Enhancing Learning: Integrating Technology and Addressing Diverse Needs
In this episode, we explore the thoughtful integration of technology in education, with a focus on supporting students with learning differences. We discuss strategies for evaluating and implementing ed tech tools to create accessible and effective learning environments. Dr. Joan McGettigan shares insights on balancing innovation with proven pedagogical practices, and the importance of collaboration between IT and Ed Tech departments.
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Transcript
Peter Frank:
Phil, welcome to Talking Technology with ATLIS,
Peter Frank:
the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for
Peter Frank:
technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.
Peter Frank:
We'll hear stories from technology directors and other
Peter Frank:
special guests from the Independent School community,
Peter Frank:
and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.
Peter Frank:
And now please welcome your host. Kristina Lewellen,
Christina Lewellen:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to
Christina Lewellen:
talking technology with Atlas. I am Kristina Lewellen, the
Christina Lewellen:
President and CEO of the Association of Technology
Christina Lewellen:
Leaders in Independent
Bill Stites:
Schools. And I am Bill Stites, the Director of
Bill Stites:
Technology at Montclair Kimberly Academy in Montclair, New
Bill Stites:
Jersey, and
Hiram Cuevas:
I'm Hiram Cuevas, Director of Information Systems
Hiram Cuevas:
and Academic Technology at St Christopher school in Richmond,
Hiram Cuevas:
Virginia.
Christina Lewellen:
Hello, gentlemen. How are you today?
Christina Lewellen:
I'm in pretty good so, Hiram, you were on the road, right? So
Christina Lewellen:
yesterday you were in warm temperatures. Today, you're in a
Christina Lewellen:
snowstorm, and already, as we got on the pod to begin
Christina Lewellen:
recording, you had an electricity flicker. How cold is
Christina Lewellen:
it there? It's
Hiram Cuevas:
19 degrees, according to my phone. But I do
Hiram Cuevas:
want to wish a belated Happy birthday to my mom. We
Hiram Cuevas:
celebrated her 79th birthday over the weekend. Awesome. Nice.
Hiram Cuevas:
So it was all exciting town in Florida.
Bill Stites:
Happy birthday, Mama Cuevas, that's really
Christina Lewellen:
exciting. Happy birthday to her. And you
Christina Lewellen:
know, you got to love a long happy life with lots of family
Christina Lewellen:
coming down to Florida to celebrate with you. There's
Christina Lewellen:
nothing wrong with
Hiram Cuevas:
any of that. Nothing wrong at all palm trees
Hiram Cuevas:
and little bit of libation. Yeah. Which
Bill Stites:
never hurts. She deserves
Christina Lewellen:
it. Well, gentlemen, we have an exciting
Christina Lewellen:
podcast today. I'm really excited we're gonna dive into ed
Christina Lewellen:
tech a little bit more. You know that we go back and forth on
Christina Lewellen:
this pod. We talk about it and technical things. We talk about
Christina Lewellen:
ed tech things. Sometimes we profile individuals who have
Christina Lewellen:
done incredible work in our space. And I think today we're
Christina Lewellen:
going to do a bit of all of that. Today we welcome to the
Christina Lewellen:
podcast. Dr Joan McGettigan, she is the Director of Educational
Christina Lewellen:
Technology at the Windward school in New York, and so
Christina Lewellen:
joining us from probably pretty chilly temperatures, is Joan.
Christina Lewellen:
Hello, Joan, welcome to the podcast.
Joan McGettigan:
Hello all. I'm honored to be here. Love the
Joan McGettigan:
Atlas podcast. You all have the best people and have the best
Joan McGettigan:
conversations. So excited to join in today. Thank you guys.
Christina Lewellen:
We have a fan. You might be our first I
Christina Lewellen:
love this. As I mentioned, you are up in the colder part of our
Christina Lewellen:
country right now. How cool is it? Where you are? Well,
Christina Lewellen:
yesterday,
Joan McGettigan:
the wind chill was seven degrees.
Christina Lewellen:
That's single digit. That's pretty
Christina Lewellen:
rough. Yeah,
Joan McGettigan:
so I'm looking out on fields that are filled
Joan McGettigan:
with snow. We have campuses in Westchester, White Plains, New
Joan McGettigan:
York, but we also have a campus in Manhattan, so no snow there,
Joan McGettigan:
but White Plains is overflowing with snow and ice. Can
Christina Lewellen:
you tell us a little bit more about the
Christina Lewellen:
school? Are you a K, 12?
Joan McGettigan:
No, we are actually one through nine. So we
Joan McGettigan:
have three campuses. We serve a special population, students
Joan McGettigan:
with dyslexia and other language based disabilities. It's not
Joan McGettigan:
similar to other independent schools where a lot of students
Joan McGettigan:
could be lifers. You know, I'd say Christophers, they come in
Joan McGettigan:
and they stay at that school in Richmond for life, right? It's a
Joan McGettigan:
big deal to graduate, and you have this incredible community
Joan McGettigan:
here at Windward. Our intent is actually to get them out the
Joan McGettigan:
door. We want to be able to bring them in and help them
Joan McGettigan:
read, help them write, help with executive functioning skills,
Joan McGettigan:
and then successfully out place to the school of their choice in
Joan McGettigan:
usually, an average of three to four years.
Christina Lewellen:
That's really incredible. I can't wait
Christina Lewellen:
to dive into all the ways that technology supports that
Christina Lewellen:
mission, but first, let's pause and get a little bit of
Christina Lewellen:
information about you. Tell us about your background. You have
Christina Lewellen:
had a lot of different roles. You've approached this work
Christina Lewellen:
through different lenses. So can you tell everybody a little bit
Christina Lewellen:
about your journey?
Joan McGettigan:
I actually started off on Wall Street. I
Joan McGettigan:
was a research associate on tobacco and food companies of
Joan McGettigan:
all things, and through volunteer work at a school in
Joan McGettigan:
Harlem, fell in love with teaching so much my parents
Joan McGettigan:
dismay, I announced that I was going back to school because I
Joan McGettigan:
had never taken any education classes. So I got my master's in
Joan McGettigan:
elementary and masters in educational technology, and then
Joan McGettigan:
became this kind of role at Trinity Episcopal in New
Joan McGettigan:
Orleans, after three years, moved back to Connecticut and
Joan McGettigan:
became a classroom teacher at a public school in New Canaan,
Joan McGettigan:
Connecticut for about 10 years. And then ventured back into
Joan McGettigan:
technology, moved down to Florida so Hiram, love the palm
Joan McGettigan:
trees, miss the sunshine. And I was at a school, North bar
Joan McGettigan:
Preparatory School, which had no technology when I joined them.
Joan McGettigan:
And over time, we became one to one iPad program, pre K through
Joan McGettigan:
12 became an Apple Distinguished School, added a boarding
Joan McGettigan:
population of almost 500 it was really great community, and in
Joan McGettigan:
time, moved back to Connecticut, back into public school world.
Joan McGettigan:
This kind of role in Darien, Connecticut, for entire school
Joan McGettigan:
district, and then was looking for a place that was really
Joan McGettigan:
mission driven, and was fortunate enough to join
Joan McGettigan:
windward and helping students again with dyslexia and other
Joan McGettigan:
language based disabilities. So that's kind of my fast journey
Joan McGettigan:
over the past few years. That's
Christina Lewellen:
awesome. I can definitely recognize and
Christina Lewellen:
identify with the desire to be connected to the mission. Like
Christina Lewellen:
doing work in pursuit of a shared goal is really cool, and
Christina Lewellen:
we've definitely talked about that a lot, both within Atlas,
Christina Lewellen:
but also on this pod. Can you tell me what Director of
Christina Lewellen:
Educational Technology means for your school, what does your job
Christina Lewellen:
description sort of look like, or what does your day to day
Christina Lewellen:
look like?
Joan McGettigan:
Christina, it's a really interesting question.
Joan McGettigan:
Windward is a school that historically has never used that
Joan McGettigan:
much technology, if you look at all the research about the
Joan McGettigan:
connection between handwriting and comprehension. So for
Joan McGettigan:
windward to hire me in this position really was the sort of
Joan McGettigan:
leap of faith in eventually we're going to bridge the
Joan McGettigan:
curriculum and technology and see where we can use technology
Joan McGettigan:
thoughtfully, purposefully to really help students in this
Joan McGettigan:
world that is becoming more and more AI focused. You know, how
Joan McGettigan:
can we help our students to take advantage of that? How can we
Joan McGettigan:
use technology to help support their development of executive
Joan McGettigan:
functioning skills? So there's a variety of areas that I'm making
Joan McGettigan:
progress in working with the faculty, but I probably spend a
Joan McGettigan:
good bit of my time also doing things like curriculum mapping.
Joan McGettigan:
So we are using Understanding by Design as our framework, and
Joan McGettigan:
using a tool that I think you all agree is become increasingly
Joan McGettigan:
popular in independent school world Toddle so our faculty like
Joan McGettigan:
how easy it is to get the curriculum in there. Then once
Joan McGettigan:
we have that in, you know the ability to make those
Joan McGettigan:
connections for where technology can integrate in a really
Joan McGettigan:
thoughtful process to help serve this population is going to be
Joan McGettigan:
really powerful. So I know it might seem unusual that I'm
Joan McGettigan:
spending so much time in curriculum, but I think
Joan McGettigan:
historically, anyone in educational technology needs to
Joan McGettigan:
develop a pretty good comprehensive understanding of
Joan McGettigan:
what curriculum is across all subject areas and all grade
Joan McGettigan:
level areas, because how else can we serve those populations
Joan McGettigan:
if we don't understand how everything fits together, all
Joan McGettigan:
those puzzle pieces? Since you
Christina Lewellen:
took us to the big picture, let's stay
Christina Lewellen:
there for a minute before we sort of drill down into the
Christina Lewellen:
specifics of how your school uses technology to help those
Christina Lewellen:
students with that successful transition that you noted. But
Christina Lewellen:
let's stay higher than that and look at the World Economic Forum
Christina Lewellen:
recently issued a job outlook, looking at the types of
Christina Lewellen:
technology skills that we need to focus on looking at the
Christina Lewellen:
future of jobs. So this report, released in January 2025 gives
Christina Lewellen:
us some insight into what is happening and where things are
Christina Lewellen:
going. How does that influence this work that you're doing
Christina Lewellen:
around curriculum mapping? You
Joan McGettigan:
know, it's so interesting. Kristina, and if I
Joan McGettigan:
can take a leap back to the past, this particular report, I
Joan McGettigan:
look forward every year to it, because I think it's fascinating
Joan McGettigan:
to see how it has changed over time. I think analytical
Joan McGettigan:
thinking has pretty much stayed as one of the top core skills
Joan McGettigan:
over the past 1516, years. But I remember when I joined North Bar
Joan McGettigan:
Prep in Florida, we had a course required for graduation that was
Joan McGettigan:
mastery of Word, PowerPoint and Excel, and it was like this
Joan McGettigan:
standalone class, and it did not serve its purpose anymore, so we
Joan McGettigan:
moved that down to sixth grade. Designed a new class for.
Joan McGettigan:
Branding and digital communication so that students
Joan McGettigan:
would be better prepared. And that was really based on looking
Joan McGettigan:
at that World Economic Forum report on jobs and outlook and
Joan McGettigan:
thinking about our students really need to be trans,
Joan McGettigan:
literate. They need to be able to navigate, interpret, create
Joan McGettigan:
content, assess content in a variety of formats. And so I
Joan McGettigan:
think that was a shift that we all felt in technology was
Joan McGettigan:
helping our students gain these new skills and knowledge and
Joan McGettigan:
apply it in a variety of ways, versus this kind of stand alone
Joan McGettigan:
class. So when I look at curriculum mapping, I'm always
Joan McGettigan:
looking to see where can we fit those transliterate skills. UbD
Joan McGettigan:
approach always will ask us, what do we want students to
Joan McGettigan:
know? What do we want students to be able to do? And why does
Joan McGettigan:
that matter in understanding your why, as Simon Sinek always
Joan McGettigan:
pushes right, underscores everything. And so if we are
Joan McGettigan:
preparing students to successfully, in our case,
Joan McGettigan:
successfully out place to environments that are heavily
Joan McGettigan:
digital, we really need to look to this report and see where
Joan McGettigan:
does it fit in our curriculum, in a way that makes sense, and
Joan McGettigan:
in a way, and sorry to go on a bandwagon here, but I'm very
Joan McGettigan:
much in this kind of subtraction mode right now. I feel like
Joan McGettigan:
every year, schools add and add and add, and it's simply not
Joan McGettigan:
possible. And I think this is one of the reasons students and
Joan McGettigan:
certainly teachers, feel overwhelmed so much to do and
Joan McGettigan:
that simply is impossible. So if you know your why and your
Joan McGettigan:
mission, and you've drilled out and what is the essential things
Joan McGettigan:
that you want students to know and be able to do, then I think
Joan McGettigan:
it clarifies everything. So when I look at those top skills from
Joan McGettigan:
the World Economic Forum, analytical thinking, Okay, I'm
Joan McGettigan:
hip with that, resilience, leadership, creative thinking.
Joan McGettigan:
You know, it goes all the way down to empathy, curiosity. But
Joan McGettigan:
what fascinated me this year is, you know, the they do that 10
Joan McGettigan:
fastest growing skills by 2030 I think, was the cut off point,
Joan McGettigan:
and suddenly, this is the first year I saw a shift. And what was
Joan McGettigan:
number one was AI and big data. And I was kind of shocked, and I
Joan McGettigan:
was like, Where the heck did analytical thinking go? And I'm
Joan McGettigan:
looking at it, and I think it moved down to number nine. So
Joan McGettigan:
this influence of AI has this shift not just here, but around
Joan McGettigan:
the world. And as you all have experienced, and as ATLIS has
Joan McGettigan:
talked about quite a bit in the past year, is cybersecurity. So
Joan McGettigan:
you have these two things that have popped up to the top of the
Joan McGettigan:
charts, if you will, this really interesting change.
Bill Stites:
So John, you touched on so much. And one of
Bill Stites:
the things that really resonated, at least with both
Bill Stites:
Hiram and I, had to do with the paring back and looking at what
Bill Stites:
you're using and those different tools, and really coming back to
Bill Stites:
that, and it's a topic that we've discussed both on the
Bill Stites:
podcast and in general, and I have a question that relates to
Bill Stites:
that you mentioned the type of school that you are and the
Bill Stites:
student population that you serve, and again, the specific
Bill Stites:
issues that you are working to address within that population,
Bill Stites:
when It comes to those tools and when it comes to the choice of
Bill Stites:
those tools. Recently, ATLIS hosted a webinar that Chand or
Bill Stites:
Simon ran, and he was talking about using this dei lens for
Bill Stites:
evaluating the tools, looking at the from a very broad spectrum
Bill Stites:
in terms of looking at it with students that may be neuro
Bill Stites:
divergent, students that have different types of learning
Bill Stites:
issues, as well as a number of other different topics. When you
Bill Stites:
start looking at those tools, when you start trying to think
Bill Stites:
about the ways in which you're going to pick and choose those
Bill Stites:
things, how do you take the uniqueness of windward and apply
Bill Stites:
that to that vetting and evaluation process that you have
Bill Stites:
to go through, and what are you specifically looking at that
Bill Stites:
might be different than what a boarding or a K 12 college prep
Bill Stites:
standard curricular type school be looking at?
Joan McGettigan:
Well, it's interesting. So let me begin and
Joan McGettigan:
AI world, we have a few different tools that we're
Joan McGettigan:
piloting this year, before we think about what are things that
Joan McGettigan:
we want to put in play to actively support students, one
Joan McGettigan:
of those tools is school AI, the ability of our teachers to build
Joan McGettigan:
a custom chat bot to support our students is everything. Because,
Joan McGettigan:
as you may imagine, I. We rely heavily on direct instruction
Joan McGettigan:
and scaffolding, and so if we can build something within using
Joan McGettigan:
that tool in particular, it's really helpful for students to
Joan McGettigan:
kind of get just the support that they need and be able to
Joan McGettigan:
make those connections that help deep in their learning without
Joan McGettigan:
some of the other AI tools that are out there that are maybe too
Joan McGettigan:
helpful or misdirect students. You know, we set the agenda.
Joan McGettigan:
When you're building that custom chat bot as a teacher, you're
Joan McGettigan:
setting the parameters of exactly what guidance you want.
Joan McGettigan:
So we're looking at, how can this really help our students?
Joan McGettigan:
And we've done a little bit experimentation just to see how
Joan McGettigan:
that fits. For example, we did this with students writing
Joan McGettigan:
poetry which is not something that they would normally do in
Joan McGettigan:
our program, so additional scaffolding was helpful, and
Joan McGettigan:
then they were able to take that poetry, which is really song
Joan McGettigan:
lyrics, and then pop that into suno and have a song. And it was
Joan McGettigan:
a really engaging couple of lessons. And students were using
Joan McGettigan:
their analytical thinking, but they were also using a lot of
Joan McGettigan:
creative thinking, and it was kind of a powerful experience
Joan McGettigan:
that and then another tool that we were looking at, because
Joan McGettigan:
we're interested in, how can this be helpful? For example, in
Joan McGettigan:
math, and I don't know if you all are familiar with snorkel,
Joan McGettigan:
snorkel also allows you to provide those parameters. So
Joan McGettigan:
it's an AI tool that was originally built by former math
Joan McGettigan:
teachers, but you can apply it in other curricular areas as
Joan McGettigan:
well. So as the students are writing their work, you know,
Joan McGettigan:
and solving these mathematical problems, snorkel is looking at
Joan McGettigan:
it, and you the teacher, have set the parameters of where it
Joan McGettigan:
can step in and provide guidance. So you just finished
Joan McGettigan:
your problem, Hiram, and you submitted it, and stork Cole
Joan McGettigan:
came back and said, Hey, Hiram, great job. You got a lot of that
Joan McGettigan:
algorithm correct. But could you take a look at step three for
Joan McGettigan:
me? Remember, you want to blah, blah, blah. And so you would go
Joan McGettigan:
back in and you would take a look at it. And maybe you're
Joan McGettigan:
saying, Yes, I got that wrong and I'll fix that. Or you might
Joan McGettigan:
say, I don't understand. Can you help me? And snorkel comes back
Joan McGettigan:
and says, Oh, for example, you can do this, this and this. So
Joan McGettigan:
it's not giving you the answer, but it's giving you that
Joan McGettigan:
necessary scaffold to help you make the connection and fix any
Joan McGettigan:
errors you might have in either your understanding or in your
Joan McGettigan:
calculation. That's just an AI experience. Additionally, I
Joan McGettigan:
think the Microsoft Learning accelerators have been another
Joan McGettigan:
interesting piece that we've looked at. So reading progress,
Joan McGettigan:
we haven't tried the math progress yet, but reading
Joan McGettigan:
progress, if listeners are not familiar with it, and it's free,
Joan McGettigan:
available to everyone, you don't have to be a Microsoft school,
Joan McGettigan:
is that students have, in our case, it could be a word list,
Joan McGettigan:
but it could also be a reading passage. And students are
Joan McGettigan:
recording their reading. They can do it with video, but it can
Joan McGettigan:
just be audio as well. You the teacher, again, are setting the
Joan McGettigan:
parameters for all the things that you would like to know. So
Joan McGettigan:
just like in running reports, right, you are looking for
Joan McGettigan:
omissions, mis pronunciations, repetitions, where students
Joan McGettigan:
might stumble over a multi syllable word. So you're looking
Joan McGettigan:
at all of those different pieces, and it provides feedback
Joan McGettigan:
to the student that's positive, that's encouraging. And you all
Joan McGettigan:
know how difficult it is to get students to go back and do
Joan McGettigan:
anything a second or third time. No one likes how they sound,
Joan McGettigan:
right? And so students will play the recording. They're like, Oh
Joan McGettigan:
no, no, I I can do better than that, and I'll go back again and
Joan McGettigan:
again. And what's happening is it's helping in their reading
Joan McGettigan:
comprehension and also in how they're speaking and how they're
Joan McGettigan:
presenting. They have another learning accelerator that works
Joan McGettigan:
on just presenting that gives them live feedback as they're
Joan McGettigan:
going through their PowerPoint slide deck. It will say, for
Joan McGettigan:
example, would say to me, I gesture too much. It talks about
Joan McGettigan:
eye contact and pace of speech. So it's giving really rich,
Joan McGettigan:
robust feedback in a way that's helpful to kids. Search coach,
Joan McGettigan:
reading progress, presenter coach, you know, all of these
Joan McGettigan:
different learning accelerators, I think can be game changers and
Joan McGettigan:
in real time and in real time. Yeah, it's impressive. Joan, I
Joan McGettigan:
love everything you're doing. I. Say
Hiram Cuevas:
this is an interesting time, because
Hiram Cuevas:
windward is, to an extent, redefining assistive technology.
Hiram Cuevas:
Bill and I, a few years ago, did an audit for the landmark School
Hiram Cuevas:
up in Massachusetts, which is a very similar school to windward,
Hiram Cuevas:
and we learned a great deal about the needs of their
Hiram Cuevas:
technology program, just by the very nature of their mission,
Hiram Cuevas:
and how proud they were when actually students left because
Hiram Cuevas:
they were successful right in their program, to actually
Hiram Cuevas:
become mainstreamed into their local schools, whether it was
Hiram Cuevas:
local to Massachusetts or because they were a boarding
Hiram Cuevas:
school to be able to go back home. And so I really have
Hiram Cuevas:
enjoyed hearing you discuss the use of these tools, but in a way
Hiram Cuevas:
that's not even labeling it as assistive but as a way to
Hiram Cuevas:
accelerate learning in general.
Joan McGettigan:
Thank you. Hiram, I think these tools can
Joan McGettigan:
be a great choice for any school, and look at how much we
Joan McGettigan:
try and help students discern what is good and verifiable
Joan McGettigan:
information against what is not. And if you're not using
Joan McGettigan:
databases and you're just using search tools. What is the best
Joan McGettigan:
way to search? How can I use different limiters to help me
Joan McGettigan:
find the best information? And so I look at that search coach
Joan McGettigan:
tool, and it's great. It talks about things that maybe not
Joan McGettigan:
every classroom teacher does. You know? What does it mean if a
Joan McGettigan:
website ends in.gov where can I find good statistics? What are
Joan McGettigan:
ways that I can set terms that really help me? And because it's
Joan McGettigan:
adaptable to each student, you know, if you're having a
Joan McGettigan:
particular struggle, it works with you. It's not just spitting
Joan McGettigan:
out stuff in general, same for any of these things. So we, I
Joan McGettigan:
think I'd look to those kinds of tools. To your point that it's
Joan McGettigan:
kind of assistive technology, but it's something that can
Joan McGettigan:
elevate the learning for all students.
Christina Lewellen:
So Joan, staying in that realm of
Christina Lewellen:
assistive technology, and I think you're right. I do think
Christina Lewellen:
that it helps all students. I love some of the examples that
Christina Lewellen:
you've given, but specifically for a school like yours, does
Christina Lewellen:
win word have kind of like a big picture philosophy with some of
Christina Lewellen:
these assistive technology tools. And I'm just curious how
Christina Lewellen:
schools who maybe don't have learning differences as a
Christina Lewellen:
primary population. Can take advice from you in terms of how
Christina Lewellen:
to evaluate these tools, because, again, like Bill said,
Christina Lewellen:
I think that plenty of our schools are looking at AI tools
Christina Lewellen:
to be that resource and provide that immediate feedback for
Christina Lewellen:
their students in various capacities. But do you have kind
Christina Lewellen:
of a philosophy or policies or ways that you go about
Christina Lewellen:
evaluating these specifically to a student's strengths and
Christina Lewellen:
weaknesses. The
Joan McGettigan:
program here relies heavily on direct
Joan McGettigan:
instruction, so if you walked into different classrooms, you
Joan McGettigan:
would see students like really trying to make sense of text
Joan McGettigan:
that they're reading. They're using different kinds of symbols
Joan McGettigan:
to really reinforce that learning when they're doing
Joan McGettigan:
notes, this is very scaffolded learning. So it really starts
Joan McGettigan:
with writing by hand all of this information, and then being able
Joan McGettigan:
to transfer it into different kinds of frameworks. So if we
Joan McGettigan:
have an assistive technology philosophy, it's really looking
Joan McGettigan:
at what makes sense in integrating technology in a way
Joan McGettigan:
that is really purposeful, extremely focused, and is going
Joan McGettigan:
to support the program. So it's not going to give the answers,
Joan McGettigan:
but it's going to provide a scaffold, so that's really what
Joan McGettigan:
we look for. There's lots of AI tools out there, even Grammarly,
Joan McGettigan:
that will help correct a student's writing as they're
Joan McGettigan:
going along. But normally, by the time students are typing an
Joan McGettigan:
essay, for example, they already have kind of worked through all
Joan McGettigan:
of those things that you would depend on, Grammarly, etc, to
Joan McGettigan:
fix that's kind of the difference that you might see
Joan McGettigan:
between windward and sort of a more standard academic program
Joan McGettigan:
where students might be actually composing on a computer. We're
Joan McGettigan:
composing by hand
Christina Lewellen:
first. And I think that's really awesome,
Christina Lewellen:
that you delineate those steps. And I also think it makes a lot
Christina Lewellen:
of sense, because I've often said that while some of those
Christina Lewellen:
fundamental skills are necessary, and in your case, the
Christina Lewellen:
research shows right with the handwriting. We've even had a
Christina Lewellen:
neuro scientist on this podcast to talk about that kind of
Christina Lewellen:
thing. But what I. Often point out to heads and Business
Christina Lewellen:
Officers is that in the workplace, I don't care if the
Christina Lewellen:
team is using Grammarly, you know, I don't care if they're
Christina Lewellen:
using an AI tool to coach their public speaking skills. So if
Christina Lewellen:
that's the case, I ask provocatively, does it matter if
Christina Lewellen:
we teach grammar anymore, sort of like once the graphing
Christina Lewellen:
calculator came out. Was it important for us to know how to
Christina Lewellen:
do that by hand, or could we just turn to this tool that was
Christina Lewellen:
available to us? So I think that we're at one of those points of
Christina Lewellen:
capitulation in education, and you guys are approaching this
Christina Lewellen:
from necessity and in alignment with your mission for your
Christina Lewellen:
students, but I think it really brings some interesting food for
Christina Lewellen:
thought for schools who are in the general independent school
Christina Lewellen:
space and maybe don't have those special considerations to think
Christina Lewellen:
about, right? So Bill and Hiram, you guys aren't dealing with a
Christina Lewellen:
population of learning differences specifically, but
Christina Lewellen:
I'm sure that what she's saying makes a lot of sense to how you
Christina Lewellen:
guys are going about this too.
Bill Stites:
Yeah, one of the things that's come up a couple
Bill Stites:
times in this conversation, and it's something that we've been
Bill Stites:
thinking about and talking about and kind of trying to get more
Bill Stites:
information on Jen, is when you were talking about the amount of
Bill Stites:
handwriting that a student is doing and starting at that
Bill Stites:
point. And one of the things that we've been interested being
Bill Stites:
that we've been a one to one school for as long as we have,
Bill Stites:
being that the device that we've been providing this entire time
Bill Stites:
has been generally a MacBook Air or the some derivative thereof,
Bill Stites:
over the course of these years. And one of the things that we're
Bill Stites:
wondering is when it comes to writing, when it comes to note
Bill Stites:
taking, when it comes to people can't see, but everyone on the
Bill Stites:
call can. I'm holding up my Apple pencil. I have my iPad
Bill Stites:
here in terms of what it means to transition from pen and
Bill Stites:
paper, pencil and paper, into a digital note taking piece,
Bill Stites:
whether that is for actual note taking, whether that is for
Bill Stites:
annotation, what's that for? And that transition in terms of in
Bill Stites:
the connections that are made in the brain when you do that, and
Bill Stites:
what steps should we be taking as a school to think about that?
Bill Stites:
Because the device that we provide does not offer that type
Bill Stites:
of tactile interface, whether there is, and this is the
Bill Stites:
primary question that we're even trying to get to is, is there a
Bill Stites:
difference between pen and paper, or Apple Pencil and
Bill Stites:
digital tablet? Because again, the idea that you can get, like
Bill Stites:
that PDF from a teacher, those electronic pieces, and you can
Bill Stites:
annotate on top of those, you can note, take on top of those,
Bill Stites:
or you can write on top of those. And the way it's been
Bill Stites:
described to me is that if you're using a keyboard, you're
Bill Stites:
generally just processing really quick. You know, it's the idea
Bill Stites:
of note taking for speed, but once you put that stylus in your
Bill Stites:
hand, you're actually synthesizing all of that and
Bill Stites:
therefore making stronger connections between the learning
Bill Stites:
and actually what you're doing. But again, the difference
Bill Stites:
between pen and paper and this and that, what are you seeing in
Bill Stites:
those areas?
Joan McGettigan:
It's a really interesting point bill, because
Joan McGettigan:
I also have a big fan of iPads. I've got my Apple pencil and I
Joan McGettigan:
will just write away. And I never thought about it that much
Joan McGettigan:
before coming to windward, I would do sketch noting, and I'm
Joan McGettigan:
sure that if someone was looking at a scan in my brain, they
Joan McGettigan:
would see lots of different areas lit up. Because you're
Joan McGettigan:
right, you're synthesizing all that information. So it's
Joan McGettigan:
interesting, when you look at all the research, is something
Joan McGettigan:
to be said for the handwriting, but it's also having that
Joan McGettigan:
greater physical interaction. So we're, I think, changing devices
Joan McGettigan:
next year, and looking at writable Chromebooks. But in
Joan McGettigan:
that case for us, we're adding that film on top for iPads. It's
Joan McGettigan:
like paper like so there's a variety of them out there,
Joan McGettigan:
because it adds the necessary resistance for if you're doing
Joan McGettigan:
digital notes that you're better inscribing on your brain the
Joan McGettigan:
information coming in and those films range in cost anywhere
Joan McGettigan:
from 11 bucks up to really high quality ones. I think at 35 or
Joan McGettigan:
40 it's something about having that same resistance that you
Joan McGettigan:
would have on paper that helps better inscribe. This is why
Joan McGettigan:
people will even pay more money for those you know, those
Joan McGettigan:
tablets that are like the stone tablets that have even higher
Joan McGettigan:
quality paper, it just adds that necessary resistance where your
Joan McGettigan:
brain is actually taking in all of the information and
Joan McGettigan:
transcribing it in your brain. It's fascinating. We
Hiram Cuevas:
have found with our students, they often go to
Hiram Cuevas:
college, and they have, I would call a little bit more of a head
Hiram Cuevas:
start, because we do a lot of handwriting in our English and
Hiram Cuevas:
history classes, they are allowed to compose. Is an award
Hiram Cuevas:
process or and we're convinced they're totally different
Hiram Cuevas:
skills, yes. And in addition to that, what we have also found is
Hiram Cuevas:
that the majority of students that our alums encounter at
Hiram Cuevas:
higher ed don't have the endurance to handwrite anymore,
Hiram Cuevas:
and as a result, they can't keep up if they're trying to do note
Hiram Cuevas:
taking in the standard format. I love the fact that you're
Hiram Cuevas:
actually creating multiple modalities of learning for your
Hiram Cuevas:
students to equip them with a variety of information and
Hiram Cuevas:
skills that they're going to need as they get older.
Joan McGettigan:
It's such a great point. And if I can relate
Joan McGettigan:
this back to something that we started at North borough prep.
Joan McGettigan:
We started off the one to one program in pre K. We started
Joan McGettigan:
like the reverse. You know, most people start like 12th grade and
Joan McGettigan:
work their way downward. We actually started with the
Joan McGettigan:
earliest learners moved up, so by the time it hit that six
Joan McGettigan:
through 12th grade mark to use your point, we started venturing
Joan McGettigan:
into digital note taking with things like good notes and
Joan McGettigan:
Notability. But what was a really interesting development
Joan McGettigan:
to me was looking at the research of Mary Ann Wolfe, who
Joan McGettigan:
has been at Windward, I think at Windward Institute, she's
Joan McGettigan:
presented two or three times on this idea of digital reading. So
Joan McGettigan:
note taking I'm with you, is handwriting and building up that
Joan McGettigan:
resistance. We have handwriting class. We have handwriting club
Joan McGettigan:
for those kids who join us later and maybe haven't had that
Joan McGettigan:
experience. So yeah, we work with them in getting that muscle
Joan McGettigan:
memory developed. But on the flip side, going from writing to
Joan McGettigan:
reading, you know, they're going to be placing into schools that
Joan McGettigan:
are heavily digital. And at North Broward, at that point, we
Joan McGettigan:
had become 93% digital textbooks, everything,
Joan McGettigan:
everything was digital. So at the high school level, they had
Joan McGettigan:
back airs and iPads. One was the work device, and one was kind of
Joan McGettigan:
like your backpack with all of your different books in it,
Joan McGettigan:
right? And it started off in the English department. They said,
Joan McGettigan:
Hey, every single app that we use, whether it's Kindle or
Joan McGettigan:
Apple iBooks, we also have IB curriculum there. These IB
Joan McGettigan:
textbooks, they all have at least five different colors that
Joan McGettigan:
you can use to annotate digitally. So we're going to
Joan McGettigan:
make that purposeful. Each color was assigned a particular thing
Joan McGettigan:
we did that consistently grades six through 12 in English,
Joan McGettigan:
right? So every year those kids were coming in and yellow means
Joan McGettigan:
this, green means this, blue means this. The other
Joan McGettigan:
departments were like, Hey, we can make that work. And I said,
Joan McGettigan:
you have to make it related. Though you can't make the yellow
Joan McGettigan:
like dramatically different, because the whole point of this
Joan McGettigan:
is to make that visual memory of what yellow means. So social
Joan McGettigan:
studies, science, they all started to align to what the
Joan McGettigan:
English department had done. And so when kids left us and went
Joan McGettigan:
into college, where so much of their stuff was digital reading,
Joan McGettigan:
they understood not only how to annotate and do the sticky notes
Joan McGettigan:
and really understand that process, but they understood the
Joan McGettigan:
reason why we were doing it is because Mary Ann Wolfe will tell
Joan McGettigan:
you, digital reading is different as adults, we scan, we
Joan McGettigan:
scan constantly. We're not taking in all the information.
Joan McGettigan:
We're not making those connections. It's like when you
Joan McGettigan:
start on driving on the Jersey turn bike, and suddenly two
Joan McGettigan:
hours go by and you're like, wow, I don't remember driving
Joan McGettigan:
down any of this, right? And so Mary and Walt is saying you have
Joan McGettigan:
to put obstacles in the way of students, and this idea of
Joan McGettigan:
digital annotation is one of them. So if you can slow them
Joan McGettigan:
down by using a purpose for all these different colors,
Joan McGettigan:
highlight colors, right? If you can say one of my requirements
Joan McGettigan:
is putting in these sticky notes for doing a summary. So, oh, on
Joan McGettigan:
each page, I want a two sentence sticky notes, summary of what
Joan McGettigan:
you just read, because I want to slow you down. I want you to
Joan McGettigan:
connect and really have a deeper understanding of what you're
Joan McGettigan:
reading. I'm not sure how any of that will apply to win word,
Joan McGettigan:
because obviously for us, reading is crucial, so going
Joan McGettigan:
through direct instruction and all of this, but I can see where
Joan McGettigan:
maybe in eighth grade before students naturally are out
Joan McGettigan:
placing to high school, that might be an area to explore.
Christina Lewellen:
Yeah, that's super interesting. And one of
Christina Lewellen:
the things that we talked about with Richard cullata of ISTE
Christina Lewellen:
recently. Be he was on the pod, and he talked to us about this
Christina Lewellen:
great analogy of when you're talking about younger kids and
Christina Lewellen:
technology, we sometimes are measuring the wrong things. So
Christina Lewellen:
he says, you know, parents will put a limit on screen time. And
Christina Lewellen:
say, well, they only get an hour of screen time a day. Aren't I
Christina Lewellen:
doing a great job, and yet, if that one hour a day is engaging
Christina Lewellen:
in really not healthy corners of the interweb, then that can be
Christina Lewellen:
problematic. Just like if you were to say that a child could
Christina Lewellen:
eat anything they wanted to eat for one hour per day, we're not
Christina Lewellen:
certain that they're getting their nutrients if time limit is
Christina Lewellen:
the only way that we're monitoring their engagement with
Christina Lewellen:
technology. This is something that I've noticed there are a
Christina Lewellen:
lot of questions around younger students and tech. So do you
Christina Lewellen:
have any thoughts or guidance? You know, I think a lot of
Christina Lewellen:
schools will at least kind of go down the path of scaffolding
Christina Lewellen:
toward their middle and upper schools, but when you're looking
Christina Lewellen:
at your lower school students, is there a way that you
Christina Lewellen:
personally think about technology and how we introduce
Christina Lewellen:
that in a healthy way to this generation of learners?
Joan McGettigan:
I'll go back again to North Bar Prep, where
Joan McGettigan:
we rolled out iPads with those pre K through grade five
Joan McGettigan:
students. First, it was incredibly interesting seeing
Joan McGettigan:
those teachers explore and figure out what makes sense
Joan McGettigan:
developmentally for this age group. So it really came back to
Joan McGettigan:
sort of that idea of trans literacy in being able to
Joan McGettigan:
capture learning a variety of ways. And so one of the things
Joan McGettigan:
that we did is we started on the road of digital portfolios, and
Joan McGettigan:
we actually gave ownership of that to students. The tool we
Joan McGettigan:
used was Book Creator, because it allowed them to bring
Joan McGettigan:
everything in the world. We were at Google App school so they
Joan McGettigan:
could embed things from Google Drive. They could record audio,
Joan McGettigan:
the video, photos. They started recording all of their different
Joan McGettigan:
learning. But one of the things that frustrated teachers, and
Joan McGettigan:
frustrated me as a former math teacher, is that trying to get
Joan McGettigan:
to what their mathematical thinking was in the moment. No
Joan McGettigan:
matter how quickly you turn an assessment back to a student, if
Joan McGettigan:
I say, Hey, Bill, I'm not quite understanding, like, why you
Joan McGettigan:
have this answer on number three, that quiz you took
Joan McGettigan:
yesterday, and Bill might say, I don't know that was yesterday. I
Joan McGettigan:
don't remember what I was thinking. So we started using an
Joan McGettigan:
app, which I know you guys know, explain everything. And so we
Joan McGettigan:
cave students like, Okay, you're in second grade. Here's your
Joan McGettigan:
math problem. You're going to draw a picture, and the whole
Joan McGettigan:
time that you're solving this, you're going to record and
Joan McGettigan:
articulate your thinking. And so again, I go back to how do you
Joan McGettigan:
get students to do anything more than once, students would listen
Joan McGettigan:
to the recording and hate it and do it again, we found like this,
Joan McGettigan:
really nice growth in their mathematical abilities, but also
Joan McGettigan:
something that is not normally mentioned or measured to Richard
Joan McGettigan:
coladas point is their articulation of their
Joan McGettigan:
mathematical thinking. It grew just from doing these monthly
Joan McGettigan:
assessments that would then go into their portfolio, so that
Joan McGettigan:
when it was shared with parents at the end of the year in
Joan McGettigan:
student led conference, parents could actually see the growth,
Joan McGettigan:
not just in their mathematical abilities, but in their child's
Joan McGettigan:
understanding and articulation of that mathematical knowledge.
Joan McGettigan:
And I think that's something incredibly interesting. So with
Joan McGettigan:
our younger learners, for example, I was just at a fifth
Joan McGettigan:
grade lesson talking about how they were going to present this
Joan McGettigan:
information, how they were going to make it their own. And it was
Joan McGettigan:
so interesting hearing those students, and I'm going to go
Joan McGettigan:
off on a little bit of a tangent here, but just to give you a win
Joan McGettigan:
word, kind of a win word adjacent like how a technology
Joan McGettigan:
lesson is a little bit different for us, these fifth graders had
Joan McGettigan:
just created an all about me poster in Word so that they
Joan McGettigan:
could understand how a document is formatted, how you bring
Joan McGettigan:
images in, how you format those images, all of that. So now
Joan McGettigan:
they're in a research project on the architect Maya Lin, the
Joan McGettigan:
teacher, took a screenshot of the word task bar and then a
Joan McGettigan:
screenshot of the PowerPoint task bar. And I don't know that
Joan McGettigan:
a lot of schools do this, but it was really interesting to me.
Joan McGettigan:
And she said, Okay, just like we do when we look at text, let's
Joan McGettigan:
break this down. How are these two similar? What does this do?
Joan McGettigan:
What does this do? And the kids were like, look, it's. The same,
Joan McGettigan:
you have this, and that's the same as this. And the purpose of
Joan McGettigan:
that is that. And they started making connections. And you
Joan McGettigan:
could see, like, the light bulbs going off all over the room,
Joan McGettigan:
because they were looking at, insert, oh, insert. Oh, that
Joan McGettigan:
means, like, you put something in. Oh, look, we did that and
Joan McGettigan:
worked with this. And, okay, here's PowerPoint, and we're
Joan McGettigan:
inserting and look, you can insert this and this and this,
Joan McGettigan:
like they started making all of those different connections. And
Joan McGettigan:
I just think that's an example of a more direct instruction
Joan McGettigan:
making that scuffle for them, but something that is incredibly
Joan McGettigan:
helpful. You know, those Microsoft Office pass bars can
Joan McGettigan:
be incredibly complicated for young learners. And so when I
Joan McGettigan:
think about those kinds of lessons and using technology
Joan McGettigan:
with them, I think, okay, how can we be helpful and
Joan McGettigan:
supportive? But going to your point, Kristina, about what does
Joan McGettigan:
it mean. Then, when they get home and screen time, you know,
Joan McGettigan:
every parent presentation I speak to that point, because,
Joan McGettigan:
again, it's not the quantity of screen time, it's the quality.
Joan McGettigan:
So if you have a child who's building a replica of
Joan McGettigan:
Williamsburg in Minecraft, you know, just because they just
Joan McGettigan:
learned about it, and they love Minecraft. That's an amazing use
Joan McGettigan:
of their time. And that might take three hours, but, gosh,
Joan McGettigan:
that's three hours of learning that's amazing, as opposed to
Joan McGettigan:
playing some kind of shoot 'em up game, which doesn't add any
Joan McGettigan:
depth of understanding or knowledge or skills. So
Bill Stites:
Joan, I was laughing when you said, explain
Bill Stites:
everything in terms of picking a tool. And the reason I was
Bill Stites:
laughing is because many, many moons ago, Reshan Richards, who
Bill Stites:
was the inventor, the founder of explain everything, is a friend
Bill Stites:
and a former colleague, and actually friend of the podcast
Bill Stites:
we've had him on. I want to kind of touch on that, because where
Bill Stites:
Sean and I worked together for a number of years, and we had a
Bill Stites:
very close working relationship. And again, it's kind of just
Bill Stites:
part and parcel of the program here at MKA. And you've
Bill Stites:
mentioned his name when we started out, kind of joking
Bill Stites:
around about our good friend Bernie McCormick, who is now
Bill Stites:
with you at Windward one of the things I'm very curious about is
Bill Stites:
if you could tell us about what your relationship with Bernie is
Bill Stites:
like, and how that relationship is really helping advance the
Bill Stites:
mission of what you're doing, given the nature of the school
Bill Stites:
that you have, but really at any school, that close working
Bill Stites:
relationship between the ed tech side of the house and the IT
Bill Stites:
side of the house is so important. Can you describe what
Bill Stites:
that's like for you there windward? Sure. Bernie
Joan McGettigan:
is our CTO and has a wealth of experience
Joan McGettigan:
before he came to windward, he was at a similar LD school in
Joan McGettigan:
Brooklyn, and just also personal experience with learning
Joan McGettigan:
disorders and dyslexia and how that relates to technology. So
Joan McGettigan:
he is a really deep understanding of the pedagogy
Joan McGettigan:
that's involved in that, and it's really interesting. I know
Joan McGettigan:
that you all have those really collaborative environments as
Joan McGettigan:
well, and sadly, a lot of schools do not. It's kind of
Joan McGettigan:
like a divorce, right between it and ET. And some schools don't
Joan McGettigan:
even have any kind of ET support. It's just it saying,
Joan McGettigan:
Well, this is what we can afford, so this is what we're
Joan McGettigan:
going to do, without having that kind of conversation of what is
Joan McGettigan:
the pedagogy? Why are we doing this? How is it going to serve
Joan McGettigan:
our students? How is it going to serve our teachers? Just to give
Joan McGettigan:
you an example of how Bernie and I work together, along with Lisa
Joan McGettigan:
Murray, who is our incredible Associate Head of School for
Joan McGettigan:
academics, we have these conversations about what is
Joan McGettigan:
going to best serve our students. How is the technology
Joan McGettigan:
going to work in a population of students who may struggle with
Joan McGettigan:
executive functioning. So what are ways that we can kind of
Joan McGettigan:
reduce some of like the multiple steps? So, for example, you have
Joan McGettigan:
using clever badges to log in when I first came to win word
Joan McGettigan:
students logged in and they had passwords that I think were like
Joan McGettigan:
27 characters. And I said, how can you use this with a
Joan McGettigan:
population of students who are dyslexic? That doesn't make any
Joan McGettigan:
sense, because at the time, there wasn't that kind of
Joan McGettigan:
conversation. This is before Bernie came. There wasn't a
Joan McGettigan:
conversation between the IT and et side, you know, it was
Joan McGettigan:
saying, No, we have to have that because of security and this and
Joan McGettigan:
that will know that does not serve the mission of the school,
Joan McGettigan:
does not serve our students. So Bernie changed that, and now
Joan McGettigan:
we're on board with clever and that's going to make that small
Joan McGettigan:
piece. Is so much easier for our students. What was anywhere from
Joan McGettigan:
a five to eight minute delay in getting any technology infused
Joan McGettigan:
lesson off the ground just because of the difficulty of
Joan McGettigan:
logging in. Suddenly, that barrier was removed, and that's
Joan McGettigan:
what the two sides should always be talking about. You know, I go
Joan McGettigan:
back to the Heath brothers, my favorite authors in the world.
Joan McGettigan:
And actually, Dan Heath is going to be at ISTE this summer. He
Joan McGettigan:
just came out with a new book called reset, which had just
Joan McGettigan:
started and is wonderful. But before that, they had a book
Joan McGettigan:
called Switch. And all of us deal with change. Change
Joan McGettigan:
management is something we talk about in technology all the
Joan McGettigan:
time. So in switch, they said there are three things, and
Joan McGettigan:
they're not the inventors of this. They just pulled the
Joan McGettigan:
information together in a way that makes it really relatable.
Joan McGettigan:
And they talk about, if you imagine bill sitting on top of
Joan McGettigan:
an elephant, Bill is the driver, so you have to direct the driver
Joan McGettigan:
or writer and give crystal clear actionable steps. And then the
Joan McGettigan:
elephant, you have to motivate. And the elephant is kind of like
Joan McGettigan:
our emotional side. You have to give the clear understanding.
Joan McGettigan:
You have to connect emotionally. And then, most importantly, you
Joan McGettigan:
have to shape the path, which means removing the barriers that
Joan McGettigan:
don't make any sense. So yes, we have to do all sorts of things
Joan McGettigan:
that drive people crazy, multi factor authentication, etc, that
Joan McGettigan:
serve the purpose of security at the school, but there's no
Joan McGettigan:
reason to have an extremely long password that makes it
Joan McGettigan:
impossible, especially for students who are dyslexic, to be
Joan McGettigan:
able to type that in and achieve success. So I think that's the
Joan McGettigan:
perfect marriage between the two sides. Looks at how can we
Joan McGettigan:
remove the barriers? What are the hardware and software that
Joan McGettigan:
best serves our community, and what are ways that we can
Joan McGettigan:
operationalize all of those things and make sound decisions
Joan McGettigan:
based on pedagogy that makes sense for our school. I
Christina Lewellen:
love that. Before we start wrapping up and
Christina Lewellen:
let you get about your day, I do have a question around the
Christina Lewellen:
reasons why you pursued the T lists. So you got T list
Christina Lewellen:
certified, and I love that, especially because of your ed
Christina Lewellen:
tech background. So what were some of the considerations for
Christina Lewellen:
you as you considered sitting for that exam and going through
Christina Lewellen:
all the prep for it?
Joan McGettigan:
It's a really excellent question. I think it
Joan McGettigan:
really stems back from when I was at North Broad prep, very,
Joan McGettigan:
very unusual. My position actually oversaw. It usually
Joan McGettigan:
don't have academics doing that.
Christina Lewellen:
Wow, yeah, that is super weird. Yeah, super
Christina Lewellen:
weird, right? Guys, have you ever heard of that? I don't
Christina Lewellen:
think I have ever heard of the IT piece reporting to the Ed
Christina Lewellen:
Tech piece.
Bill Stites:
I can only think of maybe one, but I couldn't name
Bill Stites:
it, if you asked me.
Joan McGettigan:
But you can understand Kristina, right, that
Joan McGettigan:
I came into that position. And granted, I did have sort of
Joan McGettigan:
unusual background, that back in New Orleans, when we were
Joan McGettigan:
putting a huge addition on to Trinity Episcopal I was up in
Joan McGettigan:
the ceiling running wires. Okay, so maybe not all et people have
Joan McGettigan:
run ethernet cables through their ceilings, but I felt like
Joan McGettigan:
I did not have a solid understanding of everything on
Joan McGettigan:
the IT side, and I felt like that kind of hampered my
Joan McGettigan:
ability. So this was before Bernie came on board, and I was
Joan McGettigan:
walking into this situation of those really long passwords and
Joan McGettigan:
and the infrastructure desperately needed upgrading all
Joan McGettigan:
of these things. And windward is very aware of this, and they
Joan McGettigan:
wanted to be proactive and make all these changes. I felt for my
Joan McGettigan:
knowledge base, while I might understand the ET side pretty
Joan McGettigan:
well. If I could understand all of these other components as
Joan McGettigan:
well, it would help my working relationship in partnership with
Joan McGettigan:
the IT side. And I think that T list certification really does
Joan McGettigan:
help with that, because it makes you think of operational things.
Joan McGettigan:
It makes you think of policy things. It brings all of these
Joan McGettigan:
different aspects in and going through and listening to your
Joan McGettigan:
past podcasts, the webinars, all of those different resources was
Joan McGettigan:
really helpful. So for example, because of the program, I
Joan McGettigan:
created a tech advisory council here, and we split up into three
Joan McGettigan:
different parts because we have a lot to accomplish, but one of
Joan McGettigan:
those was bringing all of these different policies that we had
Joan McGettigan:
out there, digital code of conduct, etc. Acceptable use
Joan McGettigan:
policy and assistive technology policy, all these different
Joan McGettigan:
pieces into one cohesive document that would also have an
Joan McGettigan:
AI policy component and that T list certification clarified by
Joan McGettigan:
thinking and helped me understand how to create a
Joan McGettigan:
structure that would help make that happen.
Christina Lewellen:
Thank you for sharing that. I love that
Christina Lewellen:
that was the reasons behind why you pursued it, and in a weird
Christina Lewellen:
way, I think that your answer is the first I've heard where
Christina Lewellen:
there's a piece of the students in that answer, right? Like you
Christina Lewellen:
mentioned the passwords being too difficult. Basically, you're
Christina Lewellen:
like, Yeah, I got the T list because my students deserve this
Christina Lewellen:
experience with somebody at the helm who knows how to address
Christina Lewellen:
really long passwords, for example. So I love that this has
Christina Lewellen:
been such a pleasure. I'm so grateful to you for coming in
Christina Lewellen:
and bringing your perspective to our community. I'm so glad that
Christina Lewellen:
you have those letters after your name, you're such a stellar
Christina Lewellen:
representation of everything that we were trying to
Christina Lewellen:
accomplish with the T list program. So thank you so much
Christina Lewellen:
for joining us today. It's been really incredible. It's
Joan McGettigan:
been my pleasure to have a conversation
Joan McGettigan:
with this brain trust. So thank you. I've been long time fans,
Joan McGettigan:
particularly of Hiram and Bill, and followed all of the
Joan McGettigan:
different advice. So you don't know the impact that you have on
Joan McGettigan:
people, right? But I want to let the two of you know from going
Joan McGettigan:
to the ISTE conference before it was ISTE when it was ne CC, I
Joan McGettigan:
think love it. They've had a big positive impact on my career.
Joan McGettigan:
We're a tight
Christina Lewellen:
community. Look at you guys, our fan. Thank
Christina Lewellen:
you our first and number one fan.
Joan McGettigan:
You have many fans. Kristina Alice serves many
Joan McGettigan:
purposes, and it does it in a way that's exemplary. So I thank
Joan McGettigan:
you,
Christina Lewellen:
Dr Magette again, thank you so much once
Christina Lewellen:
again for your time. My pleasure.
Peter Frank:
This has been talking technology with Atlas,
Peter Frank:
produced by the Association of Technology Leaders in
Peter Frank:
Independent Schools. For more information about Atlas and
Peter Frank:
Atlas membership, please visit the atlas.org if you enjoyed
Peter Frank:
this discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and
Peter Frank:
share this podcast with your colleagues in the independent
Peter Frank:
school community. Thank you for listening. You.
