Cuevas:
Yeah. Conduit. What conduit you don't need? No
Hiram Cuevas:
conduit.
Christina Lewellen:
Isn't that cool. That a topic that
Christina Lewellen:
resonated at the ATLIS conference, then also lands its
Christina Lewellen:
spot at the NBOA conference. I think that is a perfect example
Christina Lewellen:
that speaks to how our organizations collaborate and
Christina Lewellen:
our communities collaborate. So that's really cool, James,
Christina Lewellen:
before we run out of time. I also know that you were very
Christina Lewellen:
sweet and committed to this relationship when you stepped
Christina Lewellen:
into a vacant board position on the Atlas board, you sort of got
Christina Lewellen:
thrust into the mix of the whole thing. We're so grateful to have
Christina Lewellen:
you, as we mentioned earlier in the show, tell us a little bit
Christina Lewellen:
about your experience on the Atlas board, and even though you
Christina Lewellen:
were kind of chucked into it, you know, we've got open
Christina Lewellen:
nominations going on. We're looking for our always looking
Christina Lewellen:
for the next crop of board members. So what would you say
Christina Lewellen:
about that
James Palmieri:
my observation of the Atlas board is not unlike
James Palmieri:
my observation of the NBOA board, in that folks are very
James Palmieri:
missioned focused, and yet very friendly towards one another. It
James Palmieri:
is a tight group of individuals that values each other,
James Palmieri:
professionally and personally through the relationship
James Palmieri:
developed at ATLIS. My take is that these individuals want that
James Palmieri:
for all ATLIS members, meaning that trying to create a
James Palmieri:
community where in what could be a lonely role, a unique role on
James Palmieri:
campus, that you have a national network of peers that could be
James Palmieri:
relied on as thought partners to navigate situations and
James Palmieri:
decisions at your school, but also to network, to learn from,
James Palmieri:
to grow with. And I think that's just elevated at the board
James Palmieri:
level, but I don't think that hope and desire for the
James Palmieri:
membership is lost. That for me, is what sits in every meeting. I
James Palmieri:
hear you talk about how passionate you are at your
James Palmieri:
schools and the impact you're having, and the general
James Palmieri:
consensus I take away, is you want that for all of your peers,
James Palmieri:
and so a lot of the decision making, a lot of the program
James Palmieri:
planning to support Christina and her dynamic team really
James Palmieri:
comes from a place of goodness and sharing, which is a real
James Palmieri:
positive. I will also share that all of us, Hiram bill, others
James Palmieri:
involved with the board, you make our work easy because you
James Palmieri:
are a fantastic Association leader. You have a fantastic
James Palmieri:
staff. You set us up for success so that our time together is
James Palmieri:
strategic, generative and efficient. So we appreciate that
James Palmieri:
very much.
Christina Lewellen:
Thank you so much. Yeah, I will second the
Christina Lewellen:
motion on the staff. I have a pretty incredible crew. So
Christina Lewellen:
James, when we started this pod, as you were joining us, we were
Christina Lewellen:
talking about resolutions or goals for 2026 here we sit in
Christina Lewellen:
the early part of the year. So tell me a little bit about what
Christina Lewellen:
you are excited about for 2026 before we let you go on with
Christina Lewellen:
your day.
James Palmieri:
I would say on the professional front, it is
James Palmieri:
moving from startup phase of NBOA advisory services to
James Palmieri:
closing out some really important projects successfully
James Palmieri:
and aiming to build some infrastructure to allow us to
James Palmieri:
grow and serve more schools. I think that is the goal. I think
James Palmieri:
that will also help to create some additional work life
James Palmieri:
balance in the process. But this isn't my first startup, and I
James Palmieri:
know what it takes, and I'm totally committed to its
James Palmieri:
success, because what we're doing is really helping a lot of
James Palmieri:
individual schools in ways that NBOA, the association, couldn't
James Palmieri:
do previously. On the personal front, I align with what Bill
James Palmieri:
shared. I have two daughters. They're 14 and 11. I have an
James Palmieri:
eighth grader this year, so it's going to be fun to watch her
James Palmieri:
graduate with her peers and move on to high school and new
James Palmieri:
beginnings. I think that's the most significant thing in our
James Palmieri:
household in the year ahead.
Christina Lewellen:
I love that. And obviously, you guys know
Christina Lewellen:
I've got all the girls, James, so if you need some advice,
Christina Lewellen:
you're coming into the thick of it, my friend. But I will say
Christina Lewellen:
that at the other end of all the crazy teenage years, Bill and
Christina Lewellen:
Hiram and I have adult kids, and last night, we cracked open the
Christina Lewellen:
first. Hokito beverage of the season, and so it's so great to
Christina Lewellen:
have them back home from college. So you're just really
Christina Lewellen:
coming into the best era, for sure. So I want to offer you my
Christina Lewellen:
deepest congratulations on NBOA Advisory Services. I'm really
Christina Lewellen:
excited for you. I'm really excited for the organization. I
Christina Lewellen:
know you're a busy guy right now. So thank you for spending
Christina Lewellen:
this time with us and joining us on the pod to tell us a little
Christina Lewellen:
bit about everything you're
James Palmieri:
up to. My pleasure. Thank you all for the
James Palmieri:
opportunity.
Peter Frank:
This has been talking technology with ATLIS,
Peter Frank:
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