Building IT Infrastructure and Empathy with Buck Crockett
Presented by:
Buck Crockett, Director of Technology at Almaden Country Day School, joins the podcast to discuss his unique path from wilderness therapy to EdTech leadership. The conversation explores managing Mac OS application frameworks, the philosophy of age-appropriate screen time, and the critical role of IT in campus construction. Buck also shares insights on "peeling back the layers" of support tickets to solve human problems with empathy.
Transcript
Peter Frank:
Dan, welcome to Talking technology with ATLIS,
Peter Frank:
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
Peter Frank:
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Peter Frank:
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
Peter Frank:
special guests from the Independent School community,
Peter Frank:
and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Peter Frank:
And now please welcome your host. Christina Lewellen,
Christina Lewellen:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to
Christina Lewellen:
talking technology with ATLIS. This is Christina Lewellen. I'm
Christina Lewellen:
the president and CEO of the Association of technology
Christina Lewellen:
leaders in independent schools.
Bill Stites:
And I'm Bill Stites, the Director of
Bill Stites:
Technology at Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New
Bill Stites:
Jersey,
Hiram Cuevas:
and I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of
Hiram Cuevas:
Information Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher
Hiram Cuevas:
school in Richmond, Virginia.
Christina Lewellen:
Hello, gentlemen. How are you today?
Hiram Cuevas:
Glorious, fabulous. Well, that's good to
Christina Lewellen:
hear. I'm slightly fabulous myself. I know
Christina Lewellen:
that our podcast listeners are not going to be able to see
Christina Lewellen:
this. Maybe we'll have to drop this in the chat. But I was
Christina Lewellen:
thinking about you guys this morning, because next week, I
Christina Lewellen:
head off for my international competition in my barbershop
Christina Lewellen:
harmony singing organization,
Bill Stites:
and you need us to come. Wait, where's my ticket?
Bill Stites:
Are we on stage? Where's the bedazzle?
Christina Lewellen:
Okay, this went off the rails. No, you are
Christina Lewellen:
not on stage. There is a live stream, so maybe what I can do
Christina Lewellen:
is I will gift to you the live stream access so that you can
Christina Lewellen:
see the video. But what was interesting is, I'm getting the
Christina Lewellen:
packing list together. I have a million things to juggle as a
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past champion. I also have to perform on the past champion
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show. I sing in a chorus. I have four kids that I'm responsible
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for, two of whom are my daughters and then two other
Christina Lewellen:
college kids who come with us to these competitions. So I'm
Christina Lewellen:
tracking like everybody's costumes, everybody's
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everything. And I pulled out the sparkle jacket today, yes, to
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make sure that I had that outfit pulled together so the sequin
Christina Lewellen:
jacket, she is dry cleaned and ready to go. I did my fit check
Christina Lewellen:
and I sent it
Bill Stites:
to time out. Yeah, you got to keep yours.
Christina Lewellen:
Oh, I did get to keep mine. I was the
Christina Lewellen:
original owner.
Bill Stites:
I'm feeling the pain. I know seriously. I mean,
Bill Stites:
it's not like we didn't put in the effort. I
Christina Lewellen:
have them. They're in the Atlas storage
Christina Lewellen:
bins here in the office in Virginia. So I mean, I have the
Christina Lewellen:
tuxedo sparkle jackets ready for you guys to be reinvigorated and
Christina Lewellen:
brought out at key moments in ATLIS future. I will never get
Christina Lewellen:
rid of them. It's probably the best $10 I ever spent on Amazon.
Bill Stites:
I think we all need to wear them on a podcast once.
Bill Stites:
And that's the video that we use. That would be awesome.
Bill Stites:
That's
Hiram Cuevas:
the 100th episode. There you go. Okay.
Christina Lewellen:
Oh, you guys, I'll ship them. Well, in
Christina Lewellen:
any event, first I have to wear mine for my contest, once it's
Christina Lewellen:
dry cleaned, then I can wear it for the podcast.
Unknown:
All the best to you there and Bill, we got to get
Unknown:
red shoes.
Christina Lewellen:
I did have red shoes on those that day that
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my quartet was at our annual conference. For those of you who
Christina Lewellen:
are completely lost, Bill and Hiram dressed up like my quartet
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with the sequin tuxedo jackets and came on stage you did not
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have my red shoes on. Those are my favorites. They're very
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comfortable. So those will be broken out next week for round
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one of the Quartet semi finals. I'll be wearing those next week
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too. I like a
Bill Stites:
smaller heel, though.
Hiram Cuevas:
I want to see Bill in pumps.
Christina Lewellen:
Okay, all right, so that's it on that. You
Christina Lewellen:
guys always have to take it that one level. I think Bill is high
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on his candy corn, which is another thing we should just
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mention. Last year at this time, we were talking about candy corn
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and how vile it is. Last year on the podcast, no and Bill never
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forgets anything. So he's been dropping into our chat, our text
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chat, these vile pictures of candy corn, which is essentially
Christina Lewellen:
wax, sugared wax. I
Unknown:
love candy corn, and I must admit, it reminds me of my
Unknown:
mother in law, who has passed, but she used to love it as well.
Unknown:
And I'd have a little bowl of candy corn in the house, and I'd
Unknown:
come back from work and it would be gone, and she would gesture,
Unknown:
she'd be like, I'm sorry, edible.
Bill Stites:
I have candy corn after I have a lot of good like
Bill Stites:
tacos or things with a lot of cilantro on it
Hiram Cuevas:
that also tastes like soap. Yeah, I'm not a big
Hiram Cuevas:
cilantro fan. Bill, you're like, the brother,
Christina Lewellen:
I swear that. I just never wanted you
Christina Lewellen:
are always here under my skin. Brother. I love it.
Hiram Cuevas:
And our poor guest has no idea what he's gotten
Hiram Cuevas:
himself into.
Christina Lewellen:
I know poor guest.
Bill Stites:
He's like, Oh my god, am I ever going to come on
Bill Stites:
this show? What's going on?
Christina Lewellen:
Let's go ahead and welcome our guest,
Christina Lewellen:
because now we have two things that we need to address with the
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guest. I feel like we need, like, some kind of a referee or
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tiebreaker. Please welcome Buck Crockett to the podcast. So glad
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to have you here. Sorry for these crazy guys. Guys, but
Christina Lewellen:
Buck, we're glad to have you here with us today. You are the
Christina Lewellen:
director of technology for the Almaden Country Day School out
Christina Lewellen:
in San Jose, California. How are you
Buck Crockett:
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on and
Buck Crockett:
bringing in the Halloween food spirit with your candy corn
Buck Crockett:
antics. It's been fun to listen to so far.
Christina Lewellen:
Okay, so how do you feel about the candy
Christina Lewellen:
corn? That's number one.
Buck Crockett:
I mean, I haven't thought about how it's made.
Buck Crockett:
Sugar is a big vice for me, and I just try to pretend it doesn't
Buck Crockett:
exist. If I was that kid in that room seeing that bowl of candy
Buck Crockett:
corn, yet it would probably be gone by the time the person who
Buck Crockett:
put it in there returned.
Hiram Cuevas:
Love it. Thank you. And did you ever make fangs
Hiram Cuevas:
out of them?
Buck Crockett:
I mean, I did all the candy corn play with, like,
Buck Crockett:
vampires and stuff? Yeah, it was a good time see what
Hiram Cuevas:
you're missing. Christina, you're just missing
Hiram Cuevas:
out.
Christina Lewellen:
I feel as if I'm missing nothing. Hiram, so
Christina Lewellen:
number two, buck is, are you a cilantro person? I'm one of
Christina Lewellen:
those people where, like, it tastes like soap, like
Buck Crockett:
it's, oh yeah, I don't have that gene, thank
Buck Crockett:
goodness. Yeah, it's great. It's amazing.
Christina Lewellen:
All right. Well, getting on to the
Christina Lewellen:
important topics at hand, Buck, we've invited you here today.
Christina Lewellen:
We're excited to talk to you a little bit about how you bring
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your version of technology leadership to your school. And
Christina Lewellen:
you know, my understanding is that you manage a pretty diverse
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and complex IT infrastructure out there in the heart of
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Silicon Valley. So let's start by having you tell us a little
Christina Lewellen:
bit about your school, because we would love to learn a little
Christina Lewellen:
bit more about Almaden Country Day School. How long have you
Christina Lewellen:
been there? What's it like? What kind of
Buck Crockett:
students are a pre K through eighth grade
Buck Crockett:
school, so four to 14 independent. One thing that
Buck Crockett:
makes us unique relative to a lot of other day schools is we
Buck Crockett:
have a program called the Learning Center, and that's for
Buck Crockett:
we call it the TLC. It's got a cool ring to that, and that's
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for students with language based learning differences, and it's a
Buck Crockett:
neat, integrated program. But you know, the idea for those
Buck Crockett:
students is, when they graduate, they have a sense of seeing
Buck Crockett:
themselves as successful as learners. So it's been neat to
Buck Crockett:
see that kind of grow in the last five years. We've started
Buck Crockett:
that about midway through my time here, and I'm currently on
Buck Crockett:
my 11th loop around the pattern of a school year here, we've
Buck Crockett:
also done a lot of commercial building in the last five years,
Buck Crockett:
and then just going through the wave of the pandemic. That was
Buck Crockett:
pretty intense for me professionally, as I imagine it
Buck Crockett:
was for a lot of people who do what I do in schools, going
Buck Crockett:
through the process of making learning online and then trying
Buck Crockett:
to get everybody back on campus learning as fast as possible,
Buck Crockett:
which for us, was like simulcast. So those are a mix of
Buck Crockett:
people online and at school learning through Zoom video.
Buck Crockett:
That's what we called simulcast. So those are some thoughts that
Buck Crockett:
come to mind when I think about my time here over the last five
Buck Crockett:
years, specifically, and our school in general,
Christina Lewellen:
that's really awesome. So the learning
Christina Lewellen:
center program you said that is for language based learning
Christina Lewellen:
differences. Can you give me some examples of what that means
Christina Lewellen:
for the community where you're located?
Buck Crockett:
Yeah, it's been really, really good for our
Buck Crockett:
school. So a lot of our students there have dyslexia. I actually
Buck Crockett:
have dyslexia, so that gives me this like, deeper meaning of my
Buck Crockett:
work. I feel like I'm supporting it. Just need to be on the
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support side of that equation as an adult with that neuro
Buck Crockett:
difference. But for those kids, specifically, there's not a lot
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of programs that have this Orton Gillingham curriculum approach
Buck Crockett:
west of the Mississippi there's like one in Kansas. There's a
Buck Crockett:
lot on the east coast of the United States. So that's what we
Buck Crockett:
do. And we also, you know, as I said, this integrated model,
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those students have a one to four ratio for their, you know,
Buck Crockett:
mostly literacy instructions. And I'm not an expert at this,
Buck Crockett:
but I kind of know what it looks like. And then for all their
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enrichments, everything else, they're with the general
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population. And so what that's done for our community is it's
Buck Crockett:
just increased our I don't say the word diversity, equity,
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inclusion, we use belonging. That's great for our belonging.
Buck Crockett:
Our community has changed for the better since we've started
Buck Crockett:
that program, and it's helped with our enrollment, and it's
Buck Crockett:
helped us all be better educators for the you know, I
Buck Crockett:
think the employees who work here as teachers, I
Christina Lewellen:
love that. And how did you come into this
Christina Lewellen:
role? Tell us a little bit about your background. Yeah.
Buck Crockett:
So my background is pretty non linear. I feel
Buck Crockett:
like that is maybe common in the tech director space. There may
Buck Crockett:
be now, but I, to my knowledge, when I started this, there
Buck Crockett:
wasn't like a college degree, like tech director college
Buck Crockett:
degree. So I did my undergrad in environmental studies, and then
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I'm like a minor in geology, actually, way back when, and
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when I graduated, it was like in the wake. Of the Great
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Recession, and there was just no jobs there. I was already
Buck Crockett:
working as, like an outdoor professional, an outdoor guide,
Buck Crockett:
doing what I would say a lot of people classify as, like extreme
Buck Crockett:
support, sort of guiding, like ice climbing, rock climbing,
Buck Crockett:
white water kayak and stuff like that. And that translated to me
Buck Crockett:
working actually wilderness therapy. And then from doing
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that, I actually switched and went back to school to become
Buck Crockett:
like a special education teacher, and then I got a
Buck Crockett:
master's in teacher leadership. I was living in Colorado at the
Buck Crockett:
time. I got those degrees at Western State Colorado
Buck Crockett:
University. I taught at a couple schools in Colorado, one in
Buck Crockett:
Boulder, one in Denver, Denver, south. And then I actually went
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to Alaska, way out in the bush for a year, which was a wild
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experience in this tiny village of 400 Yupik people called
Buck Crockett:
kelseag, Alaska on the Kuskokwim River. And I was there for 10
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months, and I learned a whole lot about their culture and how
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different schools can look in the United States. I knew kind
Buck Crockett:
of going into that year, I wanted to get into ed tech, so I
Buck Crockett:
was doing a lot of self study that year, basically putting
Buck Crockett:
myself through, like, a computer science degree, kind of self
Buck Crockett:
study style. After that, I moved to Silicon Valley and started
Buck Crockett:
taking some night classes at the community college, kind of short
Buck Crockett:
my knowledge and just make sure I was like, on the right track,
Buck Crockett:
and then applying to tech jobs while working as, like a private
Buck Crockett:
teacher for a family up the peninsula. And then one thing
Buck Crockett:
led to another.
Christina Lewellen:
What sparked that tech thing? Oh, that's a
Buck Crockett:
great question. The trigger for that was, you
Buck Crockett:
know, my first year working as a special education teacher, I
Buck Crockett:
realized like I had a knack for the tech support within my
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elementary school teacher community, and I enjoyed it. I
Buck Crockett:
enjoyed helping other special education teachers adopt Google
Buck Crockett:
Apps and learn to use Gmail, learn to use Google documents
Buck Crockett:
more than I enjoyed writing an IEP. I enjoyed being a teacher
Buck Crockett:
of adults on the technology side more. And by my second year, I
Buck Crockett:
just kind of had this realization, like, whoa. I'm
Buck Crockett:
actually not that happy doing this job, but I want to, you
Buck Crockett:
know, keep my foot in the education space. It brings a lot
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of meaning to me being in a community where we're working to
Buck Crockett:
educate our future generations. So by October, my second year in
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the classroom, I was like, Oh no, this isn't for me. I still
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had like, a year left in my master's, but I realized, like,
Buck Crockett:
there's this whole like, ecosystem of Ed Tech, and at
Buck Crockett:
that time, I actually didn't even know Independent Schools
Buck Crockett:
existed. It wasn't until I got to San Jose that I realized
Buck Crockett:
that, like, there's this whole other world of how schools are
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operated, and that was really neat to explore. I think I'm
Buck Crockett:
very much an independent school technology leader. Do you think
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the ways in which we can be successful and in the ways that
Buck Crockett:
we struggle work well for my leadership style,
Bill Stites:
I'm curious you said you're very much an
Bill Stites:
independent school Ed Tech coordinator, Tech coordinator,
Bill Stites:
in what way, as compared to your time in public school. Like,
Bill Stites:
what do you see as the big differentiators there?
Buck Crockett:
I worked in three very different schools, and so I
Buck Crockett:
realized, like, public schools are very different, but the pain
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points in my second year, like, this was the biggest district in
Buck Crockett:
Colorado, and I'm not going to name it by name, but I was
Buck Crockett:
trying to run this software program called Alex, which is
Buck Crockett:
still around so I could get this really good assessment data on
Buck Crockett:
my students who you know, had specific learning disabilities
Buck Crockett:
in math, and the hardware I had to run it on was so, so bad.
Buck Crockett:
Remember when laptops were like, the size of, like textbooks,
Buck Crockett:
when textbooks weren't online, like that big? So not like the
Buck Crockett:
size of like they sit on a desk by themselves, but pretty big,
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and they just couldn't run this web application. And the more I
Buck Crockett:
tried to get new hardware, I felt like I was in an
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oppositional relationship with my administration when I was
Buck Crockett:
just trying to get computers that would work for the
Buck Crockett:
students, and then the computer I was issued was in such bad
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shape that I was trying to, like, do my IEP paperwork. They
Buck Crockett:
just didn't have the processing power to run the web
Buck Crockett:
application. The Ram wasn't there. And so I'd bring in a
Buck Crockett:
personal Mac, and I would like, patch into an Ethernet port. And
Buck Crockett:
so I got chewed out once for doing that, and then they
Buck Crockett:
brought me in the second time, like their Ted tech person told
Buck Crockett:
my boss. And they're like, if you do this again, like, we're
Buck Crockett:
not going to renew you. And I was like, I'm just trying to,
Buck Crockett:
like, get my job done. It was those experience that put kind
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of a bad taste in my mouth. I didn't feel supported as a
Buck Crockett:
teacher, and when I joined an admin team, I never forgot that
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every day I come to work in this independent school, and I never
Buck Crockett:
want a teacher to feel like I felt in those moments. I want
Buck Crockett:
them to have the best software and hardware we can afford for
Buck Crockett:
them to do their job. I'm incredibly passionate about
Buck Crockett:
that. Being in an independent school environment where my boss
Buck Crockett:
is the CFO, it's a lot easier of a conversation to have. We. Have
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a much closer relationship. We work in the on the same campus
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for the first few years. We're, like, in the same building, but
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now I'm like, 32nd walk away in the larger, you know, urban
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district I was in, like, I'd have to go to, like, a district
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office to, like, talk to higher ups. Then I also feel really
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supported by our Head of School, who's not my boss, but I could,
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you know, open door policy there, like, I can go talk to
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them. We're all in alignment. It's not a fight like, oh, we
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need to get this for the teachers. Like they understand.
Buck Crockett:
And in years where cash may not be available, it's not a
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question of, like, Okay, we can't do this because it's not
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available. It's like, How can I help make this possible? Like,
Buck Crockett:
what do we need to do, from a business strategy perspective,
Buck Crockett:
to get these tools for these teachers so that they feel
Buck Crockett:
supported in the technology they're using in the classroom
Buck Crockett:
to do their job. That's the difference.
Christina Lewellen:
That's pretty cool. Because I think
Christina Lewellen:
most tech directors are perceived as being the no
Christina Lewellen:
person, and now here you are saying that you're the yes
Christina Lewellen:
person, that you're trying to get it
Buck Crockett:
done. Oh, absolutely, I'm very much a yes
Buck Crockett:
person. I mean, there's times where it's like, yes might be
Buck Crockett:
maybe, right? You know, we hire good teachers, and they make
Buck Crockett:
good pitches about how this piece of technology is going to
Buck Crockett:
grow their program. So I'm just giving them a tool that's going
Buck Crockett:
to impute value, but I also have to do it in a way that it's
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scalable, so that the care and feeding of whatever application
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or piece of hardware we're giving them, if we do scale that
Buck Crockett:
to our wider community, that we could do that without, you know,
Buck Crockett:
having to add a lot of FTE on the support side. So those
Buck Crockett:
conversations happen too, but we do our basics Well, I mean, one
Buck Crockett:
technology has just changed so much from when I was a special
Buck Crockett:
education teacher, close to 15 years ago. But the other piece
Buck Crockett:
is we just have great technology. We're very fortunate
Buck Crockett:
to have built our business around that, around making sure
Buck Crockett:
teachers and students have access to that those tools. I
Hiram Cuevas:
think you're the first guest that actually had
Hiram Cuevas:
mentioned. You know, when we deploy an initiative or we
Hiram Cuevas:
expand some technology, the conversations surrounding the
Hiram Cuevas:
support of said pilot program in terms of an FTE, I tell you,
Hiram Cuevas:
it's fascinating, and talking to schools and recognizing you
Hiram Cuevas:
don't hear that component of the conversation, I think internally
Hiram Cuevas:
within IT departments, they say that, but I've never actually
Hiram Cuevas:
had anybody articulate it on the pod. So I appreciate you sharing
Hiram Cuevas:
that with the community, because oftentimes, I think of Bill has
Hiram Cuevas:
said this, we are a lot like the maintenance department,
Hiram Cuevas:
facilities department. We keep things running in the
Hiram Cuevas:
background. Nobody ever complains until it isn't
Hiram Cuevas:
working. And you look at the number of buildings that get put
Hiram Cuevas:
up in all these different schools, and they never
Hiram Cuevas:
necessarily increase the facilities management side of
Hiram Cuevas:
the house in terms of staffing. The same is true with it. We add
Hiram Cuevas:
all of these new initiatives, but there's rarely a
Hiram Cuevas:
conversation about, well, how much support do we now need to
Hiram Cuevas:
support all of these new systems, or all this new
Hiram Cuevas:
equipment that we have just deployed on our camps. I don't
Hiram Cuevas:
know if it was intentional or not on your part, but I thank
Hiram Cuevas:
you for sharing that. And it really struck me as we need to
Hiram Cuevas:
be cognizant of that as an association as well, that with
Hiram Cuevas:
growth, we need to have a commensurate conversation about
Hiram Cuevas:
what is needed in order to support all of these systems?
Buck Crockett:
Oh, absolutely. One thing I've learned related
Buck Crockett:
to that topic. So this concept of, what does it take, from a
Buck Crockett:
productivity standpoint, for an IT team to support a fleet of
Buck Crockett:
devices, or say, 200 software licenses of this latest software
Buck Crockett:
as a service app? You know, it's when you get in those, like
Buck Crockett:
school wide numbers that that question is very relevant. In my
Buck Crockett:
first few years, I thought that I could just go into a meeting
Buck Crockett:
and show some spreadsheets and data and that people would
Buck Crockett:
understand it. And what I've realized now definitely in the
Buck Crockett:
last, like post pandemic years, sometimes the community as a
Buck Crockett:
whole kind of has to take a shot at something that, like the
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numbers say, like, maybe the numbers say you don't have the
Buck Crockett:
productivity to support it, and you got to take the shot anyway,
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and kind of go through that growth experience as a
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community, and then realize, okay, we got to scale back this
Buck Crockett:
app, or change the way we use it, or replace it with something
Buck Crockett:
we can care and feed for. And then the community as a whole
Buck Crockett:
goes through that learning experience, and that can be a
Buck Crockett:
lot more powerful than me going into a meeting and saying, like,
Buck Crockett:
Okay, here's how long it takes to do this one time in minutes.
Buck Crockett:
And if we multiply that by x amount of devices or licenses,
Buck Crockett:
it's going to take this many hours each school year. So we
Buck Crockett:
need this much. FTE, for a leadership team that's not as
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powerful in my experience, is sometimes going through that as
Buck Crockett:
a community, you just grow as a community and work more
Buck Crockett:
effectively after you go through those experiences.
Bill Stites:
One of the things that you said is you want to be
Bill Stites:
the person that can say yes often. So in. Today's
Bill Stites:
environment, how do you say yes, given the amount of vetting that
Bill Stites:
we need to do, specifically with everything going on with AI and
Bill Stites:
the different ways in which these companies are using the
Bill Stites:
information and the data that we're putting into them, how do
Bill Stites:
you get to say yes often when we've now have to deal with that
Bill Stites:
vetting level that you've talked about, and as you were talking
Bill Stites:
just there about getting the community involved in
Bill Stites:
understanding those things, I'm particularly interested in that
Bill Stites:
part of it, if that comes up,
Buck Crockett:
absolutely so community components, I would
Buck Crockett:
say, is partnership with Parents, especially in grade
Buck Crockett:
levels where Tech's at home. So there's a vetting process there.
Buck Crockett:
How is this going to be managed in the home environment? And
Buck Crockett:
then the partnership with the teachers, everybody on the
Buck Crockett:
education team, the administration, how are they
Buck Crockett:
supporting a teacher who may struggle implementing this new
Buck Crockett:
technology? I'll start it from the perspective of, how do I
Buck Crockett:
conceptualize this technology? And a couple weeks ago, I went
Buck Crockett:
to the Bay Area Leadership Exchange, then ATLIS put that on
Buck Crockett:
if you go to their website with Ed Tech recruiting, and then
Buck Crockett:
software as a service company knowing technologies, it was
Buck Crockett:
really neat. I had to hang out with a bunch of people who do
Buck Crockett:
what I do for a day and talk shop. I actually came away from
Buck Crockett:
that with a different framework. So I was thinking probably too
Buck Crockett:
algorithmically about vetting apps and AI before that, and now
Buck Crockett:
I'm much more thinking, Okay, well, what's my philosophy and
Buck Crockett:
what does it mean for students to be a learner in an AI
Buck Crockett:
environment? Are we doing things as a learning community to
Buck Crockett:
cultivate that philosophy, right? Are we partnering with
Buck Crockett:
students and asking them, like, hey, how do you think you should
Buck Crockett:
be using Gemini or whatever new browser that can automate tasks
Buck Crockett:
for you, also asking the question, how do you think we
Buck Crockett:
should use it as teachers or as administrators, letting those
Buck Crockett:
answers kind of guide our process a little bit, and we're
Buck Crockett:
not going to deviate from our mission like that's rock solid.
Buck Crockett:
So we'd have those conversations through the lens of our mission.
Buck Crockett:
You know, our core values as an educational institution, that's
Buck Crockett:
a philosophy framework. But there's also this other side of,
Buck Crockett:
how do we keep kids safe online when we can't control the pace
Buck Crockett:
of the new applications that are dropping, right? You know, I had
Buck Crockett:
a parent bring this up in a conversation yesterday,
Buck Crockett:
actually, who works in Internet security? I think he works at a
Buck Crockett:
company like Sophos or like a firewall company. It could be
Buck Crockett:
barracuda, I'm not 100% sure, but the concept was allow only
Buck Crockett:
frameworks at the application level for Mac OS computers. Our
Buck Crockett:
MDM right now is Jamf. We can't do that natively with them.
Buck Crockett:
There are other tools out there that I want to explore, but I'm
Buck Crockett:
wondering if that will be an important tool in the vetting as
Buck Crockett:
we kind of tune up how we vet products in the AI landscape,
Buck Crockett:
we're one to one Mac for all middle school or Chromebook.
Buck Crockett:
It's on that operating system that's easier to manage at the
Buck Crockett:
application level, but not as much on the Mac OS side. What
Buck Crockett:
I'm seeing more is, you know, a student will give VPN software
Buck Crockett:
through like an alternate account on a browser and bypass
Buck Crockett:
the filter to get an AI application running on their
Buck Crockett:
computer, to use it in the way they want to use it. So, you
Buck Crockett:
know, thinking, Okay, what steps we need to do to stop that
Buck Crockett:
before it starts? And that is, in a way, that's kind of
Buck Crockett:
distracting me from the vetting process. But there's also, I
Buck Crockett:
feel like we're in a spot where the apps are coming out so fast
Buck Crockett:
that I'm lately, I've been playing a little bit more whack
Buck Crockett:
a mole than like, Oh, hey, there's this new project. Let's
Buck Crockett:
implement something form our product. Let's implement a
Buck Crockett:
formal vetting process for it so we can see how we can equitably
Buck Crockett:
and responsibly use it in our classrooms.
Hiram Cuevas:
So buck, if we could take a step back for a
Hiram Cuevas:
moment, you mentioned something that I myself am familiar with,
Hiram Cuevas:
which is the framework issue at the firewall with respects to
Hiram Cuevas:
Jamf. And there may be other tech people here who don't know
Hiram Cuevas:
the answer to that question or really understand what that
Hiram Cuevas:
means. Could you help tease that out for us to see what exactly
Hiram Cuevas:
is the issue that you were wrestling with,
Buck Crockett:
absolutely so the end goal is, you know, we want
Buck Crockett:
to have complete control over a student device, and so the
Buck Crockett:
Chromebooks the simple model. So imagine a Chromebook. It just
Buck Crockett:
runs Chrome, and then in your Google Admin Console, you're
Buck Crockett:
controlling that Chrome web browser, so that really the only
Buck Crockett:
account A student can log in there with is the school
Buck Crockett:
account, which is going to be like their account. And so you
Buck Crockett:
can keep it a pretty safe sandbox, and you can block
Buck Crockett:
things from like extensions that aren't approved from being
Buck Crockett:
installed, and you can block things like the Chrome Web
Buck Crockett:
Store, so you can get a lot of control over that much simpler
Buck Crockett:
device. And. That simpler operating system on the Mac OS
Buck Crockett:
side of things we don't have as much control with our management
Buck Crockett:
software, which in this case is Jamf, and there are others out
Buck Crockett:
there, but there are none to my knowledge. And this really goes
Buck Crockett:
back to Apple's design of their operating system and the way
Buck Crockett:
they allow companies to make management software to manage
Buck Crockett:
fleets of max at scale to at the application level. So imagine
Buck Crockett:
anything that's running as an application on that computer. So
Buck Crockett:
that could be any other web browser, that could be any other
Buck Crockett:
like, say, VPN software that could be streaming software you
Buck Crockett:
know your Spotify that you can control in an allow only design.
Buck Crockett:
You say only these three apps can run. For example, Chrome
Buck Crockett:
GarageBand and iMovie. Those are just like three random ones,
Buck Crockett:
right? That are on the Mac OS and then anything else, whether
Buck Crockett:
it's being run off an SD card that's plugged into the vice
Buck Crockett:
whether it's air dropped into the Downloads directory, however
Buck Crockett:
it gets there, it won't run. So that's the allow only framework
Buck Crockett:
at the application level in a Mac OS environment, and that's
Buck Crockett:
what I'm exploring. Okay? So it's that is different than the
Buck Crockett:
filtering at the firewall level, filter at the firewall level or
Buck Crockett:
preventing administrative access at the computer level, right,
Buck Crockett:
right? And I think this is good practice for us, and you know,
Buck Crockett:
I'd recommend it for any school, really, is you keep your user
Buck Crockett:
account standard so that people can't install any software they
Buck Crockett:
want. But that doesn't stop people from running software
Buck Crockett:
outside of the Applications folder or in another browser.
Buck Crockett:
That's the other thing. Web browsers have just changed so
Buck Crockett:
much in the last three years, but definitely the last five.
Buck Crockett:
And you know, extensions do things that separate
Buck Crockett:
applications used to do. If you've watched anybody on
Buck Crockett:
YouTube, they're all showing their VPN of the week and
Buck Crockett:
telling their users why they need it. And there are
Buck Crockett:
legitimate uses for those. And you know, a student bypassing a
Buck Crockett:
web filter is not one.
Christina Lewellen:
So my understanding buck is that you
Christina Lewellen:
have kind of a complicated system that you're running, and
Christina Lewellen:
in particular for ages four through 14, as you mentioned. So
Christina Lewellen:
can you tell us a little bit about the ecosystem that you
Christina Lewellen:
have built at your school. What is interesting to me is that
Christina Lewellen:
you're dealing with kids that are relatively young, and so I'm
Christina Lewellen:
curious how you think about technology when your focus is on
Christina Lewellen:
the younger grouping of kids. You know, because it's not like
Christina Lewellen:
you have an upper school where this tends to be more of these
Christina Lewellen:
conversations, I think, in terms of technology. So I'm interested
Christina Lewellen:
to just hear a little bit more about your ecosystem and kind of
Christina Lewellen:
how you think about younger learners.
Buck Crockett:
So starting at the four year old level, there
Buck Crockett:
are no screens for children there. It's a play based
Buck Crockett:
program. It's built on multi Century learning, so when a kid
Buck Crockett:
is at a station that say it's a sheet of canvas that's purple
Buck Crockett:
with pockets of different colors, and each one of those
Buck Crockett:
colors has a letter in it that corresponds with that color. So
Buck Crockett:
the purple pocket has a P in the pocket, and the red pocket has
Buck Crockett:
an R in its pocket, right? And you have to do a different fine
Buck Crockett:
motor movement to open each one of those pockets. That's what
Buck Crockett:
our pre K program looks like, and it's very analog as it
Buck Crockett:
should be.
Christina Lewellen:
And kind of what age does that sort of
Christina Lewellen:
evolve?
Buck Crockett:
The real evolution isn't for a handful
Buck Crockett:
more years for neurotypical students, it's that third grade
Buck Crockett:
year where they go from learning to read to reading to learn. And
Buck Crockett:
that is where we introduce, you know, one to one Chromebook and
Buck Crockett:
kind of start tip toeing our way into more screen time at school
Buck Crockett:
for learning.
Christina Lewellen:
Is that the same for you guys, too, Bill and
Christina Lewellen:
Hiram, is that roughly the same age frame for y'all school.
Bill Stites:
At our lower school, we have a break in the
Bill Stites:
devices so but if I'm correct, you start with a Chromebook with
Bill Stites:
the younger students.
Buck Crockett:
That's where our one to one starts. But we may
Buck Crockett:
have a makerspace teacher or a technology teacher go and do a
Buck Crockett:
push in Lesson in a first grade classroom where they're doing
Buck Crockett:
like, say, a geometry activity on iPads. And so that's a little
Buck Crockett:
separate from a built in regular use of screen time as part of
Buck Crockett:
the curriculum. The social emotional learning is a higher
Buck Crockett:
priority at that grade level, teaching kids to interact in
Buck Crockett:
person. But even at our higher level, like we don't want in
Buck Crockett:
middle school, like we block chess.com at school, I want kids
Buck Crockett:
outside at recess. We can give them chess boards. They can play
Buck Crockett:
chess in the physical realm and socialize and gain that
Buck Crockett:
socialization skill set that is more important than the
Buck Crockett:
analytical skill set they're going to gain from playing chess
Buck Crockett:
online. Line against a player who's in their grade level
Bill Stites:
at school, we focus at primary school, which is for
Bill Stites:
us, pre K through three, we focus a lot on, like the center
Bill Stites:
activities, the handwriting stuff, all of the tactile, gross
Bill Stites:
motor type stuff that you need, as you talked about with regard
Bill Stites:
to reading, so on and so forth. But one of the things when it
Bill Stites:
comes to devices, we actually introduce iPads at that lower
Bill Stites:
level, and that has to do with their fine motor skills, with
Bill Stites:
keyboarding, with not having to think about those pieces as
Bill Stites:
much. We're one to one pre K through 12. Oh, interesting. Our
Bill Stites:
one to one model at our primary school is iPads, pre K through
Bill Stites:
three in a in school model, only when they get to fourth grade,
Bill Stites:
we issue them MacBook Airs, and at fourth grade, it's still
Bill Stites:
mostly in school. They really don't start taking them home
Bill Stites:
until fifth grade. And we build programming experience around
Bill Stites:
the different ways you can use and interact with those devices.
Bill Stites:
From that gross motor, you know what I mean? More app based just
Bill Stites:
touching different things. And then, you know, when they get to
Bill Stites:
the middle school with the laptops, the biggest thing we
Bill Stites:
have to teach them is not to touch the screen,
Buck Crockett:
right? We run into that too. Man, oh, gosh,
Buck Crockett:
yeah,
Bill Stites:
because they're so used to that, but it's an
Bill Stites:
interesting break. It's one we're always looking at and
Bill Stites:
considering, but it goes developmentally with the way in
Bill Stites:
which our program is structured and set up.
Hiram Cuevas:
And back here, it's a Chris, we're one to 1k,
Hiram Cuevas:
through 12, we're Chromebooks in our lower school, and then bring
Hiram Cuevas:
your own model in the middle and in the Upper School, and then
Hiram Cuevas:
we're actually making a move next year, maybe the latter part
Hiram Cuevas:
of this year, to have iPads in K through one, mainly because the
Hiram Cuevas:
teachers are really hoping to get more creativity moments with
Hiram Cuevas:
the iPad than they are able to get in the Chromebook. The Yogas
Hiram Cuevas:
are just too chunky for the little hands, and they prefer
Hiram Cuevas:
the iPad as the tool of choice for that, and so we're going to
Hiram Cuevas:
make that switch for them. Similarly, we are what I call a
Hiram Cuevas:
residential Chromebook model in the Lower School, they don't
Hiram Cuevas:
leave the classrooms. The only time that they actually left the
Hiram Cuevas:
classroom was during covid, when we actually assigned them out to
Hiram Cuevas:
the students so that they could do the one to one learning that
Hiram Cuevas:
was being done at home.
Buck Crockett:
I should clarify we have for the teachers in
Buck Crockett:
kindergarten through first grade who want them, they can have
Buck Crockett:
like a station set, so maybe six iPads in their classroom. So
Buck Crockett:
saying there's zero that's not unless they were brought in for
Buck Crockett:
a specific activity, isn't 100% accurate, but the use is so
Buck Crockett:
minor that my theme is kind of the same in those first few
Buck Crockett:
years. What I'd be curious from your guys's perspective at your
Buck Crockett:
two schools, though, is, do you think having tech in those pre
Buck Crockett:
reading years. Do you think that detracts from students ability
Buck Crockett:
to learn, to socialize in the physical realm?
Bill Stites:
For us, it's very planned out and deliberate.
Bill Stites:
They're not just open, free to use. I mean, so if you're in a
Bill Stites:
pre K K, and you've got various center activities, if you've got
Bill Stites:
different things that they're structured learning experiences
Bill Stites:
where those tools are used in that moment. It's not just a
Bill Stites:
free for all, where kids picking and choosing when they're using
Bill Stites:
that. It's definitely based more in that learning model, that
Bill Stites:
learning philosophy that's used at that level.
Buck Crockett:
Got it? Yeah, no, I'd say our kids uses in
Buck Crockett:
alignment with both your schools at those grade levels.
Hiram Cuevas:
The only other thing that I'm constantly
Hiram Cuevas:
engaging in conversations with our teachers about is is the
Hiram Cuevas:
digital version of the lesson that much better than, say, the
Hiram Cuevas:
analog version of the same lesson, you know, where you're
Hiram Cuevas:
also getting some of the tactile and some of the fine motor
Hiram Cuevas:
skills and gross motor skills that that is needed to
Hiram Cuevas:
manipulate mathematical manipulatives or coins or
Hiram Cuevas:
creating groups and sets and things of that nature. I think
Hiram Cuevas:
you do get some additional value adds to the analog component
Hiram Cuevas:
that can't be matched in the digital realm. But by the same
Hiram Cuevas:
token, you know, it all depends on what your objective is
Christina Lewellen:
so Buck it's interesting. You're where you're
Christina Lewellen:
located in the Silicon Valley, and probably you have some
Christina Lewellen:
interesting parents in your parent community. What is your
Christina Lewellen:
overall kind of approach or take on some AI stuff? Where do you
Christina Lewellen:
guys stand in that part of your journey? At the moment? How are
Christina Lewellen:
you thinking about AI?
Buck Crockett:
So I'd say my core thinking of AI is on the
Buck Crockett:
philosophy side, like, what does it mean to be a learner in this
Buck Crockett:
new world? My generation was like the bridge generation,
Buck Crockett:
where your music was on a CD player or a tape player and
Buck Crockett:
everything was a single use. Device. You look at your phone
Buck Crockett:
now, and you could look at probably 10 apps that were 10
Buck Crockett:
different products back then. So I saw that bridge to that new
Buck Crockett:
world happen. So AI is kind of doing that. You know, for our
Buck Crockett:
kids, they're the bridge generation to AI, especially
Buck Crockett:
some of the older students, any kid in middle school, I'd
Buck Crockett:
certainly classify as the bridge generation to AI, they will have
Buck Crockett:
known a world where you are not an AI learner, and now they're
Buck Crockett:
figuring out what it means to be a learner in a world where if
Buck Crockett:
your teacher gives you an online test, you can open up a web
Buck Crockett:
browser that will do that test for you and get you a passing
Buck Crockett:
grade, probably better than what you could do if you didn't study
Buck Crockett:
the material. And on the other side, that student can choose to
Buck Crockett:
like use AI as a tutor to help patch holes in their own
Buck Crockett:
knowledge as they study for an exam. So I think now more than
Buck Crockett:
ever, as a school, you want to be teaching students to use AI
Buck Crockett:
responsibly in a way that it helps them with their
Buck Crockett:
educational journey and doesn't take away from their educational
Buck Crockett:
experience. We're absolutely partnering with our parent
Buck Crockett:
community on that.
Christina Lewellen:
That's interesting. Do you get pressure
Christina Lewellen:
from them to move faster than you want to, or are they more
Christina Lewellen:
concerned? You know, on a scale of, don't do it at all, I'm
Christina Lewellen:
super concerned to like, why aren't you guys moving faster?
Christina Lewellen:
Like, where do your parents generally fall? I'm sure it's a
Christina Lewellen:
mix
Buck Crockett:
for an easy round number. So we got about 1000
Buck Crockett:
parents right in around 500 different households. The
Buck Crockett:
parents who come to ACDS actually, they're coming here
Buck Crockett:
because we are a low stress, high opportunity environment.
Buck Crockett:
And so a parent who wants us to use AI in a way that is in line
Buck Crockett:
with that philosophy, we want to have a deeper conversation with
Buck Crockett:
and figure out what that looks like for their child, and if we
Buck Crockett:
were to expand it to a class or a grade level or curriculum, a
Buck Crockett:
parent who wants us to use it to say, like, accelerate learning
Buck Crockett:
in a way that it's not developmentally appropriate for
Buck Crockett:
the child, they might not have a right fit for our school and our
Buck Crockett:
philosophy. So, you know, I think it's a matter of keeping
Buck Crockett:
the dialog open, meeting people where they're at and, you know,
Buck Crockett:
kind of going on that journey together. But what doesn't
Buck Crockett:
change is the school's mission and philosophy and the way we
Buck Crockett:
cherish childhood.
Christina Lewellen:
Can you tell me a little bit about what your
Christina Lewellen:
day to day is like? You're the director of technology, and that
Christina Lewellen:
means a lot of different things at different schools, so we talk
Christina Lewellen:
about that a lot here on the pod, and also I know what the
Christina Lewellen:
follow up will be from the guys, so I might as well just step on
Christina Lewellen:
their toes and ask it, what does your team look like? Are you a
Christina Lewellen:
lone ranger, or do you have support?
Buck Crockett:
So the day to day can be very different. If I'm
Buck Crockett:
involved in a commercial construction project and like
Buck Crockett:
have my hands in what type of cables going into the building,
Buck Crockett:
or when that project gets finished by the contractor and
Buck Crockett:
hand it over to it. That is very intellectually stimulating. I
Buck Crockett:
like that work, and it's also probably also very stressful. At
Buck Crockett:
the same time, I've had two years where I haven't done that,
Buck Crockett:
but I had, like, close to four years where I was in that world,
Buck Crockett:
and then we're preparing for another, like, kind of big
Buck Crockett:
project that I can't go into too much detail on this in this
Buck Crockett:
public of a space, but it's in the ramp up stage right now. So
Buck Crockett:
that, suffice to say, like, what's going on can change.
Buck Crockett:
Like, there's variety. It also there's a pattern of the school
Buck Crockett:
year, right? So that, I would say, is kind of the most
Buck Crockett:
predictable at this stage in my career, and there's the starting
Buck Crockett:
of school year, and the end of school year is definitely my
Buck Crockett:
busiest time. And those are times where, like, Yeah, I kind
Buck Crockett:
of expect to work nights and weekends to make sure our level
Buck Crockett:
of support for our teachers is at the level I want it to be. I
Buck Crockett:
want those teachers to feel like they're ready for the start of
Buck Crockett:
the school year. If they're in that sort of school year, the
Buck Crockett:
Tech's not an issue for them either. That means I'm working
Buck Crockett:
more than I want to be working. Summer is also now our our
Buck Crockett:
busiest season, because we have a growing summer camp program,
Buck Crockett:
and I want to see that in my mind, our summer camp enrollment
Buck Crockett:
should be what our school year enrollment is. It shouldn't be.
Buck Crockett:
You know, for parents who want their kids doing cool things in
Buck Crockett:
the summer. We have a facility to support around 450 kids. We
Buck Crockett:
should have around that many kids in our summer camp program,
Buck Crockett:
but to build that and support it from the tech support side,
Buck Crockett:
where it's, you know, each week's kind of like a new start
Buck Crockett:
of the school year, because these camps are like one week
Buck Crockett:
rotations. That's a lot on the support side. So that's very
Buck Crockett:
busy for me, too. In those kind of non busy times, I feel like
Buck Crockett:
that's where I'm like, closer to one FTE, and working more normal
Buck Crockett:
hours and coming into the office. If there's any, like,
Buck Crockett:
high priority tech support that I need to weigh in on or help
Buck Crockett:
with, or even work on myself, I'll be doing that. I. Also work
Buck Crockett:
with our facilities team, kind of hand in hand on a lot of our
Buck Crockett:
our building infrastructure, building management systems. So
Buck Crockett:
there could be a facilities issue that like, oh, this
Buck Crockett:
building's like, HVAC system runs on a server, and we're
Buck Crockett:
trying to figure out if it's a hardware software issue. I may
Buck Crockett:
be involved in those kind of conversations. It's
Christina Lewellen:
cool that they involve you with that.
Christina Lewellen:
Years ago, we did some research at ATLIS that basically showed
Christina Lewellen:
that if construction projects happened without the tech leader
Christina Lewellen:
at the table, it was going to cost a minimum of 10% over the
Christina Lewellen:
total cost of the project in change orders. And oops, we
Christina Lewellen:
didn't think about that, right? And so it's kind of cool that
Christina Lewellen:
you're saying that sounds like it's baked into the culture at
Christina Lewellen:
your school with the secret project you're working on, or
Christina Lewellen:
that you're gearing up for, you know that you're part of these
Christina Lewellen:
conversations early, which is pretty fabulous and not always
Christina Lewellen:
the case. Yeah,
Buck Crockett:
yeah. It's so critical. I'm glad you mentioned
Buck Crockett:
that as a component. I would say it could be more than 10% if
Buck Crockett:
you're building like we build if you're trying to make the
Buck Crockett:
classroom of the future with a lot of tech. You know, a lot of
Buck Crockett:
cables in the wall, a lot of infrastructure, the cost to
Buck Crockett:
reopen all those walls and put all those cables in that you
Buck Crockett:
didn't run, or put infrastructure in that you
Buck Crockett:
didn't do when a building was going up or being remodeled.
Buck Crockett:
Yeah, it could certainly be over a million dollars at a $10
Buck Crockett:
million project level,
Christina Lewellen:
or even just an eyesore, right, like when
Christina Lewellen:
you're running those wire trackers,
Buck Crockett:
oh yeah, you want things to look good, yeah,
Christina Lewellen:
yeah, yeah. Because after the fact, you're
Christina Lewellen:
like, Oops, we didn't run this thing, and then suddenly there's
Christina Lewellen:
these ancillary we
Hiram Cuevas:
got ranks way, yeah, bummer. But
Buck Crockett:
also, like, material science, I mean, I
Buck Crockett:
could go on knowing what material the building's built
Buck Crockett:
at, and then having an idea of, like, Okay, how do radio
Buck Crockett:
frequencies propagate through that material? If you have an
Buck Crockett:
understanding of that you can get, I would say to the 80th
Buck Crockett:
percentile of what you get, or what you do get when you bring a
Buck Crockett:
team in to do like a network audit, to decide where all your
Buck Crockett:
access points should be in a new build or a remodel, just by
Buck Crockett:
knowing the material science at a basic level, like radio
Buck Crockett:
frequencies don't go through metal very easily. They go
Buck Crockett:
through glass, just fine, those sorts of things and building up
Buck Crockett:
from there.
Christina Lewellen:
So do you do all this by yourself? I was
Hiram Cuevas:
gonna say drum roll. How big is your team?
Buck Crockett:
We effectively have like, a 1.5 team. It's been
Buck Crockett:
between 1.5 and two, including yourself, yeah, including
Buck Crockett:
myself. So, oh, actually, I'm minimizing too much. So as our
Buck Crockett:
school has grown, the people who run technology applications as a
Buck Crockett:
day job has grown. So when I first started here, like I
Buck Crockett:
pretty much ran our student information system, and now we
Buck Crockett:
have basically a person and a half who does that, but with the
Buck Crockett:
way we use the student information system is much more
Buck Crockett:
complex than where we did when I started here, and our
Buck Crockett:
enrollments higher. So that's, you know, you could count that
Buck Crockett:
as a number member of the team, right? We have about one and a
Buck Crockett:
half ft on marketing communication, so making sure
Buck Crockett:
all our communication is clean, making sure our website looks as
Buck Crockett:
good as we can possibly make it, and the spirit store, like all
Buck Crockett:
the branded gear we sell, so that's a big tech piece, too,
Buck Crockett:
but when it comes to day to day operations and the portfolio of
Buck Crockett:
education apps, the portfolio business apps and tech support,
Buck Crockett:
yeah, we're at about 1.5 and the way it's broken down at our
Buck Crockett:
school is I'm doing the majority of the Operations Support, and
Buck Crockett:
then we have someone in more wearing the Ed Tech hat, who is
Buck Crockett:
managing that portfolio of Ed Tech apps and then interfacing
Buck Crockett:
with teachers more directly on, you know, making sure they're
Buck Crockett:
getting the value out of those. So I'm still in those
Buck Crockett:
conversations, but I'm not driving it daily, and that's
Buck Crockett:
where I'm just so grateful for the team I have and the people I
Buck Crockett:
work with, they add a tremendous amount of value.
Christina Lewellen:
So I'd love to just ask you about, you know,
Christina Lewellen:
you've mentioned this idea that tech problems aren't always tech
Christina Lewellen:
problems, that sometimes do you have to kind of peel back a
Christina Lewellen:
couple layers to actually get to the core issue that you're
Christina Lewellen:
juggling. You know, with a younger student audience, then
Christina Lewellen:
you have the adults we always talk about on this pod, how
Christina Lewellen:
complicated and enterprise that can be when it comes to
Christina Lewellen:
technology, not like me, where I just have adults on my system.
Christina Lewellen:
So you guys have got a lot to juggle. So how do you sort of
Christina Lewellen:
unpack, you know, when you come across a technology problem or a
Christina Lewellen:
challenge at your school, talk us through how you think
Buck Crockett:
about that. It's something I wish I would have
Buck Crockett:
learned earlier, and I think I'm good at it now. I'm not an
Buck Crockett:
expert, and what it is is being able to communicate with people.
Buck Crockett:
Well, the metaphor I would use is like, imagine a conversation
Buck Crockett:
with someone is like you're pulling on a rope back in. Forth
Buck Crockett:
with two knots in it, right? If you're communicating at an
Buck Crockett:
expert level, it's a two way street, and you're both trying
Buck Crockett:
to untie those knots and then pull that rope in the same
Buck Crockett:
direction. That's expert level communication. I would say I'm
Buck Crockett:
good at communication, and depending on where you're at,
Buck Crockett:
you're explaining how something works to people. It's always how
Buck Crockett:
something works in a way that they can understand it at the
Buck Crockett:
level they're at, right? And so you may have to, like self
Buck Crockett:
assess through that conversation process where they're at. When I
Buck Crockett:
was a sped teacher thinking, oh yeah, I want to get on the tech
Buck Crockett:
support side, I was just 100% focused on learning all the
Buck Crockett:
fundamentals of how tech works. It would work in my home lab and
Buck Crockett:
like, install Linux systems and set up servers, and I would
Buck Crockett:
study network infrastructure. And that really did give me a
Buck Crockett:
good base on how things work at a fundamental level, on the tech
Buck Crockett:
side of things, but it didn't help me in these situations
Buck Crockett:
where you have something that manifests as a tech problems.
Buck Crockett:
It's actually not, you know, in a school that can manifest at
Buck Crockett:
any like kind of level within the community, so that can
Buck Crockett:
manifest in a student, a parent, a teacher, an administrator. So
Buck Crockett:
then going to kind of what you're talking about, the
Buck Crockett:
peeling back the layers. And that's where I'm sure the folks
Buck Crockett:
listening here do what we do in your mind. You probably have 10
Buck Crockett:
examples. Let me think of one from like just ticket talk this
Buck Crockett:
morning, where I meet with a person on my team and we talk
Buck Crockett:
through the help desk tickets that we're trying to get closed
Buck Crockett:
by end of day Friday and make these users feel supported. We
Buck Crockett:
have an application that we have to get two things done to get it
Buck Crockett:
working for that user the way we want it. First on the back end
Buck Crockett:
of that application, we put in that user's email. They have to
Buck Crockett:
click on that email. After that's done, then we can, like,
Buck Crockett:
set up how they use that application. So if that user
Buck Crockett:
doesn't click into that email, we can't do our job. So then we
Buck Crockett:
have to make the decision, okay, what do we do? How do we use our
Buck Crockett:
time? Do we go find that user? You know, maybe this has
Buck Crockett:
happened three times already, and for their job, it's an
Buck Crockett:
expectation that they use this software, right? But they still
Buck Crockett:
haven't clicked into that email to activate it and get us to
Buck Crockett:
step where we can get them the software they that next level of
Buck Crockett:
like, specific software they need. So then you have to
Buck Crockett:
decide, okay, do you go to their supervisor right away and say,
Buck Crockett:
Hey, this person's not meeting expectations. What do you
Buck Crockett:
recommend I do? Or is it more time effective to just go to
Buck Crockett:
that person in their plan period, open up their laptop, do
Buck Crockett:
that task for them, and then open up your laptop, get them
Buck Crockett:
that software they need, open it up for them, and then go back to
Buck Crockett:
your office, write up the notes, close the ticket, and then write
Buck Crockett:
a quick email to the supervisor and say, Hey, this is what
Buck Crockett:
happened. I just want to make you aware of it. Those are the
Buck Crockett:
types of situations that problem isn't at all a tech problem,
Buck Crockett:
right? But those sort of things happen at every school, and I
Buck Crockett:
imagine they happen in the corporate workforce too. That's
Buck Crockett:
where the communication piece comes in. You know, there could
Buck Crockett:
be something going on with their user, of why they didn't open
Buck Crockett:
the email that I totally don't understand. Maybe they had like
Buck Crockett:
Lasik eye surgery and their eyes haven't healed yet. Or maybe
Buck Crockett:
they had a dramatic life event and they're not firing at all
Buck Crockett:
cylinders anymore, or for this period of time, and that's just
Buck Crockett:
like manifesting as a tech issues. It's not a tech issue.
Buck Crockett:
So we we have to find that balance between, okay, how do we
Buck Crockett:
get our job done? And also not get tied into what could be an
Buck Crockett:
HR issue or, like, a personnel issue. I
Christina Lewellen:
love that. I think that in a lot of ways,
Christina Lewellen:
that means that it's not just communication, but there's a
Christina Lewellen:
certain amount of empathy and also just making those
Christina Lewellen:
decisions, weighing whether or not it's worth it to dive into
Christina Lewellen:
it or if it's better to just solve the problem and reduce the
Christina Lewellen:
friction. In this particular case, I love that. That's sort
Christina Lewellen:
of how you think through that. And it's interesting, because I
Christina Lewellen:
always say to my girls when they're driving, they're young
Christina Lewellen:
drivers, they're in their 20s, and they'll be like, Oh, that
Christina Lewellen:
guy, get out of the way. And I'm like, you don't know. You don't
Christina Lewellen:
know if that person is on the way to a hospital or just got
Christina Lewellen:
fired or just lost an animal like, you don't know what
Christina Lewellen:
they're going through. So that kind of empathy from a tech lens
Christina Lewellen:
is an important reminder, I think, to our entire community,
Christina Lewellen:
absolutely so before we wrap up today, I want to also come back
Christina Lewellen:
to where we started, if I could buck, you know, you mentioned
Christina Lewellen:
that you started your journey down this maybe unlikely path as
Christina Lewellen:
someone who is kind of outdoorsy, you know, you
Christina Lewellen:
mentioned in passing that you were into some Extreme sports
Christina Lewellen:
and that you kind of began this journey in, like a wilderness,
Christina Lewellen:
sort of space. So I'm curious. Usually, if that's something
Christina Lewellen:
deep in you, it lasts and it sticks with you. So is that
Christina Lewellen:
still something that you do to try to unwind from these long
Christina Lewellen:
hours, or these stressful periods that you have at school?
Christina Lewellen:
Are you still. The type of person who tends to try to get
Christina Lewellen:
outside as much as you can. Is that a stress relief for you? A
Christina Lewellen:
hobby?
Buck Crockett:
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a parent now. I have a
Buck Crockett:
four year old,
Hiram Cuevas:
no stress, no stress at all.
Buck Crockett:
Yeah, well, I have this sacred responsibility
Buck Crockett:
to like be the best father I can and husband for my kid's life,
Buck Crockett:
but certainly their journey to adulthood. And so that's changed
Buck Crockett:
my risk profile quite a bit. So I don't I used to, for example,
Buck Crockett:
do a lot more whitewater kayaking at like, the pretty
Buck Crockett:
high extreme level and danger level. I don't do that anymore,
Buck Crockett:
and I used to do quite a bit of rock climbing also at that level
Buck Crockett:
too, and I'm doing a little more rock climbing now, but much more
Buck Crockett:
at the like this is totally safe. You're in a very safe rope
Buck Crockett:
system. It's safer than driving sort of environment. I'm a very
Buck Crockett:
active, fitness driven person, and I could never, I wouldn't
Buck Crockett:
say never, to say never. It would be very hard for me to
Buck Crockett:
work out in a gym, and those are kind of far away from where I
Buck Crockett:
live. I'm fortunate to be kind of in a valley on the western
Buck Crockett:
slope of the Santa Cruz Mountains. And so I'm so lucky.
Buck Crockett:
Like, on Tuesday mornings, I'll wake up at five and, like, do
Buck Crockett:
intervals up a 3000 foot mountain called them, and I'm
Buck Crockett:
and then, like, on Thursday mornings, I'll try and run, like
Buck Crockett:
a half marathon trail run, but my knee has been giving me some
Buck Crockett:
trouble, so I only did like 10 miles today. Miles today, but I
Buck Crockett:
just have a body where, like, I need to move and I need to,
Buck Crockett:
like, do a lot of aerobic activity to feel normal. So my
Buck Crockett:
normal is different than a lot of people's. And I also bike to
Buck Crockett:
work. So that's like 10 miles, five miles each way, but that's
Buck Crockett:
also at a very like, conversational pace. It's very
Buck Crockett:
minimal workout, but still, like, gives me more time to move
Buck Crockett:
my body and just connect to the environment. So yeah, in those
Buck Crockett:
ways, those pieces are still a part of me. And I'm stoked to
Buck Crockett:
have this job I have now where I get to turn the intellectual
Buck Crockett:
problem solving gears. I really enjoy the problem solving nature
Buck Crockett:
of the technology work I do. So getting to do both of those
Buck Crockett:
things is pretty fun for me.
Christina Lewellen:
I think that's a perfect way to put the
Christina Lewellen:
tech stuff. I don't know about you guys, Hiram and Bill, do you
Christina Lewellen:
guys consider yourselves the first bullet on your job
Christina Lewellen:
description is problem solver? It's pretty good way to put it.
Christina Lewellen:
You guys pretty much do that and exercise that muscle all day,
Christina Lewellen:
every day,
Hiram Cuevas:
every day.
Bill Stites:
Yeah, the muscle I'm not exercising is the one
Bill Stites:
where he's running the amount that he's running.
Christina Lewellen:
Because that's just absurd. We'll leave
Christina Lewellen:
that to Hiram, exactly. That's
Hiram Cuevas:
what happens. You know, you get married, you have
Hiram Cuevas:
children, frontal lobe kicks in, and self preservation follows.
Buck Crockett:
Oh, totally, totally. It's like, man, most
Buck Crockett:
people's frontal lobes develop by the time they're, like, in
Buck Crockett:
their late 20s. I think for me it was like later 30s. So I
Buck Crockett:
probably have, like, a 10 year frontal lobe development delay.
Christina Lewellen:
I think I'm still waiting. I know I don't
Christina Lewellen:
think Bill has finished this
Buck Crockett:
yet, but I think I'm probably in the 80th
Buck Crockett:
percentile. Now,
Hiram Cuevas:
we typically ask, you know, what is your melee
Hiram Cuevas:
weapon of choice in the zombie apocalypse, but given your
Hiram Cuevas:
outdoor experience, what is your gotta have tool when you're out
Hiram Cuevas:
and about camping? So
Buck Crockett:
when I worked wilderness therapy, like we
Buck Crockett:
would do, like bow drill, permanent fire making, and like,
Buck Crockett:
cook all our meals with fires we made with sticks. So if I got to
Buck Crockett:
have any tool in a situation like that, or, like any outdoor
Buck Crockett:
situation one, I wouldn't have shoes with laces, because those
Buck Crockett:
like you can make Pete cord out of and make a bow for a bow
Buck Crockett:
drill, and then a Leatherman, like a Leatherman, is just an
Buck Crockett:
incredible tool to kind of get into problem solving, like, you
Buck Crockett:
need food and water, right? And, like, fire. With a Leatherman,
Buck Crockett:
you can get to fire very, very quickly if you got shoelaces on
Buck Crockett:
your boots. And then you could make, like, 100 string traps in
Buck Crockett:
good weather in like a week. So you're not, like, trying to,
Buck Crockett:
like, get a big animal, you're just trying to get a bunch of
Buck Crockett:
small ones. So yeah, the Leatherman gets you there
Buck Crockett:
faster.
Christina Lewellen:
I would not have picked either of those
Christina Lewellen:
things. I don't think I would have picked being in the woods
Christina Lewellen:
first and foremost, but I got it shoelaces, important,
Buck Crockett:
and the Leatherman is a multi tool. It's
Buck Crockett:
like a Swiss army knife with pliers.
Hiram Cuevas:
It's a great tool. Got mine at home.
Christina Lewellen:
Gentlemen, thank you so much for hanging
Christina Lewellen:
out and chatting with us today. Buck, it's been a pleasure to
Christina Lewellen:
have you on the show with us. Thank you so much for sharing
Christina Lewellen:
your perspective. Keep us posted on how everything's going out
Christina Lewellen:
there with your school. It sounds like you guys are running
Christina Lewellen:
a really great operation.
Buck Crockett:
Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure talking
Buck Crockett:
with you guys today.
Peter Frank:
This has been talking technology with ATLIS,
Peter Frank:
produced by the Association of technology leaders in
Peter Frank:
independent schools. For more information about Atlas and
Peter Frank:
Atlas membership, please visit the atlas.org if you enjoyed
Peter Frank:
this discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and
Peter Frank:
share this podcast with your colleague. In the independent
Peter Frank:
school community. Thank you for listening. You.
